PvP Discussion.

[Barotix]

This in relation to the way pure int S/S and pure int Spears PvP. I have noticed that they fight as if their pure str (i.e.) Mostly phy atks rarely nuke or shout, I mean there are some that Nuke often enough to call themselves nukers, but the vast majority fight like their pure str counterpart, whats up with that? I just find it weird, but I guess thats just me. I know nuking takes slightly longer than just using physical atks, but sometimes all it takes to finish a match is a Lionshout and a GSM or a nuke~lionshout then GSM. Meh, maybe I'm just rambling on about something I don't understand.

[foudre]

Idk any nuker but a fire nuker, it seams better to use the weapon attacks with an imbue you quickly way out dmg if you had nuked once and shouted, its faster attacks its better dmg, chance of stun on the spear, chance of knock down on the sword, both of which could really save you. Edit and on venus alot of those spear users you see a hybrids, at least in the botter guilds, i've met more that were hybrid then actually pure int

[Snoopy]

Okay, well. My hybrid int, I use a lot of knockdowns / stabs and Heaven Chain, more than nukes. Nukes on my build don't to that great damage, and it's wiser to use stabs / chains / knockdowns.

As for Hybrid int's, same thing goes Emperor / Mars / Windless all do much larger damage than a glaiver, and have a chance of stun / dull etc.

Why pure ints would use this, well, they have really strong nukes, and they should be nuking, not using emperor / knockdowns etc. If nuke's were just going to nuke, they wouldn't have weapon masteries.

Lionshout is a pathetic excuse for a skill, it does only same damage, as if you put your imbue on and slap something, not much.

[Barotix]

Wouldn't a well placed stun followed by the last fire nuke and GSM be better than continuing with the physical attacks? I can understand hybrids, I was one myself before I rolled with my warrior.

[SuperTanker]

i dont have a lot of experience in pvp with my nuker, but physical attack + imbue will do very good dmg. it will also do more dmg against other pure ints. also, physical skills give better defence, like kd can save u by a lot, kb cancels attacks that might have killed u, and stun, well, stuns ur opponent.

imho i those are better than burn/parry thingy.

[NuclearSilo]

lol
Barotix loves the theory fight...

[Barotix]

i dont have a lot of experience in pvp with my nuker, but physical attack + imbue will do very good dmg. it will also do more dmg against other pure ints. also, physical skills give better defence, like kd can save u by a lot, kb cancels attacks that might have killed u, and stun, well, stuns ur opponent.

imho i those are better than burn/parry thingy.

Yeah, but wouldn't a combination of physical and nukes be better than just one or the other? Like at early 3x, a lucky stun followed by a Nuke and GS would ideally end the battle, right? KD gives you time to breath ~ got that, but some people love their combo stab and KB.

@Silo, yes; yes I do.

[MysticRose]

lol
Barotix loves the theory fight...

While i agree with Silo, cant help lol

[Fat_Smurf]

This in relation to the way pure int S/S and pure int Spears PvP. I have noticed that they fight as if their pure str (i.e.) Mostly phy atks rarely nuke or shout, I mean there are some that Nuke often enough to call themselves nukers, but the vast majority fight like their pure str counterpart, whats up with that? I just find it weird, but I guess thats just me. I know nuking takes slightly longer than just using physical atks, but sometimes all it takes to finish a match is a Lionshout and a GSM or a nuke~lionshout then GSM. Meh, maybe I'm just rambling on about something I don't understand.

when u nuke u arent defending yourself, so if you're taking alot of damage or getting stunned/kb/kd you'll rather use ur physical atatck wich hurt alot than try to place a nuke.

I use nuke when I know I'll be able to place it, or when someone isn't targetting me

[Barotix]

This in relation to the way pure int S/S and pure int Spears PvP. I have noticed that they fight as if their pure str (i.e.) Mostly phy atks rarely nuke or shout, I mean there are some that Nuke often enough to call themselves nukers, but the vast majority fight like their pure str counterpart, whats up with that? I just find it weird, but I guess thats just me. I know nuking takes slightly longer than just using physical atks, but sometimes all it takes to finish a match is a Lionshout and a GSM or a nuke~lionshout then GSM. Meh, maybe I'm just rambling on about something I don't understand.

when u nuke u arent defending yourself, so if you're taking alot of damage or getting stunned/kb/kd you'll rather use ur physical atatck wich hurt alot than try to place a nuke.

