Heuksai mastery does it help nuking dmg?

[penfold1992]

ok if heusukal mastery does something to nukes. prove it.

[Barotix]

Barotix, how you ever made mod status is beyond me. You seem to be incapable of refuting arguments without namecalling. Did you even make it beyond the first page of that thread?

On the last page, it mentions:
TotalDmg =
(((weapPhyPower + Str*phyReinforce + phySkillPower)*(1 + weapMastery) - phyDef) * phyBalance * skillMultiplier * phyBuff * multiplier)
+
(((weapMagPower + Int*magReinforce + magImbuePower)*(1 + forceMastery) - magDef) * magBalance * skillMultiplier * magBuff * multiplier)

Nowhere does it state there that this is for physical based attacks only, though the examples NS gives are indeed for physical based attacks since she tested it with a bow character. You want me to believe that the weapon's magical power is taken into account when I perform a chain attack, but the physical power is not taken into account when I cast a nuke? Other than assumptions, what do you base this on?

I did not call you any names. A chain is JUST physical, have you ever heard of imbue? The magical factor for that formula is the Imbue. did you even read my whole post? Did you just take the parts of the thread that support you and ignored the parts that refute your claims? That total damage is for Physical attacks + imbue, not nukes. Is that hard to understand?

The IMBUE (a magical based attack) adds the magic variables to the equation.
The PHYSICAL attack adds a physical variable to the equation.

You misunderstood the equation and thought you can apply it to both physical attacks and magical attacks. Your thread does not support your PoV because you're misunderstanding the information you present, so I'm gonna break it down. Read my bolded parts.

phy_base_dmg 2542~3037 This is from his Gear
phy_balance 106% This is from his balance
phy_skill_dmg 551~708(280%) Ghost spear Mars ^^ This is his PHYSICAL attack
mag_base_dmg 1609~1867 This is the IMBUE!
mag_balance 48% This is because he uses imbue
mag_skill_dmg Fire 484~806(100%) this is because he uses imbue
mag_mastery 80 this is because he uses imbue

Yes that is right, I have been saying it since the beginning but you seem to ignore that part and take the imbue as part of the whole attack. Disregard Imbue and you won't any magical variables, if you add Imbue then you have physical and magical variables. That is why you use both magical and physical when calculating that move but you don't with a nuke because it relies on Magical + Magical. Get it?

@Pen, he misunderstood the thread he linked to. Heuksal does nothing to nukes, the thread says otherwise and he simply read what he wanted to read then accidentally misinterpreted it to fit his theory. Quite a common mistake.

[phulshof]

Well, what I was planning to do is this:
Tomorrow I'll take my nuker into the Mangyang field, and cast plain lion shout (no imbue, no weapon) with and without clerical STR buff (36 points of STR with my cleric if I'm not mistaken). I'll do this a reasonable number of times, and write down all the results. I hope you'll accept lion shout rather than nukes, since the relative physical damage on a lion shout is a lot higher than on a nuke, so it should be easier to detect if it's there. Lion shout is a purely magical attack after all, so from an argument point of view it shouldn't make a difference. If I'm right, the damage should be higher on average with STR buffs than without. If I'm wrong, the numbers should be about the same on average. I'll happily admit I'm wrong if I am; I have no problem with that, but by now I really need to know the truth.

[phulshof]

I did not call you any names.

So far you've:
1. Accused me of a lack of basic reasoning.
2. Called me a lul (Dutch for dick/penis).

[Barotix]

Well, what I was planning to do is this:
Tomorrow I'll take my nuker into the Mangyang field, and cast plain lion shout (no imbue, no weapon) with and without clerical STR buff (36 points of STR with my cleric if I'm not mistaken). I'll do this a reasonable number of times, and write down all the results. I hope you'll accept lion shout rather than nukes, since the relative physical damage on a lion shout is a lot higher than on a nuke, so it should be easier to detect if it's there. Lion shout is a purely magical attack after all, so from an argument point of view it shouldn't make a difference. If I'm right, the damage should be higher on average with STR buffs than without. If I'm wrong, the numbers should be about the same on average. I'll happily admit I'm wrong if I am; I have no problem with that, but by now I really need to know the truth.

Phul, dude. I just read the post you got that from. NuclearSilo's post. Man Did you just read that part and ignore the rest?

HE DID TEST ON ATTACK + IMBUE! The imbue is MAGICAL, the attack is PHYSICAL! How hard is that to understand?!

Total dmg = mag+phy. You can't take a formula made for weapon skills and apply it to nukes. Did you read every part of the thread and notice the difference? THEY DID NOT ADD MAGICAL FACTORS TO THE FORMULA FOR PHYSICAL ATTACKS UNTIL AFTER THE IMBUE WAS ADDED! The way damage for nukes is calculated was understood due to it being magical + magical.

@phul... lul = lol and you are atm displaying a lack of those reasoning skills I speak of.

