Faith - False or?

[XemnasXD]

Thats why Science > Faith ... you see ... we think that there is something , until someone proves its wrong , false. that is the moment when Science conquers Faith ... We will ALL find out everything about God , about everything... then will Science conquer faith again ...it only needs time ... but it will happen for sure ...

You make it sound like science and Faith cannot coexist. I am a scientist, yet I am also a Christian. To me, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Yet what is science but the logical assumptions yet not proven wrong based on the knowledge that we have today? Faith on the other hand cannot be proven wrong; it can only be proven right, at which time it stops being Faith, and becomes fact in stead.

There was a time when faith was fact and ppl believed the sun revolved around the earth and earth was the center of the heavens.....that was proven wrong.

There was a time when faith was fact and ppl believed the world was flat because the bible makes no mention of it being round and actually supports the idea that it's flat...that was proven wrong


The difference between science and faith is that science is false until proven correct whereas faith is True until proven wrong and even then you don't have to accept it. Science in some issues is a form a faith but not in most just in the things that haven't yet been proven. You can't 100% believe everything written in the bible and call yourself a real scientist, theres way to much contradiction there. You can believe in God and still call yourself a scientist you'll just end up attributing everything science has proven to God. Either way IMO you lose some credibility if you put to much influence on either. There are some things that cannot be explained by science, accept it, don't call it god. There are somethings that cannot be explained by god, accept it, don't try to uber-rationalize it.

[phulshof]

You make it sound like science and Faith cannot coexist. I am a scientist, yet I am also a Christian. To me, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Yet what is science but the logical assumptions yet not proven wrong based on the knowledge that we have today? Faith on the other hand cannot be proven wrong; it can only be proven right, at which time it stops being Faith, and becomes fact in stead.

There was a time when faith was fact and ppl believed the sun revolved around the earth and earth was the center of the heavens.....that was proven wrong.

There was a time when faith was fact and ppl believed the world was flat because the bible makes no mention of it being round and actually supports the idea that it's flat...that was proven wrong

Actually, the sun evolving around the earth, earth being the center of the universe, and the world being flat were scientific theories that got proven wrong. I know of no religion that holds any opinion on these matters, though those scientific theories were indeed supported by the church of that time. The Bible for instance holds no theories on the shape of the world or the geographical location of the planets within the solar system. That some church leaders chose to support a scientific theory does not make it a part of Faith.

[phulshof]

The difference between science and faith is that science is false until proven correct whereas faith is True until proven wrong and even then you don't have to accept it.

Science is believed fact until it is proven wrong, though has to be supported by significant evidence before it is accepted as true in the first place. Many scientific theories however were considered fact until they were finally proven wrong (sometimes centuries later), so in that regard I do not fully agree with your assessment.

[XemnasXD]

And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree

The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth

Lets see what spherical object do you know that has not only an end but 4 corners.

Lets think on this cause its hard.....No the fact of the matter is that passages in the bible clearly make reference to a flat earth. Something that ancient priest were well aware of. The church didn't support the findings of science back then science worked for the church and if the church said something was true it became science

Galileo didn't spend the last years of his life under house arrested because his ideas disagreed with a science that the church supported. He spent the last years of life in misery and watched as his theory was outlawed because it directly disagreed with with scripture and the held faith of the church so much so they considered it blasphemy. If it were still up to them they'd have ppl still believing the sun revolved around the earth. In fact i think the catholic church officially recognized its mistake and issued a formal apology. I might be wrong on that i'll have to check some other time.

but yeah bible makes those theories, they're old as time of course ppl have always believed the earth was flat and everything revolved around us but believe me the bible has passages that support those beliefs and the church has killed more than one person defending them.


EDIT: I know several scientific theories that were proven wrong but when hey were first made all the evidence and technology pointed to them being right. So for all anybody at that time could've ever known they were right. As soon as evidence appeared to the contrary the Laws and theories were changed accordingly. Religion is stagnant in its faith. No matter what evidence appears to the contrary Religious people maintain the faith. Like i said Science is false until proven right, i never said it wasn't subject to change. Religion always considers itself the Truth until proven wrong and most of the time its not subject to change. There are still some religious people who believe the Earth is truly flat and that science is lying to us. You won't find any credible scientist who will agree. See the difference.

[RiceFarmer]

You guys believe in evolution, and evolution makes change for the better... Howcome for the time man has been on earth things have not changed for the better? .. right now I'm seeing wars, terrorism, famine, pestilence all that crap.. It kinda seems like the world is just getting worse. For those who believe in the after life (I do) you would know that the reason for an after life is to rid of all evil, this world is evil because Satan controls it.. and the world is getting worse and worse everyday, then BANG! .. Armageddon happens and for those who remained faithful to god are still alive in a good world!..

