Do you think they should AUTO KICK for being AFK????????

[JaJa]

Ah, sorry about the misunderstanding.

No-Stall Zone around NPCs

and a combo of non-taxed Stalls and taxed Auction Houses FTW

np. I think the system is great, but it has flaws that can be fixed. I'm a programmer and sys admin by trade and I know just completely tossing something out to put something else in is 80% of the time the WRONG solution. You just end up with a new solution with it's own set of problems. Honestly I see the flaws with the current system and can see easy solutions to them.

[JaJa]

Have people be able to stall, set their own price where people can't compare it to similar items without leaving the stall

Thats not what consumers want. If they had both systems, most would go to the AH for buying.

How bout the people looking for a female protector glove with blues, level xx ?

Select the fields on the left, set a level range or degree, and find every one for sale.

------------------------------------------------
I don't know why anyone would oppose to something so easy, that cleans up the server too.

In ours, it compares the item you hover over with the one your wearing. You can search with keywords, give it level ranges, rarity and catagory. And you can preview it on your character. You can also shift-click it to send a 'link' of it to a friend/guildmate. They can click the link and view the item stats too. Profits are mailed directly to you; check your mailbox in any town you like. Returned items too.

Its a lot of fun.

Im so glad I never have to leave a comp running overnight with my char in a stall, waking up and finding I was disconnected anyway.

That is what everyone wants? Are you SURE about that? Because I don't want that, and I'm sure others feel the same. If you are after a specific item, yeah an auction house is nice, and that sort of happens now with the callouts for WTS and WTB. I've even had two players bid-war over a +4 glave before. Standardizing it would be fine, but many times I also enjoy just roaming the stalls checking out whatever deals there are to be had, finding items that I could flip for more money, or whatever. I don't see what the problem is with a compromise solution.

[Ryoko]

Methinks your argument is based on, buying something at a cheap price, and re-selling it for more; or; being able to sell an item for an expensive price, and still having someone buy it.

Its the same thing with the AH. Just works a little differently.

Swindlers and resellers still make money.

Those who are good at it make serious money.
Those who are bad at it lose money.

Theres also a server-wide trade channel for your WTBs and WTSs

[JaJa]

My argument is based on I like the freedom to be able to set up a stall anywhere and sell anything I choose to. If I overprice it doesn't sell. I like being able to stumble on some lvl 16 spears or bows with a high crit selling for regular price, so I can sell them for the market worth because they are in demand. I like being able to, for a while, transport pots from some areas and sell them for a small profit in wilderness/camp areas where they are in demand. I personally like this game because it isn't just fight/grind/pvp, it has aspects that require a lot of thinking. Not just "oh I got lucky grinding and got a great drop to sell".

I don't overcharge, I charge what I can get for an item. I like being able to undercut other sellers by manually looking at what they sell them for, and putting in the effort that other people don't do to find these prices and under cut them. I understand if you dislike stalling because it isn't something you play the game for, and that is fine. That's why I said adding an auction house with a tax would be fine, if that is not something you care to do in this game. I just don't want the thing *I* have fun with in the game be removed because some people find it boring. The system can be fixed without removing options.

[Rien]

Call me crazy but how is spamming the globals and locals with WTS and WTB is better than going to one place to find everything.

I guess you can call this the "WalMart" syndrome. Sure, you COULD go and search 50 different stores for 50 different things, or you could just go to WalMart and get everything. Does that make sense? It sounded good in my head. Personally I think an AH would put stallers out of business with or without taxes, but the ease of use and the convienience to the buyers is what draws me to it.

[Ryoko]

Still, a lot of points about being able to price what you want, or resell, or make profit.

Im telling you, its the same - only a different approach.

Strength stone 3.0m
Strength stone 2.7m
Strength stone 2.6m
Strength stone 2.5m
Strength stone 2.4m
Strength stone 2.3m
Strength stone 2.2m
Strength stone 2.1m
Strength stone 2.0m

The smart reseller is going to buy 2-3 stones to sell later.
The average player will buy 1-2 of those to use on their gear.
The rich player is going to buy the expensive ones because they care less about the cost

Some days later, the market is dry. No Strength stones for sale.

