why Fire and not Lightning ?

[nohunta]

This topic just convinced me to delvl my light :O on my semi active nuker

[Blurred]

Lightning is slightly stronger, however lightning nuke often skips in damage. Lightning can do 16k nuke once, then it would do 11k - 12k nuke next time. Fire however does not. Fire always does high damage so it seems a lot stronger. But if you like using phantom then nuking along with a bit of high speed without relying on bards... Go Light.

EDIT: I played on my friend's lvl 90 bich light nuker, and hes really strong with light 90. I guess its all about personal taste.

[Backfire]

You dont need more than 10m to phantom away... after being KD'd or stun'd hit phantom and nuke. Light is SO inconsistent... If you are looking to KILL people you want fire... Light will always skip around in damage so its almost impossible to predict. Fire has 1 bad nuke out of every 4.. I nuke 16-17k consistently and sometimes 13k on a bad nuke. And blurred, light isn't slightly stronger. Sum1 did the math in the last thread and fire was stronger by like 300 or smthn

[Phaidra]

I still say light the extra mag damage can help alot with the weak ice nukes. It's just my opinion, I also value the input regarding fire being better not just saying lmfao like the ignorant anus after my post.

[AngelMare]

Ok, let's have a look at the numbers then:
fire imbue lvl 89: 658~1097 + burn
flame wave wide lvl 90: 1060~1766
flame wave bomb lvl 90: 1060~1766

lightning imbue lvl 89: 522~970 + shock
piercing force lvl 28: 7%
piercing force lvl 88: 18%
horse's thunderbolt lvl 86: 876~1627
crane's thunderbolt lvl 90: 989~1837

The % behind the nukes appear to have as much relevance to damage multiplier as to execution time, so I'll ignore them for this example. Damage/second should not be influenced much by it. I'll also assume the damage from burn is about equal to the shock effect.

Damage of 2 fire nukes = (658~1097+1060~1766)*2*107%=3677~6127=4902 on average
Damage of 2 lightning nukes = ((522~970+876~1627)+(522~970+989~1837))*118%=3433~6377=4905 on average
Note that both numbers are without nuke multipliers.

If you leave lightning at 30, then it comes out slightly weaker than the lightning 90 option. I've noticed though that things rapidly change if you're willing to drop a bit of cold in return for a bit more lightning. It seems that fire 90/bicheon 90/lightning 60/cold60 might be a pretty strong build actually. The problem is of course: what to do with the future caps. If you're planning to quit when the 100 cap arrives, then going fire may not be a bad bet. Otherwise you've got some deleveling to do...

the embue makes the fire nuke stronger than lightning in the end , + fire nuke always tends to give higeher dmg than lightning when it coems to the nuke multipliers .

I still say light the extra mag damage can help alot with the weak ice nukes. It's just my opinion, I also value the input regarding fire being better not just saying lmfao like the ignorant anus after my post.

nuking with ice aint a choice , ice nukes fail >.> low dmg , the lvl 90 nuke does pretty nice dmg , but not comparable to other nukes still .

[Stefaab]

lmfao. Fire is better for ints. Better imbue and better nukes.. And its 18% physical, not 9%, kthx. Give me 3 GOOD reasons that light is better. Please do... The only 1 Im coming up with is increased magical damage. BUT listen to this kids, FIRE nukes are STILL stronger even when light is at 30. omg wut did u say? Yah.. Light nukes are STILL weaker then fire nukes, even if you have an 18% increase. So I take that back... I have 0 reasons to pick light. Also @ the person talking about parry, the parry buffs are increased by a number depending on the level of the buff, not an overall percentage. And like I said... spend a few mil or break apart drops... fix your WHITE stats.... Not THAT hard... I have more parry then most ints with lightening because of my white stats.. I have a friend w/ 30 light who has 420 parry cuz all his white %'s are 61% and everything is 40% blue increase... sooo PLEASE tell me wtf lightening is good for? You guys have obviously never seen a fire nuker pvp'n a light nuker. I rock light users with a +0 spear lmfao. The evidence is out there and you guys are just not reading lmfao

