God vs Science (God wins o.0)

[HawaiianMix]

OMG I love Dead Prez!

"I'm African. Never was an African-American! Blacker than black, I take it back to my origins!" hehehe

Then you will love this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ZpYFUZAdI

"I don't believe in no gods and no form of religion. My way of living is based on pure reality. Far much more than a crack selling mentality." - Stic.man

[Silver0]

who cares honestly just keep your **** church people off my lawn and your **** god conversations to yourself

[l05tfr33k7]

hmm i only read the first 2 pages of this thread...very interesting.
i pose a simple question to the atheists or people who dont believe in GOD and believe in the Big Bang theory:

Science says that the big bang made the universe out of a "singularity", and it also supports the theory that all matter comes from some other matter, then where did that "singularity" comoe fro in the first place? or in other words, where did that first "dense and hot" thing or "singularity" come from that was to make the big bang which was to supposedly make the universe.

also for those who dont believe in the afterlife or heaven/hell or judgment:
so ur telling me that i have the right to make the choice of committing a crime right now, whether it be to kill someone, and be smart enough to escape justice and the law for my entire life. Then i die...period. Then what? I simply got away with it all and i get no punishment? And ur telling me u just die...evyerhting just blacks out. ofcourse many of u say that we cant prove all the stuff that religion says happens aftter death, but then prove to me that it doesnt or simply prove to me that eveyrthing blanks out after death.

some say that religious people are just afraid of that thought that there is nothing after death, but i say ur afraid of believing otherwise.

i may not be a smartass who can use clever tricks in arguments to confuse the other, but i do know some "facts".

dont flame me, im looking for a smart discussion.

[JacksColon]

hmm i only read the first 2 pages of this thread...very interesting.
i pose a simple question to the atheists or people who dont believe in GOD and believe in the Big Bang theory:

Science says that the big bang made the universe out of a "singularity", and it also supports the theory that all matter comes from some other matter, then where did that "singularity" comoe fro in the first place? or in other words, where did that first "dense and hot" thing or "singularity" come from that was to make the big bang which was to supposedly make the universe.

Because science doesn't have all the answers yet, doesn't mean we won't find out at some point. some theories suggest that the universe is one among many and that when universes come into contact, big bangs occur, or, that the universe is ever-expanding, but will eventually cool off and contract, and over many billions (perhaps trillions of years) it will contract in on itself, forming a singularity again, and immediately exploding in another big bang...and this could have been occuring countless times....but, some are straying away now, thinking the universe will expand forever and eventualy, a human on earth (just an example, earth will be long gone) would not be able to see anything in the night sky because everything would have disappeared "over the horizon" so to speak...nothing would be visible basically.

also for those who dont believe in the afterlife or heaven/hell or judgment:
so ur telling me that i have the right to make the choice of committing a crime right now, whether it be to kill someone, and be smart enough to escape justice and the law for my entire life. Then i die...period. Then what? I simply got away with it all and i get no punishment? And ur telling me u just die...evyerhting just blacks out. ofcourse many of u say that we cant prove all the stuff that religion says happens aftter death, but then prove to me that it doesnt or simply prove to me that eveyrthing blanks out after death.

Get away with no punishment? Yes. Why MUST there be punishment in an "afterlife"? you're still holding on to what you've been told since you were a kid about heaven, hell, god, the devil..good, evil, etc. also, like I've said, the onus is not on science to prove that heaven or w/e does not exists because those are supernatural ideas...for those that claim it DOES exist must provide evidence to scientists, but they cannot, except for a book.

some say that religious people are just afraid of that thought that there is nothing after death, but i say ur afraid of believing otherwise.

afraid of what? what's more scary? the idea that human life isn't as special as we think it is? or the idea that if I pray and believe in god, I can have all the so-called wonders of heaven? eternal life? hot orgies? etc? I mean, it seems to me to be much more scary to believe what i do.

i may not be a smartass who can use clever tricks in arguments to confuse the other, but i do know some "facts".

and what "facts" would these be?

dont flame me, im looking for a smart discussion.

