Joymax approves 1* Poppers?

[nightbloom]

:3 Fun.

I kinda have given up trying to make people stop, but, I'll always attempt to make them see why it is wrong, why it gives themselves a bad name, etc. It's their choice if they don't care about the effects. But it does lower my opinion of them as gamers.

Just taking Ryoko as an example here, but I think he's a great guy. Couldn't be more friendly and nice. He's a great admin, fun to talk to, real nice guild leader too. But the fact that he actually goes and 1* pops after all the nice stuff greatly reduces my willingness to want to have anything to do with him in-game. I certainly can seperate person from gamer, but I can't understand how the two can be so conflicting in nature. And unfortunately I can't deal with having ingame friends who do bad things to other players, nor will I allow myself to be seen in any position of support for them, whether it be a guild tag, or standing right there with them in a thief suit. It's just not my cuppa. :]

You are taking a moral stance on something that occurs virtually, to little pixelated people, rubber stamped as legal by SRO's ruling diety (JoyMax) and then deeming that as suffient grounds for flinging off your loyalty to someone you admit is a great person and from whom you have comfortably recieved welcome in his virtual home.... What you just said is the SRO version of, "Sure we can have sex...but uhhh..I dont wanna be seen with you in public."

You and me, we have very different ideas of friendship.

[SuicideGrl]

You are taking a moral stance on something that occurs virtually, to little pixelated people, rubber stamped as legal by SRO's ruling diety (JoyMax) and then deeming that as suffient grounds for flinging off your loyalty to someone you admit is a great person and from whom you have comfortably recieved welcome in his virtual home.... What you just said is the SRO version of, "Sure we can have sex...but uhhh..I dont wanna be seen with you in public."

You and me, we have very different ideas of friendship.

i stay out of this thread, but i decided to see how it had gained 5 pages in 3 days.

nightbloom, i think what moogie is suggesting is that uncovering something unpleasant about someone's character can sully an otherwise favorable impresion of them. imagine if you had total respect for a person and then found out they were into child pornography or something. wouldn't you alter your perception of that individual?

you have made a clear distinction between what one does in real life and what one does in-game. i say that that is nonsense. in my experience, there are three types of gamers: gamers who play their characters exactly the way they live their lives, gamers who play their characters the way they WISH they could live their lives, and gamers who deliberately play their characters contrary to the way they live their lives. the latter is rare, and is usually only found in a person who likes the role-play challenge of it; this is the type of person probably knows that if that's what they're after, MMORPGs aren't the way to go. i'm not ruling out the possibility of the 3rd type here, just saying it's less likely.

that leaves two types: people who play their characters they way they live, and people who play the way they want to live. in both of these cases, it becomes clear that people's actions in-game are in some way based on reality. in the first case, a popper does what he does because he is generally a selfish person. he knows what he wants and does what he needs to do to get it, regardless of consequences to any but himself. in the 2nd case, the popper pops remorselessly because he would never have the balls to do something like that in real life. vicarious sadism, in a way.

my point is that it's not illogical to associate someone's in-game actions with their RL personality; on the contrary, i feel they are directly linked, in the ways outlined above. therefore, it is completely appropriate for Moogie to lose respect for someone she previously held in high regard as a result of something they've done in-game.

EDIT: i have enjoyed the logical tête-à-tête... keep it up, even if i don't follow along, as i tend to avoid this discussion.

[nightbloom]

You are taking a moral stance on something that occurs virtually, to little pixelated people, rubber stamped as legal by SRO's ruling diety (JoyMax) and then deeming that as suffient grounds for flinging off your loyalty to someone you admit is a great person and from whom you have comfortably recieved welcome in his virtual home.... What you just said is the SRO version of, "Sure we can have sex...but uhhh..I dont wanna be seen with you in public."

