Seal of Sun: how overpowered is it REALLY?

[h33r0yuy]

Many people have heard this, and many people will cite these numbers:

sos = +5
som = +10
sosun = +15

However, using sosun as an example, I am going to prove to you right now that it is not true. I am going to prove that this isn't merely untrue, but that sosun in particular IS really as insanely overpowered as everyone thinks. In fact, it may be even moreso than most people realize.

I'm going to use a somewhat simplified comparison, to eliminate many variables, and because I personally don't know formulas for damage beyond a particular stat.

The Scenario:

We will compare the maximum magical attack power of two chinese characters with 400 INT each. One character is holding a lvl 76 sosun sword, and one character is holding a lvl 85 sword. Both weapons have every stat at 50% and no blues. We will assume that in all other aspects the two characters are identical.

I will make three comparisons, first is the degree to which an 85 weapon would have to be enhanced (how many +) to be equivalent (and therefore equivalent damage due to all other variables being identical and therefore eliminated) to the sosun+0, second to be equivalent to a sosun+7, and third to a sosun+9.

The goal of these comparisons is to illustrate how much of a difference there really is between an 85 weapon and a 76 sosun.

Before we make any comparison, I will explain something:

- Why only magical attack power, and only INT?

It simplifies the comparison. I do not know how the game combines physical and magical attack power when a chinese character attacks, so I am going to eliminate one type of damage while still retaining a valid damage comparison. Because of the elimination of physical damage the comparison would only be evident in a nuke, which solely uses magical attack power. Since balance %'s, skill levels, and all other factors into the damage dealt by these two characters will be identical, the only remaining factor in the damage dealt remaining will be magical attack power, which uses two elements: the character's weapon and INT. Making INT constant between the two characters removes the final variable - leaving only the weapon.

The other reason for using magical attack power is that magical attack power, especially with an INT-based character, gives a higher "resolution" of comparison, because the numbers are higher, the ranges between minimums and maximums will be greater, giving us more numbers to work with, and making differences easier to see. If we were also to calculate percentage differences, it would provide us with more accuracy.

- Why MAXIMUM magical attack power?

Simple, it cuts the comparisons in half, and cuts the calculation time in half. The minimums should theoretically be at least approximately proportional to the maximum no matter the + or seal, so it shouldn't matter exactly what the minimum is. Also, by comparing the maximum damage, it eliminates attack rating from the list of factors in damage.

- Why 400 INT?
No reason, it's a nice round number that is close to a pure INT at lvl 90. The formula works out to be proportional in the end.

The Formula:

The formula for your character's magical attack power stats is:

Weapon's Magical Attack Power + (INT * Weapon's Magical Reinforce %)
(for those who are curious, physical damage uses an equivalent formula, just substitute STR for INT and Physical for Magical)

We can't compare the attack power stats on the weapon directly. As you can see, your character's attack power is based on the weapon's attack power and a combination of your stats and the weapon's reinforce stat. Therefore, we cannot just compare the weapons directly - we have to compare the values that they factor into.


Note: I do not know for sure how SRO deals with decimals, so I am going to leave them on the end of numbers. In practicality this will make no difference.

First Comparison:
(all data is from http://www.nivlam.com's weapon calculator.)

sosun 76+0:
2151 + (400 * 365.6%) = 3613.4
The lowest + on a 85 weapon that beats this magical attack power is:
85+11:
2365 + (400 * 324.7%) = 3663.8

Second Comparison:
NOTE THAT REINFORCE % DOES NOT CHANGE WITH +. this is the concept that makes sosun so powerful!

sosun 76+7:
2578 + (400 * 365.6%) = 4040.4
85+19:
2782 + (400 * 324.7%) = 4080.8

Third Comparison:

sosun 76+9:
2700 + (400 * 365.6%) = 4162.4
85+21:
2886 + (400 * 324.7%) = 4184.8

The Conclusion:

If sosun were equivalent to +15, then a sosun 76+9 should be equivalent to a 76+24. However, it is actually equivalent to a 85+21 sword. Obviously nobody would EVER make a +21 sword... it's statistically impossible. Even a max level weapon +9, thats right, +9, only matches a sosun +0, not to mention that, at least for chinese weapons, the crit on a sosun weapon will be higher than a normal weapon, giving sosun yet another advantage that is impossible for a normal weapon.

