Setting up a Venus legit Confederation

[Fly]

Confederation Charter
Confederation Forum

I have been thinking about this for a long long time now. With the bot bans venus has been flooded with new players able to log in and play. The 3 legit unions now have more members then I can keep track of.

I was thinking about setting up an elected group of players from each union (Avalon, BHA, Odyssey) to handle the financial side of getting the legits on venus together, equipted, partied up with players there level, and playing well together. Should parties be unable to be found, paying a resonable plvl fee for players to reach the min party area (SungSungs).

If there is enough intrest, I will work on drafting a basic structure. If anyone is wondering how much power/influence this "council" will have, well, its basic start up treasury would be around 500 million gold. Enough to make moderate guilds into a powerhouse and tempt weak/failing guilds into sucessfull merges into better stable ones.

It would be fair. All 3 unions having a equal number of votes on all issues. Any rivalry/war between member guilds will not affect the fairness. Each 3 union leaders having a direct and unchallanged veto to stop any abuse of the system.

As more fortress open up, goldbots make tons for jangan, and legits flood venus, the treasury would increase every 2 weeks at a fast rate. Once all guilds are strong and established, it can be used on events, tornements, prize money, rewards, or leverage over the bot guilds.

If you think this would be a good idea, please post here. I think we have a unique oppertunity here on venus to create something epic and unrivaled in all of SRO. A server ruled by a legit government formed from all legit guilds working together for the common goal

[Barotix]

Sounds like Communism. I'm a Anarcho - Capitalist so i say NO, on the issue of Government. I prefer Self Government in which a Free-Market prevails. Government regulations, especially totalitarian ones are not in my favor.

Giving unchecked power to three people? No, now a Democracy in which Free-Market economics is encouraged rather than this Care-Bare stuff I'm all for.

Social Darwinism.
Free-Market economics.
Loose Democratic rule.

We would need to draft a constitution, and would this be considered a Confederation? Another matter: Which Union leader has the most power, and how are the put in check.

We need checks and balances to prevent corruption which will involve Government controlled restrictions, but who is governing who?

EDIT: Hmm, rule of the majority through 3 benevolent dictators chosen by the people? How far would the reach of said dictators be? Meh, i think i misunderstood your idea and am just rambling on about nonsense >.>

[Fly]

Communism? not at all. the 3 union leaders can only stop actions, not start them. i was thinkg 10 people from each of the 3 unions would be the ones in charge. each union figures out on there own how they pick these 10 people to represent them. these people can not be guild leaders.

2/3rds vote to make something happen. no union leader has the most power. other then to stop something they think is unfair, they have no power at all. constitution? maybe. Confederation? yes.

as for the rest, that would only be needed if enough people are interested.

but who is governing who?

The legit players of venus are governing the legit cause and direction of venus.

[Barotix]

Communism? not at all. the 3 union leaders can only stop actions, not start them. i was thinkg 10 people from each of the 3 unions would be the ones in charge. each union figures out on there own how they pick these 10 people to represent them. these people can not be guild leaders.

2/3rds vote to make something happen. no union leader has the most power. other then to stop something they think is unfair, they have no power at all. constitution? maybe. Confederation? yes.

as for the rest, that would only be needed if enough people are interested.

but who is governing who?

The legit players of venus are governing the legit cause and direction of venus.

OK, now that it is all laid out, I agree. The reach isn't as far as i first thought out, good idea on your part fly. A confederation for the betterment of Venus.

[Fly]

Communism? not at all. the 3 union leaders can only stop actions, not start them. i was thinkg 10 people from each of the 3 unions would be the ones in charge. each union figures out on there own how they pick these 10 people to represent them. these people can not be guild leaders.

2/3rds vote to make something happen. no union leader has the most power. other then to stop something they think is unfair, they have no power at all. constitution? maybe. Confederation? yes.

as for the rest, that would only be needed if enough people are interested.

but who is governing who?

The legit players of venus are governing the legit cause and direction of venus.