You and me, we have very different ideas of friendship.

i stay out of this thread, but i decided to see how it had gained 5 pages in 3 days.

nightbloom, i think what moogie is suggesting is that uncovering something unpleasant about someone's character can sully an otherwise favorable impresion of them. imagine if you had total respect for a person and then found out they were into child pornography or something. wouldn't you alter your perception of that individual?

you have made a clear distinction between what one does in real life and what one does in-game. i say that that is nonsense. in my experience, there are three types of gamers: gamers who play their characters exactly the way they live their lives, gamers who play their characters the way they WISH they could live their lives, and gamers who deliberately play their characters contrary to the way they live their lives. the latter is rare, and is usually only found in a person who likes the role-play challenge of it; this is the type of person probably knows that if that's what they're after, MMORPGs aren't the way to go. i'm not ruling out the possibility of the 3rd type here, just saying it's less likely.

that leaves two types: people who play their characters they way they live, and people who play the way they want to live. in both of these cases, it becomes clear that people's actions in-game are in some way based on reality. in the first case, a popper does what he does because he is generally a selfish person. he knows what he wants and does what he needs to do to get it, regardless of consequences to any but himself. in the 2nd case, the popper pops remorselessly because he would never have the balls to do something like that in real life. vicarious sadism, in a way.

my point is that it's not illogical to associate someone's in-game actions with their RL personality; on the contrary, i feel they are directly linked, in the ways outlined above. therefore, it is completely appropriate for Moogie to lose respect for someone she previously held in high regard as a result of something they've done in-game.

EDIT: i have enjoyed the logical tête-à-tête... keep it up, even if i don't follow along, as i tend to avoid this discussion.

Err you compare one star popping to discovering your friend is into child pornography? Because that would sully ANYONE'S perception of a person. But 1 star popping isn't child pornography... Child pornography is universally illegal and damaging in rl. One star popping is not illegal and not damaging. It's more like deer hunting. It's legal, some people don't like it. If you dont like it, dont do it. But I can't see staying in someone's home, making it practically your own residence, being given rights above other members of the household yet saying that your deer hunter patron is the equivalent of a salacious baby raper because of his perfectly legal and generally socially acceptable leisure activity.

[SuicideGrl]

Err you compare one star popping to discovering your friend is into child pornography? Because that would sully ANYONE'S perception of a person. But 1 star popping isn't child pornography... Child pornography is universally illegal and damaging in rl. One star popping is not illegal and not damaging. It's more like deer hunting. It's legal, some people don't like it. If you dont like it, dont do it. But I can't see staying in someone's home, making it practically your own residence, being given rights above other members of the household yet saying that your deer hunter patron is the equivalent of a salacious baby raper because of his perfectly legal and generally socially acceptable leisure activity.

<sigh>

i knew you were going to assume i was equating 1*-popping w/ child pornography. do you actually think that's what i meant? i was offering an example of something that, if discovered, would change your perception of someone. please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that i think they're even REMOTELY similar.

now, deer hunting is a MUCH better example, and i thank you for it. however, if i was a resident in a household which was headed by a deer hunter, and i myself abhorred the practice, i would think that i would still be within my rights to protest it, and yes even make it publicly known that i do not support the actions of the one in question, regardless of whether or not i had been given certain rights and priveliges by that person. if i HAD been given those rights, it was for a reason, and anyone with any sort of ethics or integrity would not remove those rights just because our opinions differed on certain issues.

[nightbloom]

Err you compare one star popping to discovering your friend is into child pornography? Because that would sully ANYONE'S perception of a person. But 1 star popping isn't child pornography... Child pornography is universally illegal and damaging in rl. One star popping is not illegal and not damaging. It's more like deer hunting. It's legal, some people don't like it. If you dont like it, dont do it. But I can't see staying in someone's home, making it practically your own residence, being given rights above other members of the household yet saying that your deer hunter patron is the equivalent of a salacious baby raper because of his perfectly legal and generally socially acceptable leisure activity.

<sigh>

i knew you were going to assume i was equating 1*-popping w/ child pornography. do you actually think that's what i meant? i was offering an example of something that, if discovered, would change your perception of someone. please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that i think they're even REMOTELY similar.

now, deer hunting is a MUCH better example, and i thank you for it. however, if i was a resident in a household which was headed by a deer hunter, and i myself abhorred the practice, i would think that i would still be within my rights to protest it, and yes even make it publicly known that i do not support the actions of the one in question, regardless of whether or not i had been given certain rights and priveliges by that person. if i HAD been given those rights, it was for a reason, and anyone with any sort of ethics or integrity would not remove those rights just because our opinions differed on certain issues.

