Faith - False or?

[Belgarath]

My favorite is praising god only when good things happen. You never hear someone praising the fact they have cancer.

Cancer is our fault most of the time....very few time if ever is it God's

Then you go into, "Why would God let this happen?" Then the whole Adam + Eve and sins sequence. It's all just a pile. I do commend Christians on covering a lot of loopholes in their stories though.

Genetic defects our fault too Tasdik?

[Tasdik]

My favorite is praising god only when good things happen. You never hear someone praising the fact they have cancer.

Cancer is our fault most of the time....very few time if ever is it God's

Then you go into, "Why would God let this happen?" Then the whole Adam + Eve and sins sequence. It's all just a pile. I do commend Christians on covering a lot of loopholes in their stories though.

Genetic defects our fault too Tasdik?

God lets it happen because this isn't heaven....life isn't perfect + Satan likes things like that to happen doesn't he?

[Reise]

Well maybe the fact that we're mostly alone in the universe as far as we know is testament to the specific conditions required for intelligent life to form?

You would also have to ask yourself if you're willing to believe the entire universe is lifeless other than us. If we did happen on some other life form though, there would surely have to be mention of other life in some religion, because "god" supposedly created all life. But as far as I know, there isn't a religion that does.

IMO existence of other life on different planets would disprove all religion.

[HyorunmarouZ]

You know, it's funny how god made this things called humans, who are able to steal, kill, insult each other, and do everything is called "evil" and even when he knew they weren't perfect, he decided to give them free will!... That sounds more like we are the private circus of god and he made it just for entertainment.

P.S. I'm an Atheist.

[Nuklear]

So, in the absence of knowledge you fall back on something that's not based on knowledge?

Someone of faith please indulge me on your rationalization of this point.

[Tasdik]

You know, it's funny how god made this things called humans, who are able to steal, kill, insult each other, and do everything is called "evil" and even when he knew they weren't perfect, he decided to give them free will!... That sounds more like we are the private circus of god and he made it just for entertainment.

P.S. I'm an Atheist.

Have fun being a tree when you die = ]

[HyorunmarouZ]

You know, it's funny how god made this things called humans, who are able to steal, kill, insult each other, and do everything is called "evil" and even when he knew they weren't perfect, he decided to give them free will!... That sounds more like we are the private circus of god and he made it just for entertainment.

P.S. I'm an Atheist.

Have fun being a tree when you die = ]

I'll try

[Morgoth]

-how can it be possible for life to just appear out of an explosion? out of rocks, and gases?

-how do you explain the unique consciousness that humans posses which sets them appart from all other forms of life and which has allowed it to be the dominant species on this planet?

coincidence? i think not

[Tasdik]

-how can it be possible for life to just appear out of an explosion? out of rocks, and gases?

-how do you explain the unique consciousness that humans posses which sets them appart from all other forms of life and which has allowed it to be the dominant species on this planet?

coincidence? i think not

+1 thank you = ]

[Nuklear]

So, in the absence of knowledge you fall back on something that's not based on knowledge?

Someone of faith please indulge me on your rationalization of this point.

[Morgoth]

that's what we have been doing
however if you yourself are not willing to accept it, then there is no way you will be convinced

[Reise]

-how can it be possible for life to just appear out of an explosion? out of rocks, and gases?

-how do you explain the unique consciousness that humans posses which sets them appart from all other forms of life and which has allowed it to be the dominant species on this planet?

coincidence? i think not

Life didn't come from the explosion, the materials that eventually produced it did. It's not like the theory suggests "poof here's all the planets, stars and systems all developed and active from absolutely nothing". The process probably took an unfathomable amount of time, eventually leading to what we have now. Things evolve.

Of course believing things just became instantly what they are isn't far off the week it took God to create existence from nothing.

[Nuklear]

that's what we have been doing

No, it's not. You've just been guessing how the world came to be, not answering my question.

[Tasdik]

-how can it be possible for life to just appear out of an explosion? out of rocks, and gases?

-how do you explain the unique consciousness that humans posses which sets them appart from all other forms of life and which has allowed it to be the dominant species on this planet?

coincidence? i think not

Life didn't come from the explosion, the materials that eventually produced it did. It's not like the theory suggests "poof here's all the planets, stars and systems all developed and active from absolutely nothing". The process probably took an unfathomable amount of time, eventually leading to what we have now. Things evolve.