[XemnasXD]

hmm i only read the first 2 pages of this thread...very interesting.
i pose a simple question to the atheists or people who dont believe in GOD and believe in the Big Bang theory:

Science says that the big bang made the universe out of a "singularity", and it also supports the theory that all matter comes from some other matter, then where did that "singularity" comoe fro in the first place? or in other words, where did that first "dense and hot" thing or "singularity" come from that was to make the big bang which was to supposedly make the universe.

also for those who dont believe in the afterlife or heaven/hell or judgment:
so ur telling me that i have the right to make the choice of committing a crime right now, whether it be to kill someone, and be smart enough to escape justice and the law for my entire life. Then i die...period. Then what? I simply got away with it all and i get no punishment? And ur telling me u just die...evyerhting just blacks out. ofcourse many of u say that we cant prove all the stuff that religion says happens aftter death, but then prove to me that it doesnt or simply prove to me that eveyrthing blanks out after death.

some say that religious people are just afraid of that thought that there is nothing after death, but i say ur afraid of believing otherwise.

i may not be a smartass who can use clever tricks in arguments to confuse the other, but i do know some "facts".

dont flame me, im looking for a smart discussion.

If your going to bring up the "where did the big bang from" argument we can simply throw that in reverse and say "where did God come from"

If we could prove what happens after death this wouldn't be a discussion because lets face it ppl don't believe in god to live better lives, they believe in God because they believe it will ensure them a safe passage after death. All doctrines of Christianity preach that if you do ad things you go to Hell. This isn't to scare ppl into doing good things but to provide a reverse, the reverse being if you do good things you get into Heaven. They could just as simply say if you do bad things after you do you become nothing and still get the same reaction out of ppl. Hell is just a bit more scary of an idea because its easier to visualize and imagine.

People believe in God so that when they die they have a certainty of what will happen to them after death. I cannot think of a single person who doesn't care what happens to themselves or other when they die that still believes in God. There is no reason.

Man was not meant to be eternal nothing is eternal. If it turned out that was the case yes i would be unnerved because it would mean the universe is in a perpetual state of stagnation and therefore decay. But i don't believe this to be the case. The world long b4 people believed in a being named "God" and it will exist long after them. There is no punishment after death its s stupid reason to think so the punishment as i said earlier is only to make the idea of a reward all the more sweeter. The day ppl stop feeling as though they need someone to tell them what the wrong thing is in order for them not to do it will be the day Mankind grows up becomes more than it has ever been b4.

[ArchYourFace]

also for those who dont believe in the afterlife or heaven/hell or judgment:
so ur telling me that i have the right to make the choice of committing a crime right now, whether it be to kill someone, and be smart enough to escape justice and the law for my entire life. Then i die...period. Then what? I simply got away with it all and i get no punishment? And ur telling me u just die...evyerhting just blacks out. ofcourse many of u say that we cant prove all the stuff that religion says happens aftter death, but then prove to me that it doesnt or simply prove to me that eveyrthing blanks out after death.

id like to respond to this, in doing so id first like to know which brand of religion you subscribe.

[l05tfr33k7]

hmm i only read the first 2 pages of this thread...very interesting.
i pose a simple question to the atheists or people who dont believe in GOD and believe in the Big Bang theory:

Science says that the big bang made the universe out of a "singularity", and it also supports the theory that all matter comes from some other matter, then where did that "singularity" comoe fro in the first place? or in other words, where did that first "dense and hot" thing or "singularity" come from that was to make the big bang which was to supposedly make the universe.

also for those who dont believe in the afterlife or heaven/hell or judgment:
so ur telling me that i have the right to make the choice of committing a crime right now, whether it be to kill someone, and be smart enough to escape justice and the law for my entire life. Then i die...period. Then what? I simply got away with it all and i get no punishment? And ur telling me u just die...evyerhting just blacks out. ofcourse many of u say that we cant prove all the stuff that religion says happens aftter death, but then prove to me that it doesnt or simply prove to me that eveyrthing blanks out after death.

some say that religious people are just afraid of that thought that there is nothing after death, but i say ur afraid of believing otherwise.

i may not be a smartass who can use clever tricks in arguments to confuse the other, but i do know some "facts".

dont flame me, im looking for a smart discussion.

