Spear Nuker S/S NUker or Force Nuker?

[Rozelady]

Hey guys i am thinking about what i should choose for my nuker maybe u can help

Poll it and Say Why U said thats the best Thank you

[BloodyBlade]

Bicheon Light/Cold =)

[darthsithius]

light/fire/cold , because that my build atm and might be my ger or other ppl but I do good dmg to kill str's lvl 68+\-

[Rozelady]

explain why please

[RogueKiller]

Heuskal/ Light/ Cold
Works very well. Even better if you are slightly hybrid. The dmg intake is very low due to 50% snow shield, dmg output is very high due to usage of spear.

[darthsithius]

why you ask. having a weapon mastery* only the mastery raises ur physical damage by alittle. weapon mastery's are for a full str's .only advantage in using weapon skills is having critical attacks as a full int ur critical damage will not be boosted like a full str who almost does double damage with 1 critical. so using those skills will never be stronger than using ur full power and that is nukes.almsot every skill in those 3 force trees will help you do maximum damage . I am sure many ppl will disagree with me, yet I am positive about my choise in build and believe I will do good in the future.

[darthsithius]

"NUKER" with no fire is a Gimp nuker.

[RogueKiller]

^ Wow... I really don't know what to say.
Currently with 80 a pure force nuker is the worst build you can think of. A pure nuker just doesn't do enough dmg by himself for 1, 2nd it isn't hard to wait out his snow shield because all you need to do it constant kb (archer) kd(Blader) or stun (Glaiver) and with that alone you can wait out the snow shield and after that it is a simple kill. A nuke is meant to be well timed and when you can't be hit. For example right after knocking someone down, or after stunning them. And physical attacks for a pure int doesn't increase it by a little. The DPS of physical attacks is much higher because of the load time of a nuke. If you can do 8k dmg with SSE in 3 seconds and follow it up with GSM in a total of 5 seconds. In that time you have done 14k damage. However with a nuke you doing 8-9k dmg in 4 seconds. Then the second nuke takes another 4 seconds to come about, in that time you can have a higher
chance of stun or knocked down. So in 8 seconds you have done 16k dmg while with phy attacks you have done 14k dmg in 5 seconds as opposed to doing 16k dmg in 8 seconds. Your doing almost the same amount of dmg in a shorter period of time. Even with a chance of crit, with that you increase you DPS.
Edit: Video Added
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Clearly a nuker without fire is a "gimp". /sarcasm
Just some random videos I came across that were well made.

[darthsithius]

cool notes, ur talking about a light spearman im talking about a nuker in example a MAGE class like the wizards that do not use weapon skills... its better not to confuse Rozelady anymore and let him/her decide him/her own play style .

[blackfalcon]

cool notes, ur talking about a light spearman im talking about a nuker in example a MAGE class like the wizards that do not use weapon skills... its better not to confuse Rozelady anymore and let him/her decide him/her own play style .

why talk about wiz when the person is obviosly talking about a chinese nuker?

[darthsithius]

Im saying that no weapon skills nuker = wizard like only nukes for damage.

[raphaell666]

+1 At everything RogueKiller said so far.

cool notes, ur talking about a light spearman im talking about a nuker in example a MAGE class like the wizards that do not use weapon skills... its better not to confuse Rozelady anymore and let him/her decide him/her own play style .

"Light spearman" = chinese int nuker.

Im saying that no weapon skills nuker = wizard like only nukes for damage.

Sure, but you forgot to mention that wizards do way more damage than a "no weapon skills nuker" (usually wizards can easily 1 hit ppl, and chinese nukers cannot).


Take a look at this discussion about "no weapon nuker": viewtopic.php?f=4&t=86128&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

[alcoholic]

All force suks.
you cant jus kill with nuke u need weapon skills to.
like spear stun then nuke.
ive meet a person all force lvl 80 we pvped i jus standing there and never die becasue nukes take long to cast and my hp will be full by the time they cast anther one.
and i have block

[Dancin]

Face it. All Int Builds are bad. Don't waste your time in planning Int Builds They all suck its for stupid people who have No Intelligence and want intelligence xD rofl

[RogueKiller]

Face it. All Int Builds are bad. Don't waste your time in planning Int Builds They all suck its for stupid people who have No Intelligence and want intelligence xD rofl

Lol the ultimate fail comment.

[alcoholic]

Face it. All Int Builds are bad. Don't waste your time in planning Int Builds They all suck its for stupid people who have No Intelligence and want intelligence xD rofl

wow all int builds are bad ... and what lvl is your character??
i have 4 int builds and they are not bad i kill glaviers higher lvl then me.

[raphaell666]

Face it. All Int Builds are bad. Don't waste your time in planning Int Builds They all suck its for stupid people who have No Intelligence and want intelligence xD rofl

Lol the ultimate fail comment.

+1 Again, lol.