Can u please start using textblocks already? i've read every post in this topic except all yours.
And on-topic: Light FTW

Probably because either A. you can't handle that fire is better statistically wise or B. you faild Farking english. Learn 2 read... Just because it looks big doesn't mean you cant do it

Stop acting so big and all ... I know it's easy to do so on a forum but just try to be friendly.
I don't care that you think fire is good or whatever, I have my opinion and that is how I build my char.
I allso didnt fail English. I think that's the most stupid reply u could give on me telling you to use textblocks. Textblocks are important for grammar and grammar is part of what u study in English.
I'm just advising you to take care of your posts because they look ugly. The only thing you are interested in is convincing other people of your opinion, so this can help u there.

@Angelmare: hey cook, i'm corn btw =)
I didnt add why I like light because I believe everything about both fire and light is already said here
I can't play without the grasswalk and I don't see any use in the fire-buffs. But that's me, go for fire if u think it will make u stronger ^^.

[Phaidra]

Ok, let's have a look at the numbers then:
fire imbue lvl 89: 658~1097 + burn
flame wave wide lvl 90: 1060~1766
flame wave bomb lvl 90: 1060~1766

lightning imbue lvl 89: 522~970 + shock
piercing force lvl 28: 7%
piercing force lvl 88: 18%
horse's thunderbolt lvl 86: 876~1627
crane's thunderbolt lvl 90: 989~1837

The % behind the nukes appear to have as much relevance to damage multiplier as to execution time, so I'll ignore them for this example. Damage/second should not be influenced much by it. I'll also assume the damage from burn is about equal to the shock effect.

Damage of 2 fire nukes = (658~1097+1060~1766)*2*107%=3677~6127=4902 on average
Damage of 2 lightning nukes = ((522~970+876~1627)+(522~970+989~1837))*118%=3433~6377=4905 on average
Note that both numbers are without nuke multipliers.

If you leave lightning at 30, then it comes out slightly weaker than the lightning 90 option. I've noticed though that things rapidly change if you're willing to drop a bit of cold in return for a bit more lightning. It seems that fire 90/bicheon 90/lightning 60/cold60 might be a pretty strong build actually. The problem is of course: what to do with the future caps. If you're planning to quit when the 100 cap arrives, then going fire may not be a bad bet. Otherwise you've got some deleveling to do...

the embue makes the fire nuke stronger than lightning in the end , + fire nuke always tends to give higeher dmg than lightning when it coems to the nuke multipliers .

I still say light the extra mag damage can help alot with the weak ice nukes. It's just my opinion, I also value the input regarding fire being better not just saying lmfao like the ignorant anus after my post.

nuking with ice aint a choice , ice nukes fail >.> low dmg , the lvl 90 nuke does pretty nice dmg , but not comparable to other nukes still .

Well I agree ice nukes are weak but they can help in certain situations just use your mind. Alot of people aren't immune to ice etc etc.

[AngelMare]

Well I agree ice nukes are weak but they can help in certain situations just use your mind. Alot of people aren't immune to ice etc etc.

yeah , against euro , but not always , mostly its so fast to think about nukes , and i would rather use nova storm or that freezing nuke like skill , easier , and more probabilty and gimme time to cast a fire heavy damaging nuke , i wont say not useful at all , but not the best .

[piXie_niXie]

Ok, let's have a look at the numbers then:
fire imbue lvl 89: 658~1097 + burn
flame wave wide lvl 90: 1060~1766
flame wave bomb lvl 90: 1060~1766

lightning imbue lvl 89: 522~970 + shock
piercing force lvl 28: 7%
piercing force lvl 88: 18%
horse's thunderbolt lvl 86: 876~1627
crane's thunderbolt lvl 90: 989~1837

The % behind the nukes appear to have as much relevance to damage multiplier as to execution time, so I'll ignore them for this example. Damage/second should not be influenced much by it. I'll also assume the damage from burn is about equal to the shock effect.

Damage of 2 fire nukes = (658~1097+1060~1766)*2*107%=3677~6127=4902 on average
Damage of 2 lightning nukes = ((522~970+876~1627)+(522~970+989~1837))*118%=3433~6377=4905 on average
Note that both numbers are without nuke multipliers.