Another EDIT:
Did you see what that one formula was composed of? Two different formulas:

Formula : dmg = (base - def) * bal * skillmul * buff * multiplier

Formula = ((base + imbueDmg) * MasteryIncrease - def) * bal * skillmul * buff * constant_multiplier

When you add Imbue + Normal attack formula you get:

TotalDmg =
(((weapPhyPower + Str*phyReinforce + phySkillPower)*(1 + weapMastery) - phyDef) * phyBalance * skillMultiplier * phyBuff * multiplier)
+
(((weapMagPower + Int*magReinforce + magImbuePower)*(1 + forceMastery) - magDef) * magBalance * skillMultiplier * magBuff * multiplier)

You misunderstood the algebraic math Nuclear was throwing around.

[phulshof]

On the last page, it mentions:
TotalDmg =
(((weapPhyPower + Str*phyReinforce + phySkillPower)*(1 + weapMastery) - phyDef) * phyBalance * skillMultiplier * phyBuff * multiplier)
+
(((weapMagPower + Int*magReinforce + magImbuePower)*(1 + forceMastery) - magDef) * magBalance * skillMultiplier * magBuff * multiplier)

I did not call you any names. A chain is JUST physical, have you ever heard of imbue? The magical factor for that formula is the Imbue. did you even read my whole post? Did you just take the parts of the thread that support you and ignored the parts that refute your claims? That total damage is for Physical attacks + imbue, not nukes. Is that hard to understand?

Please look again at that formula. Do you notice the weapMagPower factor in there? Do you notice the Int*magReinforce factor? Those make up a character's magical attack power. They're in that formula, and you claim only for physical attacks. That means that according to you, a physical attack still uses the character's magical attack power, but a magical attack would not use the character's physical attack power. Why would this be the case?

As said: I will do some experiments tomorrow. If I'm wrong, I will happily admit it here; I have no problem with that.

[Barotix]

On the last page, it mentions:
TotalDmg =
(((weapPhyPower + Str*phyReinforce + phySkillPower)*(1 + weapMastery) - phyDef) * phyBalance * skillMultiplier * phyBuff * multiplier)
+
(((weapMagPower + Int*magReinforce + magImbuePower)*(1 + forceMastery) - magDef) * magBalance * skillMultiplier * magBuff * multiplier)

I did not call you any names. A chain is JUST physical, have you ever heard of imbue? The magical factor for that formula is the Imbue. did you even read my whole post? Did you just take the parts of the thread that support you and ignored the parts that refute your claims? That total damage is for Physical attacks + imbue, not nukes. Is that hard to understand?

Please look again at that formula. Do you notice the weapMagPower factor in there? Do you notice the Int*magReinforce factor? Those make up a character's magical attack power. They're in that formula, and you claim only for physical attacks. That means that according to you, a physical attack still uses the character's magical attack power, but a magical attack would not use the character's physical attack power. Why would this be the case?

As said: I will do some experiments tomorrow. If I'm wrong, I will happily admit it here; I have no problem with that.

NO! You took what I typed an read only what you wanted to read. I clearly stated that NO magical factors are involved when it is only the physical attack, or did you not read Nuclear's entire post?

Formula : dmg = (base - def) * bal * skillmul * buff * multiplier

Do you see the lack of reference to magical variables?

How about another formula:

damge from the formula =(BPhy-def*2+1)*phyBal*phyBuff*1.155
damge from the formula = (280 - 8*2 + 1) * 0.94 * 1.03 * 1.155 = 408

Do you see the lack of reference to magical variables?

Now add the IMBUE (a magical based attack) and that brings all those missing magical variables into play. Nuclear just plugged the whole equation in without solving and substituting.

damge from the formula =((BMag+ImbueDmg)*mastery)-def*2+1)*magBal*magBuff*1.155+phyDmg

Where did he get the physical damage from?
He got it from this formula:

damge from the formula =(BPhy-def*2+1)*phyBal*phyBuff*1.155

So when it is added together what do you get?

((BMag+ImbueDmg)*mastery)-def*2+1)*magBal*magBuff*1.155) + (BPhy-def*2+1)*phyBal*phyBuff*1.155

A total damage that involves magical and physical damage/buffs/reinforcement.

(((weapPhyPower + Str*phyReinforce + phySkillPower)*(1 + weapMastery) - phyDef) * phyBalance * skillMultiplier * phyBuff * multiplier)
+
(((weapMagPower + Int*magReinforce + magImbuePower)*(1 + forceMastery) - magDef) * magBalance * skillMultiplier * magBuff * multiplier)

If you remove the "plus" from that equation you get the formula for physical attacks and the formula for magical attacks:

Physical

(((weapPhyPower + Str*phyReinforce + phySkillPower)*(1 + weapMastery) - phyDef) * phyBalance * skillMultiplier * phyBuff * multiplier)

Magical

(((weapMagPower + Int*magReinforce + magImbuePower)*(1 + forceMastery) - magDef) * magBalance * skillMultiplier * magBuff * multiplier)

Together it allows you to determine damage for the physical attack (such as GSM) + the magical variables from imbue.