[salmissra]

hm first of all, i liked those vids. thnx for putting them.

imo...should do a light/ice/weapon...whether it be heuksal or bicheon

heuksal: more dmg, stun, kb, hp (with passive)
bicheon: more defense, kd, (bleed and fear wiht the update i think..), (passive: adds def too)


both builds are great and i've seen good nuker builds with both weapons...just depends on your weapon/shield stats

you should just choose which ever one you like...the heuksal chains or the bicheon dances for example...i chose heuksal mainly because i the 8d spear (gonna miss it so much when 9d comes )

also:

if you chose bicheon: you get the temporary phys. def increase buff
if you chose heusal: you get the temporary mag. def. increase buff
(you would already have ice: snowshield)

so both classes are already great...just depends on your style

oh and i also believe you should not do an all force nuker...your gonna regret it later on..ya your gonna be strong with your nukes...but when your snow shield/other bicheon or heuksal buff runs out...your gonna die pretty fast.

i love having the weapon as a secondary defense..sword knockdowns and the spear kb and stun

also i left out fire mainly because of the cap...it is mainly a str imbue now i think...feel free to flame me on this..not an expert on str builds..

look at the first vid: he did great job of pairing his nuke and his weapon (spear) skill

[darthsithius]

you never win if you copy others.

ED: that is 2 much like glavie, 2-3 nukes combined with weapon skills is NOT what I am talking about its like ppl in ur party use only weapon skills to fight enemies/ you use only nukes maybe spaming emperors is fun for you not me.

[Verfo]

-Force Nuker is a less powered wizard, does great in pve, but sucks at pvp because you will do less damage since your wep use wont be increased by 80% and second of all, if your against a blader , s/s , spear ,or glavie. YOU WILL LOSE becuase you depend on snow shield and heuskal/sword buff, after those run out you're vulnerable . you need weapon skills for kb or kd, i would suggest this build.

int nuker 7:1

90 Cap

Spear: 90
Light: 90
Ice: 90
Fire:30

[Dancin]

You might also try
90 Light 90 Fire 90 Cold and 30 Heuksal
You get 1 Soul Spear and 1 Ghost Spear
or you can try:
90 Light 90 Fire 79 Cold and 41 Heuksal
You get 2 Soul Spear and 2 Ghost Spear (1 with kd). But don't think about stun the lvl is too low (the skills still do nice damage).

Same with Bicheon:

You go 90 Fire Light 75 Cold and 45 Bicheon
This way you get 2 Knock Down Attacks and 2 Stabs
I think the Knock Down attacks from Bicheon are bugged (I saw a lvl 20 kd a lvl 80 )
So you can use KD's while almost being pure Force nuker. But I think you still will do bad at PvP.

[RogueKiller]

You might also try
90 Light 90 Fire 90 Cold and 30 Heuksal
You get 1 Soul Spear and 1 Ghost Spear
or you can try:
90 Light 90 Fire 79 Cold and 41 Heuksal
You get 2 Soul Spear and 2 Ghost Spear (1 with kd). But don't think about stun the lvl is too low (the skills still do nice damage).

Same with Bicheon:

You go 90 Fire Light 75 Cold and 45 Bicheon
This way you get 2 Knock Down Attacks and 2 Stabs
I think the Knock Down attacks from Bicheon are bugged (I saw a lvl 20 kd a lvl 80 )
So you can use KD's while almost being pure Force nuker. But I think you still will do bad at PvP.

Except for the fact that the stun probability and the knock down probability is going to be extremely low when your weapon lvl is so low. The chance of kding someone with a lvl 45 knock down to a lvl 90 is probably around 5% and the stun is probably somewhere around there as well as the stun lvl being so low. And no the skill will not do nice dmg because it is lvl 41, the phy dmg also matters and when it is 100-200 phy dmg its probably going to do 1k-2k dmg at lvl 90. Thats ridiculously insignificant, even a mob would hit harder than that on a natural basis. As for the seeing a lvl 20 knock down a lvl 80, its possible however it was lucky if he got the knock down in one try because the kd probability is based of a lvl percentage. So its 50% chance of kd to someone your lvl with it maxed and it lowers from there every lvl. So by lvl 80 its close to a 5% chance if even that of kd'ing someone.

The first two soul spears aren't the best moves. The first one is a lvl 20 move that is very weak. The second is alright however it isn't the strongest move that you get (obviously). But at lvl 90 the damage coming out of these would be extremely insignificant. As for Ghost spear, the first one is useless cause it doesn't even kb. The second one is decent however, back to lvl 90 where it is weak. You need to make these moves do dmg as well as putting their effect on people. Not just putting the effect on people without severe dmg and a low probability of the effect being put on the opponent.

Bicheon kd skills are almost useless when it comes to having them so low. The kd is not bugged, it is possible for a lvl 20 to kd a lvl 80 however the chances are insignificant. If you relying on that in pvp you will not get it 95% of the time. A kd can be very helpful when your running out of hp and when you put your chances on a move that has a 5% chance instead of a 50% chance you know you are against the odds. Moreover a nuker can do a lot more damage having the lvl 74 and lvl 71 skills that increase their dmg by a good 2000.