Sound like BS to you? well it could be...
But I prefer keeping faithful to this, rather than believing that first of all.. a so called "Big Bang" randomly happened.. and with this bang there was created a universe, with seperate galaxies with only 1 known to carry life. The Milky-Way, Holder to a number of planets including Earth, the only known inhabited planet in the whole entire universe! and this planet was the perfect distance from the sun to provide enough heat and enough light, an atmospheric system which contains oxygen in which we need to live and water which we need to drink, which then provides us with soils that allow us to grow food like fruits and vegetables, these foods also keep other species of life alive too, like birds and fish.. anyway you get the picture.
But you guys still believe that a "Big Bang" which happened out of absolutly .. nothing!

In our human body, we have a brain.. this is a very powerful organ,
but as humans we only use a very small portion of that brain, better yet we were able to create cities, vehicles, and many amazing things in this world. God is a spirit.. not a human.. You may compare god to the Big bang, by stating that both were just created out of nothing. God was not created out of nothing.. he wasn't created.. he has been here forever.. enternity.. and that is too hard for our small portion of brain that we use to understand.. but it isn't hard for god to understand at all, and by knowing that I feel it's a much plausible explanation to the beginning of life rather then a bang..

[phulshof]

And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree

The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth

Lets see what spherical object do you know that has not only an end but 4 corners.

First of all, I would not put too much Faith into a single translation. Daniel 4:11 for instance is sometimes translated into end of all the Earth, but also as end of all the land.

Also, both quotations come from visions/dreams the authors had. It would seem logical that such visions/dreams would match the image people had of the world at that time. Quoting a single passage from the Bible should always be met with scrunity; just look at some of the quotations Hitler used to find Christian support for his extermination of the Jews or some Christians use with regards to their hatred of homosexuality.

[phulshof]

You guys believe in evolution, and evolution makes change for the better.

If you are not familiar with the full theory of evolution (in stead of this simplification you state here), then please do not assume that you can draw conclusions about its correctness. IMHO there is no reason why evolution cannot co-exist with an Earth created by God, unless you wish to interpret the Bible literally at every part.

Sound like BS to you? well it could be...

The concept of infinity, both in time and space, is hard to comprehend for the human brain anyway. I cannot comprehend the infinite size of the universe, nor the infinite timespan this universe has existed (with or without a Big Bang, and what was before that). Similarly, I cannot comprehend the infinite existence of God, nor the infinity of His knowledge and power. Faith in God is not based on probability, and both Faith and Science have limits as to what the human brain can comprehend (at this point in time).

[redneck]

Even Einstein believed in God. "There must be someone or something behind all this matter".

Imo God has given the people 2 chances in this world. The first 1 to Adam and Eve in the Garden. Adam and eve at the fruit and God lost his trust in them. He tried giving them a second chance. The second one when he put his son amongst the humans. He was eventually crucified and I guess he moved on to make new life on some other planet.

But thats just my interpretation....I may be crazy but you can believe in whatever you want and thats the cool thing right?

[YangKang]

Our brain has a limit as example think first who GOD the alghmithy is - you cant but try thinking even further who could have created someone like God and we are talking about god not about bush, ryoko or anyone. God who made the universum the earth and everything, God who made every little cell in our body working you cant imagne. My father told me a "little story" when I was young :p He said you know how much the chance is that a whirlwind comes over a scrap place and it sets the whole broken things together to a working plane ? Scientest people did do the math over that I just forgot the numbers.. Now how much is the chance that there was a BANG and simply everything appeard the universum, earth, sun everything.. let alone the human body which of 1 cell has a lower chance appearing out of nowhere than a plane. Thaats my opinion ^_^

[phulshof]

Now how much is the chance that there was a BANG and simply everything appeard the universum, earth, sun everything.. let alone the human body which of 1 cell has a lower chance appearing out of nowhere than a plane. Thaats my opinion ^_^

I'm sorry, but your logic is flawed. Chances that I'm here writing this post are infinitely small as well (considering all my ancestors had to be born, stay alive to produce the right offspring, etc.), yet here I am. You cannot look at past occurrences, and say it could not have happened because the chances are infinitely small. You can only make such assumptions about the likelyhood of it happening again.

