What does a rogue do in a party?

[ShiningBow]

Well in a exp auto share party what does a dagger rogue do? I know crossbow rogues can bring monsters to the partys but what are dagger rogues useful for in a party?

[the_wicked]

....not much.

[ShiningBow]

lol so it just stands there and atks what the warrior is attacking? damn thats boring lol

[Axeoo7]

They can lure? and I really hate rogue knock back

[-.-]

daggers cant do much except crowd control on the normal mobs
no aoe attacks so they cant really jump in with warriors

[PB_and_J]

Help fight party giants...

[Goobronicus]

If you want to know how to play a dagger rogue, pm donkyle in game. He's the best dagger rogue by far.

As far as xbow, they're usually not wanted in party. They can lure great, however they have no buffs to give to the party (think warrior buffs). Warriors can lure just as well, or better, but can also give the ints fences and pain quota.

[Shortcut]

Add crossbow. Daggers are for pvp.

[doomas]

God, how I hate them... All they do is KB KB KB KB KB. And when they lure I have to catch like 10+ mobs or the pt dies
xbow and 2h are worthless (IMO), I never join them

[Summanus]

Add crossbow. Daggers are for pvp.

er Farking with me ?

daggers are for pvp? I prefer a dagger rogue in a party.. and so does most ppl.

[Guardia]

Nope, we dont need dagger rogues in the pt.

To all rogues out there, take bard as a sub. And atleast u can bard OR be the second bard for the dance. U'll get more pt that way.

[Feataler]

Keeps the wizards safe in case a mob spawns next to them, uses KB to save people when they need... Just try to help the party, not deal damage.

[Shortcut]

Add crossbow. Daggers are for pvp.

er Farking with me ?

daggers are for pvp? I prefer a dagger rogue in a party.. and so does most ppl.

IMO daggers rogues are the least usful in a party, they cant tank/lure/agro like a warrior. Now jobbing/pvp daggers win out, stealth/pric rule.

XBow rouges rock in a party, they can just shoot, turn, shoot, turn, shoot turn and you have all the mobs you need, no need for the tankers to run around luring mobs.

I guess if you set on being a dagger rogue, then stick close to the ints. If you attack with the tanker dont spam your keys so you are always free to break away and scut over to save the wizz's.

I played a Rogue on Pacific up to lvl 53 and was always asked to use xbow, never had one request to switch to daggers.

[WitchHazel]

I find Rogues to very extremely effective in euro party play. As a luring support character. Using fast shot to lure mobs from afar and drawing them to a primary tank at the party spot so the tank can taunt them, and the dmg dealers can nuke them. I have found this to be a very effective form of party since the penons. Some euro players frown upon rogues. The only thing I hate about a rogue is fighting them in pvp. You annoying shits. lol. Otherwise, I welcome all rogues into Odyssey.

~WitchHazel

[Summanus]

Lol, I'm playing a Rogue/Warlock right now and if I turn DD on I can do almost as much dmg as a wiz and still curse(well before turning DD on) AND take more spanking than a wiz.. and whenever I get too much mob aggro, I just switch to my warlock rod and shield and DD is turned off and I have "decent"(compared to all classes except warriors) tanking ability. Plus you don't really need a x-bow to lure half decent, I can just throw a curse from some distance away.

So I'm pretty much switching my role in the party after need, either cursing, dmg dealing or luring. And maybe lift slight aggro.. just slight tho.. rogues are sucky tankers and shield doesn't really help all that much.

Now playing like this takes a hell lot of timing, button pressing, switching between quickbars and some thought, but none the less, so far the peps I've been partying with have been befriending me and wanting to party more, so at least I do something right.

And even tho I know I'm not the ultimate party class I'm still pulling my share.. but most of all I'm just really godlike at PvP xD

[PhizzDaShizz]

Personaly i think rogues are chinese with a longer pot delay, the only thing they are usful for in party getting mobs and even then i see warriors do that better. dagger rogues are completely useless in paties. No offense to the people who play rogues there a very good build just not for partying. getting a bard sub would be very useful for getting parties. Also rogues do decent damamge but they dont do anywhere as much as a wiz and wizards have splash damage. (sorry if my grammars bad i didnt get much sleep)

[hitokiri]

their effectiveness heavily relies on the player, maybe more so then other builds. Summanus sounds like he has a really interesting build and knows how to play it, and sounds like its effective in parties. I've played with Rogues who lured with xbow, switch to Dagger when they need to help out and as long as they lure properly, good flow not too much to overwhelm the party kinda thing, warn the pt b4 a party giant is pulled etc. Played with rogues who like KBing giants across the map or refuse to take off DD/CE. Just like any build, it depends on the players on effectiveness.

