man it amazes me, some of the guys here are sooo stubborn. get it through your head... a full 8man euro party (that knows how to play) will almost never die by chinese players. no matter how hard they try.
ive been on both sides of it. a fully farmed capped chinese player just getting pounded by an 8man euro pt. its just like no chance of winning. mabye 1vs1 but 8vs8 its not even a challenge
<<banned from srf for being a sexy chocolate ~ SG>>
Toshiharu wrote:The best fighting party every shall be pure str clerics. Why..? All having overheal can do 80k(if same time) no matter. winnar.
I shall quote myself. This party can kill anything instantaneously, excluding reverse(This would take some time). Of course with working with each other at the same time.
If being a loser means not playing Silkroad all day.. lulwut?
for all those non-believers let me just tell you something.... This pt is OBVIOUSLY not for PvE, because PvE is boring as fück...
This is the Best pt to rape anyone... 1 2H with a crit on daredevil will most surely kill any int and some str characters.
Those who say that if one warrior dies the whole pt falls apart... shut up, you've have no true playing experience besides grinding.
The point is that the 2handers have unlimited amount of bless and screens to NEVER die in the first place, if miraculously one of the warriors die, another warrior can switch to a cleric rod and do Reverse Immolation AND GUESS WHAT! The New Reverse Immolation warrior has around 60k+ hp with 75% absorption on phys and magical attacks and he can do warrior fences on his buddies and there they go tanking and raping.
Toshiharu wrote:The best fighting party every shall be pure str clerics. Why..? All having overheal can do 80k(if same time) no matter. winnar.
I shall quote myself. This party can kill anything instantaneously, excluding reverse(This would take some time). Of course with working with each other at the same time.
The only downside is the lack of aoe attacks. Im not sure but maybe 4 or 5 wizards all using The earth nuke could kill off a couple of characters at once? Im not too sure of how much damage it would deal. The problem with killing one at a time is by the time you can kill one character and try to kill the next, chances are the dead character will be ressed already ( as they can use mass kb + stuns etc to stop you from attacking and give them time )
Also without a bard you will get off a couple of absolute damage moves than be struggling for mp, thus why a pure str bard needs to be added in there. Damage absorption + mana healing + the ability to deal quick Absolute damage, works wonders.
for all those non-believers let me just tell you something.... This pt is OBVIOUSLY not for PvE, because PvE is boring as fück...
This is the Best pt to rape anyone... 1 2H with a crit on daredevil will most surely kill any int and some str characters.
Those who say that if one warrior dies the whole pt falls apart... shut up, you've have no true playing experience besides grinding.
The point is that the 2handers have unlimited amount of bless and screens to NEVER die in the first place, if miraculously one of the warriors die, another warrior can switch to a cleric rod and do Reverse Immolation AND GUESS WHAT! The New Reverse Immolation warrior has around 60k+ hp with 75% absorption on phys and magical attacks and he can do warrior fences on his buddies and there they go tanking and raping.
One warrior dies and the whole party falls, that and this type of party requires an absurd amount of cooperation.
Read this (TL;DR): THE PARTY FAILS against a party consisting of 2 warriors, 1 bard, 2 wizards, 1 warlock, and 1 cleric
Switch to rod: Skins drop Fences drop Vitals drop Quotas drop Screens drop
Bard+Warrior+Cleric+Wizard+Warlock gives more than enough defense (and overkills on offense).
At Best you would lose in a war of attrition, same goes for mixed parties. They come close but they're still not better.
If you're talking about intelligent players, in the end the Euro PvP party would out fight both the mixed and str cleric party.
AkillerNXC wrote:Only ones who are arguing with necro are plvl'd nubs. Your just plain retarded if you think a chinese is ANY good with euro's, they're not. Only thing they're good for is hammering away in FW because they can't do any damage at all compared to buffed euro's.
And Ragnorak, thats not true. Thats just it, a fully buffed up party CAN NOT BE KILLED BY CHINESE. NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY. You simply can not do enough damage. You take one out, the entire party doesn't die. You lose a few buffs, but then you've got about 3 seconds to kill the other 7 people before the cleric (or warrior or whoever died) is alive again.
Well the problem is that the God Fly and the Godess Nightbloom posted an "ideal" party build.
Where on earth did you ever get the idea that its "Fly and nightbloom's party". Your dumb. Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb. Please think before posting, its a good habit to obtain.