[Morgoth]

And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree

The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth

wow, if you're basing your argument solely on those 2 passages then you fail. first of all the Bible isn't meant for people to literally take everything in it as accurately true. its meant to take meaning out of it for how to live a better life (its like a book of morality)

four corners of the earth isn't necessarily referring to the whole planet earth, it could be referring to a territory(asia, middle east, etc) and its boundaries
the end of all the earth from Daniel 4:11 is simply an emphasize on the height of the tree and can't be interpreted for saying that the earth si flat

[Tasdik]

1.

but you think some spirit creating a a universe and life from nothingness is more plausible than an explosion of matter resulting in billions and billions of masses to be scattered in all directions and forming what we now have as the universe?

Yes...yes I do
2.

pure chance and good luck allowed us to be where we are right now and survive on earth

I disagree chance and luck had nothing to do with it
3.

earth is not unique, we are not special. Life exists elsewhere in this universe

No life as intelligent as we are or smarter has been found yet....intersting huh? considering "The universe contains an unfathomable number of planets and stars and "celestial beings" that form solar systems and galaxies"

[Stress]

Billions and billions of tons of matter that exploded into a universe coming from where? From what? If you can believe the matter simply was there, then I am entitled to believe in God, just as much as you are, believing matter was always there, or had just popped out of nothing.

[Stress]

Billions and billions of tons of matter that exploded into a universe coming from where? From what? If you can believe initial particles simply were there, then I am entitled to believe in God, just as much as you are, believing matter was always there, or had just popped out of nothing.

[Waisha]

Where'd God come from?

[Morgoth]

+1 Stress

Where'd God come from?

from nowhere, He has always been there

[Waisha]

+1 Stress

Where'd God come from?

from nowhere, He has always been there

Always, you say. How did it begin?

[Tasdik]

+1 Stress

Where'd God come from?

from nowhere, He has always been there

Always, you say. How did it begin?

No one knows only God and his son were at the beging

[Morgoth]

+1 Stress

Where'd God come from?

from nowhere, He has always been there

Always, you say. How did it begin?

Once again no one knows. This shows the complexity of God and how humans, as smart as they are, are not able to even begin to comprehend it.

[TOloseGT]

or, God doesn't exist

[Morgoth]

or, God doesn't exist

but he does

[Judge]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! <~ i would add some rational to this thread, but no; you can't rock with those who have faith. Its best to let them be until they are proven wrong, and even when that occurs they most likely won't accept the evidence. ~> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

@Xemnas, yes the pope did an apology <~ LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
@Everyone who relies on reason and Logic rather than Faith, give it up; they won't accept a thing we say, and they won't tackle our arguments head on. Their like politicians <~ LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Omgz i was laughing my ass off while reading this thread ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL!!!!

This thread is roflicious, keep it up people of faith; you're doing your god proud <~ LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

if i said anything you may find blasphemous please forgive me, and if you say I'm going to hell i will without hesitation rip apart every argument you bring up. Please continue the "argument" ,if you can even cal it that, I love what you guys have to say <~ LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!

~May The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit bless your eternal soul and prevent infinite damnation in the bowels of hell <~ lul
~Lets all chant some hail Marys and our fathers on Vent. I'm cereal!

[Morgoth]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! <~ i would add some rational to this thread, but no; you can't rock with those who have faith. Its best to let them be until they are proven wrong, and even when that occurs they most likely won't accept the evidence. ~> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

@Xemnas, yes the pope did an apology <~ LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
@Everyone who relies on reason and Logic rather than Faith, give it up; they won't accept a thing we say, and they won't tackle our arguments head on. Their like politicians <~ LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Omgz i was laughing my ass off while reading this thread ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL!!!!

This thread is roflicious, keep it up people of faith; you're doing your god proud <~ LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

if i said anything you may find blasphemous please forgive me, and if you say I'm going to hell i will without hesitation rip apart every argument you bring up. Please continue the "argument" ,if you can even cal it that, I love what you guys have to say <~ LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!

~May The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit bless your eternal soul and prevent infinite damnation in the bowels of hell <~ lul
~Lets all chant some hail Marys and our fathers on Vent. I'm cereal!

are you on drugs?

[AngelMare]

Faith was never wrong , when something goes wrong , its u rowne mistake .
god exists , but if he shows , everyone who dont believe will believe .. where is the test in life then ? in our koran - dont flame me cauze am muslim - alot things science just proved lately , was proved some in direct and others in indirect ways.. though its from thousands years ago , Religeons says Human must find out what he dont know .. but then , as people know more , they think there is no god .. just because they know alil bit in one branch of science ..

Judge .. u r an idiot .