If you leave lightning at 30, then it comes out slightly weaker than the lightning 90 option. I've noticed though that things rapidly change if you're willing to drop a bit of cold in return for a bit more lightning. It seems that fire 90/bicheon 90/lightning 60/cold60 might be a pretty strong build actually. The problem is of course: what to do with the future caps. If you're planning to quit when the 100 cap arrives, then going fire may not be a bad bet. Otherwise you've got some deleveling to do...

the fire/bicheon 90 light/cold 60 is a great build, my build, ownage build

[Phaidra]

No Might guard of ice or Snow sheild intensify? What armor do you wear, and I'm hoping you don't say garment.

[phulshof]

No Might guard of ice or Snow sheild intensify? What armor do you wear, and I'm hoping you don't say garment.

Between ghost walk, snow shield, castle/ironwall shield, and knockdown/stab, I'm not sure it matters much.

[Backfire]

No Might guard of ice or Snow sheild intensify? What armor do you wear, and I'm hoping you don't say garment.

I'm 90 fire, 90 heuksal, 60 ice, 60 light. I wear garments too. No need for incredible defense when you have incredible attack

[Phaidra]

No Might guard of ice or Snow sheild intensify? What armor do you wear, and I'm hoping you don't say garment.

I'm 90 fire, 90 heuksal, 60 ice, 60 light. I wear garments too. No need for incredible defense when you have incredible attack

*Spams 5 arrow combo which prevent you from even using a skill then crits you with strongbow*

There's ALWAYS a need for defense. I really don't see the fascination with garments...

[jay0303]

i take 90 light/sword skills/cold and force cause when i need money i plvl and i have ress i get more custumers spear passive offer little hp and fire well i really dun care about a lvl 30 imbune i got maxed lightning force i can use to heal myself and other people even if not a lot it is helpfull

[tedtwilliger]

The % behind the nukes appear to have as much relevance to damage multiplier as to execution time, so I'll ignore them for this example.

Actually This is the folly of your test, the % are a very important part of the damage calculation. This is what makes the fire nukes better than light nukes: the 330% multiplier.

Originally we all thought % was just casting time. But when the european update came in we could see the clear difference in damage. Pick a wizard and compare the damage between a 1st lvl fire nuke and a first level ice nuke. They have the same casting time and same damage figures, but the % on the nuke is what gives them such a damage difference.

BIG EDIT

Now heres some proof of my example. The following screen shots prove my point.


This is the first level ice nuke. Lets test out its damages.





Now we can see the average damage of these 3 nukes is 139. Note that these test are based on 3 nukes and they were the first 3 nukes for me to take a screenshot of.

Now lets compare it to the fire nuke. This is the first level fire nuke. Notice how the damages are the same but only the %'s change.


Now lets see its damage





Now we can see the average damage of these 3 nukes is 190 (rounded up). Note that these test are based on 3 nukes and they were the first 3 nukes for me to take a screenshot of.

Now from these results, based simply on a 3 shot trial basis, there is a large difference in the average damage. The average damage difference between the two nukes is 51 damage, a 37% increase on the average damage of the ice nuke. ( again figures rounded down )

From these results we can see how greatly the 95% difference between the two skills can cause an overall damage difference of 37%

This is what gives the fire nukes an advantage over the light nukes, the highest fire nuke has a 330% stat as opposed to the highest light nuke 300%.

This is what your example doesn't take into account and why it shouldnt be used when comparing damages.

[LivithiuM]

piXie_niXie
mag on sword is the 2nd lowest of all weapons, only blade is lower, and at 10k nuke the extra 8% is only 800 more damage

He is using sword and I am saying that the magic on the sword is greatly higher compared to the physical damage of the sword therefor when you multiply out the damage done any magical dmg of course is ging to be more damage.

Please go fight someone and use your sword skills WITHOUT using imbue. The imbue is where a pure int will get their damage on melee attacks. I am saying this as a general comment, I am aware if you are fighting pure int with garm the increase you get from physical damage buff and the passive might make the damage more due to the physical defence of the target. However very few chars are this inbalanced.