OK, now that it is all laid out, I agree. The reach isn't as far as i first thought out, good idea on your part fly. A confederation for the betterment of Venus.

dont get me wrong, i like the current system (1b gold in my inventory ) but it sure can be put to better use. and im sure given enough collective minds, they can figure out a good way to use this gold so that everyone benefits in some way.

[Waisha]

I love how Barotix took this to a political level and made something it's not.

[Captain Tycoon]

Its a great idea, but It might not be as easy to set up. You'd need to watch out for those who just join a guild, get some of the dosh and leave. What's stopping a guild from asking/taking more than what they need?

I think more information on this would clear things up...Its a great idea though, I'm not trying to put it down I'd love to see it in action.

[MrBow]

lol barotix
I like the idea Fly +1

[Skyve]

Lmfao @ Barotix
I say,Yes =D
But we should take attention to corrupt player that just joins and kkthxbai after

[deathtoall]

Nice idea man, very well thought out. But we would need to make sure to weed out the ones that just come to the server for free rides, and or gear.

[non ego man]

This is a very generous offer, Fly. You're been so helpful contributing guild leveling costs and emblem costs already. Like I said in another thread, the support on Venus is contagious. I've always helped my guildmates and friends, but on Venus I do it with even less reservation, lol. Everyone in Asylum knows our various policies on sharing/borrowing and not one person has abused the system. Yeah, we'll eventually get someone who takes advantage of our goodwill, but so far it's proven that the gains far outweigh the losses. I've given away so much gold to new guildies, I've only got 280k left lmao.

I would not recommend 10 representatives from each union. I think it is unmanageable and bound to create drama. Too many people means more opportunities for someone to feel slighted and start bitching. Other reasons also but I won't detail them here. It would be nice to have a rep from each guild and 3 from the lead (if that's how you got to 10) but I think a much more manageable number would be 3 from each union with a total of 9. A majority of 5 then controls.

Also, one of the great purposes of this that was mentioned before (but not in your post) would be to pay for bot traps. I didn't have much success getting union members to trap (which I understand, I'm not complaining - it wastes ticket time and time that could be spent grinding) but if someone was able to earn, lets say 1M per hour trapping in Jangan, 2M per hour trapping in DW and 3M in Hotan, there might be a lot more takers.

Anyway, those are my initial thoughts and thanks again for making this offer.

[foudre]

only problem i see are the leavers, you gear them out and plvl them to a party lvl and they just quit, how ever the investment would be a good idea to keep them interested and give them a decent start on the server.

[[SD]bizzle]

i like the idea, the take and leave thing is ganno be a problem like everyone has said. i think all union has their own sites or meeting forums right, so why dont those who want the opportunity to be 1 of those 10 people in their union apply then the whole union can vote and the top 10 people who got the most vote are chosen.

[Fly]

For the take and leave problem, I think a 2/3rd vote + 3 people who can veto will be more then enough to keep the problem from not happening.

Confederation Outline - Check it out and tell me what you think. Befor it can happen, all 3 union leaders will need to agree.


if you think its a good idea, contact your guild/union leaders and make them take a look. if everyone agrees, we will take it to the next level and implament it.

[Barotix]

wow, I'm liking this. Except I fear it might strangle the triangular conflict, especially for thieves.

[---Rev---]

I think Chanellor Kari has a nice ring to it



I have some additions or maybe simply future recomendations what ever you want to call them:

No new guild should be made untill people have been asigned guild spots in the already formed guilds, it is better to have 24 50/50 guilds than 50 20/50 guilds.

While people can apply to join certain guilds it is not guaranteed that they will be accepted into the guild, it is the senates duty to make sure all guilds have an even spread of classes from each timezone.

However exceptions can be made if a group of freinds come to the server together.

There should be no pressure placed on people to choose european classes of characters and they should recieve the same treatment as the euros do. HOWEVER if somebody makes a chinese character, they should allow euros into plvl and normal 8 man pts before them.