Do you understand how you misunderstood the math and why I accused you of lacking basic reasoning skills?

[phulshof]

The test I described above as the one I wanted to do tomorrow: would you agree that this would be enough to confirm whether I'm right or wrong? I will lion shout without a weapon, with and without clerical STR buff. If you're correct, the damage should be the same. I'll let you know the results as soon as I have them.

[Barotix]

The test I described above as the one I wanted to do tomorrow: would you agree that this would be enough to confirm whether I'm right or wrong? I will lion shout without a weapon, with and without clerical STR buff. If you're correct, the damage should be the same. I'll let you know the results as soon as I have them.

Whether you have a weapon or not is irrelevant because the magical attribute on the weapon is what effects the damage of lion shout. For the buffs it would skew damage because of the way ratios effect damage:

Magical and Physical balance are inversely proportioned. This means: As Physical balance goes up, magical balance goes down, thus reducing the power of magical attacks. Likewise: As Magical balance goes up, physical balance goes down, thus reducing the power of magical attacks. Do you understand why your test won't prove anything?

If the Magical balance is Lower, Magical attack damage will be lower. If the physical balance is lower, Physical attack damage would be lower. This is due to how the balance ratio is proportioned. Is it equally or inversely? All algebra. Which means it is very easy (even for people like nuclear silo) to misunderstand/interpret the arithmetic.

[alcoholic]

uhhhh woooo...... you guys went completly beyond my knowlege of the game....
anyways i couldnt get on silkroad becasue i have to redownload the clinet....
anyways if weapon mastery does increase nuke damage then isnt weapon nuke better then all force nuker??

[Barotix]

uhhhh woooo...... you guys went completly beyond my knowlege of the game....
anyways i couldnt get on silkroad becasue i have to redownload the clinet....
anyways if weapon mastery does increase nuke damage then isnt weapon nuke better then all force nuker??

Weapon mastery doesn't increase nuke damage. It was a misunderstanding in the arithmetic presented by Nuclearsilo.

[alcoholic]

uhhhh woooo...... you guys went completly beyond my knowlege of the game....
anyways i couldnt get on silkroad becasue i have to redownload the clinet....
anyways if weapon mastery does increase nuke damage then isnt weapon nuke better then all force nuker??

Weapon mastery doesn't increase nuke damage. It was a misunderstanding in the arithmetic presented by Nuclearsilo.

alright thx
and stop using words like arithmetic i dont understand....lol

[piootr]

Of course it doesn't nukes are only magical.... you need only to read their tooltip.

[phulshof]

Magical and Physical balance are inversely proportioned. This means: As Physical balance goes up, magical balance goes down, thus reducing the power of magical attacks. Likewise: As Magical balance goes up, physical balance goes down, thus reducing the power of magical attacks. Do you understand why your test won't prove anything?

As far as I know, physical balance is defined by my STR stat; magical balance by my INT stat. If I raise my STR stat without changing my INT stat, my physical balance will increase while my magical balance remains the same, but I will make that part of the test.

[Libertarian]

Barotix, how you ever made mod status is beyond me. You seem to be incapable of refuting arguments without namecalling. Did you even make it beyond the first page of that thread?

Learn to read before you start namecalling. There is NOTHING in the thread you linked to that agrees with you.

Weapon attack = purely physical

Imbue = purely magical

Nuke = purely magical

Weapon attack with imbue = physical + magical attack

The End.

[phulshof]

Barotix, how you ever made mod status is beyond me. You seem to be incapable of refuting arguments without namecalling.

Learn to read before you start namecalling.

We've already moved beyond that part. Turns out a typo Barotix made (lul in stead of lol) turned his word into an insult (lul = dick/penis in Dutch, usually used as an insult like asshole).

I'll try to test today if Barotix is correct. As said: I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong if the numbers support his position. I wanted to test it this morning, but forgot my nuker and cleric are on the same account, so I'll have to bring in my other account.

[magisuns]

nuke = mag... duh

[-.-]

its easy enough to prove nuke is all mag attack :s get lv 1 icewall... you can nuke at it all day and it wont go away unless you use weapon to attack it

[phulshof]

You are correct. I haven't been able to do the test I wanted yet, but some other tests do prove it.
I was right about the balance: physical balance is determined by STR, magical balance by INT. Adding STR via a buff does not influence your magical balance.
I was wrong about the damage. I misread NuclearSilo's post, and therefore apologize for keeping this thread open so long. I'll have to reconsider some things about my character build then.

Barotix, feel free to clean up the thread, and leave my statement about being wrong about the damage.

[emperor3000]

yeah phulshof, when you test it out, try it on lv 1 firewall and lv 1 icewall, since they tend to be "without defense", so your protector type or any buff won't interfere with it.