Of course believing things just became instantly what they are isn't far off the week it took God to create existence from nothing.

Alright, what were Humans doing for the "unfathomable amount of time" the earth has been around?

[Reise]

-how can it be possible for life to just appear out of an explosion? out of rocks, and gases?

-how do you explain the unique consciousness that humans posses which sets them appart from all other forms of life and which has allowed it to be the dominant species on this planet?

coincidence? i think not

Life didn't come from the explosion, the materials that eventually produced it did. It's not like the theory suggests "poof here's all the planets, stars and systems all developed and active from absolutely nothing". The process probably took an unfathomable amount of time, eventually leading to what we have now. Things evolve.

Of course believing things just became instantly what they are isn't far off the week it took God to create existence from nothing.

Alright, what were Humans doing for the "unfathomable amount of time" the earth has been around?

We simply didn't exist. Not quite as humans at least.

And no, the first thing that appeared in that "primordial sludge" wasn't a human body, it was probably some extremely simple one-celled organism. Eventually the organisms evolved and developed over tons and tons of time, and we have the life you see today.

The "uniqueness" of our consciousness is just because of our intelligence. We're smart enough to think and perceive things, and invent things like religion...

[Tasdik]

How was life created?

Most likely evolution.
So, in the absence of knowledge you fall back on something that's not based on knowledge? Ya, that makes sense.

Give me some proof of evolution....like a picture about 1 gazillion years old of humans as fish.

[Reise]

How was life created?

Most likely evolution.
So, in the absence of knowledge you fall back on something that's not based on knowledge? Ya, that makes sense.

Give me some proof of evolution....like a picture about 1 gazillion years old of humans as fish.

I think DNA has proved evolution in other animals, like dinosaurs for instance.

You know, those animals Noah forgot to pack onto the Ark.

[HyorunmarouZ]

Give me some proof of evolution....like a picture about 1 gazillion years old of humans as fish.

Give me some proof of god....like a picture about 1 gazillion years old of god creating earth.



Hate to argue about this matters, it's just the same old thing over and over. Whatever floats your boat...

[Tasdik]

We simply didn't exist. Not quite as humans at least.

And no, the first thing that appeared in that "primordial sludge" wasn't a human body, it was probably some extremely simple one-celled organism. Eventually the organisms evolved and developed over tons and tons of time, and we have the life you see today.

The "uniqueness" of our consciousness is just because of our intelligence. We're smart enough to think and perceive things, and invent things like religion...

Someone know the odds of us becoming the dominate spieces on earth since we were one of billions "extremely simple one-celled organism"?

[Morgoth]

The "uniqueness" of our consciousness is just because of our intelligence. We're smart enough to think and perceive things, and invent things like religion...

do other animals not have intelligence? how come they didn't develop a consciousness while humans did?

[Tasdik]

Give me some proof of evolution....like a picture about 1 gazillion years old of humans as fish.

Give me some proof of god....like a picture about 1 gazillion years old of god creating earth.

"No man has seen God"

[phulshof]

The whole reason why something is called Faith is because it cannot be proven right nor wrong. It is usually science that has a certain theory before it is proven wrong or incomplete. If I could prove God exists or didn't exist, it wouldn't be Faith anymore.

[Tasdik]

If I could prove God exists or didn't exist, it wouldn't be Faith anymore.

+1 true

[Morgoth]

one reason why God doesn't show himself is because the people who right now believe in Him do so because they have faith. if God were suddenly to appear, people would believe in him, praise him, etc not because of "faith" but because of the fact that he's is right there, in your face, because of the intimidation people would have to defy Him and God doesn't want that

[Reise]

The "uniqueness" of our consciousness is just because of our intelligence. We're smart enough to think and perceive things, and invent things like religion...

do other animals not have intelligence? how come they didn't develop a consciousness while humans did?

They do have consciousness, but I don't think anyone knows just what it's like to have the brain of an animal. But since we're the ones who have advanced like this and not other animals, it probably isn't very exciting lol. I'd assume it's more instinct than intelligence.

[HyorunmarouZ]

Give me some proof of evolution....like a picture about 1 gazillion years old of humans as fish.

Give me some proof of god....like a picture about 1 gazillion years old of god creating earth.

"No man has seen God"

The strongest argument of believers indeed. No way to refute it.