Chinese players should not join pts unless there is a spot avaliable and should voluntarily leave the pt when a Euro class that is needed logs in, or if a euro with is seeking a pt within the level range of the pt.

It is not the players duty to seek gears out for Senators to buy them, Senators should elect a member that will take care of purchasing the gears on a weekly basis that the new players will need. Inorder to avoid problems no sos gears will be bought, and no alchemy or elixers will be purchased with the funds.

It is the players responsibility to seek out the senator incharge of purchaing inorder to return the gears as soon as they have outgrown them, gears suplpied by the senate are to be returned not sold.

If ANYBODY is found to break any of the rules put in place they will loose all of the privilages and will have to go it alone in monetary and leveling terms.

All members of the senate must be members of this forum, there will be a thread were senators will cast their votes, this is to avoid confusion and misscomunication in game.


The payment of bot trapping is a good idea, for low level players it is an expensive thing to do, while the higher you get the cheaper it is to do. However I do believe that the lower the actual gold cost gets the higher the loss of grind time gets so it does even out. I think paying for people to bot trap is a very good idea, if we can get a regular trap up it will have a very big effect and with peopel geting paid to do it I think that it is realistic to assume that we can have a nearly daily trap up.

[ThisIsAvalon]

Triple houses seems to work the best, such as a: Senate, Triumvirate and Citizen vote. Checks and balances of 2 parties would keep the 3rd one from being to powerful, in theory. Or, we could just do the Athens way, with everyone having 1 vote. Setup a system where you gotta login, register your vote on a website, and you can't vote more then 1 time for something.

[Dian Jie]

Sounds like a lot of fun to be honest Only one way to find out if it will work or not...

DO IT!

If anything, it will be a hell of a ride and a fun/learning one too.

Got my vote(s)

[[SD]Kratos]

so u gonna take new players...and send them to a guild ...

Ok im lost lol, explain with easy word like...the cherry on the cake etc

[Captain Tycoon]

The Three Union Leaders, there powers,

What about other Unions? Would they be able to join the Confederation?

[ryanh55]

I am in.. I sort of did something like this for my guild members on Pacific.. bought all sorts of sos for them.. let them use it.. lost some but was happy to help most of the time.... So count me in!

Ryan

[Toasty]

Sounds great.. will encourage more and more legits to join the server.. and why would anyone swap to another server when this is happening. I love venus!

[Kewtie]

With out it being any more complicated, keeping it in its pure-ish form.... I get the purpose of the original proposal. Venus already has so much of a different vibe than any other server and it would be great to have one more resource for the legit players.

I have some really great ppl in our guild/union. These are ppl that I believe would be great for this council. The only thing I have a concern about is meeting the number of 10 people from each union. I would not feel comfortable nominating people that I do not feel would truely be good choices, just for the sake of hitting the lucky number 10.

I believe that with the right people this could really hurt the "economy" of the bot/a-hole players. By taking a more active approach to finding/ setting up parties, less players will be tempted to pay for plvl service. By having legit players willing to to do plvl and maybe recieve reimbursement for pots etc, there will be less reason for legits to pay for plvl from bots/A-holes.

If I have concern, it is that making it to complex to quickly will be its downfall. I would say that new methods and policies could be added as time goes by and if the system is working. "Venus" wasn't built in a day. (lol) But in 4 months we have already taken substantial control in a totally out of control game. LEGITS FTW!

[AngelEyes]

Following Kewtie's advice in keeping it simple to start with, in a future expansion of the idea you might want to think of a judicial arm of the Confederation to deal with issues like suspected botting, KS unique's, parties stealing another grinding spot, scamming and other issues that arise between members in an effort to maybe keep the drama down on the server. Of course the rules wouldn't apply to those outside the confederation. But really this would help keep friends in the game friends if there was some 3rd party to turn to solve disputes, and if you're going to go through all the trouble to organize a 'gov't' you might as well have a court to settle disputes.

[Guardia]

Great idea. I'm supporting it 100%. Just tell me what to do. It's for Venus after all.

