After Death- My Theory

TuMadRe · Post by **TuMadRe** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:59 am

mmm dude i live thinkin of my life rite now and never look what will happen in the future... except for college a carrer an that stuff... the thing is u gotta live ur life to the fullest an not worry what or when death will happen, when it happens, it will happen an i also believe everything happens for a reason so the day that i die will be because sumthing else triggered it... but yea back to the life to the fullest man live ur life as best as u can an dont think about what will happen after its over... like the saying goes SHIT HAPPENS

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:37 am

hey San, interesting theory, kinda sounds like transcendentalism; your description kinda reminded me of purgatory

personally i believe that when i die i will go to God's kingdom

Midori · Post by **Midori** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:50 am

I believe you just rot in the ground.

Grandpa · Post by **Grandpa** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:16 pm

X-Lax wrote:I believe you just rot in the ground.

If by "you" what you mean is the body that you live in, I think you're absolutely correct. As far as "life after death" goes...

One has to ask themselves, "What if I'm wrong?"

Everybody has been wrong at one time or another, usually it's no big deal. I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out that I was mistaken. Does that make me wrong to the 2nd Power (WRONG)² ??

So then if we're thinking there IS life after death and we do things to have a better afterlife but we're wrong and we just are dead, well... so what?

But if we are thinking there is NO life (like I've been accused of for playing online games) but we're wrong and there is? Well... evaluate: "What is the cost of the average mistake?"

inky · Post by **inky** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:12 am

Grandpa wrote:If by "you" what you mean is the body that you live in, I think you're absolutely correct. As far as "life after death" goes...

One has to ask themselves, "What if I'm wrong?"

Everybody has been wrong at one time or another, usually it's no big deal. I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out that I was mistaken. Does that make me wrong to the 2nd Power (WRONG)² ??

So then if we're thinking there IS life after death and we do things to have a better afterlife but we're wrong and we just are dead, well... so what?

But if we are thinking there is NO life (like I've been accused of for playing online games) but we're wrong and there is? Well... evaluate: "What is the cost of the average mistake?"

Cut the crap. Sugar-coating it won't make it any less disgusting that it truly is. You're basically implying that since people prefer to differ, that is to rely on logic and reason rather than subscribing to superstition, they will suffer "consequences" (which in most cases means going to hell or purgatory, etc). Whether you realize it or not, you're playing the role of a puppet who uses fear as a tool to exploit others. Yes, it might be an assumption, but it is a fact-based hypothesis. Unlike people who believe in an afterlife, people who subscribe to rational empiricism could easily correlate the roles of dead brain cells with the lack of brain activity. Therefore, it would logical to conclude that a person with no mental activity is not able to think or use any of his/her senses which means that he/she is not able to experience "life" after death.

Of course you could always argue that the brain and other organs are unnecessary since it's the person's supernatural spirit but that would only mean arguing out of ignorance since there is no basis for it. Besides, isn't that considered to be the trump card of people who believe in supernatural magic? That science does not apply to your so-called spirituality?

Anotherplyer · Post by **Anotherplyer** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:00 am

I've always believed in reincarnation, whether it be anything at all

Reise · Post by **Reise** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:13 am

Sad fact is if you're religious there's a decent chance you're going to hell anyway. So it's either rot underground and be dead, or burn in hell. Now you can spend all your years being religious and virtuous and repenting for every sin your humanity is responsible for and still end up in the pit of flame, or you can live your life how you want and rot in the dirt.

And if you happen to be wrong, it won't matter since everybody goes to hell anyway, and you'll have lived the life you wanted. The few that make it to heaven will be bored, since most of their friends who loved to live life will be either rotting in the dirt, or being whipped by satan's cronies.

Also, if you DO end up just rotting in the dirt, you and your zombie brethren can take over Earth when they finally rise.

Grandpa · Post by **Grandpa** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:10 am

I agree about "religious" people for the most part.

The "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die," sentiment is hardly new.