If your going to bring up the "where did the big bang from" argument we can simply throw that in reverse and say "where did God come from"

If we could prove what happens after death this wouldn't be a discussion because lets face it ppl don't believe in god to live better lives, they believe in God because they believe it will ensure them a safe passage after death. All doctrines of Christianity preach that if you do ad things you go to Hell. This isn't to scare ppl into doing good things but to provide a reverse, the reverse being if you do good things you get into Heaven. They could just as simply say if you do bad things after you do you become nothing and still get the same reaction out of ppl. Hell is just a bit more scary of an idea because its easier to visualize and imagine.

People believe in God so that when they die they have a certainty of what will happen to them after death. I cannot think of a single person who doesn't care what happens to themselves or other when they die that still believes in God. There is no reason.

Man was not meant to be eternal nothing is eternal. If it turned out that was the case yes i would be unnerved because it would mean the universe is in a perpetual state of stagnation and therefore decay. But i don't believe this to be the case. The world long b4 people believed in a being named "God" and it will exist long after them. There is no punishment after death its s stupid reason to think so the punishment as i said earlier is only to make the idea of a reward all the more sweeter. The day ppl stop feeling as though they need someone to tell them what the wrong thing is in order for them not to do it will be the day Mankind grows up becomes more than it has ever been b4.

Hmm i figured u would say where did GOD come from. If u ask that to any religious person, well the ones i have met, they would tell u that GOD cannot be defined. If GOD does indeed exist, then HE is the one who made science and all matter and the idea of time. In doing so shows that all scientific theories and proven facts have been made for whatever GOD made, not for HIMSELF. I agree with u that man was not to be eternal, but do u believe int eh spirit or soul? what about that? can u explain to me feelings and emotions? and for ur statement that religious ppl like to hold on to that certainty on what happens after death, would u rather hold onto the uncertainty of what happens? if u know whether ur actions have been good or not in this life, u would surely know where u would end up in the afterlife, if there even is one.

To Jacks: You say that science doesn't have all the answers yet, that also doesnt mean we will find out at some point. prove to me that we will find all the answers eventually. and all those theories u stated are just theories..nothing more, im not going against the idea of theories in general but those u have stated not only contradict religion's ideology on the creation of everything but contradict each other with respective scientific "evidence". the fact that scientific theories, like those, contradict each other shows just how wrong all but one are. and u cant find that one scientific theory that is correct?
on the subject of punishment, base don what u said that there is no punishment, then basically u can escape from the law by doing the worst of crimes if ur smart that is, and thats it...u just get "lucky" or are smart enough to not get caught and then u die...nothing more? sounds a messed up to me. and what about all the "crimes" or sinful thoughts, depending on what u consider sin, we all have in our heads one time or another. who is to judge that?

to arch: LOL what do u mean "brand of religion i subscribe to"?
if u mean what religion do i follow, i will say that i recently (about 1 yr ago) "re-became" a Muslim. i was born Muslim but became an atheist in my early teen yrs up to a yr from now

Edit: going away for a while, be back on to respond to all ur replies later.

[hootsh]

Seriously....if i've been in that class i would have clapped as hard as i could.

As for people who believe in evolution/dont believe in God...being so scientific as you are..you have to know that the mechanism of evolution itself cant be self developed alone..someone had to create it..something can not exist from nothing thats a commonly known rule since man existed on Earth...actually most of your arguments trying to prove that evolution exists depends on the fact that nothing can exist on its own from nothing..your own theory kinda objects on itself...i dont feel hatred or anger towards ppl who believe in evolution..i feel bad and sorry for them.

And also to answer all the "If God is there why dont he cure my toe/my kitten...etc" God created us and he's free to do whatever he wants to do/or not to do whatever he doesnt want to do..people have no right to judge God's decisions..its the other way around.