[WrathShielder]

Yeah we have had Inimicus in a bunch of parties and he can keep a pretty good flow of mobs coming to the kill zone and knows when to ask or anticipate when we have enough. Warriors don't have to do a lot of running out pulling mobs (sometimes coming back with only 4 regs that are efficiently nuked in 5 seconds). When there are many party regs spawning within the kill zone, it is nice to have the tanks staying put to keep them occupied and away from the INTs. I have had a "few" instances where a tank has been off pulling a string of mobs and a couple of party regs or champs spawn on top of the INTs and we are pushing them off to stay alive long enough for the tank to return. Xbow rogues can be very useful in parties and I won't shun them as long as they know how to play their build correctly.

[-.-]

rogues are good at kbing pt giants into trees so they dont move...
warriors can do that too but they are too busy tanking

[ShiningBow]

So Dagger rogue doesnt do much lol.... good thing i got cleric sub hehe

[the_wicked]

God, how I hate them... All they do is KB KB KB KB KB. And when they lure I have to catch like 10+ mobs or the pt dies
xbow and 2h are worthless (IMO), I never join them

Actually 2H are decent if they don't KD or use KD moves too much. When you get 70 skills using bash to hit 3 mobs and spamming triple swing and charge swing makes them good tanks. Also, PM SuicideGirl, he's a good 2H tank.

[ArchYourFace]

God, how I hate them... All they do is KB KB KB KB KB. And when they lure I have to catch like 10+ mobs or the pt dies
xbow and 2h are worthless (IMO), I never join them

Actually 2H are decent if they don't KD or use KD moves too much. When you get 70 skills using bash to hit 3 mobs and spamming triple swing and charge swing makes them good tanks. Also, PM SuicideGirl, he's a good 2H tank.

KB is fine, compared to KD. I was in a party with two 2h warriors, and all they did was kd, one right after the other. i could barely breathe a curse , let alone nuke or vamp touch. I like dagger rogues as long as they know they cant tank, and they don’t go DD or XX with the thought that they can. Daggers should IMO attack non party mobs, and help protect the ints.

[hitokiri]

KB is better then knockdown, however an important element of a good party is area control. and when a monster, lets say a party giant that is going to take more then a few seconds, is getting knocked into a foreign area, for example a penon being pushed into planars, it changes a lot about the situation. However, when we would party at ongs, or even some places in penon there are walls or cliffs. I would position myself along with another tank possibly, and shieldbash/sprint the monster to push them into this place so they cant move. You dont have to worry as much about it moving to another target, You dont have to worry about mobs behind the giant being lured by your hits, and its much easier to keep it in place and controlled. So it depends how you use it, I remember SG i think it was mentioning if two 2handed warriors kb into each other, it still contains the monsters and it allows them to use their moves and not worry about the mobs being pushed too much. Again, it comes down to how you play it. I personally prefer using my 1h skills to keep a mob and contain them around me rather then having to continually position myself to push them correctly.

An xbow player is pretty limited to what they can use however if you eliminated KB moves as well as KD moves. So they can simply pull to the party, they can use KB to push mobs off INTs just enough to give tanks a chance to move to it, they can move themselves to keep a monster pinned to the wall, can stand across from a 2handed and push monsters back into the party as the 2h pushes out, etc. There are lots of ways to play the build in my opinion.

As Arch said, a dagger rogue is useful when they realize while their skills are found next to the warrior skills in the skill menu, it doesnt mean they're a tank. They hit very high and are great for adding damage to a party monster, as well as simply playing INT guard and watching over a few who maybe dont have warrior buffs, or have Recovery Division and lure a lot.

[Astra]

In a last scenario, I would pick 2hander than a rogue dagger. Why?

2hander can also use:
His skills have big aggro
Vital Increase (300% aggro)
Taunt (more aggro)
2x Protect (less aggro on the ints)

Extra survivability for the party:
2x Fence
2x Quota
Screen also

So lets summarize.

This way the party will survive more than having a rogue dagger to babysit INTs butts. The cleric will have a constant screen (120sec cooldown; lasts 60sec), because when 1st screen ends, the 2hander casts his screen, so the cleric is secured 24/7. (in theory)
With the 2hander you gonna have 4 INTs fully covered with protection (Protect, Fence) and extra protection with 4 Pain Quotas.

[GodsAngel]

a rogue luring with protect luring, makes a tanks job much easier and gives us more time to think so we don't forget your quota so often, there are ups and downs to having a rogue in a party.

Everyone says they're useless, that's not true, the players playing those rogues made the build to do damage so they join a party thinking they'll do damage, these type of players are useless in 99/100 parties.