Backfire

lmfao. Fire is better for ints. Better imbue and better nukes.. And its 18% physical, not 9%

it is 18% at 90 however weren't we discussing the comparison of only having 30 fire instead of 90? Therefor as your argument of 90 fire instead of 30 suggests yes it is only like 14% difference.. I thought it was 9 previously.

The reasons I do not understand your arguments are:

1. 30 fire is all that is needed for 100% immune if you just use good accessories. So no bonus for 90 fire here.
2. The damage you do with bicheon skills is not gratly increased by +physical damage(14%) as the sword has the lowest physical damage out of all chinese weapons. However if you increased the magical attack more(8%) this increase would be more damage with the imbue.
3. Parry loss is not a huge concern you say, 27 loss max that is nothing... however if you had that 27 more you would soon realise it is a shitload more than just 27.
For example:
5% bonus from avatar
10%bonus from premplus
30% bonus from trigger scroll
So 27 x1.45 = 39.15 .... you like to lose 39 parry? (all of the bonuses are quite achievable)
4. The obvious loss of good grasswalk/phantom

But then you say what you gain from 90 fire:
1.Fire nukes are stronger... but 8% weaker because you do not have 90 light.(both builds have 90 cold)
2.you have all the nukes in fire that you need... as does light.(both builds have 90 cold)
3.You can use Firewall? why... lol... honestly this is part of your argument? You want to stand in one spot... now that is an active char.
4. Fire combustion big advantage? I dunno I use 90 fire but i did not even level these useless skills, they are such a waste of sp. I won't even bother to go into why it has been discussed so many times before.
5. finally the light imbue vs fire imbue difference. I agree fire imbue is better for damage!! =]

BTW I think 90Fire90bich60Ice60light is ok also

[piXie_niXie]

Ok, let's have a look at the numbers then:
fire imbue lvl 89: 658~1097 + burn
flame wave wide lvl 90: 1060~1766
flame wave bomb lvl 90: 1060~1766

lightning imbue lvl 89: 522~970 + shock
piercing force lvl 28: 7%
piercing force lvl 88: 18%
horse's thunderbolt lvl 86: 876~1627
crane's thunderbolt lvl 90: 989~1837

The % behind the nukes appear to have as much relevance to damage multiplier as to execution time, so I'll ignore them for this example. Damage/second should not be influenced much by it. I'll also assume the damage from burn is about equal to the shock effect.

Damage of 2 fire nukes = (658~1097+1060~1766)*2*107%=3677~6127=4902 on average
Damage of 2 lightning nukes = ((522~970+876~1627)+(522~970+989~1837))*118%=3433~6377=4905 on average
Note that both numbers are without nuke multipliers.

If you leave lightning at 30, then it comes out slightly weaker than the lightning 90 option. I've noticed though that things rapidly change if you're willing to drop a bit of cold in return for a bit more lightning. It seems that fire 90/bicheon 90/lightning 60/cold60 might be a pretty strong build actually. The problem is of course: what to do with the future caps. If you're planning to quit when the 100 cap arrives, then going fire may not be a bad bet. Otherwise you've got some deleveling to do...

the embue makes the fire nuke stronger than lightning in the end , + fire nuke always tends to give higeher dmg than lightning when it coems to the nuke multipliers .

I still say light the extra mag damage can help alot with the weak ice nukes. It's just my opinion, I also value the input regarding fire being better not just saying lmfao like the ignorant anus after my post.

nuking with ice aint a choice , ice nukes fail >.> low dmg , the lvl 90 nuke does pretty nice dmg , but not comparable to other nukes still .

Well I agree ice nukes are weak but they can help in certain situations just use your mind. Alot of people aren't immune to ice etc etc.

any chinese with a small addiction to alchemy will get immune to ice

[Jazba]

Between all these builds
i m trying to be
pure int s/s with garments

90 LIGHT + 90 ICE + 90 FORCE + 30 FIRE

1. ur first 2 attacks should be 2 force lvl 80-90 de-buffs, 80% probility casting time = 0

2. LIGHT nukes lvl 86 + lvl 90 nukes

3.when snowshield ends" juz run, phantam, run to safe zone, or juz run away for 1 min if u r jobbing. whocares if they call u noob, or slut PURE INT build not suppose to tank.