You would think that those same ethics and integrity would also go towards not biting the hand that feeds. You portray yourself as the underling in a company who has legal practices that you find morally corrupt, yet find the thought of losing your position of power bestowed by that company to be unthinkable. That is an ethics problem that any first year student can solve.

And yes, you can say, "No thanks, I dont like deer hunting." But that is not what is going on here. You are basically picketing outside the house, friends of yours are prank calling him, newspaper articles are being written, thinly veiled attacks on his moral fibre are being heaped and he's been jumped a few times by your fellow activists.

And all the while you say he should remain impartial and unjudgemental HERE while you feel no obligation to do the same? Regardless of what you say, I think Ryoko has you all beat hands down in the ethics and integrity department. He'll probably PM me and yell at me for defending him with such ferocity. LOL

[SuicideGrl]

You would think that those same ethics and integrity would also go towards not biting the hand that feeds. You portray yourself as the underling in a company who has legal practices that you find morally corrupt, yet find the thought of losing your position of power bestowed by that company to be unthinkable. That is an ethics problem that any first year student can solve.

And yes, you can say, "No thanks, I dont like deer hunting." But that is not what is going on here. You are basically picketing outside the house, friends of yours are prank calling him, newspaper articles are being written, thinly veiled attacks on his moral fibre are being heaped and he's been jumped a few times by your fellow activists.

And all the while you say he should remain impartial and unjudgemental HERE while you feel no obligation to do the same? Regardless of what you say, I think Ryoko has you all beat hands down in the ethics and integrity department. He'll probably PM me and yell at me for defending him with such ferocity. LOL

excuse me, nightbloom.... but when did i do any of the things you mentioned? say any of the things you mentioned? even assert my opinion at all in the last 7+ pages? the only other time i'ver posted on this thread was the following, on Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:16 pm:

.....don't you all think that 8 pages on this topic is enough?

... did i miss something? i interjected into this debate to present a clearly logical argument. never once did i assert my opinoin on the subject in any way. i have not picketed, paraded, threatened, attacked, jumped, or even scoffed, poo-pooed, or shaken my head sadly. i have my opinions, but i don't light a signal fire and get up on a soap box. i have lots of friends in SRO. some pop. most don't. but for you to assert that I, me, personally, myself, have done any of the things you mentioned.... where are you getting your information, deary? are you accusing me of something here? and with what proof? please quote for me exactly what i have said, or provide evidence of things i've done, that have caused you to form these opinions.

i support Ryoko as an admin, and fulfill my duties as a mod, with NO thought towhat he does in-game. Stacie != Ryoko. there's an equation any 1st year CS student could understand.

as far as the "first year ethics problem" you mentioned is concerned, i see no issue, since, as i have said, i have not judged. i don't expect ryoko to remain nonjudgemental when i myself am judging, because again, i have not judged.

please refrain from personal attacks and let's return to the logical debate that i was so enjoying. kkthxbbi.

EDIT: i CHALLENGE you to find ONE person in all of Xian, SRF, or the entire SRO world that would call into question MY integrity. those in glass houses...

[torraC]

nightbloom is a man.

[nightbloom]

LOL!!!!

I do not parade morality and integrity as some kind of election banner, nor do I care if others find me so. I am not. A poll in Xian would only prove that I suk at "making nice" with anyone I don't like or respect. The "don't like or respect" catagory is a vast one. I have a big mouth and I am not afraid to use it, but this isnt about me.

Guilds in your Union, which you are the leader of, have declared Ryoko's guild and person to be KOS. Do I think you did it? Nope... But you have this habit of being knowledgable about things that happen then making soothing, capitulating noises about it afterwards. You are never seen as the opposition because you never openly oppose. You say things like, "I like you personally, but....." The truth of the matter is that Ryoko gets openly harrassed by your Union. Not by you personally. I mean of course not! But you must see how you, as the leader, partake of that responsibility.