I use nuke when I know I'll be able to place it, or when someone isn't targetting me

So using physical atks would be in retaliation to others who use physical atks. Makes sense ~ you want to keep your DPS high in order to open room for a nuke. With spear stun is the best time to place a nuke, but what about s/s? They don't appear to have openings, so would it be preferable to just keep up the physical onslaught?

[Fat_Smurf]

This in relation to the way pure int S/S and pure int Spears PvP. I have noticed that they fight as if their pure str (i.e.) Mostly phy atks rarely nuke or shout, I mean there are some that Nuke often enough to call themselves nukers, but the vast majority fight like their pure str counterpart, whats up with that? I just find it weird, but I guess thats just me. I know nuking takes slightly longer than just using physical atks, but sometimes all it takes to finish a match is a Lionshout and a GSM or a nuke~lionshout then GSM. Meh, maybe I'm just rambling on about something I don't understand.

when u nuke u arent defending yourself, so if you're taking alot of damage or getting stunned/kb/kd you'll rather use ur physical atatck wich hurt alot than try to place a nuke.

I use nuke when I know I'll be able to place it, or when someone isn't targetting me

So using physical atks would be in retaliation to others who use physical atks. Makes sense ~ you want to keep your DPS high in order to open room for a nuke. With spear stun is the best time to place a nuke, but what about s/s? They don't appear to have openings, so would it be preferable to just keep up the physical onslaught?

my nuker was a s/s, normally I just keep spamming kd and chain and try to place a nuke from time to time after he failed a stun or something.


but yeah as I said I mostly nuke for grinding or gang bang

[RogueKiller]

A spear nuker can do almost as much dmg as nukes but at a faster rate. Nukes themselves arent very fast. Whenever I face pure force spear nukers, I find it easier to kill them. Its because they have powerful nukes, however i have enough moves to stop them from doing anything whatsoever. So this is why they have to use SSE and SSS and the other skills that give effects. Another thing I have noticed is after they stun me they nuke and they stun again to nuke again.

As for S/S nukers, I've seen that they like to stick with combos, and at higher lvls nuke right after giving the effects. They only seem to use repeated kd when they are low on health (But there are some that do nothing but kd -_-). However I dont know as much about them as I do about Spear nukers to make the same judgement. Well nukes just doesn't do anything special that would reduce dmg intake.

Nukers I think use nukes when it best fits the situation. Similar to how Glaivers use mars when it is needed to kill. Until then they just keep to the stuns and dull or for s/s division and bleed etc...

[STARNATION]

What I would do is use Ghost Spear (The one that pushes back)then shoot a nuke onto them.

[Snoopy]

Best time for an S/S is when the opponent gets up off the ground after a Knockdown.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=DplN6FdDx ... re=related

You can see after the glaiver gets up (After the whole walking at the intro), they're almost paused for a second. That was when I used Flying Stone - Smash.

[Barotix]

ok, so conclusion is:

1]Physical Attacks for 1v1, Nukes for Support Fire.
2]Nuke is equivalent to GSM for Glaive.

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So Nukes are pretty much for GW or Jobbing confrontations? This does make sense, it would also explain why nukers take weapon skills. As a chinese you can customize your character to your preference and some people don't want to be the Support Fire, but prefer to be in the Fray.

-----

So Pure int Nuke: Support Character, this clears a lot of things up.
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ok so S/S right after successful KD, and spear after a well placed stun.

[BloodOwnzzz]

Full Ints of the future...

Weapon + Fire + Light no nukes...

Anyway, most Ints are really weak defensively so using KD's and Stun is a good strategy. But they don't get as much damage out the way they play ATM. Who cares about others stupidity just be smart yourself and hopefully they'll learn when you rip them a new asshole.

[Backfire]

Wouldn't a well placed stun followed by the last fire nuke and GSM be better than continuing with the physical attacks? I can understand hybrids, I was one myself before I rolled with my warrior.

On my hybrid int:

SSE + SSS until I can tell where there HP might lie. The next stun I get light nuke then a GSM. kills all the time

[HawaiianMix]

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Only beginners use weapon skills instead of only nukes.

Watch past the middle.

[TOloseGT]

lol, chinese pvp is way too boring.

[FireVortex]

lol, chinese pvp is way too boring.

+1
Althought the euro wizard pvp is XTREMELY boring .Just spam nukes .

[StacE]

My reasoning would be summed up by Smurf... I would only use a nuke when i knew it was going to land. Physical attack are accompanied by status' which help to kill and survive EG Impotent to kill - Dull to survive. KB + KD also allow time to pot etc.