4. Bicheon tree gives ironwall+passive br , Heuksal tree gives magical+2826 hp @ lvl 90, i think force tree leave behind both of weapon tree's behind cuz of de-buffs + u can also remove bad status from urself too [dull+bleed+division] + 2826 mana @ lvl 90

5. 30 fire to be immune.

i m not saying my build is ultimate, but what do u guys think of my build.

P.S casting time of fire n light nukes = same, BUT BUT BUT fire nuke got more range than lightning nuke.

[foudre]

i've been seriously questioning my choice to build jade falcon with out fire (this build would probally be better with sword/ sheild then a spear but i just like the way spear looks more,70:70 hybrid 90 heuk, 90 light/force, 30 ice) but you said about those pesky wizzards phantom + spin, almost as fast as a sprint assualt and it will kill the wizzard, or a xbow rogue, what you loose in magic defense you can make up for in some speed, to get up and quickly hit an oppenent, if you see a rogue drop out of stealth you probally won't have time to nuke them well, and its not all about the parry ratio quicker movement can be used to your advantage too, but you might be right about it being overall better for defense, but with out good light you might not catch your target (unless you just buy drugs, still can't drug phantom), i've actually been thinking about picking fire over light but i dont' think i can live with out light cause i'm not going to buy drugs to grind and grinding with no grasswalk is too slow for me to stand

[BaronSengir]

light= 67 more parry at lvl 90 (ok.. so u add 40% blues so what u can have 40% blues with 67 parry)not even 67 more like 27

light= 8%more mag when at 90(from 30) gives u 8% more dmg when using nukes... which means its better than fight say 10k nuke without buffs, thats 11800 with 18% and 11000 with 10%, not that big of difference plus with fire u have stronger imbue

light= speed... no speed ur nothing/phatom aswelldrug of typhoon

light= u got 2 nukes u can use side to side..fire u have 2 nukes to use side by side plus u have a fast casting nuke with decent power as finisher

fire.. u lose phy attack.. so what u do more mag attacks..int's with wep skills do more damage than str's with wep skills, cuz the mag att of the imbue increase damage by alot

fire.. u lose mag defs.. so what ur an int char u got enuffnothing is enough, besides all builds use mag attack on chinese and only ones that dont on euro are rouges and warriors

fire.. u can still be immune to ppl at lvl 30masteryscost more to get all 20% than only majority with 20%

ok... light is better than fire for nukers

not quite, my preferance is 60light/cold 90 fire/bicheon

my nukers that build but what kinda build for 100cap? i dont even know what to do heh

[phulshof]

The % behind the nukes appear to have as much relevance to damage multiplier as to execution time, so I'll ignore them for this example.

Actually This is the folly of your test, the % are a very important part of the damage calculation. This is what makes the fire nukes better than light nukes: the 330% multiplier.

Originally we all thought % was just casting time. But when the european update came in we could see the clear difference in damage. Pick a wizard and compare the damage between a 1st lvl fire nuke and a first level ice nuke. They have the same casting time and same damage figures, but the % on the nuke is what gives them such a damage difference.

I know what we all thought originally, and we were wrong, but the truth of the matter is that the 267% fire nuke IS a lot quicker than the 330% fire nuke, and the lightning nuke IS somewhere in between. If you look at damage/second, the output WILL be about the same. I used to have both fire and lightning nukes; I'm familiar with their casting time and their cooldown periods.

You still haven't answered my question with regards to 100 cap and beyond though. What ARE your plans?

[AngelMare]

piXie_niXie
mag on sword is the 2nd lowest of all weapons, only blade is lower, and at 10k nuke the extra 8% is only 800 more damage

He is using sword and I am saying that the magic on the sword is greatly higher compared to the physical damage of the sword therefor when you multiply out the damage done any magical dmg of course is ging to be more damage.