Ok 1st of I want to make sure u all know i'm not talking about euro grind pt,,,thats what they are good for party grind.
2nd why is it that you all seem to think i'm talking about euro vs Chinese ok, fine a chinese won't kill a the whole euro pt, then let a warrior do it or a wizard do it and chinese spam spam emperor, sss and a bower spam kb. with no pot delay a Chinese buff with euro/bless/skins/cleric constant healing, chinese spamming HP pots+vigors will last longer then just and ALL euro pt with there pot delay.
Kay, I'd take a warriors KB over a bow ANY DAY. I'd take a warlocks stun over a crappy glaviers stun ANY DAY. Get it, there's nothing a chinese can do that a euro can't do better. No half decent euro party wants a chinese in because a chinese can't support the other party members. So yeah, maybe the chinese won't die, but everyone else will because that dumb glavie or bow is taking the place of a warrior/wiz/bard. Who can all give buffs to the party that will make the entire party stronger then that glavier or bower.
AkillerNXC wrote:Only ones who are arguing with necro are plvl'd nubs. Your just plain retarded if you think a chinese is ANY good with euro's, they're not. Only thing they're good for is hammering away in FW because they can't do any damage at all compared to buffed euro's.
And Ragnorak, thats not true. Thats just it, a fully buffed up party CAN NOT BE KILLED BY CHINESE. NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY. You simply can not do enough damage. You take one out, the entire party doesn't die. You lose a few buffs, but then you've got about 3 seconds to kill the other 7 people before the cleric (or warrior or whoever died) is alive again.
Well the problem is that the God Fly and the Godess Nightbloom posted an "ideal" party build.
Where on earth did you ever get the idea that its "Fly and nightbloom's party". Your dumb. Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb. Please think before posting, its a good habit to obtain.
Ok 1st of I want to make sure u all know i'm not talking about euro grind pt,,,thats what they are good for party grind.
2nd why is it that you all seem to think i'm talking about euro vs Chinese ok, fine a chinese won't kill a the whole euro pt, then let a warrior do it or a wizard do it and chinese spam spam emperor, sss and a bower spam kb. with no pot delay a Chinese buff with euro/bless/skins/cleric constant healing, chinese spamming HP pots+vigors will last longer then just and ALL euro pt with there pot delay.
I know you're not talking about grind parties, but guess what, Euros can PvP exactly as they grind. OH NOES. And pots have nohing to do with it, and you know it. Why the hell would you need pots in a full Euro party? Cleric watches your health, bards watch your mana? Pot delay? OH NOES
Toshiharu wrote:The best fighting party every shall be pure str clerics. Why..? All having overheal can do 80k(if same time) no matter. winnar.
I shall quote myself. This party can kill anything instantaneously, excluding reverse(This would take some time). Of course with working with each other at the same time.
The only downside is the lack of aoe attacks. Im not sure but maybe 4 or 5 wizards all using The earth nuke could kill off a couple of characters at once? Im not too sure of how much damage it would deal. The problem with killing one at a time is by the time you can kill one character and try to kill the next, chances are the dead character will be ressed already ( as they can use mass kb + stuns etc to stop you from attacking and give them time )
Also without a bard you will get off a couple of absolute damage moves than be struggling for mp, thus why a pure str bard needs to be added in there. Damage absorption + mana healing + the ability to deal quick Absolute damage, works wonders.
You don't need aoe if you can drop them in a hit(2~4 people over healing the same person). Move onto the next. Instantly... I'm not entirely sure about mana, but vigors can solve it or mp grains.
About the wizards.. yes that is a deadly party, but they drop easily. Pure str clerics in light armor would hardly die.. and if one of the clerics is casting healing orbit it's impossible to kill unless you got the same party against you.
If being a loser means not playing Silkroad all day.. lulwut?
Toshiharu wrote: I shall quote myself. This party can kill anything instantaneously, excluding reverse(This would take some time). Of course with working with each other at the same time.
The only downside is the lack of aoe attacks. Im not sure but maybe 4 or 5 wizards all using The earth nuke could kill off a couple of characters at once? Im not too sure of how much damage it would deal. The problem with killing one at a time is by the time you can kill one character and try to kill the next, chances are the dead character will be ressed already ( as they can use mass kb + stuns etc to stop you from attacking and give them time )
Also without a bard you will get off a couple of absolute damage moves than be struggling for mp, thus why a pure str bard needs to be added in there. Damage absorption + mana healing + the ability to deal quick Absolute damage, works wonders.