Grandpa · Post by **Grandpa** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:18 am

inky wrote:
Grandpa wrote:If by "you" what you mean is the body that you live in, I think you're absolutely correct. As far as "life after death" goes...

One has to ask themselves, "What if I'm wrong?"

Everybody has been wrong at one time or another, usually it's no big deal. I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out that I was mistaken. Does that make me wrong to the 2nd Power (WRONG)² ??

So then if we're thinking there IS life after death and we do things to have a better afterlife but we're wrong and we just are dead, well... so what?

But if we are thinking there is NO life (like I've been accused of for playing online games) but we're wrong and there is? Well... evaluate: "What is the cost of the average mistake?"

Cut the crap. Sugar-coating it won't make it any less disgusting that it truly is. You're basically implying that since people prefer to differ, that is to rely on logic and reason rather than subscribing to superstition, they will suffer "consequences" (which in most cases means going to hell or purgatory, etc). Whether you realize it or not, you're playing the role of a puppet who uses fear as a tool to exploit others. Yes, it might be an assumption, but it is a fact-based hypothesis. Unlike people who believe in an afterlife, people who subscribe to rational empiricism could easily correlate the roles of dead brain cells with the lack of brain activity. Therefore, it would logical to conclude that a person with no mental activity is not able to think or use any of his/her senses which means that he/she is not able to experience "life" after death.

Of course you could always argue that the brain and other organs are unnecessary since it's the person's supernatural spirit but that would only mean arguing out of ignorance since there is no basis for it. Besides, isn't that considered to be the trump card of people who believe in supernatural magic? That science does not apply to your so-called spirituality?

First, I was expressing my opinion.
Second, your premise relies on a logical fallacy when you side yourself on the side of "people [who] prefer to differ". Take a look at this entire thread. Seems to me that mine is one of the few opinions that supports what could be called "traditional" thought. Hence, it would be me, not you, on the side of "people who prefer to differ".
Third, your thought about "Rational Empiricism" is founded on the Scientific Method and MUST (by definition) be based on observation. Since when did you observe what happens (or fails to happen) after death? Hence your statements are purely subjective because there is no method by which to measure any data unless (according to my first statement) by "you" what you mean is the body you live in.
You state, "you're playing the role of a puppet who uses fear as a tool to exploit others." Says who? Prove it.

I'd suggest you quit kidding yourself.

SaoKill · Post by **SaoKill** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:22 am

Isn't there a man who can stop his heart for a while, and still live? Or am I imagining? Though I saw something like that on Ripley's. Anyways, if there is, ask him!

San · Post by **San** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:58 am

The thing is the idea of salvation/heaven and hell

i mean, are you just gonna sit on your butt in heaven in like white lights with nothing to do except like talk to your 10000x great grandparents who you have nothing in common with?

And are you just gonna stand in hell burning? or like, having it rough for eternity?

it just doesn't sound that appealing

Grandpa · Post by **Grandpa** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:13 am

San wrote:If anyone knows what quantum mechanics are, then you may be able to understand my post a little better.

accordingly the quantum mechanics, every choice we make is like a roll of a dice. The choice you make is what you "rolled". However, based on quantum mechanics, every other possibility is played out in another dimension. My belief is that we may be reborn and replay all these events with each of the different outcomes.

San, I have read about quantum mechanics (some) but don't understand the math behind Ten (10) Dimensional theory so I can't reply. I did read your post earlier when you said,

San wrote:Rebirth, or reincarnation is a theory to what happens after death. you will survive death by being reborn into a new body. Now, when you are reborn, you will have no memories of past lives, events, or traits even.

Seems that you are one of the ones that believe that the "you" of who you are is more than the body you currently live in. Me too. Frankly, I don't know what that's gonna be like.

When you say, "every choice we make is like a roll of a dice", I'd tend to disagree. Sounds too fatalistic to my taste. When you conclude, "My belief is that we may be reborn and replay all these events with each of the different outcomes," I'd ask, to what end? I mean why? Not trying to argue with you that much, I do respect your opinion and your right to keep it, but am wondering if you followed through in your thinking to the "why" of it all.