[Fly]

Your right, simple is better to begin with. I modified it a bit. Merged 2 positions so there wont be confussion.

Confederation Charter

also, 1 representitive from each guild should not be too hard to do. any guild too lazy to pick one loses its vote and the union lead guild can choose someone to fill that spot until they wake up and smell the freash air.

its current form is very simple. later if all goes well and the 1st group of representivies meet, they can discusse and vote on new additions and regulations that will help them accomplish there goals of:

- 24/7 bot traps
- help to get all euro members in all 3 unions to level 32+
- finding, storing, distributing, and retiriving gear
- keeping parties full and playing leveling

any type of rule or regulation that they think they may need in order to accomplish any of those goals will need to be made and debated by them.

[MrBow]

- finding, storing, distributing, and retiriving gear

At this moment i see 'Ruloor' from SD selling his lvl 32 sos +5 staff for 20 mil. I asked him why not keep it in the union but he doesn't know what a union is .... xD
So i gave up.

[WrathShielder]

Sounds interesting and I will repeat what has been said: keep it as simple as possible at least at first and it will be much more successful. Draft looks good and thought out.

Additional Suggestions made:
I am a little leery of telling someone what guild/union they can join just based on their build/class or some other reason. If someone parties with a particular group from mostly say X guild and really clicks and decides to join but is then told, "well if you want to be a part of this you have to join Y guild", I don't think that is going to work.

[[SD]Kratos]

I dont think we can force people to give their items to union though, if they wanna stall they can.

Actually im not too sure about this idea as i dont get it

[non ego man]

A few more thoughts:

I agree with Kewtie re: simplicity and glad to see it a bit streamlined.

I think the Chancellor should be elected by the Senate, not by a general vote of all members. If the Chancellor is the "Speaker of the House" or the "Chairman of the Board" it should be the house/board that elects that person.

What defines "active" members? Rev6 is a starting point but Asylum, for example, only shows 19 active members. One of my members (level 32) only just showed up today for the first time. Self-reporting is fine but I imagine people will fudge a little to get to 20. Right now, Asylum has 35 members including 2 alts and 2-3 inactives.

I would not say "16 votes minimum..." but simply "a majority." I assume we'll have full unions of qualified guilds but that may not always be the case. Also, some actions may require a super-majority (2/3) but thats for the senate to decide.

Of course the key to this will be communication. The forum format may not be adequate for the discussions that are necessary...not sure. I know that there are gear tracking modules for WoW for borrowing guild items but I don't know if they can be modified for SRO or w/e.

EDIT: And there seems to be some confusion about the concept so let me try and put it in my own words (which may or may not be correct, lol):

Fly has a pool of gold that he uses to support the legit community on Venus. Individually, he's payed for guild leveling fees, emblem fees, gear, etc for other legits on the server. He now wants to turn the administration of this resource over to the legit community. In order to prevent its abuse, he wants to establish protocols so that the most good comes from the pool of money. Ideally, the effect of this confederation will be to use the gold to even better purposes than Fly could.

For example, if Fly decided to pay for bot traps, he'd have to monitor all 3 gates of all three cities 24/7 to make sure someone didn't lie to just steal his money. Likewise, if he didn't pay someone quick enough or someone's email got lost, that person would make a big fuss about how Fly is such a dick. Fly doesn't want to deal with that. But he does want to build an even stronger legit community.

So now the community can decide how to make itself better. It's not about power. It's not about drama. It's not about selfishness. It's about making this game fun for legits. He's sharing his resources to accomplish this goal.

No individual player is required to contribute their gear to the cause. If you get a drop and want to sell it and keep the money for when you get to 6x and 7x, more power to you. I've seen extraordinary actions in my own guild. One guy who got an SoM wep drop and sold it has given probably 15M to various members of the guild. I got a good deal on a bunch of SoS, bought as much as I could, and put it all in GS for the other members.

Fly is just doing this same thing but on a grander scale. In order to prevent abuse and broaden support, he's establishing joint administration of the fund. Seems like a pretty cool deal to me.