You don't need aoe if you can drop them in a hit(2~4 people over healing the same person). Move onto the next. Instantly... I'm not entirely sure about mana, but vigors can solve it or mp grains.
About the wizards.. yes that is a deadly party, but they drop easily. Pure str clerics in light armor would hardly die.. and if one of the clerics is casting healing orbit it's impossible to kill unless you got the same party against you.
Charged wind/Lighting squall KB before you cast Overhealing. AoE+ guaranteed KB (I Think it was 5 people at once) from 2 Wizards. With the long cast time of absolutes, you won't kill anyone. In a war of Attrition the European party would win. How would two wizards know when to KB? Well, you usually learn when to use KB at sungs during European party grinding. A competent player will carry over what they learned while grinding and modify it to fit PvP.
no party is invincible, full str clerics with constant double bless are VERY hard to kill NO debuffs because each has holy spell Constant double bless (yes hard to coordinate but this is what seperates good from PRO) absolutes constantly Did i forget Light Armor Passives? nope. add more to the ridiculous defence.
now the rate of killing would be slow if encountering a full STR party like yourself, but ints take 2 absolutes gone? wziards with LC 1 hit. Chinese Glavies would take a while, and a few of you might get stunned, but that's ok.. Designate one person to have healing orbit/recovery division always up. lol.. can outdeal almost all damage done to the party (since you have constant doublebless)
sirs1ayer wrote:no party is invincible, full str clerics with constant double bless are VERY hard to kill NO debuffs because each has holy spell Constant double bless (yes hard to coordinate but this is what seperates good from PRO) absolutes constantly Did i forget Light Armor Passives? nope. add more to the ridiculous defence.
now the rate of killing would be slow if encountering a full STR party like yourself, but ints take 2 absolutes gone? wziards with LC 1 hit. Chinese Glavies would take a while, and a few of you might get stunned, but that's ok.. Designate one person to have healing orbit/recovery division always up. lol.. can outdeal almost all damage done to the party (since you have constant doublebless)
That's assuming the party you encounter is A]noob or B]not trying to prevent enemy attacks. What is it about interruption and cast time that people don't understand? It's like the cleric that has been trying to cast Pure Offering on a warlock for the past hour. The lock will just stun you&kb before you even finish the animation/start the skill. That and all those cleric skills require quite a bit of MP. Don't forget that their heals aren't as powerful as a pure's or Hybrid's. What you're really relying on here is the HP that a pure str brings.
you can't interupt 8.. or 7 saying 1 is doing healing, different abolutes.. the strategy would obviously be go for the int's first. Since they have double bless the first few nukes the other team gets on your wouldn't really do that much damage, it only takes a few absolutes to kill a wizard/cleric...
anyway, how would you suggest killing 8 pure str with double bless + heals (minor at that) + vigors?
yeah you can interrupt all day, but just seems like a stand off to me
Ok... if you switch to rod fences drop skins drop. May i remind you that there is also 7 other Warriors around? And that (talking from experience) most lvl 90 warriors know how to play and the fact that a wizard can 1 Skill a warrior (Which I HIGHLY DOUBT) there is always other warriors to come and slap the grand 8k hp it has (I say 8k because the only way a wizard can even have a chance of killing a lvl 90 warrior with good gear is with life turnover)
KneeGrow wrote:Ok... if you switch to rod fences drop skins drop. May i remind you that there is also 7 other Warriors around? And that (talking from experience) most lvl 90 warriors know how to play and the fact that a wizard can 1 Skill a warrior (Which I HIGHLY DOUBT) there is always other warriors to come and slap the grand 8k hp it has (I say 8k because the only way a wizard can even have a chance of killing a lvl 90 warrior with good gear is with life turnover)
watch your pathetic party die off by debuffs ,absolute dmg skills, and a few wizards
KneeGrow wrote:Ok... if you switch to rod fences drop skins drop. May i remind you that there is also 7 other Warriors around? And that (talking from experience) most lvl 90 warriors know how to play and the fact that a wizard can 1 Skill a warrior (Which I HIGHLY DOUBT) there is always other warriors to come and slap the grand 8k hp it has (I say 8k because the only way a wizard can even have a chance of killing a lvl 90 warrior with good gear is with life turnover)
Yeah, both sides would still be chilling until the str clerics ran out of MP potions, at which point the battle would be lost. The goal would be to stall them long enough to gain higher ground. Against a party like this, the str clerics would have the same idea in mind. They stall with defense, we stall with interruption! The problem is; you don't see the use of other builds. Bards increase our damage & defense, Locks, Clerics, and Bards have absolute dmg attacks. Who said the wizards don't have subclasses? What about hyb Clerics and Warlocks? I say my party trumps yours, you say your party trumps mine. A minor disagreement.