The smart reseller lists for 3-4m. Within the day they are bought by the rich or desperate players.

Profit is made reselling.

Sometimes, you start the chain of undercutting. Because you sold too high. Your bad.

Now, you also have tablets.

People without matts will buy stones instead.
People making profit will buy the tabs and matts when they are cheap, and sell stones
Some consumers will buy matts and tabs, try to save on cost

Now you can play the market on tabs, matts and stones. 3 ways to make money.

High days, low days and dry days.

You already have all this now. The difference is walking from stall to stall to get it done, or having stalls allover logged into the server.

This is the same way. Convenient for both buyers....and sellers.

[JaJa]

I'm telling you, removing stalls and just making one AH will bring it's own set of problems. Take for example the lvl 16 high crit bows. If everyone sells through this AH, then some seller comes up, sees RIGHT THERE with no effort that they are worth 25k+ instead of the expected 17k, and prices just like everyone else. There is no effort involved, selling becomes just a secondary activity with no effort required and only the grinders/bots will make all the money, because they are the ones with all of the drops. BORING.

What is the problem with putting in an auction house to cut down on the WTS/WTB callouts (which I actually like, btw. Makes the town market places feel alive) but allowing a newb like me to travel to Jangan, buy a full stock of pots and horses, and running back to the bridge or ferry and set up a stall selling for a small profit so players out there can restock on their trips? I made good money selling mundane goods at a low level doing that. Putting up a shop where goods are in demand is part of the beauty of this game.

[JaJa]

Call me crazy but how is spamming the globals and locals with WTS and WTB is better than going to one place to find everything.

I guess you can call this the "WalMart" syndrome. Sure, you COULD go and search 50 different stores for 50 different things, or you could just go to WalMart and get everything. Does that make sense? It sounded good in my head. Personally I think an AH would put stallers out of business with or without taxes, but the ease of use and the convienience to the buyers is what draws me to it.

Maybe I'm crazy but IRL I don't go to Walmart for anything but the most mundane goods. I LIKE hitting 50 stores to locate the deals, like local guitar shops that I can talk face to face and work out a deal on a used bit of gear. I very RARELY shop for things online, unless it is something specific. I'd rather go out and see things with my own eyes and try to talk down the salesman. I do the same thing in SRO.

[lexies2]

yes i believe a auctionhouse you would be VERY helpful to the lag i mean take it from another WoW player it can take lag down by alot.

[Ryoko]

I'm telling you, removing stalls and just making one AH will bring it's own set of problems. Take for example the lvl 16 high crit bows. If everyone sells through this AH, then some seller comes up, sees RIGHT THERE with no effort that they are worth 25k+ instead of the expected 17k, and prices just like everyone else. There is no effort involved, selling becomes just a secondary activity with no effort required and only the grinders/bots will make all the money, because they are the ones with all of the drops. BORING.

What if you waited until there was no 16 high crit bows listed? Then you could jack the price and make more.

Any level player who knows how to play, can spot a cheap deal on an SOS bow and jack the cost for resale. Some SP farmer will buy it

It does take reseller brains to work the AH and win

And the sad truth, bots DO make the money already. You can't prevent that.

but allowing a newb like me to travel to Jangan, buy a full stock of pots and horses, and running back to the bridge or ferry and set up a stall selling for a small profit so players out there can restock on their trips? I made good money selling mundane goods at a low level doing that. Putting up a shop where goods are in demand is part of the beauty of this game.

Don't hate me, but I killed those all the time with electric thief. Heh heh.

Hmm. We kind of do that but opposite. We go to some far out place no one goes, get special recipes or herbs or items only found in those parts of the world, then drag it back to the AH and mark it up. And they sell. Either way, its profit for hauling.

But yes, I know SRO doesnt have 'special items' in far out places.

[JaJa]

Fine. If you have your way then I'll end up quitting this game because the only unique thing about it will be ruined. I find no fun in just grinding all the time, I don't enjoy PvP, jobbing is a fun side deal to do, but the real fun I have is finding in-demand items and selling them in locations they are in demand in. Ok, that's fine with me, and I'm sure my wife will be happier if I quit.

