The Powerleveling Problem

[Fly]

http://www.silkroadonline.net/guide/ht_party.asp

You can also invite someone through the chatting window by clicking on their name. (not available)
In a party, the difference in level can be no more than 5 levels and there is a maximum of 8 members.
Experience can be given in two methods : Auto Share or Distribution

1. Experience Auto Share

The monsters defeated or quests completed will give experience that is distributed automatically to the entire party in a equal portion with the total being subject to variance of level difference.

2. Experience Distribution

The experience is given according to your own individual contribution from the damage you gave to a targeted monster. In a party with the distribution option selected the level difference between the party leader will not restrict members from joining.

Thats from the Joymax help file. There game designers understood the importance of not allowing powerleveling yet there coders failed miserably.

We need to get together and send in bug reports to have them fix there party system. Our combined bug reports fixed the Quota glitch. We can put an end to powerleveling.

Legits gain there levels by hand grinding. 99% of euro botters get powerleveled. I belive this is the next step we must take in order to make Venus the legit heaven its ment to be.

All the legit guilds on venus know the pain in the ass plvling has been. Avalon over the course of its year on venus has kicked atleast 300 players for this issue alone.

With the fix of 5 levels above/below party leader, powerleveling will compleatly die off. Legits will once again control the euro population of the server, and botters will be forced to either quit there euros, or attempt to bot them.

Powerleveling has hurt the legit community also by legit plvling. We have alot of middle tier players that are rejected from parties because they dont know there builds. Being rejected makes them bitter and causes un-needed drama. On top of that the begging for plvl by both legits and botters is just annoying as hell. powerlevel has brought out the worst in SRO. Getting rid of it would boost grind parties. Players who relied on plvl will start to party. botters who relied on plvl may be tempted to reroll legit and grind with our community, instead of being rejected.

Lets all get Joymax to implement there original design and fix this issue once and for all! Someone should write a nice clean report that we can all send in to joymax.

[sheeplol6]

i agree bot plvl is a problem among legit guilds and that this would be resolved with a ban for plvl by joymax or reduction in the autoshare system.

BUT
i also dont see whats wrong with legits plvling legits or guildmates etc.
it would also make euro partys harder to find.

im sure everyone has made an ALT on A server and had it plvled to what.. level 20?

it seems that your problem is with bot powerlevelling, but i dont see how legits powerlevelling legits is really a problem. joymax just needs to get maybe a more frequent ban, but lets be honest, theyve done well recently and it seems you just want more and more out of them...

[andrejat]

Is there a level restriction on 8 man parties in kSRO, cSRO, or vSRO?

The problem isn't power leveling.

It's that this game is boring, repetitive, and brings no true replay value OR incentive for new or older players.

Think I'm wrong? How many people on this game get p leveled, buy gold, buy levels, and buy/use bots?

Power leveling isn't a problem, it's a symptom of an ever greater problem.

[Spanktastik]

Id like to add..

- If you have suggestions to make Fly's idea better, feel free to discuss it.
- If you do not agree with his post, thats fine, you dont have to do anything.
- If you feel like flaming, try to refrain. This thread should be kept CLEAN as it is in the best interest of all legits... weather you like Fly/Avalon or not.


Now, my suggestion is, maybe some kind of online petition people could sign? We can send the link to Joymax along with our report.

(Edited for clarity)
(Edited again because Guthix had to start trouble)

[sheeplol6]

i fail to see how i flamed anyone. i dont see any rude language/ offensive material in my previous post.
i have no problems with fly or avalon. im unsure to why you insinuated that in your post.

this is a forum to discuss. if i wish it is my right to show my objection towards ideas.

And I know lots of legit players that have a second char and used 2 computers to level up their alt

would that not still be a powerlevel?

[Ygraine]

Hmm, the taxi PLVL started to flip when the academies started. You saw 1 high level academy leader taxiing his students to level them up as fast as possible for the honour points and honour stuff. And since the academy system is bugged it's perhaps better to suggest JM to remove the whole system?

Your suggestion is nice for the high level players. I try to teach the newbees in my guild how to use their build. A new player (never played SRO) joins the guild, takes a build without knowing what he is really taking. To learn him how to use his build I go with him in parties at very low level and tell him and try to show him how to use his skills and how to act and interact in a party. It's not powerleveling in my eyes but it's helping a newbee and I'm certainly not doing it for giving the new player hp. He isn't a dumb trail in my back but a party player that has to cast buffs, speed, taunt targets etc...