You probably wont be able to refrain from responding, but I won't any further, cause I dont really care to get too far into this in public. Ryoko isnt going to like how much have I have said already. I may not be brimfull of ethics and integrity but I am fiercely loyal to those that deserve it.

[SuicideGrl]

taken from the BlackHand allaince private forum at Silkroadsource.com:

this is Farking madness.

making innocent people suffer is NOT what the BHA is about. none of stacie's guildmates did anything wrong. if they yelled at (EDITED) for thinking that he had stacie killed, who do you think TOLD them that? if it was stacie, and HE deserves the blame for misleading them. they did whay they could with the information they were given.

killing innocent people is exactly WHY this union is anti-1*-popping to begin with. what has HAPPENED to you guys?

i don't see you or anyone else in this alliance ACTIVELY HUNTING DOWN any other known poppers in this game. that's a double-standard if i ever heard one. why don't you set your sights on (EDITED)??

all of these people are confessed poppers. many union members have fallen prey to them. who from this alliance has fallen to shadowhawk? if any have, they have not made me aware of it. clearly, their "hatred" of us doesn't extend to that particular brand of cruelty.

if you're serious, and this is REALLY a vendetta against poppers, then every one of you should go down the list i just named and kill them all as well. they deserve EVERY BIT AS MUCH malice as SH or anyone else does. but to direct your hatred against them alone... what is that? cowardice? because you can kill them, they get your mercilessness? and if they were all lvl70? would you all be such brave crusaders for 1* rights then?

seems like hypocrisy to me. wanna know what i think? i think this all stems from STUPID, PETTY, SELFISH GRUDGES that many current and former SD's have against stacie himself left over from when he was in the guild, and vice versa on his part. clearly this hatred is SO STRONG, that the new people in SD have been tainted by it, and it has NOTHING TO DO with them in the first place. it's just like racist parents teaching racism to their kids, who pass it on in perpetuity. no one remembers why they hate anymore. they just do. sure, the old school members of SD have a reason to have a grudge. but if that's the case, KEEP IT PERSONAL. infecting others with your hatred is low.

i know this sounds harsh, but i love you guys, and i'm the type of person to tell friends what they NEED to hear, not what they WANT to hear. i've said my peace. i think you all need to get over it - and yourselves.

i'm done.

.....you do realise that this is only gong to make it worse.

this is going to take something that until this point was kept relatively private - him talking about us behind our backs and vice versa - and make it public. there's going to be fallout from this. i think you guys are sick, and getting some kind of twisted pleasure in hunting this guy down, and i won't lie when i say i think you're only doing it because you know you can kill him with no problem. if he were your lvl (EDITED), i doubt you'd be playing these little schoolgirl games. you'd know you had a good fight on your hands, and you'd not be globalling and flaming (because that's what you're doing here).

an event? an event to kill one person? when xBlueMule murdered ITHURIEL, we all hunted him down every time he was online and a murderer. but no one made a guild post about an "event". and if anyone deserves this union's hatred, it's him.

to clarify: stacie knows that if i ever see him popping, he dies. it's not that i wouldn't kill him. i just think you guys are taking this about 1000x too far.

i too am leaving this thread. you guys do what you want to do, but i would like to ask you to PLEASE remember that what you do, say, and how you act reflects on this whole union, which at my last count has over 100 people in it. if you start behaving in a way that gives us a bad name... i'm not going to threaten. i jus hope we all conduct ourselves with the decorum that has won our union so much respect thus far.

take that and eat it. i am OPENLY opposed to the way that Stacie and his guild are being treated. so before you imply that i play both sides of the field, read. and then read again. i cannot control the actions of the 150+ people in my union. all i can do is say my piece, and leave it at that. i made my feelings openly known. but i am only one preson, and i don't run my guild - or union - like a dictatorship. one does what one can, and what one must. and that's as much as one can do.

i am loyal to my union above all else. i disgree with what they are doing, but they are MY brothers- and sisters-in-arms. i will not - and will never - stab them in the back for ANYONE, friend or foe.

and even though you said you won't be coming back to read this, i know in my heart of hearts you will. and i hope you agree that you owe me an apology.