-Grandpa

/Pi · Post by **/Pi** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:15 am

"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones." :wink:

mahumps · Post by **mahumps** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:15 am

SaoKill wrote:Isn't there a man who can stop his heart for a while, and still live? Or am I imagining? Though I saw something like that on Ripley's. Anyways, if there is, ask him!

Well there are lots of news here in my country that says people die for a couple of mins then lived again. Even doctors were amaze. A doctor declared that the person died, no heart beat and no breathing, but then a couple of mins later his heart started to pump blood again and started breathing again. When people ask him what he saw while his dead, he said that he saw a bright light with some flowers all over him. But personally I don't believe in the light and flower part. I think it's just his dream when he's still alive inside the operating room.

Well as I said before "don't fear death for everyone will die anyway".

inky · Post by **inky** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:50 pm

Grandpa wrote:1st:
Your premise relies on a logical fallacy when you side yourself on the side of "people [who] prefer to differ". Take a look at this entire thread. Seems to me that mine is one of the few opinions that supports what could be called "traditional" thought. Hence, it would be me, not you, on the side of "people who prefer to differ".
2nd:
Your thought about "Rational Empiricism" is founded on the Scientific Method and MUST (by definition) be based on observation. Since when did you observe what happens (or fails to happen) after death? Hence your statements are purely subjective because there is no method by which to measure any data unless (according to my first statement) by "you" what you mean is the body you live in.
3rd:
You state, "you're playing the role of a puppet who uses fear as a tool to exploit others." Says who? Prove it.

1st:
I'm basing my statement on the world's demographics for religion which states that approximately 96% of the world believes in some form of supernatural phenomena with regards to a higher power. Therefore, since the majority, if not all, of theistic/deistic beliefs, whether religious or not, involves some form of theory of an "afterlife," it could be argued that the majority of the world population does not believe that people simply cease to exist, physically and "spiritually."

2nd:
I agree; No, you cannot possibly observe and record personal experiences/phenomenas that occur after death. You could, however, observe what happens to a deceased person's body. I don't believe that I have to explain to you that tissues in the body decay due to the lack of oxygen circulation and absence of organ function. If you ever had any psychology or human biology classes, you would know that if our brain decays, it is impossible for a person/corpse to have any mental activity, whether voluntary or involuntary. Therefore, for a person to be able to argue that there is in fact an afterlife, you have to basically toss your biology textbook out of the window and disregard everything that opposes your point; which in colloquial language is known as pulling shit out of your ass (excuse my French).

3rd:

Grandpa wrote:But if we are thinking there is NO life but we're wrong and there is? Well... evaluate: "What is the cost of the average mistake?"

I think I've proven my point. Whether you know it or not, implicitly implying that people who do not believe in an afterlife could suffer consequences is pretty much the same as telling them that they have to or else.

Grandpa · Post by **Grandpa** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:33 pm

inky wrote:I think I've proven my point. Whether you know it or not, implicitly implying that people who do not believe in an afterlife could suffer consequences is pretty much the same as telling them that they have to or else.

No friend, you stated that I was exploiting others.
Per Dictionary.com
Exploit:

1. to utilize, esp. for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity.
2. to use selfishly for one's own ends: employers who exploit their workers.
3. to advance or further through exploitation; promote: He exploited his new movie through a series of guest appearances.

inky wrote:you're playing the role of a puppet who uses fear as a tool to exploit others.

Now you dodge the issue. Most likely due to lack of proof, something that you seem to like arguing about (things you cannot prove).
BTW, I note that you took it upon yourself to EDIT my post when you "quoted" me. What I actually said was:

First, I was expressing my opinion.
Second, your premise relies on a logical fallacy...

In summary, you misstated my first point.
You agreed with what you called my second point.
You failed to prove your allegation when challenged, that I was somehow exploiting others.