[Nuklear]

Billions and billions of tons of matter that exploded into a universe coming from where? From what? If you can believe the matter simply was there, then I am entitled to believe in God, just as much as you are, believing matter was always there, or had just popped out of nothing.

You can believe, but that doesn't make it rational, or true. Like suggested above, it's irrational to think that matter can create itself and then implode, or w/e, but rational that there's a supernatural being that created all that wasn't created? I'm looking for consistency and proof. Religion, god, and fairies don't offer that.
*high-five to Judge*

Show me proof Angel, then I'll happily believe a fairytale.

[AngelMare]

proof from koran , np . but would u believe or say am a faker and liar?

[Nuklear]

You actually have proof that a supernatural being exists? Wow, this is somewhat exciting. So, what's your proof?

[Tasdik]

Judge .. u r an idiot .

+1...lol

[AngelMare]

Koran said thousands of years ago that seas dont mix up , with rivers or other sources , this was proven not so long ago to be true , by science , the koran which came down from heavens said it .
It was believed that babies come to the uterus in one time , one process .. koran said and proved everything from sperms to creation of baby and every single step , though there wasnt any microscopes or anything back at that time .

Tell me how if people and not god did this holy book , how did people know of that back then ? i think ur answer will be that am just a fuc*king liar making up stories .

[Judge]

1]Faith was never wrong , when something goes wrong , its u rowne mistake .2]god exists , but if he shows , everyone who dont believe will believe .. where is the test in life then ? 3]in our koran - dont flame me cauze am muslim - alot things science just proved lately , was proved some in direct and others in indirect ways.. though its from thousands years ago , 4]Religeons says Human must find out what he dont know .. but then , as people know more , they think there is no god .. just because they know alil bit in one branch of science ..

Judge .. u r an idiot .

I agree I'm an idiot because i would rather rely on logic to guide my life, than the stipulations of several "enlightened" men. Calling me an idiot isn't as asinine as telling me I'll burn in hell, but lets have some fun, shall we?

1]Faith was never wrong? surely you jest? Of course faith can't be wrong, faith can only be right because you have faith in it, correct? [rhetorical question, don't answer it] But right and wrong is only a perspective, i don't believe faith to be right; it is fallible therefore inaccuracies are warranted. I never said your god doesn't exist i simply stated i prefer not to believe in your god. Your god whether you see it or not is one of bigotry and hatred, those who disagree with your god and his followers are struck down for heresy and blasphemy. This in most cases apply only to the annuals of Christianity, and not Islam; despite the burgeoning history that says otherwise, Muslims are pacifist. I hold science in the highest regard, and religion holds little to no more power in today's world, so please keep your faith to yourself and don't call me an idiot for simply disagreeing with your beliefs. Would you prefer I agree with everything you and the other 'people of the book' type in order to maintain the peace? I know its my mistake when something goes wrong, i know this because i do not hold god, gods, or goddess' responsible for every occurrence in my life, I don't attribute a deformed child to god, i don not attribute good luck to god. What happens, happens, and I have only so much control. I am an animal, a beast, i have evolved to the point were i can come up with fanciful ideas such as god, which i remind you is an idea.

2]The test in life is survival, to survive is to live; this beast, this man, we are such an interesting creature we kill maim lie cheat and steal, then we attempt to justify all these actions. Such an interesting creature we are, in order to curb such behavior we created powerful images of ourselves and dubbed them deities.

If horses had gods, would they not be in the image of a horse?

Image in this case does not represent the physical body, but the mental body. Man has dubbed this the soul, and other men call it conscious. This conscious is what allows us, as stated in point 1, to create, imagine, a 'live', but don't mistake this conscious for anything "god-like" [lack of a better term: god like referring to something touched by the hypothetical "hand of god"] it is and always has been chemical reactions.

3]I own a Koran, a bible, and a Torah. I don't flame people on the basis of their beliefs, i don't flame people at all; i read, watch, and respond accordingly; if my responses come across as aggressive please forgive me. The reason Science has had so little time to explain what is 'mundane' is because the powers that be [secular powers] restrain [chain] them. Any ideas contrary to the beliefs of the times of these powers were and, to a certain extent, still are considered heresies.

4]Before religion was religion it was science, and science is fallible. Man has given to much power to religion, allowing it to spiral into this monstrous power it is today. There are several branches of science, as there are several schools of religion, do you hold these sciences to the act of evil? Or do you pick and choose? Do you obey every law in the Koran, or do you pick and choose? Would this not anger your god?

~ and none of you have answered Nuklear's question.
I'll be happily awaiting your responses.