Joymax approves 1* Poppers?

zphantom · Post by **zphantom** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:31 am

cuchulainn wrote:
zphantom wrote:one point:
If it's not in iSRO yet, it won't change how I play the game. I play the game based on the current rules, not what we might get at some unforseeable time in the future.

i bet that you (or others) have 1* popped for as long as you can remember which means you didn't always abide by the "rules" and exploited 1* trades all along

And I bet you have, as long as you remember, accused any thief that has 1* popped of 1* popping for every bit of theif exp.

i have no idea what your point is here...explain please.

1* popping is not in the rules. In fact, there are very few official "rules" in this game (and most MMOs for that matter). The "guidelines" for games like this are made by the community, not the company that produces it.

if guidelines are made by the community like you say, do you honestly believe 1* popping would be accepted? certainly not if the community includes all the players opinions and not just the high level theives.

Therefore, each person makes their own guidelines and it is their right to not give a **** about the guidelines others think should be followed.

wait, which is it, the community or to each his own? here's where your argument (or lack thereof) is pointless, you basically say people can play anywhich way they want like i don't know that. we KNOW that, we are part of the community voices discussing the need for the elimination of 1* popping.

I Flarking hate it when noobs are too lazy to avoid 1* poppers and then bitch when they lose their shit cause they didn't even bother to try to go around or even deviate from their path at all.

i have repeated myself a few times here already. it is NOT EASY to avoid 1* poppers no matter how you try. instead, i should say according to your line of though..."i flarking hate it when high leveler's are to lazy to find 2*-5* traders and then bitch when they can't find one cause they didnt even bother to look everywhere and instead go on the linear path of picking on low level 1* trades"

Well, at least I'm not the type of person that blames others when I fail. If I end up in a ditch, that's my fault and no one elses. Your philosophy it seems is: i'm poor and hungry and here's why someone else is responible for my problems.

Pathetic.

And no, I'm not really an ass in real life, except when people really irritate me as you are doing now.

of course, according to the analogy, if a 500 muscle packed wrestler roughed you up and took all your belongings which resulted in the fact that you live in a ditch, poor, and are hungry, is it your fault?

ShizKnight · Post by **ShizKnight** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:42 am

You cannot compare a game to real life. Lets say I murder you ingame. If I had murdered you in life, you wouldn't be able to rez at town, and instead of me being killed 6 times by some random person, I'd be sent to trial. Seems different? Because it is. Game =/= RL.

Post by **Ryoko** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:47 am

No one gonna read all that shit anyway.

Certainly not me.

Sorry sir, I just don't care.

Tired of the tears and drama anyway. I pop. I'm not stopping. No matter how much you post. Maybe you try to piss me off instead - but lots of people already do.

I love my friends and I love my guild.

Hard fact is, I probobly don't give a damn about you, your trade money, your brokeness, or anything none the like.

I do not care about 1*. I do not care about what words you use to described it. I do not care about complaints such as cheat, exploit, your gold fish or anything else.

Maybe I will get ice thief, and it kill you in slow motion. I like that.

Maybe you zerk on it and die anyway. Thats hillarious.

I would sooner stop participating in my own forum, than come here and read more posts, and more crybabies about 1* trades.

It even seems to escape this thread, and its in signatures now to.

Keep crying. It doesnt change anything accept make others unwelcome.

Which is how I feel.

I loved this forum, but never did I think I'd be surrounded by a bunch of people who throw stones at you because they couldnt have their way.

Now I browse every day to read some comment, or some sig, or some 1* note in a thread thats a totally different topic.

A lot of non poppers are no better than anyone else. If anyone could tell you that, its me. They're human too, who kick and scream, make drama, problems and threats just like anyone else.

So what if they didnt use an NPC to do it.

I used to have a tissue for you to wipe your eyes, but after people behave like this, I won't even give you that.

I don't care.

When you have something worth complaining about, send me notice.

Bye.

zphantom · Post by **zphantom** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:51 am

Bakemaster wrote:As a person who argued against 1-star popping for quite a while before the Q&A, and as someone who realized the futility of continuing the "spirit of the law" argument after the Q&A, I have two things to say.

if there is enough opposition they might change it. maybe you're arguments weren't filled with enough enthusaism. why did you even give up? is it foolish to say that the GMs might regard this site in high enough regards and follow the supposed "community" opinion in favor of 1* popping which is prevalent on this site?