KneeGrow wrote:Ok... if you switch to rod fences drop skins drop. May i remind you that there is also 7 other Warriors around? And that (talking from experience) most lvl 90 warriors know how to play and the fact that a wizard can 1 Skill a warrior (Which I HIGHLY DOUBT) there is always other warriors to come and slap the grand 8k hp it has (I say 8k because the only way a wizard can even have a chance of killing a lvl 90 warrior with good gear is with life turnover)
@Magisun, debuffs don't work.
my wheel bind and bleed and shizz still work... oh and stun
Maybe we see this in different prospectives. I see this in a Job war/ Guild War situation. in which case this PT I know (and I'm not even a 2h/Cleric myself) this PT with correct usage and experienced people can triumph over any other type of PT.
Also the 2H are sub cleric, so they can also do absolute damage meaning that your INT based characters are wiped by 2 simultaneous absolute damage skills.
And the thing about MP.... lol X-L mp does the job more than enough, but if you really insist Vigors(which everyone uses) will do enough on the mp part.
KneeGrow wrote:Also the 2H are sub cleric, so they can also do absolute damage meaning that your INT based characters are wiped by 2 simultaneous absolute damage skills.
your x-l mp wont be enough if they start going like this i'm looking at it in your same perspective just so you know... cuz i've seen a pt just like wut ur describing... and it didnt go over well oh yeah mana drought too xD ty -.-
Last edited by magisuns on Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sirs1ayer wrote:no party is invincible, full str clerics with constant double bless are VERY hard to kill NO debuffs because each has holy spell Constant double bless (yes hard to coordinate but this is what seperates good from PRO) absolutes constantly Did i forget Light Armor Passives? nope. add more to the ridiculous defence.
now the rate of killing would be slow if encountering a full STR party like yourself, but ints take 2 absolutes gone? wziards with LC 1 hit.
My point. You don't need kb if you can do 10k over heal and using multiple books you win. Like I said that party is win. If you need someone to do some other dmg besides 9800, switch to their weapon.
Those doubting that party.. you just never saw a couple of people using over heal. Two people using over heal can kill any int, except in reverse. <One person over healing can kill pure> Reverse is bleh.. why bother. Str characters you need more over healing power and win. Euro str if they don't got cleric/grains you can kill it with over healing like that.
@Above it gets ruined if there is a cleric.
If being a loser means not playing Silkroad all day.. lulwut?
KneeGrow wrote:Maybe we see this in different prospectives. I see this in a Job war/ Guild War situation. in which case this PT I know (and I'm not even a 2h/Cleric myself) this PT with correct usage and experienced people can triumph over any other type of PT.
Also the 2H are sub cleric, so they can also do absolute damage meaning that your INT based characters are wiped by 2 simultaneous absolute damage skills.
And the thing about MP.... lol X-L mp does the job more than enough, but if you really insist Vigors(which everyone uses) will do enough on the mp part.
What did you think we're typing about? Surely not PvE. Pffft. I've been reading this thread, I already know you're relying on slow attacks (absolute), I know the builds involved (wouldn't be in this discussion if I didn't). Hell, I even referred to them as str clerics. >_> Are we reading the same thread? @Underlined, likewise; I know that party won't triumph against a determined party consisting of: 2 warriors, 2 wizards, 1 warlock, 1 cleric, and 2 bards. People seem to forget that other classes are there for a reason. Throw in some subclasses and you have the Ultimate European Party.
KneeGrow wrote:Maybe we see this in different prospectives. I see this in a Job war/ Guild War situation. in which case this PT I know (and I'm not even a 2h/Cleric myself) this PT with correct usage and experienced people can triumph over any other type of PT.
Also the 2H are sub cleric, so they can also do absolute damage meaning that your INT based characters are wiped by 2 simultaneous absolute damage skills.