I do think that you have a right to your OPINION but this is defined as using one's cognitive powers of judgment, conceptualization or inference (your inference is not necessarily my implication, but it's a common enough mistake) to your thinking. According to Rational Empiricism, valid thoughts must have some basis in fact and your speculation that since your mind ceases to function upon death, you yourself (whatever that is) must also cease, doesn't by your own admission. The question becomes, have you established sufficient factual basis to support a logical conclusion?

The fact that you edited my first point out when I said, and I quote, "I was expressing my opinion," and refrained from stating that your statements were also in the realm of opinion says a lot to me about you. Again, I suggest you quit kidding yourself.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more, but this forum was about San's theory and not the proper venue for our private discussion.

inky · Post by **inky** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:35 pm

Okay. So you were expressing your opinion. I disregarded that point because I find it irrelevant. To be honest, I really don't care if you were ranting, expressing your point, or marching in Washington DC. It's not because I have lack of proof. I think that if you look around, there's an abundance of it. People who imply that those who refuse to believe in an afterlife would suffer consequences are trying to exploit others by spreading fear therefore linking the situation with all sorts of religious BS about blind faith and repenting for our sins. That's simply how I see it.

bLuE_fLaMe · Post by **bLuE_fLaMe** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:54 pm

i like the theory but if you really think closely on how the whole matter of existence works well it's just a big loop that it getting smaller. deja-vu, you feel that its happened before right well thats where this loop comes in, it probably did happen trillions of years ago. so after death you just wait trillions of years and evolve all over again. that what i think of it as, kinda got the idea from the objects in the known universe that all follow the properties of gravity and they are round,
probably is the same for are existence. thats what i put of it

Grandpa · Post by **Grandpa** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:05 am

There is an old Chinese saying:

Old Chinese Saying wrote:One cannot speak to a well frog about the ocean.

nohunta · Post by **nohunta** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:13 am

I once believed that we never die, just to other people we die yet we still live on in our own little reality.

Praseodymium · Post by **Praseodymium** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:04 am

am think am will go hotan when am die. am think there will be no gold sellers and can live in harmony with hebalist bori.

San · Post by **San** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:05 am

Praseodymium wrote:am think am will go hotan when am die. am think there will be no gold sellers and can live in harmony with hebalist bori.

um, ok

STARNATION · Post by **STARNATION** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:56 am

Praseodymium wrote:am think am will go hotan when am die. am think there will be no gold sellers and can live in harmony with hebalist bori.

I hope your just joking.

Grimm-.- · Post by **Grimm-.-** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:42 am

Imo...
These theory's are thought of by people who fear death...Who probably want to carry out future ideas in a certain way...
In reality There will be nothing after death. when you die there will not be an after life there will be nothing you will feel nothing there will be no you you will have no thoughts because you do not exist and there will just be no more you will be forgotten
yes>>> the thought of that is pretty horrifying but then again that is just another theory
but a more probable one

San · Post by **San** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:43 am

Grimm-.- wrote:Imo...
These theory's are thought of by people who fear death...Who probably want to carry out future ideas in a certain way...
In reality There will be nothing after death. when you die there will not be an after life there will be nothing you will feel nothing there will be no you you will have no thoughts because you do not exist and there will just be no more you will be forgotten
yes>>> the thought of that is pretty horrifying but then again that is just another theory
but a more probable one

nothing and being forgotten doesnt sound all too fun...

Grimm-.- · Post by **Grimm-.-** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:46 am

No... It dosn't
Maybe you can go invent a time machine and be remembered forever..good luck...

And nothing wut?

San · Post by **San** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:49 am

Grimm-.- wrote:No... It dosn't
Maybe you can go invent a time machine and be remembered forever..good luck...

And nothing wut?

you said nothing after death

and its strangely like the after death and ending of deathnote (what you said)

Grimm-.- · Post by **Grimm-.-** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:59 am

Oh...I see what you did there...Just interpreted that wrong

Grandpa · Post by **Grandpa** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:57 pm

Personally I like this thread about "After Death" but sometimes people think it's ok to attack others for their beliefs even today. Why is that?

STARNATION · Post by **STARNATION** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:05 pm

I guess we'll all find out for ourselves when the time comes.

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