1. Regardless of what you imagine to be Joymax's secret motives for posting the Q&A, and whether or not it is a cover-your-ass copout move, it very clearly indicates that 1-star popping is not considered illegitimate or an exploit by the people who call the shots.

i'm going to go and "assume" as a fact the "rumors" going around about NPC hunter spawns for theives seems to support a fix to the 1*popping.

2. PigDestroyer, you are a huuuuuuuuge douchebag. You bring up a few valid points and then toss them aside in favor of ad hominem, mixed metaphors and smug moralism. The fact that you have goaded cuchulainn into losing his cool doesn't change the fact that you have been owned.

but we know it's okay that cuchulainn can lose his cool right? you all need to stop being so hypocritical and thinking it's "okay" to flame away because "he started it"

wasn't it you who said it would be easy to ignore???

killerkong · Post by **killerkong** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:52 am

if you get popped...stfu and grind so you wont get popped again.

Ikici from Troy popped me when i lvl32...and have not been on a trade run since..and im 58. sure i bitched and moaned...even wasted silk on globals.

so instead of wasting time bitching about being popped...you can use that time to grind.

cuchulainn · Post by **cuchulainn** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:56 am

You said I "exploited 1* trades all along" which insinuates I don't have a single % or what you would call legitimate thieving, which is bullshit. In fact, a thief who just gets exp from popping isn't a complete thief. Someone with a bit from popping and a bit from multis has better thieving experience. I'm not saying someone who never pops isn't complete either, so don't try putting those words in my mouth.

Guidelines are made by the community. The community however, is a collection of individuals, so the community guidelines are based on what the consensus of the individuals. For 1* popping, since there is no real consensus so there isn't a community guideline for it, therefore it becomes a case of to each his own.

It actually isn'tthat hard to avoid 1* poppers. The moment you see a thief you suspect is 1* popping, turn around before you get anywhere near them. Stay on your camel and pot works somewhat well when you have an npc latched on you until you can cross a ferry.

If you get roughed up by someone stronger than you, work out and become as strong as them. Then they can no longer rough you up.

zphantom · Post by **zphantom** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:21 am

cuchulainn wrote:You said I "exploited 1* trades all along" which insinuates I don't have a single % or what you would call legitimate thieving, which is bullshit. In fact, a thief who just gets exp from popping isn't a complete thief. Someone with a bit from popping and a bit from multis has better thieving experience. I'm not saying someone who never pops isn't complete either, so don't try putting those words in my mouth.

first off, i believe i said i didn't understand what you previously posted before so chill okay? there were no words put in your mouth. second, i will clarify the "trades all along" which is taken out of context or maybe it wasn't clear. to clarify, 1* poppers have popped even before joymax wrote their statement therefore 1* popping was not always "clearly" accepted yet 1* popping existed...and maybe you were part of it. third, you must be conceding if you can only come up with an argument by assuming that i was saying you ONLY 1*popped or 1*popped 24/7

Guidelines are made by the community. The community however, is a collection of individuals, so the community guidelines are based on what the consensus of the individuals. For 1* popping, since there is no real consensus so there isn't a community guideline for it, therefore it becomes a case of to each his own.

there is no clear census HERE in this forum but i would wager that the 100's of newer players in Jang and DW heavily weigh against 1*popping which i thought was clear when i said that if the community includes ALL of the players playing and NOT just the high level theives HERE on the forum.

It actually isn'tthat hard to avoid 1* poppers. The moment you see a thief you suspect is 1* popping, turn around before you get anywhere near them. Stay on your camel and pot works somewhat well when you have an npc latched on you until you can cross a ferry.

so if a trader is not near a ferry the trader is as good as dead. okay.

If you get roughed up by someone stronger than you, work out and become as strong as them. Then they can no longer rough you up.

whatever man. might as well become the man of steel while you're at it.