[JacksColon]

Hmm i figured u would say where did GOD come from. If u ask that to any religious person, well the ones i have met, they would tell u that GOD cannot be defined. If GOD does indeed exist, then HE is the one who made science and all matter and the idea of time. In doing so shows that all scientific theories and proven facts have been made for whatever GOD made, not for HIMSELF. I agree with u that man was not to be eternal, but do u believe int eh spirit or soul? what about that? can u explain to me feelings and emotions? and for ur statement that religious ppl like to hold on to that certainty on what happens after death, would u rather hold onto the uncertainty of what happens? if u know whether ur actions have been good or not in this life, u would surely know where u would end up in the afterlife, if there even is one.

To Jacks: You say that science doesn't have all the answers yet, that also doesnt mean we will find out at some point. prove to me that we will find all the answers eventually. and all those theories u stated are just theories..nothing more, im not going against the idea of theories in general but those u have stated not only contradict religion's ideology on the creation of everything but contradict each other with respective scientific "evidence". the fact that scientific theories, like those, contradict each other shows just how wrong all but one are. and u cant find that one scientific theory that is correct?
on the subject of punishment, base don what u said that there is no punishment, then basically u can escape from the law by doing the worst of crimes if ur smart that is, and thats it...u just get "lucky" or are smart enough to not get caught and then u die...nothing more? sounds a messed up to me. and what about all the "crimes" or sinful thoughts, depending on what u consider sin, we all have in our heads one time or another. who is to judge that?

you ask to prove the impossible. I can't prove what has yet to happen. I can't prove which theory is right because, they're fuckin' theories man. Your argument makes no sense. You rebut our claims by asking us to prove which theory is right and you yourself claim that they are all wrong. they are allowed to contradict certain aspects of rival theories because the only way to get close to the truth is to poke holes in theories and ideas and see which ones hold up. but, to argue with religious people is often pointless. it's their religion ,therefore poking holes in it is not allowed. so, I can sit here all day and give you countless reasons that you - and other religous people - believe is completely nuts in scientific discussions, but you will just continuously try to "disprove" science by evoking things such as "spirit" "heaven" etc. things that cannot be observed and/or tested experimentally. but, you just "know" they are right. c'mon

and regarding crimes, if you are smart enough to get away with these terrible crimes and the legal/justice system cannot work properly to bring you to trial and prison, then that doesn't make you a good person, it means that the person was smart enough to evade capture and/or the legal system failed. you will personally have to deal with what you did. if you die without capture, you probably had a shitty life on the run, but if not, well, that's how it goes. and if your conscience allows you to do such things without feeling remorse, that's absolutely terrible, but how does that affect me? Further, when you die, you're so stuck on their needing be someone to answer to. You don't seem to be able to reconcile the fact that humans are not as important as we think and that we must be punished for actions and even "sinful" thoughts. who says it's sinful? who defines sin? god? well, i don't believe in that. hell, if I want to think about ass-pounding scarlett johanson, which I do because she's Farking hot, who cares? what does that matter to you? if I want to bang 3 chicks at once and I'm not married to any of them, how does that matter to you or anyone? if it's what I enjoy??

to arch: LOL what do u mean "brand of religion i subscribe to"?
if u mean what religion do i follow, i will say that i recently (about 1 yr ago) "re-became" a Muslim. i was born Muslim but became an atheist in my early teen yrs up to a yr from now

Edit: going away for a while, be back on to respond to all ur replies later.

[avenqerz]

God Wins! WOOT!


Hey! My 50th post! And talking about God? It's all good!

[Nuklear]

I'd like to invite l05tfr33k7 and hootsh to read the whole thread. Most of the stuff you're bringing up was already discussed. For l05tfr33k7 to revert to Islam from being an Atheist means either he didn't become educated enough, or he was dropped as an infant.

[redneck]

You guys can all stfu nao k?

I'm looking forward to those hot orgies and 70 virgins and there isn't 1 thing you can say to keep me from believing in them.

[Nuklear]

and there isn't 1 thing you can say to keep me from believing in them.

Looks like no one can change your mind but you. It seems like it isn't working properly though.

[ArchYourFace]

to arch: LOL what do u mean "brand of religion i subscribe to"?
if u mean what religion do i follow, i will say that i recently (about 1 yr ago) "re-became" a Muslim. i was born Muslim but became an atheist in my early teen yrs up to a yr from now

So what lead you to become athiest? What lead you to reconvert.