[Ryoko]

You and me, we have very different ideas of friendship.

NB is a great friend. People always have something to say about her, so heres mine.

I know nightbloom would never intentionally hurt me, or, say something retarded like "your a great friend but I'll kill you if....."

Never so obsessed with a concept, that she would sacrafice friendships and hurt others in lesser known ways, to do what was 'thought' as the right thing

When in all reality, treating people poorly, because you don't approve of something, makes you no better.

And in my book, no matter how pure or moral anyone is, friendship, and how people treat me - will always be more important to me.

And if people think, that a 'kill count' game, wispers or a screenshot makes them a better person than I, you have already lost, and I feel bad for you.

r0t1 - You rock man.

[bambski]

nightbloom, herassments has nothing to with 1* popping or anything such, it has to do with <edit> being paranoid telling my friends in her guild that I got a high lvl hunter to kill her so I could take her loot. Sure I was out there. I was there to help union mates that got jacked, I was also in thiefsuit, I am against 1* popping but I don't care if people do it really, its their choice. I do not like though when people act nice to you, but talk shit about your guild union behind your back and shit about me, when I think we're friends...we've never seen ShadowHawk as a enemy, but obviously we've been a big enemy for a long time without us knowing it.

Go on with your 1* popping I don't care, but don't talk shit about people just because your pissed that SuddenDeath is back and running.

SuicideGrl has nothing to do with this.

sry for going a bit of topic.


this is the 3rd time im posting this, pls dont remove it.

[bambski]

First of all, <edit> is a friend she only played on sunday nights, she wasn't brought to SD cause she wasnt active enough back then.

I'm actually not the one upset about the job issue, you got pissed about being killed by some random BlessCastle member that I didnt know and of course you had to blame your death on someone:)

sure do ban me from this forum if it makes you feel any better, I also think you should consider what you say to people.

I don't know why your holding a grudge against me for joining SuddenDeath instead of your guild, maybe cause you had/have enemies in here?

<edit>, this would be alot easier if YOU just talked about it with me instead of telling all on your friendlist your heart is broken.


pls dont delete this too<3

[nightbloom]

If you ever need me, I have the delightfully unethical and nonintegrity filled Avalon to help. ~grin~ That is what makes us so great. We dont confuse friendships with in game morals. We like Ryoko just the way he is.

[Ryoko]

Stacie, this would be alot easier if YOU just talked about it with me instead of telling all on your friendlist your heart is broken.

Is that a joke?

After how you guys have acted in the last week, I don't really want anything to do with you.

In all reality, I don't think the entire forum cares if I told my guild, that a hunter killed me and someone took my loot.

Honestly.

[bambski]

im not the one who brought it onto the forums YOU did;)

[Fly]

bah, ever since i saw stacies boobs... we have been very good friends

no matter what he does, im cool with him. true friends accept all the bad about a person and remain friends. if he ever needs help, he knows where to find me.

peace

[nightbloom]

Frustrating... FRUSTRATING.

See Ryoko, I tell you all the time that I hate people. I like individuals, but as a whole, I hate ppl.

[bambski]

this aint gaming, im taking back what ever Ive caused, cause this has hurt many people, and its a game, not real life matters.

ive sung my song, now its up to you if u want it to go on.

[Gao Yao]

okay your all nubs stfu and play the game people play it differnt. so grow some balls and than come talk to me

[Draquish]

[PigDestroyer]

You are taking a moral stance on something that occurs virtually, to little pixelated people, rubber stamped as legal by SRO's ruling diety (JoyMax) and then deeming that as suffient grounds for flinging off your loyalty to someone you admit is a great person and from whom you have comfortably recieved welcome in his virtual home.... What you just said is the SRO version of, "Sure we can have sex...but uhhh..I dont wanna be seen with you in public."