Finally, why suggest a build thats bad at pvp?

[Dancin]

no, I know that the kd chance was around 50% even if you only have the first book of kd. Don't know whether they have fixed it yet.
Soul Spear and Ghost Spear at low lvl do low damage but isn't useless for a pure Int because of the high %. I think go 41 Heuksal and 79 Cold is better than go pure force nuker (or 45 Bicheon if it is still bugged) because you don't really need more cold but it is nice to have some extra melle skills (that's only my opinion). But I wouldn't suggest both builds if you plan to go pvp.

[RogueKiller]

no, I know that the kd chance was around 50% even if you only have the first book of kd. Don't know whether they have fixed it yet.
Soul Spear and Ghost Spear at low lvl do low damage but isn't useless for a pure Int because of the high %.

Your not getting the point.
Kd isn't only 50% if the user of the kd skill and the opponent is the same lvl. However if the opponent is higher lvl the kd probability lowers a certain percentage. Its not bugged.
I agree that soul spear does low dmg because it would be at lvl 30 or 41 at 90 cap. However I don't understand what your talking about when you say

Soul Spear and Ghost Spear at low lvl do low damage but isn't useless for a pure Int because of the high %.

What is this percentage your talking about?

[raphaell666]

What is this percentage your talking about?

I think he means the percentage of damage of the skill, example:

Fire bolt: Mag. attack power 30-60 (366%)
These are not the exact values of the skill, this is just a example.


Anyways RogueKiller is absolutely right about the knocking down chances.

no, I know that the kd chance was around 50% even if you only have the first book of kd. Don't know whether they have fixed it yet.
Soul Spear and Ghost Spear at low lvl do low damage but isn't useless for a pure Int because of the high %. I think go 41 Heuksal and 79 Cold is better than go pure force nuker (or 45 Bicheon if it is still bugged) because you don't really need more cold but it is nice to have some extra melle skills (that's only my opinion). But I wouldn't suggest both builds if you plan to go pvp.

The 50% chance would be for the lvl of the skill. Lets say: KnockDown 50%(lvl 24).
It will knock down a lvl 24 enemy by 50%. If you try to knock down a lower lvl, it will be easier than 50%, and if you try to knock down a higher lvl it will be harder than 50%.
Even the pure ints will find the increase in phy damage from the skills usefull. They would prolly do low damage if they rely only on the %. Imho having a low weap mastery is useless in most, if not all, cases.

[alcoholic]

What is this percentage your talking about?

I think he means the percentage of damage of the skill, example:

Fire bolt: Mag. attack power 30-60 (366%)
These are not the exact values of the skill, this is just a example.


Anyways RogueKiller is absolutely right about the knocking down chances.

no, I know that the kd chance was around 50% even if you only have the first book of kd. Don't know whether they have fixed it yet.
Soul Spear and Ghost Spear at low lvl do low damage but isn't useless for a pure Int because of the high %. I think go 41 Heuksal and 79 Cold is better than go pure force nuker (or 45 Bicheon if it is still bugged) because you don't really need more cold but it is nice to have some extra melle skills (that's only my opinion). But I wouldn't suggest both builds if you plan to go pvp.

The 50% chance would be for the lvl of the skill. Lets say: KnockDown 50%(lvl 24).
It will knock down a lvl 24 enemy by 50%. If you try to knock down a lower lvl, it will be easier than 50%, and if you try to knock down a higher lvl it will be harder than 50%.
Even the pure ints will find the increase in phy damage from the skills usefull. They would prolly do low damage if they rely only on the %. Imho having a low weap mastery is useless in most, if not all, cases.

is that really true??
becasue i was fighting a lvl 80 hybrid int s/s with my 73 i just kept knocking him down easly.
i really think that if it says 50% it knocks down anyone with a chance of 50% even if they higher lvl or lower lvl.

[raphaell666]

is that really true??
becasue i was fighting a lvl 80 hybrid int s/s with my 73 i just kept knocking him down easly.
i really think that if it says 50% it knocks down anyone with a chance of 50% even if they higher lvl or lower lvl.

Afaik what I said is true. Your knocking down lvl was 72? Then the diference isnt big, its normal that you knock down him easily. The chances of knocking down decrease/increase sort of slowly. And, if you notice, the chances of you debuffing, stunning, everything else, will work easier if you have it up-to-date. Like: try to stun a lvl 45+ with your stun lvl 2 or 3. It will be very hard, and the stun will not last 5 seconds (even if its 80% chance of working).

EDIT: I'm not completely sure, but I doubt I'm wrong.

[Dancin]

is that really true??
becasue i was fighting a lvl 80 hybrid int s/s with my 73 i just kept knocking him down easly.
i really think that if it says 50% it knocks down anyone with a chance of 50% even if they higher lvl or lower lvl.

Also have noticed that. Maybe the lower chance of kd is not implemented yet.
Stun is another story. It only works like every 20 hit if your level is lower.