There's more.

We've answered this question: How high does a normal weapon have to be to match a sosun?

Let's answer THIS question now: Does a sosun 76 beat a degree 10 weapon?

let's find out.

lvl 90 +5 sword
(under all the same conditions as the weapons before)

2384 + (400 * 358.4%) = 3817.6

Ok, lets be fair. 450 INT, and +7.

2503 + (450 * 358.4%) = 4115.8

For reference, what was the 76 sosun+9 again?

2700 + (400 * 365.6%) = 4162.4


So,how overpowered is it REALLY? the numbers speak for themselves.

[Backfire]

Bravo... Thats pretty awesome . So now we know that the SoS = +5 / SoM = +10 / SoSun = +15 is all bull shit Good work

[.AWAKE.]

sosun = +15

[TukKertj]

what about the crit ?

[h33r0yuy]

sosun = +15

prove it.

i give you figures, you give me shit.

give me examples and formulas, with results that show not that the weapon's attack power is even close (i've just shown why that isn't enough), but that the character would do the same damage.


crit is simple: + doesnt affect crit at all. a sosun is the same crit range as a non-seal, except +3 crit, meaning if a weapon is (this figure is just an example, out of the blue) 9 crit (50%), then a sosun would be 12 crit (50%). i believe that a sos crit is +1, som +2, and sosun +3, but i dont know for sure. according to nivlam, though, euro weapons crit doesnt change at all with the seal.

[_SomeOne_]

no way! i thought sosun 76 was weaker then 85... thanks for pointing out the obvious

[BlackFox898]

what about the crit ?

crit is higher on the sox items but it really doesn't matter all that much.

[_SomeOne_]

what about the crit ?

crit is higher on the sox items but it really doesn't matter all that much.

not really.. euro sox is the same crit

[h33r0yuy]

no way! i thought sosun 76 was weaker then 85... thanks for pointing out the obvious

i wasnt pointing out that it was more powerful, if you read what i wrote you'd know that.

i was illustrating exactly HOW MUCH more powerful sosun 76 was.

[TukKertj]

sosun = +15

prove it.

i give you figures, you give me shit.

give me examples and formulas, with results that show not that the weapon's attack power is even close (i've just shown why that isn't enough), but that the character would do the same damage.


crit is simple: + doesnt affect crit at all. a sosun is the same crit range as a non-seal, except +3 crit, meaning if a weapon is (this figure is just an example, out of the blue) 9 crit (50%), then a sosun would be 12 crit (50%)

and what about the 0 % and the 100 % they are diferent ..

sun goes from 5-15/6 (not sure) and normal from 2-12

[Barotix]

no way! i thought sosun 76 was weaker then 85... thanks for pointing out the obvious

i wasnt pointing out that it was more powerful, if you read what i wrote you'd know that.

i was illustrating exactly HOW MUCH more powerful sosun 76 was.

Test different degrees then find the average + it takes for the first tier weapon of that degree to equal the sun version. Then we will know the true + equivalent of sun.

[Rainigul]

no way! i thought sosun 76 was weaker then 85... thanks for pointing out the obvious

lol yeah.

We want to know if sosun lv 64 is better than 85.
I'm pretty sure it isn't.

[h33r0yuy]

no way! i thought sosun 76 was weaker then 85... thanks for pointing out the obvious

lol yeah.

We want to know if sosun lv 64 is better than 85.
I'm pretty sure it isn't.

no way! i thought sosun 76 was weaker then 85... thanks for pointing out the obvious

i wasnt pointing out that it was more powerful, if you read what i wrote you'd know that.

i was illustrating exactly HOW MUCH more powerful sosun 76 was.