I don't think that the +5/-5 level is a good thing for lower level players

And I know lots of legit players that have a second char and use 2 computers to level up their alt ^^ Level 90 levelling up an alt level 1, or let's say a level 70 levelling up a level 10

[andrejat]

i fail to see how i flamed anyone. i dont see any rude language/ offensive material in my previous post.
i have no problems with fly or avalon. im unsure to why you insinuated that in your post.

this is a forum to discuss. if i wish it is my right to show my objection towards ideas.

And I know lots of legit players that have a second char and used 2 computers to level up their alt

would that not still be a powerlevel?

If the p leveler is lvl 70+, in a legit union, then oh it's ok he can power level his own noob all he wants.

But for anyone else? Oh no, it's evillll and makes them lazzzyyy and bot supporters.

*rolls eyes*

Am I inciting flaming or hatred? Well, then tell me my observation isn't correct.

[Fly]

Hmm, the taxi PLVL started to flip when the academies started. You saw 1 high level academy leader taxiing his students to level them up as fast as possible for the honour points and honour stuff. And since the academy system is bugged it's perhaps better to suggest JM to remove the whole system?

Your suggestion is nice for the high level players. I try to teach the newbees in my guild how to use their build. A new player (never played SRO) joins the guild, takes a build without knowing what he is really taking. To learn him how to use his build I go with him in parties at very low level and tell him and try to show him how to use his skills and how to act and interact in a party. It's not powerleveling in my eyes but it's helping a newbee and I'm certainly not doing it for giving the new player hp. He isn't a dumb trail in my back but a party player that has to cast buffs, speed, taunt targets etc...

I don't think that the +5/-5 level is a good thing for lower level players

And I know lots of legit players that have a second char and used 2 computers to level up their alt ^^ Level 90 levelling up an alt level 1

the acedemy system was ment to help lower levels find players willing to teach them. in return, the higher level recives a small exp bonus and points towards a kick ass weapon.

the problem is how exp is shared. joymax planned from the start to have parties not gain (leech) exp off a high level player. as you can see on there site, they specified that the 5 level requirement does not effect distribute parties. share pt's were ment for party grind. not 1 guy grinding with meny others leeching.

its also not a coincidence that you gain the best exp at a mob 10-12 levels higher then you. a full euro pt can kill those quite easy. that is also the mob level that people plvl at. so taking out plvl and forcing people to hand grind, you are taking the work off 1 char, spreading it to 8 chars, and keeping the exp gain the same for all 8.

with that in mind, you can see that powerlevel reduces the number of active players. it creates lazy bums that cant play there build. it leaves guilds half full. it lowers the amount of time you need to spend playing silkroad. nice for those wanting a free ride. bad for those who care about the community and the game. the more time people spend on there chars, the more jobbing will happen. the more friendships happen. more guilds are formed. more rivalrys made. ect.

every negitive effect botting has on silkroad, plvling also has. if botting did not ruin the game, none of us would be against it. we are just starting to open our eyes and see the negitive effects of powerleveling. given time its effects will be worse then botting due to its speed, number, and ease. and then we will have a bigger "unlegit" problem to take care of then we do now.

[Fly]

i fail to see how i flamed anyone. i dont see any rude language/ offensive material in my previous post.
i have no problems with fly or avalon. im unsure to why you insinuated that in your post.

this is a forum to discuss. if i wish it is my right to show my objection towards ideas.

And I know lots of legit players that have a second char and used 2 computers to level up their alt

would that not still be a powerlevel?

If the p leveler is lvl 70+, in a legit union, then oh it's ok he can power level his own noob all he wants.

But for anyone else? Oh no, it's evillll and makes them lazzzyyy and bot supporters.

*rolls eyes*

Am I inciting flaming or hatred? Well, then tell me my observation isn't correct.

you are 100% right. The only difference between plvl and bot is that plvl has an easy solution that joymax itself designed but did not implement. we can fix plvl and save ourself alot of issues. as for botting and bot support, the war will have to continue.

[non ego man]

It would be nice if they amended the party board as well so that the level range would be + or - 5 of the guy who initially put the party up. So if I was level 45, the board would say 40-50. When the second guy joined, maybe a level 42, then the range would automatically update 40-47. Just a thought.

[Fly]

It would be nice if they amended the party board as well so that the level range would be + or - 5 of the guy who initially put the party up. So if I was level 45, the board would say 40-50. When the second guy joined, maybe a level 42, then the range would automatically update 40-47. Just a thought.

i think it was designed to be + or - 5 at all times depending on the leader. kinda a low range, 7-9 would be better. but the idea is simple, easy to implement, and effective. thats the only reason i think joymax would ever listen to it and implement it. that and the fact its there own idea to begin with.