You and me, we have very different ideas of friendship.

i stay out of this thread, but i decided to see how it had gained 5 pages in 3 days.

nightbloom, i think what moogie is suggesting is that uncovering something unpleasant about someone's character can sully an otherwise favorable impresion of them. imagine if you had total respect for a person and then found out they were into child pornography or something. wouldn't you alter your perception of that individual?

you have made a clear distinction between what one does in real life and what one does in-game. i say that that is nonsense. in my experience, there are three types of gamers: gamers who play their characters exactly the way they live their lives, gamers who play their characters the way they WISH they could live their lives, and gamers who deliberately play their characters contrary to the way they live their lives. the latter is rare, and is usually only found in a person who likes the role-play challenge of it; this is the type of person probably knows that if that's what they're after, MMORPGs aren't the way to go. i'm not ruling out the possibility of the 3rd type here, just saying it's less likely.

that leaves two types: people who play their characters they way they live, and people who play the way they want to live. in both of these cases, it becomes clear that people's actions in-game are in some way based on reality. in the first case, a popper does what he does because he is generally a selfish person. he knows what he wants and does what he needs to do to get it, regardless of consequences to any but himself. in the 2nd case, the popper pops remorselessly because he would never have the balls to do something like that in real life. vicarious sadism, in a way.

my point is that it's not illogical to associate someone's in-game actions with their RL personality; on the contrary, i feel they are directly linked, in the ways outlined above. therefore, it is completely appropriate for Moogie to lose respect for someone she previously held in high regard as a result of something they've done in-game.

EDIT: i have enjoyed the logical tête-à-tête... keep it up, even if i don't follow along, as i tend to avoid this discussion.

Err you compare one star popping to discovering your friend is into child pornography? Because that would sully ANYONE'S perception of a person. But 1 star popping isn't child pornography... Child pornography is universally illegal and damaging in rl. One star popping is not illegal and not damaging. It's more like deer hunting. It's legal, some people don't like it. If you dont like it, dont do it. But I can't see staying in someone's home, making it practically your own residence, being given rights above other members of the household yet saying that your deer hunter patron is the equivalent of a salacious baby raper because of his perfectly legal and generally socially acceptable leisure activity.

Not to take away from the "Days Of Our Lives" soap opera b.s. but, - Excuse me,...did anyone stop and consider how the ..... deer felt?

Advocates love to leave that part out......

[r0t1]

me too =D, didn't bother to read, browsed through and saw my name in ryoko's post o_O
what's that about? you mean my post on "Once you pop, you can't stop." ? 'cause i took it from a old pringles advertisement lol.

Edit to add:

To LauHuaXiang aka OSF: if you're reading this, iKillers won't stop 1* popping no matter how many hunter patrols you do. the map is too big for you to patrol everywhere =D and we're thieves, we go guerilla warfare which i believe in LauHuaXiang's terms = cowards? not some OH-SO-HONORABLE 1v1 lame fights for thieves to gain arrange points.
haha.

[Ryoko]

Yes I know its from pringles.

Funny guy >_>

I like sour cream and onion pringles.

[nightbloom]

Not to take away from the "Days Of Our Lives" soap opera b.s. but, - Excuse me,...did anyone stop and consider how the ..... deer felt?

Advocates love to leave that part out......

~slaps forehead~ You hardly lose more than 20K, you hardly lose more than .002%, sure, it's frustrating, but being a low level among level 64+'s is just going to be frustrating. When you get higher level you will understand more unless you plan on sailing SRO's seas on the Good Ship Lollipop. I personally dont one star pop. Why? Cause I can find 20K gold on the ground in the caves, so one star popping is a waste of my time. But for a midlevel char, that 20K is a lot more useful.

And if comes down to the life of the deer or the life of the hunter, the hunter wins, cause in SRO the game is set up as "might makes right". Rail against the injustice all you like, but it's a level based game and those levels are hard won.

[SuicideGrl]

And if comes down to the life of the deer or the life of the hunter, the hunter wins, cause in SRO the game is set up as "might makes right". Rail against the injustice all you like, but it's a level based game and those levels are hard won.

QYF, gg on that one. 10pts.