Test different degrees then find the average + it takes for the first tier weapon of that degree to equal the sun version. Then we will know the true + equivalent of sun.

ill do some more testing later. this post was due to boredom at work.

[Mango]

When people say that sosun = +15 then don't mean that it's equal to a weapon the same level+15, they mean that it is equal to a weapon that is 15 levels higher, which includes the reinforce. I thought that was pretty obvious but whatever. Your lvl 76+9 sosun you've used in your example is equal to a 91+9 sword in every way, of course it's better than a 90+7.

[William-CL]

sosun plain would actullay = about +19/+20 http://www.nivlam.com/ is you friend.

76 sosun= 76 +19/+20 Normal


That's pretty Farking strong imo. take a sun wep and +7 it, cause most people will, and you have a +27 compared to a normal wep. IMO they should nerf suns a bit, but not too much.

[h33r0yuy]

imo they should just remove suns entirely, som is powerful enough.

[Pan_Raider(`_´)]

^ that'd ruin all the gold buying concept, surely Jaymax wouldn't want that

[LillDev!l]

its weird overall...
for some reason a 68+5 with phy atack +31, has a higher phy atack then my 64+9, with phy +62...

and sun = overpowed like hell indeed, now proven once again aswell xD

[Hellraider]

Ya'll wont complain about sun damage if you HAVE a sun weapon

xD

[doomas]

And who said that sun is EXACTLY +15? It's just around +15, just a comparison.
For ex. try making a 1lvl +75wep (on nivlam ofc ^^) and notice the pathetic low dmg. Now try, let's say, 8lvl wep +69? See the difference? Dmg is higher, even though they both are 76 (1+75 and 8+68).
And of course sun is overpowered, that what makes it so special

[Zero_Doom]

My reply is pretty basic. The +15 is almost correct. Obviously, there is a slight difference as the difference between 64 and 80 is 16. Even still, the numbers are so close that most people wouldn't notice. Here is my proof, assuming that the information on nivlam is correct.




I used the variable +9 in the second pictures as that is a common number for most people (on the older servers) to achieve. As you can see, the +9 SOSUN has the same maximum physical damage as the 80 +9, which invariably means that it is possible that SOSUN does in fact equal +15.

[lilly_]

sosun = +15

prove it.

i give you figures, you give me shit.

give me examples and formulas, with results that show not that the weapon's attack power is even close (i've just shown why that isn't enough), but that the character would do the same damage.

Q. How much more powerful is a Seal of Star/Moon/Sun equipment in comparison to normal + bonus equipment?

Rare items each have differences in power so it is difficult to give an exact answer however in a normal approximate observation; a basic Seal of Star item will have at least a +7 equivalent value, a basic Seal of
Sun will have at least a +15 value. Seal of Moon items will occupy the middle values between the two.

Joymax have alrdy pointed this out........hope u didnt spent too long working this out rofl

Source: http://www.silkroadonline.net/sro_board ... =1&Page=63 (Daily Q&A 2/28 ~ 3/6)

[h33r0yuy]

My reply is pretty basic. The +15 is almost correct. Obviously, there is a slight difference as the difference between 64 and 80 is 16. Even still, the numbers are so close that most people wouldn't notice. Here is my proof, assuming that the information on nivlam is correct.




I used the variable +9 in the second pictures as that is a common number for most people (on the older servers) to achieve. As you can see, the +9 SOSUN has the same maximum physical damage as the 80 +9, which invariably means that it is possible that SOSUN does in fact equal +15.

look again, i think you're dyslexic. 1159 != 1195

and, once again, people totally ignore attack power = weapon's attack power + (stat * reinforce)

i will agree that it seems a sosun weapon seems to be about 15 lvls higher, but that is NOT +15.

+X is NOT +X levels. levels increase all stats on the weapon including reinforce, attack rating, and durability, + raises ONLY ATTACK POWER.

[F-22]

sosun = +15

prove it.

i give you figures, you give me shit.

give me examples and formulas, with results that show not that the weapon's attack power is even close (i've just shown why that isn't enough), but that the character would do the same damage.