I won't say god doesn't exist, i say he does, he's an idea (in my opinion). God is something humans made to explain what they didn't understand.
It seems that people in the past prayed to god (or gods) to have rain, now we know rain doesn't depend on such things (it's just an example).

I'm just trying to say that science has found ways to explain, bit by bit, the mysteries of life. I'd like to believe that someday this whole matter will be resolved one way or another, either science finds a way to prove there's no god, or god shows itself to humans, or believers kill atheists and they find another interesting subject to argue about.

I'm not saying that science is an absolute truth either. It's a reasonable and realistic way to see the world, after all, god is almost the same as "magic" and who believes in magic nowadays?
I wonder why people who have faith shun other people who say they have seen extraordinary things happen (i'm not saying all of them do, but a great number of them does), and call them insane. After all, god is as supernatural as any kind of ghost, goblin, unicorn, etc.

Just some thoughts, maybe i'm right, maybe i'm wrong, but i'm happy with the way i live, cheers

[Vindicator]

Alright tasdik, you seem to like this whole "chance" bs

Faith>Science....the whole big bang theory is bull crap

The big bang is just a theory, of many. Of course it isnt totally right... but you think some spirit creating a a universe and life from nothingness is more plausible than an explosion of matter resulting in billions and billions of masses to be scattered in all directions and forming what we now have as the universe?

Faith>Science....the whole big bang theory is bull crap

Then disprove it.

Alright for one....the earth is spinning on an axis of 23 1/2 degrees *I think* if it were any closer/farther to the sun it couldn't support life...now how is that just a random coincidence?

It is a totally random coincidence. Earth is not the only solar system, it is not the only portion of this universe, and it is not the only galaxy. The universe contains an unfathomable number of planets and stars and "celestial beings" that form solar systems and galaxies. Think of the highest number you can and then keep going higher until your mind cannot comprehend something so massively large. That is our universe. Tons of solar systems exists. Tons of them are lifeless wastelands because their planets could not support any forms of life, or no forms of life have yet reached it. Tons more actually HAVE life in them. Our solar system is nothing unique. pure chance and good luck allowed us to be where we are right now and survive on earth. Nothing more, nothing less.

For a believer, it couldnt be coincidence. Hence it has meaning, and you can draw faith from it. From a scientific point of view, the fact that it exists in that loca, is a condition met to sustain primordial soup theory. Two sides of the same coin.

I disagree... It is not logical that the earth happened to appear exactly at the right spot in thee entire universe to support life.....someone knew where it had to be ...God knew where it had to be

once again, earth is not unique, we are not special. Life exists elsewhere in this universe.

[Fuhito]

I don't see how anyone confused a story that spends most of its time teaching that one of the first things humans will experience is the temptation to sin with the beginning of mankind. If you read all that and the only thing you thought of afterwards was that this disproves evolution maybe you should reread it and skip the first page.

The bible teaches many lessons, but a book that enforces these lessons with stories should not be confused with a history book.

If you believe God created Earth and humans, that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that belief. But, do not mistake stories that establish the sabbath and teach the ills of temptation with the actual creation of Earth and mankind.

My opinion anyway~

[Nitro]

If I could prove God exists or didn't exist, it wouldn't be Faith anymore.

+1 true

Thats why Science > Faith ... you see ... we think that there is something , until someone proves its wrong , false. that is the moment when Science conquers Faith ... We will ALL find out everything about God , about everything... then will Science conquer faith again ...it only needs time ... but it will happen for sure ...

Well maybe the fact that we're mostly alone in the universe as far as we know is testament to the specific conditions required for intelligent life to form?

You would also have to ask yourself if you're willing to believe the entire universe is lifeless other than us. If we did happen on some other life form though, there would surely have to be mention of other life in some religion, because "god" supposedly created all life. But as far as I know, there isn't a religion that does.

IMO existence of other life on different planets would disprove all religion.

I so agree with you ...

[phulshof]

Thats why Science > Faith ... you see ... we think that there is something , until someone proves its wrong , false. that is the moment when Science conquers Faith ... We will ALL find out everything about God , about everything... then will Science conquer faith again ...it only needs time ... but it will happen for sure ...

You make it sound like science and Faith cannot coexist. I am a scientist, yet I am also a Christian. To me, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Yet what is science but the logical assumptions yet not proven wrong based on the knowledge that we have today? Faith on the other hand cannot be proven wrong; it can only be proven right, at which time it stops being Faith, and becomes fact in stead.