My old combo at 70 cap was Nuke, KD/stab/stab , Nuke. The first nuke was when the player was still running to me, and the second nuke was only after they had been KD'd. Each situation allowed the nuke to release.

Since all these status' have come into play during the 80cap, it's most important to get the opposition with a damage inc. debuff. Such as bleed/impotent. So i'd begin with lightning chain and the smashing series skill. Then once they have bleed/impotent, KD-stabstab-Nuke-KD-stabstab.

[Elise]

Summary: tempo gain is better with weapon skills. Gain enough tempo and you will win the pvp.

[Doppleganger]

lol, chinese pvp is way too boring.

[antics]

in pvp i always nuke first
then knock down when he gets up i nuke again and they are usually dead

[LheraJ]

i think its verry simple

with a weapon skill you can crit

and with a nuke you can't

that is why i love hybrid spear

+ you have kd or kb

[salmissra]

lol maybe its just me but i find using nukes nonstop both a little repetitive or mp consuming lol. imbue and a spear or sword skill does pretty much the same dmg.

grinding: mostly nukes with ghostspears and lion shouts
pvp: mostly weapon skills..only nuke when the opponent is stunned or far away. but that's me

[iGod]

Well the usual chinese I pvp with is a 90% hybrid with light/cold/bicheon and I barely ever use nukes because they don't hit that much.. I just get some statuses on the guy and then kd/stab

Nukers use weapon skills the same reason tankers do, to inflict statuses/stun/knock-back/knockdown.

Even when I had my pure int spear I always avoided using nukes, it's hard to survive if you just nuke, you leave yourself open.


EDIT: and in job wars too, whats the point of nuking when someone has oblation and snow shield on? or bless spell and screens on.. If you know they can kill somebody from your side of the job you should always try to cancel their attacks until their buffs stop.

Nukes are only for grinding.

[Hideoki]

Well i dont use any wep skills, im one of the only on my server that i know of! But most the people my level i walk through, and they all comment on how hard my nukes hit! Max snow shield, 2 max nukes and good bufs for both str and mag! I am level 67 right now on my latest char, and have killed many level 72-74 builds! Ofcourse my gear is fully pimped etc.

The matter of fact is simple, no wep nukers require snow shield! They also require a last ditch castle shield....though low level and just under 200 + def...it helps allot! But yeah, with my nukes and great gear..along with knowing how to use the build in pvp and not just button smashing and standing still..i fair very well in pvp!

Granted, the wep skills help..look cool etc! But they arent essential what so ever!

[Stress]

Here is my view on nukes in PvP. I own a level 70 INT hybrid spear, and a level 70 pure INT S&S. Things might change slightly at 80, but I'm going to present my experience with nukes in PvP (also with video examples).

Nukes are great openers. As a nuker, you would want to damage your enemy as much as possible before he reaches you. Ideally, the nuke should land just when the enemy is about to reach you. You can then continue, with a Soul Spear or a Knockdown. Also, I always nuke when I'm knocked back. Flame wave bomb is perfect for the purpose.

Alternatively, it's a good idea to nuke if you need to phantom walk (in order to avoid dieing). You want to have your enemy repot as little as possible, while you are phantom walking.

I would never nuke in the middle of a fight (except after a Knockdown and Stab). It leaves you exposed, and also, offers the enemy time to pot/deliver an attack.

Hypothetical situation. The hybrid spear damages the opponent (a blader) pretty much with the soul spear, leaving him with 3k HP after a series of SSE, SSS and Windless. The spear decides to nuke. In the 3 seconds it takes to nuke, the blader recovers some HP, and manages to knock the spear down. After the knockdown, the blader has recovered plenty of HP, delivers a status and kills shortly afterwards. The spear could much easier have used GSM or a series of lion shouts to kill the blader from the start.

It's all about using the right skills at the right time, pace control and effectiveness of the damage applied. However, this only comes with lots of battle experience and knowledge of the game.

IMO:
Here are examples of the right way and the wrong way of nuking, in the same video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV8SWKau4aU

Right way of nuking: 1:21, 2:36

Wrong way of nuking: 1:56, 4:20

[Snoopy]

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Only beginners use weapon skills instead of only nukes.

Watch past the middle.

Are they 1v1ing in that? A. No.

The int is just trying to do as much damage as possible without making statuses / or trying to stay alive for the most part. I nuke a lot more in Jobwars.