Bakemaster · Post by **Bakemaster** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:12 am

zphantom wrote:
Bakemaster wrote:As a person who argued against 1-star popping for quite a while before the Q&A, and as someone who realized the futility of continuing the "spirit of the law" argument after the Q&A, I have two things to say.

if there is enough opposition they might change it. maybe you're arguments weren't filled with enough enthusaism. why did you even give up? is it foolish to say that the GMs might regard this site in high enough regards and follow the supposed "community" opinion in favor of 1* popping which is prevalent on this site?

I gave up because we had been arguing very vocally for months when they posted the Q&A, which was very clearly intended to express support for 1-star popping without explicitly saying "we support 1-star popping". You would have to be either naive or foolish to believe there was any other reason for that Q&A.

1. Regardless of what you imagine to be Joymax's secret motives for posting the Q&A, and whether or not it is a cover-your-ass copout move, it very clearly indicates that 1-star popping is not considered illegitimate or an exploit by the people who call the shots.

i'm going to go and "assume" as a fact the "rumors" going around about NPC hunter spawns for theives seems to support a fix to the 1*popping.

They are not just rumors. The new trade system which has been implemented in KSRO, and which will be implemented here eventually, will not prevent 1-star popping. It will make it a bit more complicated because thieves will have to pop as a trader and switch suits, or work as a trader/thief tag team.

2. PigDestroyer, you are a huuuuuuuuge douchebag. You bring up a few valid points and then toss them aside in favor of ad hominem, mixed metaphors and smug moralism. The fact that you have goaded cuchulainn into losing his cool doesn't change the fact that you have been owned.

but we know it's okay that cuchulainn can lose his cool right? you all need to stop being so hypocritical and thinking it's "okay" to flame away because "he started it"

I didn't say that it was okay, I implied that it was understandable. Cuchulainn is a respected member of this community, and having argued with many people like PigDestroyer on many forums, I empathize with his situation. Sometimes it takes the patience of a saint to keep from responding in kind.

wasn't it you who said it would be easy to ignore???

What I said was "I won't be goaded." When a post is worth responding to, as was yours, I respond to it at length and in detail. When it is not, I either ignore it completely, or I mock the poster for my own amusement. PigDestroyer makes himself such an easy target that it's almost not worth it. Almost.

PigDestroyer · Post by **PigDestroyer** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:15 am

zphantom wrote:
cuchulainn wrote:You said I "exploited 1* trades all along" which insinuates I don't have a single % or what you would call legitimate thieving, which is bullshit. In fact, a thief who just gets exp from popping isn't a complete thief. Someone with a bit from popping and a bit from multis has better thieving experience. I'm not saying someone who never pops isn't complete either, so don't try putting those words in my mouth.

first off, i believe i said i didn't understand what you previously posted before so chill okay? there were no words put in your mouth. second, i will clarify the "trades all along" which is taken out of context or maybe it wasn't clear. to clarify, 1* poppers have popped even before joymax wrote their statement therefore 1* popping was not always "clearly" accepted yet 1* popping existed...and maybe you were part of it. third, you must be conceding if you can only come up with an argument by assuming that i was saying you ONLY 1*popped or 1*popped 24/7

Guidelines are made by the community. The community however, is a collection of individuals, so the community guidelines are based on what the consensus of the individuals. For 1* popping, since there is no real consensus so there isn't a community guideline for it, therefore it becomes a case of to each his own.

there is no clear census HERE in this forum but i would wager that the 100's of newer players in Jang and DW heavily weigh against 1*popping which i thought was clear when i said that if the community includes ALL of the players playing and NOT just the high level theives HERE on the forum.

It actually isn'tthat hard to avoid 1* poppers. The moment you see a thief you suspect is 1* popping, turn around before you get anywhere near them. Stay on your camel and pot works somewhat well when you have an npc latched on you until you can cross a ferry.

so if a trader is not near a ferry the trader is as good as dead. okay.

If you get roughed up by someone stronger than you, work out and become as strong as them. Then they can no longer rough you up.

whatever man. might as well become the man of steel while you're at it.

I dont know who this guy is,..but I like em. I like the fact that someone else besides me has the balls to stand up for themselves. WTG.

cuchulainn - "putting words in my mouth" , I've said that to you countless times. You are the undisputed king of doing this. And lol, I told you that you were starting to sound like me. Your definitely running out of material to spew.