And the thing about MP.... lol X-L mp does the job more than enough, but if you really insist Vigors(which everyone uses) will do enough on the mp part.
What did you think we're typing about? Surely not PvE. Pffft. I've been reading this thread, I already know you're relying on slow attacks (absolute), I know the builds involved (wouldn't be in this discussion if I didn't). Hell, I even referred to them as str clerics. >_> Are we reading the same thread? @Underlined, likewise; I know that party won't triumph against a determined party consisting of: 2 warriors, 2 wizards, 1 warlock, 1 cleric, and 2 bards. People seem to forget that other classes are there for a reason. Throw in some subclasses and you have the Ultimate European Party.
I will continue to disbelieve that because.... you think that if this pt were to be attacked it would stand still? If a wizard even gets close enough to do mana drain, it will only mana drain 1 warrior, and there are other 7 ready to sodomize it.
Point is, whatever you can throw at this pt, it can be easily countered by ressing, a never ending stream of bless spell, an endless supply of stackable screens, skins, or an arsenal of endless atacks that can stun, knock back, knock down, dull etc....
sirs1ayer wrote:no party is invincible, full str clerics with constant double bless are VERY hard to kill NO debuffs because each has holy spell Constant double bless (yes hard to coordinate but this is what seperates good from PRO) absolutes constantly Did i forget Light Armor Passives? nope. add more to the ridiculous defence.
now the rate of killing would be slow if encountering a full STR party like yourself, but ints take 2 absolutes gone? wziards with LC 1 hit.
My point. You don't need kb if you can do 10k over heal and using multiple books you win. Like I said that party is win. If you need someone to do some other dmg besides 9800, switch to their weapon.
Those doubting that party.. you just never saw a couple of people using over heal. Two people using over heal can kill any int, except in reverse. <One person over healing can kill pure> Reverse is bleh.. why bother. Str characters you need more over healing power and win. Euro str if they don't got cleric/grains you can kill it with over healing like that.
@Above it gets ruined if there is a cleric.
over heal is slow.....and I imagine ur scenario is 2 parties group together saying "sir u stay here and I will stay here, do not move/phantom ok, ty, I will cast over heal till u die" Toshi u have seen job wars on Troy u know that not everyone stays in one spot taking dmg. specially Chinese they all run/phamton when needed. warlocks cast debuff, 2hand use dare devil, rogue use prick and u can still get alway with clerics/bard help. and just like most pt about 4 will follow u getting out of cleric/bard buff range. and leave the rest behind to die....
my point is that a party is a good as u want it to be. if the whole party don't stay together they will most likely fail.
You're right over heal is slow and that most users do run away because they lack power in their side, but bind solves it(If there is no holy word present). If they'll run how will they kill anything? Once they do try and kill something the over healing will start and since there is 8 in the party that I said it'll be an instant kill against any int, euros, but pure str chinese would require more than a couple people using over heal.
You don't use one book of over healing, you use two right after another. After the 3rd time(1st, 2nd, 1st) there is a second or two to wait, but by then the person would've taken enough dmg to die.
Example- Let's say we have two hybrid int spears that has 16k hp(I dunno if it's too high.. but meh) and two clerics having over heal.
The clerics would target one nuker and same with the spears.
<Clerics receive XXX dmg, but healing orbit is casted+bless and they don't drop half> Cleric are using over heal doing 8000dmg(It's like 78XX but I forgot the exact) that's 14000 now the nuker pots from 2k to let's say he's back at 10k by the time he makes 10k another set of over heal is casted <Think it's 9800x2=19600 dmg> good enough to die. Of course since they won't be at the exact time he would die with the 3rd of 4th over heal casted.
An example of 2 str glaivers vs 2 clerics. Won't really work since they can't produce enough constant damage to kill one. Like I said you'll need multiple to kill a chinese str.
<Same thing with glaiver's dmg> Clerics cast 14000. Glaiver would be at 18k~25k hp after his pots. Clerics cast 20000. Glaiver would be at 10k~20k hp after potting once again. Clerics cast 14000. Glaiver would be at... I'm not entirely sure. Would be sitting at 5~10k
<Remember keep this in mind I'm not entirely sure, but that should be close or at least I think>
That is if they don't get knocked backed/stunned and stopping over heal. Don't believe me? Get two clerics that are 90 to do that. 100% sure the int would die instantly, but the glaive.. he won't die, but would be near.
If someone could test this out it'd be nice.