[Barotix]

They missed the glitch and won't fix it until people A]start speaking out or B]it affects sales. Good move on your part, Fly. There was a thread on this very issue in the GD when power-leveling started to become popular. It was Sylhana and I who were against power-level and several others applauded the great aid in leveling. Now it comes to bite us in the ass. The problem of powerlevel is harder to fight, and if you wish to defeat it you must tackle the source.

@Andre; no, power-level is bad period. I understand, I have had power-level. Every Euro I have made has been power-leveled at times. Power-level has never impeded my ability to play my build properly and it never will but there are those who need to play a build to be good with it, they can't merely read up on theories and then put them into practice and come out fabulous, they must use their hands. The power-level system brings a quicker end to guilds and communities, than does the botting epidemic.

Now Academy system; I was very disappointed about the Academy system. It has become a medium for power-leveled idiotic a.d.d. suffering twats who can't play their build properly no matter how many times they are scolded about their lack of skills and told how to play. "No KD", Response: "But it looks cool" or "It helps me hit higher."

Botting was killing SRO, Power-level is simply driving the stake deeper.

[Ygraine]

the acedemy system was ment to help lower levels find players willing to teach them. in return, the higher level recives a small exp bonus and points towards a kick ass weapon.

And it's a poor system because teaching party play is better done at guild level. So remove the academy system and let guilds find and teach their new players how to play in parties ^^ In fact academy leaders started to take over the guild members role but they only started taxiing. If guilds were more willing taking in and making time to help newbees the academy system is just overdue.

And I don't think that they missed the glitch it was probably reported more than once through the support desk. Let's say that it's not a priority to fix?

Well older players all know that on certain servers players start an academy, take in their own multi client accounts or accounts running on a 2nd and 3rd PC etc, level them up with their bot and when the slaves are level 40 they sell the chars for in game gold through the mean of globals And they have the points and the stuff ^^ It's just a couple of multiclient bots more on the server that's all. Hmm, happened on Venus too.

[Kyau]

Id like to add..

- If you have suggestions to make Fly's idea better, feel free to discuss it.
- If you do not agree with his post, thats fine, you dont have to do anything.
- If you feel like flaming, stfu and hit the back button - go to another flame thread. This thread should be kept CLEAN as it is in the best interest of all legits... weather you like Fly/Avalon or not.


Now, my suggestion is, maybe some kind of online petition people could sign? We can send the link to Joymax along with our report.

(Edited for clarity)

+1 on that !

[AngloKnight]

Well I have some points to highlight here...

Having -/+ 5 ppl around the party leader would suck since we at chasers for example accept ppl as low as 72 and as high as 90... I know the 72s should be at the generals but running low on builds, they might not be able to make a party... say they're now like 78, they still could go to generals but they would prefer chasers for more exp, now having this system and a lvl90 guy in the party, they won't be able to join...

One question too, would members from all lvls be able to join 8 man parties or not? cos in pvp/FW/GW we usually invite any lvls...

I think the current system is okay but joymax could do some other stuff to fix it.. Say for example a high lvl member is helping lowbies in a power party where everyone does his own role, would they take exp??? Joymax could combat that by denying exp to members in a party if they're afk for example or not using skills at all... just suggestions but I hope wat Fly said doesn't ruin the current benefits...

[deathtoall]

Nice post, just one question. What about people who powerlevel their own alts. Should it be said that if anyone wants an alt they should level it themselves?

[Argonaut]

Nice post, just one question. What about people who powerlevel their own alts. Should it be said that if anyone wants an alt they should level it themselves?

This post isn't against powerleveling. Until the system is fixed, feel free to powerlevel your alts all you want. Not like its suddenly "not legit" to powerlevel...

[deathtoall]

Thats cool, but why change it now when 80% of the people(legits) in Venus have 2 to 3 alts they have powerleveld themselves using this party system that fly is saying is wrong, and should be changed.

Just curious thats all. But if joymax changes it I say, if you have a powerleveled alt, then delete it.

[Millenium]

Very hypocritical.

Everybody (except for few) including whoever started the thread has powerleveld before. Don't complain if you're taking advantage of it but don't want others to.

[Barotix]

Very hypocritical.

Everybody (except for few) including whoever started the thread has powerleveld before. Don't complain if you're taking advantage of it but don't want others to.

Just because you have participated in something before doesn't mean you shouldn't campaign for it's end, especially after seeing the negative effects on the game.

[Millenium]

Very hypocritical.

Everybody (except for few) including whoever started the thread has powerleveld before. Don't complain if you're taking advantage of it but don't want others to.

Just because you have participated in something before doesn't mean you shouldn't campaign for it's end, especially after seeing the negative effects on the game.