Just don't complain when the influx of botters and scammers come because the only way to make real money anymore is to grind or scam. But I guess the game will be more fun for pwners. Yay for you. I think there's a way to compromise and have it be fun for both of us but if you don't see it that way then whatever. This game will become a bad WoW clone, and I don't play WoW because I have no interest in that.

[Ryoko]

Dont get fustrated. Just a discussion.

It won't change because SRO said they have no intention of doing it anyway.

Change is scary because we have to adapt and relearn. But its all economics.

Remember I was in SRO when there was only "30 people" as mamba described. It was beautifull.

Now its a mess. A shame. A laggy dump with a billion stalls on every square inch.

One of the reasons I've deemed SRO un-enjoyable. That and bots, cheaters, global chats, CCF.

If you don't like my thinking on that already, wait till you hear that I believe you should be 20 to teleport to Don, 40 to teleport to hotan... to get rid of all the level 1 stall chars and ppl who don't belong/train there.

[JaJa]

I'm not frustrated. Actually, I agree with all of those points. I'd like to see a thread with realistic improvement suggestions. Short list:

- Lvl 20 requirement to teleport to DW, 40 to teleport to Hotan. OR, require that the player has physically traveled to the city and "touched" the teleport.

- Require level 5 (or higher? Suggestions please) to open a stall

- Establish "No Stalling Zones" around problem areas like a circle around NPCs and a path to reach the NPC.

- Implement an Auction House system in addition to stalls.

- Allow players to open a stall, then disconnect and the stall will remain open WITH NO LAG BECAUSE IT IS NOT DEPENDANT ON THE PLAYER ANYMORE (capped because some people don't realize it is the player's connection that causes lag, not the server), with a max time of 8 hours.

- Prevent more than two accounts from a single IP from logging into given server at any one time to cut down on mass-stallers/botters creating dummy accounts

- Make elixers have a degree system like alchemy stones. Right now it is a waste of money to try to plus your lower level items because the high level rich players have jacked up the price on elixers. Getting 3rd degree elixers from bandits would be awesome.

- Implement an in-game botter flag system that allows players to flag botters and have a GM be able to see these right away to investigate.

- Prevent spawned NPC thieves from attacking other target other than the one that spawned them, UNLESS they are hit-aggro'd by another player.

- Make a level system where player hunters/thieves cannot attack another jobber that is 10 levels away from them.

- Remove 1* trade protection. I am a trader and I would accept having to deal with player thieves with no problems as long as the above rule was put into place.

- Hunters when killing a thief should get a unique drop like the Curst Hearts that they can turn in at the Hunters Guild for 1k gold each. It would increase the incentive for hunters to actually hunt, like bounty hunters.

Some of these certainly would make things more difficult for me in the game but in interest of fairness to other players I could live with the consequences. It would be sort of fun really. I'd love to be able to run bigger trades and deal with player thieves IF I didn't have to worry about stupidly high level thieves one-shot killing me. I'd enjoy fighting off player thieves my own level. The best part from a programmers perspective is that most of these items would be SO SIMPLE to implement.

And sorry if this derails this thread.

[Ryoko]

- Make elixers have a degree system like alchemy stones. Right now it is a waste of money to try to plus your lower level items because the high level rich players have jacked up the price on elixers. Getting 3rd degree elixers from bandits would be awesome.

Carefull.

This does make it hard to +++ weapons at low level.

But this is a huge money opportunity for a lower level. Because high levels buy them for that price.

Same as elements.

[JaJa]

- Make elixers have a degree system like alchemy stones. Right now it is a waste of money to try to plus your lower level items because the high level rich players have jacked up the price on elixers. Getting 3rd degree elixers from bandits would be awesome.

Carefull.

This does make it hard to +++ weapons at low level.

But this is a huge money opportunity for a lower level. Because high levels buy them for that price.

Same as elements.