If being a loser means not playing Silkroad all day.. lulwut?
KneeGrow wrote:Maybe we see this in different prospectives. I see this in a Job war/ Guild War situation. in which case this PT I know (and I'm not even a 2h/Cleric myself) this PT with correct usage and experienced people can triumph over any other type of PT.
Also the 2H are sub cleric, so they can also do absolute damage meaning that your INT based characters are wiped by 2 simultaneous absolute damage skills.
And the thing about MP.... lol X-L mp does the job more than enough, but if you really insist Vigors(which everyone uses) will do enough on the mp part.
What did you think we're typing about? Surely not PvE. Pffft. I've been reading this thread, I already know you're relying on slow attacks (absolute), I know the builds involved (wouldn't be in this discussion if I didn't). Hell, I even referred to them as str clerics. >_> Are we reading the same thread? @Underlined, likewise; I know that party won't triumph against a determined party consisting of: 2 warriors, 2 wizards, 1 warlock, 1 cleric, and 2 bards. People seem to forget that other classes are there for a reason. Throw in some subclasses and you have the Ultimate European Party.
I will continue to disbelieve that because.... you think that if this pt were to be attacked it would stand still? If a wizard even gets close enough to do mana drain, it will only mana drain 1 warrior, and there are other 7 ready to sodomize it.
Point is, whatever you can throw at this pt, it can be easily countered by ressing, a never ending stream of bless spell, an endless supply of stackable screens, skins, or an arsenal of endless atacks that can stun, knock back, knock down, dull etc....
Because we don't have more (and better) stun, KB, KD, dull etc.... Because We don't have people with sub cleric. Because you will have enough time to cast your attack, and because sprint assault won't be interrupted. Your party isn't mobile and seems a lot like this:
Excuse me, enemy party; please stand still, don't fight back, and don't interrupt our attacks. Just stay right there while we use absolute until you die. You're doing A LOT of underestimating and you obviously don't understand every European Class' use in PvP.
KneeGrow wrote:Maybe we see this in different prospectives. I see this in a Job war/ Guild War situation. in which case this PT I know (and I'm not even a 2h/Cleric myself) this PT with correct usage and experienced people can triumph over any other type of PT.
Also the 2H are sub cleric, so they can also do absolute damage meaning that your INT based characters are wiped by 2 simultaneous absolute damage skills.
And the thing about MP.... lol X-L mp does the job more than enough, but if you really insist Vigors(which everyone uses) will do enough on the mp part.
What did you think we're typing about? Surely not PvE. Pffft. I've been reading this thread, I already know you're relying on slow attacks (absolute), I know the builds involved (wouldn't be in this discussion if I didn't). Hell, I even referred to them as str clerics. >_> Are we reading the same thread? @Underlined, likewise; I know that party won't triumph against a determined party consisting of: 2 warriors, 2 wizards, 1 warlock, 1 cleric, and 2 bards. People seem to forget that other classes are there for a reason. Throw in some subclasses and you have the Ultimate European Party.
I will continue to disbelieve that because.... you think that if this pt were to be attacked it would stand still? If a wizard even gets close enough to do mana drain, it will only mana drain 1 warrior, and there are other 7 ready to sodomize it.
Point is, whatever you can throw at this pt, it can be easily countered by ressing, a never ending stream of bless spell, an endless supply of stackable screens, skins, or an arsenal of endless atacks that can stun, knock back, knock down, dull etc....
THank you for ignoring what I have pointed out in my posts.
Warrior changes to res, his buffs go down. Wizard will not only have warrior buffs, but bard buffs as well. So 60%+ of the attack is NEGATED and over 50% of the remaining damage is redirected. Congrats, you now have wizards taking less damage then a blader. THEN you have to worry about three wizards baring down upon you, with Turnover on, Int buffed, Dance of Wizardry... yeah, you're not going to get very far at all.
What did you think we're typing about? Surely not PvE. Pffft. I've been reading this thread, I already know you're relying on slow attacks (absolute), I know the builds involved (wouldn't be in this discussion if I didn't). Hell, I even referred to them as str clerics. >_> Are we reading the same thread? @Underlined, likewise; I know that party won't triumph against a determined party consisting of: 2 warriors, 2 wizards, 1 warlock, 1 cleric, and 2 bards. People seem to forget that other classes are there for a reason. Throw in some subclasses and you have the Ultimate European Party.