[JacksColon]

to arch: LOL what do u mean "brand of religion i subscribe to"?
if u mean what religion do i follow, i will say that i recently (about 1 yr ago) "re-became" a Muslim. i was born Muslim but became an atheist in my early teen yrs up to a yr from now

So what lead you to become athiest? What lead you to reconvert.

how can you be born anything?

well, I guess it can happen, I was born badass!!

[Barotix]

to arch: LOL what do u mean "brand of religion i subscribe to"?
if u mean what religion do i follow, i will say that i recently (about 1 yr ago) "re-became" a Muslim. i was born Muslim but became an atheist in my early teen yrs up to a yr from now

So what lead you to become athiest? What lead you to reconvert.

how can you be born anything?

well, I guess it can happen, I was born badass!!

It means he was born into a Muslim household. I was born into a catholic household, but recently [like 2 years ago] started studying East Asian Philosophies. This discussion shouldve ended with that other one.

[Reise]

Seriously....if i've been in that class i would have clapped as hard as i could.

As for people who believe in evolution/dont believe in God...being so scientific as you are..you have to know that the mechanism of evolution itself cant be self developed alone..someone had to create it.

Uh what?

So God created evolution then? The same God that calls it sin to question him, developed evolution for scientists to understand and genuinely defy him by saying he isn't responsible for life on Earth and evolution is? Come on now.

God created us and he's free to do whatever he wants to do/or not to do whatever he doesnt want to do..people have no right to judge God's decisions.

Right, and you would believe something that conveniently tells you to obey without question, or face eternal damnation. While the people behind the scenes suddenly have an obedient following of believers. And yes, there are people behind the scenes. Religion doesn't just appear out of nowhere, somebody has to think it up or be "contacted by God" at some point. Still, sounds to me like a primitive form of government. No wonder the Romans wanted to crush Christianity, it was threatening their system.

[JacksColon]

No wonder the Romans wanted to crush Christianity, it was threatening their system.

+1 bud

Nero is my hero

[l05tfr33k7]

eh what i meant was that i was born into a Muslim household.
well i guess i should go back and read the other pages, but i had already stated in my first post in this thread that i only read the first. As for Nuklear, obviously i am not gonna respond to the negative comments ur giving since it will obviously be a flame back to u and it wont end then, so im just gonna stop here since the true point is getting out of hand with (personal?) flames imo.
hootsh what u said is exactly what i have been "trying" to say, to say the least. that everything comes from something and that is a scientific theory in itself. and the point is that the scientific theories that go "hand in hand" supposedly, actually contrast each other. I would like to see Jacks' reply to this. Anyways, this will be my last post (i guess) in this thread, since it seems interesting yet getting off topic with some stuff. I will go back and read the other pages in mean time

[Reise]

Yap these topics show up every so often but I think this one's just about done for now.

[Nuklear]

...

My comment was a joke, or a poke more accurately. If memory serves me, and not to well because I don't remember the specifics, I thought I heard about a few trials where something was created out of nothing, but not on purpose...I think. I wish I could remember and give a cite. Anyway, as already stated there are already many theories to the beginning and they wouldn't be very good theories if the weren't scientifically backed. I don't know enough about them, I don't care, but that's what google's for.

This all comes down to thinking logically or making stuff up with no scientific basis. I choose not to stake my intellect on a book.

[l05tfr33k7]

...

I choose not to stake my intellect on a book.

wouldn't both be better?
i believe religion and science go hand in hand. one can not be without the other. or so i assume.
k im done from this thread.
btw whoever said on forums that its hard to get out of OTL once u start posting there, its SOOO true...

[Nuklear]

i believe religion and science go hand in hand. one can not be without the other. or so i assume.

This is why you should've read the whole thread. They are actually opposites.
Instead of just accepting your religion you should really challenge it. After that, if you come out stronger in faith, so be it. If you come out an Atheist, even better.

[Bread_Fish]

Code: Select all

Code: Select all

(there are a few more of these interviews all with pretty good points)


oh and snakes cant talk.........(im suprised someone hasnt already said that)

[Nuklear]

Fantastic vid Fish.