[nightbloom]

Oh and I wanted to point this out...

nightbloom, i think what moogie is suggesting is that uncovering something unpleasant about someone's character can sully an otherwise favorable impresion of them. imagine if you had total respect for a person and then found out they were into child pornography or something. wouldn't you alter your perception of that individual?

you have made a clear distinction between what one does in real life and what one does in-game. i say that that is nonsense. in my experience, there are three types of gamers: gamers who play their characters exactly the way they live their lives, gamers who play their characters the way they WISH they could live their lives, and gamers who deliberately play their characters contrary to the way they live their lives. the latter is rare, and is usually only found in a person who likes the role-play challenge of it; this is the type of person probably knows that if that's what they're after, MMORPGs aren't the way to go. i'm not ruling out the possibility of the 3rd type here, just saying it's less likely.

that leaves two types: people who play their characters they way they live, and people who play the way they want to live. in both of these cases, it becomes clear that people's actions in-game are in some way based on reality. in the first case, a popper does what he does because he is generally a selfish person. he knows what he wants and does what he needs to do to get it, regardless of consequences to any but himself. in the 2nd case, the popper pops remorselessly because he would never have the balls to do something like that in real life. vicarious sadism, in a way.

my point is that it's not illogical to associate someone's in-game actions with their RL personality; on the contrary, i feel they are directly linked, in the ways outlined above. therefore, it is completely appropriate for Moogie to lose respect for someone she previously held in high regard as a result of something they've done in-game.

EDIT: i have enjoyed the logical tête-à-tête... keep it up, even if i don't follow along, as i tend to avoid this discussion.

I put in bold just a few of your illogical opinions that are not just critisms, they are open attacks on someone's character. According to you, Ryoko is either insensitively selfish or a "vicarious sadist". And that these are somehow "unpleasant things about his personality". You then turn around a few post's later and insist that:

excuse me, nightbloom.... but when did i do any of the things you mentioned? say any of the things you mentioned? even assert my opinion at all in the last 7+ pages? the only other time i'ver posted on this thread was the following, on Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:16 pm:

.....don't you all think that 8 pages on this topic is enough?

... did i miss something? i interjected into this debate to present a clearly logical argument. never once did i assert my opinoin on the subject in any way. i have not picketed, paraded, threatened, attacked, jumped, or even scoffed, poo-pooed, or shaken my head sadly. i have my opinions, but i don't light a signal fire and get up on a soap box. i have lots of friends in SRO. some pop. most don't. but for you to assert that I, me, personally, myself, have done any of the things you mentioned.... where are you getting your information, deary? are you accusing me of something here? and with what proof? please quote for me exactly what i have said, or provide evidence of things i've done, that have caused you to form these opinions.

i support Ryoko as an admin, and fulfill my duties as a mod, with NO thought towhat he does in-game. Stacie != Ryoko. there's an equation any 1st year CS student could understand.

as far as the "first year ethics problem" you mentioned is concerned, i see no issue, since, as i have said, i have not judged. i don't expect ryoko to remain nonjudgemental when i myself am judging, because again, i have not judged.

please refrain from personal attacks and let's return to the logical debate that i was so enjoying. kkthxbbi.

EDIT: i CHALLENGE you to find ONE person in all of Xian, SRF, or the entire SRO world that would call into question MY integrity. those in glass houses...

You are judging. You are using a thiefing tactic deemed legal by the people who made the game and calling people "flawed, selfish and sadistic" for availing themselves of that opportunity. Those are judgements, assertions of something believed. The fact is that JoyMax says one star popping is not a flaw, a bug or an exploit and therefor a legal part of the job title "thief".

[Ryoko]

im not the one who brought it onto the forums YOU did;)

No I didnt. Read thoroughly please.

<edit>, this would be alot easier if YOU just talked about it with me instead of telling all on your friendlist your heart is broken.

The ignorance!

I dont HAVE to talk to you. I dont answer to you. You are some guy in a video game.

Tell my friends list? I talked to my guild.

Get out of my house.

[Moogie]

:3 Fun.

I kinda have given up trying to make people stop, but, I'll always attempt to make them see why it is wrong, why it gives themselves a bad name, etc. It's their choice if they don't care about the effects. But it does lower my opinion of them as gamers.