Q. How much more powerful is a Seal of Star/Moon/Sun equipment in comparison to normal + bonus equipment?

Rare items each have differences in power so it is difficult to give an exact answer however in a normal approximate observation; a basic Seal of Star item will have at least a +7 equivalent value, a basic Seal of
Sun will have at least a +15 value. Seal of Moon items will occupy the middle values between the two.

Joymax have alrdy pointed this out........hope u didnt spent too long working this out rofl

Source: http://www.silkroadonline.net/sro_board ... =1&Page=63 (Daily Q&A 2/28 ~ 3/6)

most of the time joymax is wrong. lol

[LordRipp3r]

Q. How much more powerful is a Seal of Star/Moon/Sun equipment in comparison to normal + bonus equipment?

Rare items each have differences in power so it is difficult to give an exact answer however in a normal approximate observation; a basic
Seal of Star item will have at least a +7 equivalent value, a basic Seal of Sun will have at least a +15 value. Seal of Moon items will occupy the middle values between the two.

[NuclearSilo]

It's >= +15 because the more your lvl increase the more the power increased depends on the Int/Str. There is no exact value for it.

@F-22: f~uck u because u chose that avatar

[borat2]

go to http://www.nivlam.com and try it out its easier to compare then.

Sun is around +15 some even have stats of +17 weapons so yeah its overpowered.

[BalkanFanaticS]

noob its all about the reinforce

[Zero_Doom]

My reply is pretty basic. The +15 is almost correct. Obviously, there is a slight difference as the difference between 64 and 80 is 16. Even still, the numbers are so close that most people wouldn't notice. Here is my proof, assuming that the information on nivlam is correct.




I used the variable +9 in the second pictures as that is a common number for most people (on the older servers) to achieve. As you can see, the +9 SOSUN has the same maximum physical damage as the 80 +9, which invariably means that it is possible that SOSUN does in fact equal +15.

look again, i think you're dyslexic. 1159 != 1195

and, once again, people totally ignore attack power = weapon's attack power + (stat * reinforce)

i will agree that it seems a sosun weapon seems to be about 15 lvls higher, but that is NOT +15.

+X is NOT +X levels. levels increase all stats on the weapon including reinforce, attack rating, and durability, + raises ONLY ATTACK POWER.

Yea, wasn't paying close enough attention. Kind of only got a little sleep this morning, too much grinding I think. xD Anyways, if you figure that the two weapons have a 16 level difference in the first place, it is possible that it could reflect a 15 level increase.

Technically it could be said to be +15 from the basic NPC weapon, all the base stats are about the same or higher then the weapon that is 16 levels higher. The +9 variable that I threw on was to show the difference in damages as you increased the +X attribute.

[h33r0yuy]

Since there are a few new questions:

How does a sosun compare to a normal weapon of the same level?

I'm now going to compare a 76 sosun+0 to a 76 weapon, to show what + sosun is really equivalent to.

same exact scenario as the original post, except 76 weapon instead of 85 weapon.

sosun 76+0:
2151 + (400 * 365.6%) = 3613.4
76+29:
2536 + (400 * 271.7%) = 3622.8

And there you have that.

How does a 64 sosun compare with d9?

sosun 64+0:
1488 + (400 * 288.3%) = 2641.2
sosun 64+9:
1887 + (400 * 288.3%) = 3040.2
76+0:
1353 + (400 * 271.7%) = 2439.8
80+0:
1535 + (400 * 294.0%) = 2711
85+0:
1792 + (400 * 324.7%) = 3090.8

A plain sosun 64 weapon is better than a 76 weapon. It falls short of a tier 2... but a sosun+9 clearly is better than tier 2 plain (Although it is evident that if you had a lvl 80+4 or +5 it might beat out the sosun+9), and clearly falls just short of tier 3, lvl 85 weapon.

The verdict: sosun can be made more powerful than 2 tiers above the maximum tier of its degree. D8 sosun weapons can be used until level 85 without becoming obsolete.

just remember, +X is NOT +X levels.