[agent420]

F*CK GOD, ALLAH, JEHOVAH, I AM WHO AM, OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL HIM...jk
I LIVE IN FLORIDA WHERE IT IS NOW LEGAL TO TEACH THE SCIENTIFIC THEORY OF EVOLUTION!!!!


JACKSCOLON AND NUCLEAR FTW

[hootsh]

Seriously....if i've been in that class i would have clapped as hard as i could.

As for people who believe in evolution/dont believe in God...being so scientific as you are..you have to know that the mechanism of evolution itself cant be self developed alone..someone had to create it.

Uh what?

So God created evolution then? The same God that calls it sin to question him, developed evolution for scientists to understand and genuinely defy him by saying he isn't responsible for life on Earth and evolution is? Come on now.

God created us and he's free to do whatever he wants to do/or not to do whatever he doesnt want to do..people have no right to judge God's decisions.

Right, and you would believe something that conveniently tells you to obey without question, or face eternal damnation. While the people behind the scenes suddenly have an obedient following of believers. And yes, there are people behind the scenes. Religion doesn't just appear out of nowhere, somebody has to think it up or be "contacted by God" at some point. Still, sounds to me like a primitive form of government. No wonder the Romans wanted to crush Christianity, it was threatening their system.

I just said if there was such a thing as evolution then God wouldave been the one that made it..we will never know i guess if there was an evolution or not..all i am sure of right now is that some one created all this.
Do not reply to an argument with another argument..answer first...right now i'll ask you a Simple, Straight, And to the Point Question : If there was such a thing as evolution, and there was no God, then who created the whole mechanism of evolution itself?

Secondly who said anything about religions?..i was talking about God..i never said anything about religions its a whole other subject...i wont just blindly follow anyone who tells me God wants you to do that..that would be just stupid...if i sensed even a little bit of corruption or insanity in my religion i wouldave never followed it.

I did what Nuklear exactly said...i challenged my religion long ago and now i have more faith..all i'm saying is..dont try to explain something that cant be explained.

[l05tfr33k7]

...

...

...

...

I did what Nuklear exactly said...i challenged my religion long ago and now i have more faith...

+1000

[Nuklear]

I just said if there was such a thing as evolution then God wouldave been the one that made it..we will never know i guess if there was an evolution or not..all i am sure of right now is that some one created all this.

*smacks head*
There is such a thing as evolution. It has been proven and you know it as the theory of evolution.
How can you be sure someone created this? I know you don't have proof. Like I've stated before, in the absence of evidence you don't make shit up.

Do not reply to an argument with another argument..answer first...right now i'll ask you a Simple, Straight, And to the Point Question : If there was such a thing as evolution, and there was no God, then who created the whole mechanism of evolution itself?

See, you just assumed someone had to create all this. Stop that ffs. We have no evidence that anything supernatural has ever existed. I'll answer your question as: how did the mechanism of evolution occur? It's called natural selection, look it up. Your misunderstanding and lack of knowledge in science speaks volumes.

...i wont just blindly follow...that would be just stupid...

I couldn't have said it better. You are doing just that, blindly following. All you have to base your beliefs on are some oral stories and a couple books that have no scientific merit.

I did what Nuklear exactly said...i challenged my religion long ago and now i have more faith

Considering your knowledge of science and your reluctance to think outside faith I'd say it wasn't a very good challenge.

..all i'm saying is..dont try to explain something that cant be explained.

That's exactly what you're doing. Stuff that can't be explained = [insert god here].

[Reise]

Heh Nuklear took care of my reply for me.

BTW Hootsh, there was no argument to "answer". In the face of that much blind assumption, there's really only space for a plain reply.

Talking about God implies religion, and you can't believe in God without in turn believing blindly. It doesn't work any other way because that's what God and religion is based on, blind faith. At least with things like evolution, there are facts that scientists have found which support the theory.

The whole argument of science vs. faith is that either "somebody" did or didn't create everything. If you accept evolution, you're going against creationism, there is no middle ground. If you believe there is, you probably aren't totally faithful yourself.