See, - you dont need me to leave to enjoy your tea,.. someone will always come along that has finally had enough of it, cause there are plenty of them.

Bakemaster - not much to say, but you do seem kinda out of place here.. when I see your posts its like, "where the ..... did this feeble ass hair crawl out from under"? You wait to pick and choose moments that are convenient for you to put your two cents in, - usually just about something as stupid and boring as spelling and gramar. Really, - dont you have a bake sale to be at?

Bakemaster · Post by **Bakemaster** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:25 am

Two cents.

EDIT: Awww, you snuck in and edited it right before I got here! Touché, sir!

PigDestroyer · Post by **PigDestroyer** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:30 am

Bakemaster wrote:Two cents.

EDIT: Awww, you snuck in and edited it right before I got here! Touché, sir!

Yup, I wouldn't want to goad you with my spelling so I do you a favor and look it over now. You're welcome.

Edited for Bakemaster's Obsessive Compulsive Disorder

Bakemaster · Post by **Bakemaster** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:32 am

Oh, come on. That one has to be a trap.

PigDestroyer · Post by **PigDestroyer** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:37 am

what the "yup"?? no actually thats just my slang,.. sorry I refuse to change my accent as well.

moley · Post by **moley** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:41 am

he was referring to 'your' when what you should have written is 'you're'

PigDestroyer · Post by **PigDestroyer** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:51 am

moley wrote:he was referring to 'your' when what you should have written is 'you're'

OMFG enough with the english teacher speaches already. Wow. I'm gonna leave that one there just to annoy you guys. The obsessive compulsive nit - picks are really getting kinda stupid.

Bakemaster · Post by **Bakemaster** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:54 am

I keep hoping after one of these posts you're going to jump out and say, "Haha, just kidding! Nobody could be that stupid!"

PigDestroyer · Post by **PigDestroyer** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:56 am

really, really stupid now.

BTW - I'm guessing you nit - pick spelling just to get a bigger number right above that flag thing that says Babel. That's kinda pathetic man,..you live here...I didn't know this forum provided yurts.

ShadowOfADoubt · Post by **ShadowOfADoubt** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:06 am

kumbaya, my lord... kumbaya....

PigDestroyer · Post by **PigDestroyer** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:10 am

ShadowOfADoubt wrote:kumbaya, my lord... kumbaya....

muahahaha

WOW - I even checked it out,..you have more posts than anyone on the entire f'n forum,..I bet that's something your awfully proud of....keep up the good work man, someday you might get a trophy or something! LMFAO

"Oh shit,..they're on to me...."

doa_master0 · Post by **doa_master0** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:24 am

its apart of the game.. if it wasnt they wud have fixed cuz u kno theres millions of cry babies crying to the gm's everytime they come.... so dont get caught if u do then go and try again dont make urself broke doing it that wud be stupid go 1* traders and go ge tthose 1* trader 1* poppers, im 30 now and ill be tryin it myself so beware u 2x's

ShadowOfADoubt · Post by **ShadowOfADoubt** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:29 am

doa_master0 wrote:its apart of the game.. if it wasnt they wud have fixed cuz u kno theres millions of cry babies crying to the gm's everytime they come.... so dont get caught if u do then go and try again dont make urself broke doing it that wud be stupid go 1* traders and go ge tthose 1* trader 1* poppers, im 30 now and ill be tryin it myself so beware u 2x's

Yeah... they could have made it so that upon spawning, thieves will ALWAYS go after the transport of whatever it was that caused them to spawn. Only by having someone else hit them would their aggro be taken off you. That would be an easy solution in my opinion... they don't need to go implement the thieves spawn hunter NPCs 'hack' that they're considering.

doa_master0 · Post by **doa_master0** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:20 am

no hack or like i said it wud have been fixed do u seee how many darn updates there are if it was hax 1 some1 wud either been banned or if its a bug it wud have been fixed and the point is to move and run when u see a THEIF.. duh bad guy (not the ppl behind the theif but if ur in the theif suit at that moment ur a bad guy)move and hide like ur suppose to unless of course u wanna murder them if u werent close to them u wudnt get there theives.... and if ur on a trade drop the loot and run or go ahead and spamm the xtra large tranport pots wich u can ask any 1* poppers fu*ks them up they ar elife savers prolly were brought in becauses of the cry babies u tears actually did something

doa_master0 · Post by **doa_master0** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:20 am