The player who believes rogues can be useful can do what witch said earlier, however no one gives them a chance.
be open-minded, not everyone's that noob rogue who KBs and KBs and then KDs and says oops, just like not everyone's that awesome tank who buffs and lures and tanks and saves lives and screens and doesn't die and... sometimes it's good to give the main tank a break and hand him a good rogue he can cast protect on

as for you sir Shiningbow, trying to prove your rogue worth in a party is the way to go if you have rogue pride. Think about your build, think about what a party is, keep brainstorming different ways to be helpful in a party, i wish you luck.

as for Guardia's advice, this is common on Venus, many many rogues take bard sub. another option would be to take warrior sub, which some indeed take. These are possible choices, if you can think of others we'd love to hear them.

[foudre]

What do we do? we aoe posion, while we shred away a creature, and quickly move to another one, poison trap where the tanks are tanking and the mobs stay up there with you and the tanks, remember a trick i found is if you use the posion imbue it works on poison trap. If one gets by the tanks and poison some how, you get in there and throw everything you got on it. Cross bow is good for luring if the party is set up for it, usually its not, but when you get it going its way faster then a tank luring. But cross really shoudln't be used except in certain party situations, its bad dmg compared to your daggers, but the knock back can be a life saver for the ints, (crossbow is better in a party before lvl 40 though, once you get your 40 dagger skills thats your new better mode to go with for a party). If things go bad, you can use cross bows to knock back, and buy time.

[PileOfMush]

Thanks Zee and Donut for some positive input. I wanted to add that unlike my 1h in 400 pounds of Heavy Armor, Rogues use Light Armor and can often be good at pulling because they can move faster... after they pull they can stick around to help deal some real damage to the mobs that are being tanked before they pull another batch.

Every euro class has major strenghts and major weaknesses. I think Rogues are good because they're not as fragile as wizards and they can still dish it out.

And as always, I'd rather be in a party with a smart player of any build than a noob button masher. The point is, SB... learn your skills and learn how you can add to the overall usefulness of any party. Sometimes you'll get in a tank heavy party and you will be more useful as a damage dealer... other times you'll be in a wiz heavy party and you'll do more good pulling or protecting the ints from all the mobs that aggro to them until a tank can aggro them.

[foudre]

Thanks Zee and Donut for some positive input. I wanted to add that unlike my 1h in 400 pounds of Heavy Armor, Rogues use Light Armor and can often be good at pulling because they can move faster... after they pull they can stick around to help deal some real damage to the mobs that are being tanked before they pull another batch.

Every euro class has major strenghts and major weaknesses. I think Rogues are good because they're not as fragile as wizards and they can still dish it out.

And as always, I'd rather be in a party with a smart player of any build than a noob button masher. The point is, SB... learn your skills and learn how you can add to the overall usefulness of any party. Sometimes you'll get in a tank heavy party and you will be more useful as a damage dealer... other times you'll be in a wiz heavy party and you'll do more good pulling or protecting the ints from all the mobs that aggro to them until a tank can aggro them.

Not every party is the same, you must learn to try to make it work, the more things you can make work the less time you spend waiting around for a picturesque party. Though we all know whats its like to be in a noob party where the warriors think they are dmg dealers and the wizzards think they are tanks, and every one runs around like a bunch of chickens, Those kinda parties you can basicly give up on. But if you have competent people in your party most combinations can be made to work to a at least better then solo rate of grinding. The power of the rogue comes from its versatility and ability to change what role he is playing in the party, although no substitute for a warrior a rogue can still keep the agro with lots poison out, at least enough for the ints to kill before they get hit, a rogue can do ranged knock back and kd which can become a life saver, rogues can turn into some killer mean dmg dealers and have bleed plus poison making them amazing on a ptg, the poison aoe helps focus the agro away from the ints (trust me i've been the cleric behind this, and that poison helped protect me from less then amazing warriors). And if a warrior is nice enough to lend you a fence or qouta either is enough, you can semi tank, enough to save ints while still dishing out major dmg.
The major argument is that people would rather have more wizzard or another tank, but don't let that get you down, if you wanna be a rogue be a rogue, you'll still find parties and get to keep going back to some if you can prove you are competent enough. Though more then one rogue per party is not really a good idea, a rogue still works best mildly detached from the group, how ever its that freedom that makes them a great asset

[PileOfMush]

BTW, Donut... ShiningBow is on Venus with his Rogue, he just hasn't changed his sig to reflect that.

[foudre]

I was just saying more about a rogue that came to mind, with out showing though i'm not sure i can teach any more, i'm more of a hands on person