Well ideally this would also help cool down the market so lower levels wouldn't NEED a ton of money to get good stuff. I posted one more in another thread, to help cool down the economy, is to make a hunger bar for players like wolves have to require players to buy and keep food with them to drain away some money. If everyone has less money, and high level rich players couldn't drive up the cost of low or common level items, we newbs and mid-levels could get by just fine with less money.

[mcclane1]

no
all that needs to be said
(It would be really hard for JOYMAX to make a AH with the blues and +'s)

[francomade]

Zomg if you lag,

EASY.

Resoultion to 800x600 and graphics set to low.

The end.

[purified]

I say yes because if they do AUTO KICK people from the game for being AFK for more then 5mins other player could get into the game more easyer and we will not have to much disconnections at the sign on screen and maybe it could help some of the lag in all the towns.

Thats a pretty lame idea. Then we wont be able to buy shit from stallers, and we would have to start exchanging from then on

[3t3rnal]

no, cuz now i also got a mule acct to sell stuff, ^^

[Breed]

Sounds.......Stupid

[takolin]

I want an AH.
I hate checking every singles stall in Donwhang.
It takes ages and I always enter the same stalls over and over again.

[streetrobban]

I think getting kicked within 5 minuts of idling is insane? How would you be able to stall then? Sometimes Im idle just talking to people in chat/guildchat/partychat or whatever.

[takolin]

When you're talking you're not really AFK, are you?

[Rien]

Maybe I'm crazy but IRL I don't go to Walmart for anything but the most mundane goods. I LIKE hitting 50 stores to locate the deals, like local guitar shops that I can talk face to face and work out a deal on a used bit of gear. I very RARELY shop for things online, unless it is something specific. I'd rather go out and see things with my own eyes and try to talk down the salesman. I do the same thing in SRO.

Yeah, but the problem with your "Face to Face" thinking is, most stallers are afk anyways. I guess were going to have to agree to disagree because like you said, not everyone likes the same things. You like going and searching stalls in an attempt to find a deal no one has seen yet, and I would rather "go to Walmart" for my one stop shopping.

This game will become a bad WoW clone

Because it shares 1 feature with WoW, an AH. A feature, I might add, that most other games have. AH's werent invented by WoW.

Prevent more than two accounts from a single IP from logging into given server at any one time to cut down on mass-stallers/botters creating dummy accounts

One issues with that is it would kill LAN Parties. A big draw of MMOs, at least for me, is being able to take my comp somewhere and play, live with other people. No one would be able to do this anymore is this was implemented.

Implement an in-game botter flag system that allows players to flag botters and have a GM be able to see these right away to investigate.

It's good thinking, but this would get abused in the first 5 minutes from someone angry at someone else who accidently KS them. Plus, I highly doubt anything in this game will be done "right away".

Prevent spawned NPC thieves from attacking other target other than the one that spawned them, UNLESS they are hit-aggro'd by another player.

I read where this is included in the next update. I dont have a link at the moment, but thank god they did this.

Hunters when killing a thief should get a unique drop like the Curst Hearts that they can turn in at the Hunters Guild for 1k gold each. It would increase the incentive for hunters to actually hunt, like bounty hunters.

Completely agree. Traders and thieves incentive are both money, but hunters have barely any reason to do anything. The payouts are totally dependent on the drops they get by killing monsters on the way, and IF the trader pays them for the protection. And with everyone doing 1* trades, the trader makes so little, the protection money doesnt even cover pots.

I also agree with the no stall zones and the 10 level gap for thieves and traders, but Im going a little crazy on the quotes.

It would be really hard for JOYMAX to make a AH with the blues and +'s

No, it actually wouldn't. Otherwise no one would have done it before.

[JaJa]

This game will become a bad WoW clone

Because it shares 1 feature with WoW, an AH. A feature, I might add, that most other games have. AH's werent invented by WoW.

Prevent more than two accounts from a single IP from logging into given server at any one time to cut down on mass-stallers/botters creating dummy accounts

Implement an in-game botter flag system that allows players to flag botters and have a GM be able to see these right away to investigate.

It's good thinking, but this would get abused in the first 5 minutes from someone angry at someone else who accidently KS them. Plus, I highly doubt anything in this game will be done "right away".