Just taking Ryoko as an example here, but I think he's a great guy. Couldn't be more friendly and nice. He's a great admin, fun to talk to, real nice guild leader too. But the fact that he actually goes and 1* pops after all the nice stuff greatly reduces my willingness to want to have anything to do with him in-game. I certainly can seperate person from gamer, but I can't understand how the two can be so conflicting in nature. And unfortunately I can't deal with having ingame friends who do bad things to other players, nor will I allow myself to be seen in any position of support for them, whether it be a guild tag, or standing right there with them in a thief suit. It's just not my cuppa. :]

You are taking a moral stance on something that occurs virtually, to little pixelated people, rubber stamped as legal by SRO's ruling diety (JoyMax) and then deeming that as suffient grounds for flinging off your loyalty to someone you admit is a great person and from whom you have comfortably recieved welcome in his virtual home.... What you just said is the SRO version of, "Sure we can have sex...but uhhh..I dont wanna be seen with you in public."

You and me, we have very different ideas of friendship.

Just wanted to make sure you realise here that what I was saying is I do not like people any less for what they decide to do ingame. It just makes me not want to play with them. They remain friends outside of the game, even if what they do confuses me greatly. I think you misunderstood, so hopefully you understand now.

I don't know about Sui's opinion on person/player, but I'll say it again: I keep seperate RL from ingame. So I am absolutely not flinging away any loyalty that really matters, unless you consider little pixellated guildtags "loyalties".


Edit: Hilarious. No matter how many times you tell someone you keep RL/Game seperate, they will still turn around and think you hate them in RL. Wake up...

[Ryoko]

Compare.

no matter what he does, im cool with him. true friends accept all the bad about a person and remain friends. if he ever needs help, he knows where to find me.

to clarify: stacie knows that if i ever see him popping, he dies.

[SuicideGrl]

....so much for not replaying to me anymore. man, did i call THAT one.

please reread my original post. better yet, i'll quote it. pay extra attention the the bolded part.

nightbloom, i think what moogie is suggesting is that uncovering something unpleasant about someone's character can sully an otherwise favorable impresion of them. imagine if you had total respect for a person and then found out they were into child pornography or something. wouldn't you alter your perception of that individual?

yeah, you did read that right this time. it says that that's what i thought moogie was suggesting. MY opinion appears.... where? oh yeah. nowhere. sorry to bother you w/ that one. next time i'll try to actually have a flaw in my logic, so you don't look silly trying to invent them.

as to the "vicarious sadist" comment - a) i never referred to Ryoko as one. i referred to the type of gamer who plays their character like an asshole because they don't have the balls to do so in real life a vicarious sadist. which, i might add, is clearly stated in my statement in the post you so kindly quoted for our readers. nowhere in any of that did i lump Ryoko into ANY of my categories, did i now? RIGHT AGAIN! i made no such judgement. b) since this is a THREAD about 1*-popping, i used the hot topic - poppers - to illuminate this theory. feel free to substitute the words "KSer", "scammer", "botter", "griefer", etc. in place of that word. it applies to all of them. regardless of your - or my - stance on popping, the fact can NOT be disputed that it does cause SOME grief to SOME people, and as such it can clearly be described in the same manner as the other words in that list i just enumerated.

the average person isn't picking apart my words trying to find ways to discredit me, so i didn't think this had to be overtly stated. clearly, i underestimated your desire to make me look bad. forgive me. next time i'll endeavour to make sure that even those of us who are overanalyzing what i say are satisfied with the vaguity of my responses.

despite your efforts to the contrary, you're not going to be able to turn my words around on me to make me seem like i don't like ryoko, that i have judged him, or that i'm some kind of idiot, which is what you seem to be trying to do. not sure why you're personally attacking me, since i've done nothing to you. until now, i had considered us friendly. but if you wish to bandy words and wits, be my guest. at the end of the day, Ryoko knows how i feel, and anyone who is willing to be swayed by your hastily put-together and poorly conceived arguments simply doesn't matter to me.

Ryoko, i apologize for hijacking this thread. nightbloom, feel free to PM me if you wish.