The fact is even the topic started has plvled/is plvling somebody. And his guild. And his union. It makes no sense to ask others to stop before stopping themselves.

Of course, I might be wrong, in that case, I'm sorry.

[AngloKnight]

Very hypocritical.

Everybody (except for few) including whoever started the thread has powerleveld before. Don't complain if you're taking advantage of it but don't want others to.

I think the general thing, at least for Venus, is that the benefits are less... but some of those benefits I'd persnonally be sad if they're gone, like having parties at chasers with ppl randing from lvl72 to 90.. and in pvp/GW/FW/jobbing...

[LadyGee]

I'd love it if Joymax implemented something like this across the board, not just for plevel.
It would help the party system so much to keep players grinding on mobs within their range.
With the way it currently is, so many lower level players have trouble finding parties because the players that are slightly higher level but still within reasonable range of the mobs are opting to go to mobs 11+ levels higher instead of joining parties within their range.

It would also definitely cripple the bots to a certain extent and would cleanse the server of players who are too lazy to hand grind to earn their levels.

[non ego man]

The PvP would be easy to fix...no level penalty when wearing cape or job. So if you kill a mob while in cape or job, the XP is applied only to the killer, as though they were soloing. Simple.

And yeah, a lot of Avalon has been plvld recently but about 90% of those who got plvld to 3x quit or were booted anyway because they sucked and didn't want to learn their build. Lesson learned? Poweleveling sucks for everyone.

For me, Comp plvled me from 21-25 and Goob plvld me 25% of 45 the other day, which basically just got me back to where I was two weeks ago when I started trying to solo my wiz because of the lack of penon pts when I play.

[Guthix]

Yes but also you'd ose the ability to pfarm, and help lower lvl people if needed. The limit lvls for parties would be too strict. there would be lvls in witch people had no parties at all and struggle.

Its like to destry gold bots. Imagine if during echanges, you would be forced to give something worth as much as the item the other person is giving you. For example, a sword is worth 10 mil, so you must give 10 mil. If you give 10 mil, the other person must give 10 mil or something worth 10 mil. It's exactly what they did on runescape and it KILLED gold bots to the last of them. But it also killed a part of the game, and unbalanced the economy the first days, what if i wanted to give something to a friend for free? I couldn't.

You need to make such sacrifices to destroy bot taxies. Personaly I think there could be another way around this.

[IreMoon]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think when Euro first came out the party system was working. I remember being level 12 grinding in a party and some one invited a lvl 44 chinese to the party and the xp we got droped low like 44xp per mob when before we were getting over 100 per mob this was regular mobs not party was quite awhile ago so memory lil hazy.

[Ygraine]

If it was so unbeneficial, why are all the higher levels (including legits) powerlevelling alts with a second PC? You still level faster that way than by legit grinding.

[Keeny]

hm, extremely interesting that JM actually intended to put in a level difference limit ... never thought they were that smart.

i'm totally in agreement with this, regardless of what's been done in the past. there is nothing more beneficial than people actually KNOWING how to use their character. i've never been powerleveled, and i never intend to be- i think it's one of the laziest things you could ever do, legit or not. and why in the world are people playing this game if they don't actually want to play this game? leveling up your character is part of the game, if you don't like it, play another game.

i would gladly sign some sort of petition or something. is there any other way to contact them? bug report?

[AkillerNXC]

Oh wow, I so never knew that.

/Agreed with keenypops

I don't care if your legit or not, if you get plvl'd then screw you. Yes, this includes myself, because I pfarmed/lvl'd a warlock on babel (well...20k sp and lvl 30 ;P). And its farking stupid.

The academy system isn't the problem, remove plvling= Academy system is fixed, no more problems. People with academys actually have to let them lvl up ALONE. Not put a bunch of gold bots in their academy. -.-

Yes but also you'd ose the ability to pfarm

Pfarming is stupid. Farm yourself, its easy. Only lazy nubs pfarm. -.-

[Fly]

Very hypocritical.

Everybody (except for few) including whoever started the thread has powerleveld before. Don't complain if you're taking advantage of it but don't want others to.

Just because you have participated in something before doesn't mean you shouldn't campaign for it's end, especially after seeing the negative effects on the game.

The fact is even the topic started has plvled/is plvling somebody. And his guild. And his union. It makes no sense to ask others to stop before stopping themselves.

Of course, I might be wrong, in that case, I'm sorry.

im not asking anyone to stop. im asking joymax to nip the problem in the butt before it gets out of hand which would make everyone stop at the exact same time.

powerleveling has not had a single good effect on the game. its just the legit version of botting at the moment.