Please go fight someone and use your sword skills WITHOUT using imbue. The imbue is where a pure int will get their damage on melee attacks. I am saying this as a general comment, I am aware if you are fighting pure int with garm the increase you get from physical damage buff and the passive might make the damage more due to the physical defence of the target. However very few chars are this inbalanced.

Backfire

lmfao. Fire is better for ints. Better imbue and better nukes.. And its 18% physical, not 9%

it is 18% at 90 however weren't we discussing the comparison of only having 30 fire instead of 90? Therefor as your argument of 90 fire instead of 30 suggests yes it is only like 14% difference.. I thought it was 9 previously.

The reasons I do not understand your arguments are:

1. 30 fire is all that is needed for 100% immune if you just use good accessories. So no bonus for 90 fire here.
2. The damage you do with bicheon skills is not gratly increased by +physical damage(14%) as the sword has the lowest physical damage out of all chinese weapons. However if you increased the magical attack more(8%) this increase would be more damage with the imbue.
3. Parry loss is not a huge concern you say, 27 loss max that is nothing... however if you had that 27 more you would soon realise it is a shitload more than just 27.
For example:
5% bonus from avatar
10%bonus from premplus
30% bonus from trigger scroll
So 27 x1.45 = 39.15 .... you like to lose 39 parry? (all of the bonuses are quite achievable)
4. The obvious loss of good grasswalk/phantom

But then you say what you gain from 90 fire:
1.Fire nukes are stronger... but 8% weaker because you do not have 90 light.(both builds have 90 cold)
2.you have all the nukes in fire that you need... as does light.(both builds have 90 cold)
3.You can use Firewall? why... lol... honestly this is part of your argument? You want to stand in one spot... now that is an active char.
4. Fire combustion big advantage? I dunno I use 90 fire but i did not even level these useless skills, they are such a waste of sp. I won't even bother to go into why it has been discussed so many times before.
5. finally the light imbue vs fire imbue difference. I agree fire imbue is better for damage!! =]

BTW I think 90Fire90bich60Ice60light is ok also

am sorry again -.- but like i said , even with the 8% magical buff down , my fire nuke + embue gives me higher damage than lightning nukers.

[phulshof]

am sorry again -.- but like i said , even with the 8% magical buff down , my fire nuke + embue gives me higher damage than lightning nukers.

So, again, what ARE you gonna do at the 100 and 120 cap?

[Makaveli]

am sorry again -.- but like i said , even with the 8% magical buff down , my fire nuke + embue gives me higher damage than lightning nukers.

So, again, what ARE you gonna do at the 100 and 120 cap?

Quit sro

[AngelMare]

am sorry again -.- but like i said , even with the 8% magical buff down , my fire nuke + embue gives me higher damage than lightning nukers.

So, again, what ARE you gonna do at the 100 and 120 cap?

Quit sro

mmm , when that come ill think , still plenty of time xD ill make sure to have some light dont worry

[firefox6]

in the end the best pure int will be wep(s/s or spear) 150 & light 150.

as the cap goes up you will see i am right. for the 90 cap IMO the best is 90 wep / 90 cold / 90 light / 30 fire
as the caps go up you will drop fire at 100. at 110 you will start to drop cold.

we all know the mastery cap(300) will never go up.

[fckerr]

... Why not having them both?

[firefox6]

... Why not having them both?

mastery cap

[NuclearSilo]

in the end the best pure int will be wep(s/s or spear) 150 & light 150.

as the cap goes up you will see i am right. for the 90 cap IMO the best is 90 wep / 90 cold / 90 light / 30 fire
as the caps go up you will drop fire at 100. at 110 you will start to drop cold.

we all know the mastery cap(300) will never go up.

and get owned by 1 strongbow +25% crit

[KillAndChill]

light= 67 more parry at lvl 90 (ok.. so u add 40% blues so what u can have 40% blues with 67 parry)not even 67 more like 27

Concentration 4th lvl 3 (get at lvl 89) = 34
Heaven's Force lvl 9 (Passive at lvl 90) = 33
34+33=67