*EDIT* dble post */EDIT*

Moogie · Post by **Moogie** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:43 pm

I'm saddened to hear decent, good people say they "don't give a damn" when it comes to things like this. Disappointed. I'm not sure I understand where this lack of morality comes from. The way I see it, if you're a decent person in the first place, surely you feel something when you are completely aware that you're ruining another person's game time, when they can do nothing to stop you. No guilt? No emotion at all? There's nothing they can do, and they most likely did nothing to deserve it, so... why, how can you just not care? I wouldn't presume you get some sort of power rush from it, but... what else could it be, really??

I loved this forum, but never did I think I'd be surrounded by a bunch of people who throw stones at you because they couldnt have their way.

Now I browse every day to read some comment, or some sig, or some 1* note in a thread thats a totally different topic.

Sounds like it's not just a few people "crying". It takes more than a few people to surround someone on the Internet. :] And even as you say this, you still don't understand the problem so many people have with popping?... I'm... amazed, I guess, that you havn't yet figured it out. I still hold out hope that you will, though. Fortunately enough, the general balance seems to be swaying in favour of fairness of play lately. I'm happy to see so many more people support fair gameplay, whether they make themselves sound like idiots or not. :3 Such a thing is rare in MMORPGs, but even rarer in Korean import ones. It's a beautiful thing to see people online striving towards something good for a change.

I see the old "if you don't like it, grind" point coming up again from several people here. This isn't a fair option. Not everyone can grind five+ hours a day like you can. For some people, just an hour or two after work is all they can fit in. They play to have fun, obviously, just like anyone else, but they can't do that if they have to spend every minute of their scant free time grinding for some unreachable goal. They could spend years playing for 1-2 hours a day, doing nothing but levelgrinding, and still wouldn't be able to reach a level where it is safe to enjoy the other aspects of the game, due to the exploitation of 1* vulnerability allowing people with more time and patience to always be lording their unconquerable power over weaker characters. Does this sound fair? Is this really the best option you can come up with? :]

A popper has no more right than a newbie to enjoy the game. Someone with no life is not more entitled to fun and enjoyment than someone who works all day and needs an hour or two to unwind at the end of it. We all have equal rights to enjoy ourselves, irregardless of the time we spend playing, or the levels we achieve. Forget rules for a second- this is common sense stuff here. If you are a decent person who supports such opinions as 'equal opportunities', there should be no question in your mind when it comes to popping 1*s. It's selfish gameplay.

"I'm gonna have fun and I don't give a shit who suffers for it". I'm sorry, but you can't have that opinion and then blindly wonder why so many people have an issue with you.

ImmyRey · Post by **ImmyRey** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:57 pm

Ryoko wrote:Maybe I will get ice thief, and it kill you in slow motion. I like that.

Maybe you zerk on it and die anyway. Thats hillarious.

Oh dear. This is what it seemingly comes down to with some people. If you enjoy seeing someone suffering in this way, how about you grow some balls and actually do it to someone who has a chance of defending themselves, rather than helpless noobs. Oh, because you might get attacked? Oh sorry thats just not on is it? I forgot. Its attitudes like this that will be the death of this game, mark my words.

Bakemaster · Post by **Bakemaster** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:35 pm

Ryoko is an equal opportunity thief. Why do you assume that someone who pops 1-star traders never does anything else?

ImmyRey · Post by **ImmyRey** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:04 pm

It doesn't bother me that he also theives legitimately, i knew and respected him for that. I just struggle to believe that killing noobs for fun and little profit, is justified by saying 'I'm higher level than you / i can play how i want'.
Maybe its just me, but i expect people to not be so selfish. Oh well...

Bakemaster · Post by **Bakemaster** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:24 pm

Then why did you tell him to "grow some balls and actually do it to someone who has a chance of defending themselves" and suggest that he is afraid to be attacked?

ImmyRey · Post by **ImmyRey** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:31 pm

Because he is advocating one star popping! :roll:

Bakemaster · Post by **Bakemaster** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:43 pm

Therefore it's okay to insult him and make things up?