Sorry I should have clarified that comment a bit. What I mean is, the thing that makes this game to me is the "business simulation" aspect of it. It is a pure free market system. This is where I have my fun. Changing it to a AH system only would strip that away to being a stock market-style trading system. When I was in middle school my gifted classes had us do a project where we "played" the stock market. I have always found it completely boring. Thus, since WoW ALSO has this system, the major part of the game that makes SRO unlike WoW is gone, and you are left with Questing and grinding and that is about it. I might as well play WoW then because they have better quests.

I understand about the LAN party thing, but something has to be done. The treatment for cancer is pretty brutal but it is necessary.

Abusers of the bot-flag system, even if some player is flagged for inspection it still requires a human GM to verify. If a player abuses the system the GM could just simply revoke that user's report privs.

The second thing in this game I enjoy is jobbing, and that is broken too. As a 2x trader, I have two options. Run a 1* in a convoy, since the hunters can't deal with level 5x+ thieves so they insist on us running as 1*, or run as a 1* solo and also risk getting popped. I've run 4* a SMALL handful of times when the server was bare and it was great, but normally I can't. I'd like to be able to take the risk of a bigger trade but most of the time I can't. I'm too low level and can't fight off thieves that kill me in one hit. Now, I've even had FUN having a thief around my level attack my 4* convoy, but getting "pwned" just plain sucks. Last night I tried to run a 1*, which only nets you 50k at most for my level, and was popped right off the ferry by a level 6x thief. 1* trading really has very small payout and you have no "protection" really. Just plain sucks.

I can also see things from the perspective of other jobs too, and Hunters have little incentive. I pay my hunters 20% of my run, one time I paid 30% as a bonus because my hunter was attacked by a player thief while we were running and he had to fight them off himself. But it never made sense why they DON'T get paid for killing thieves, I thought "Hunter" was short for "Bounty Hunter".

And I can also see the argument made by thieves that too many traders run 1*. Hence, if thieves could only attack traders around their own level removing that protection wouldn't be that bad really. They could attack any trader that ran as long as the fight was fair (they could even party up on a solo trader for the edge).

And this post is almost entirely OT now. Many apologies.

[Rien]

Here's where the level gap restriction between hunter, traders and thieves comes into play.

Say you have 2 parties fighting:

Party One: a 5x hunter, and two 2x traders.
Party Two: Four 2x thieves.

Are the hunters going to be useless in this fight, or are we going to say once anyone attacks a trader, they are fair game for the hunters, no matter what level they are.

[JaJa]

Here's where the level gap restriction between hunter, traders and thieves comes into play.

Say you have 2 parties fighting:

Party One: a 5x hunter, and two 2x traders.
Party Two: Four 2x thieves.

Are the hunters going to be useless in this fight, or are we going to say once anyone attacks a trader, they are fair game for the hunters, no matter what level they are.

Would it be fair for the level 5x hunter to pwn these thieves? That hunter could wipe the floor with all 4 of them in about 10 seconds. Yes, the hunter would be useless in this situation. A level 5x hunter should be rolling with level 5x traders, not 2x. As a 2x I usually only party with traders and hunters level 2x. The only thing this hunter would be good for in this situation would be to ress/heal the traders who are fighting the thieves themselves. Which actually would be handy, now that I think about it.

[<EvilOne>]

Lol I accidently pressed Yes, but I say NO! How should I sell items than? Shout out load? lol

[Dempster]

Stalling would go down then. Lame.

[Rien]

Would it be fair for the level 5x hunter to pwn these thieves? That hunter could wipe the floor with all 4 of them in about 10 seconds. Yes, the hunter would be useless in this situation. A level 5x hunter should be rolling with level 5x traders, not 2x. As a 2x I usually only party with traders and hunters level 2x. The only thing this hunter would be good for in this situation would be to ress/heal the traders who are fighting the thieves themselves. Which actually would be handy, now that I think about it.

I'm just concerned about when a lower level player joins a guild/union full of higher levels and cant do any jobs with his guild and union mates because they are all too high to do anything with. Whats the point of guilds/unions if you can't do anything with them because of a level restriction. Now if there wasn't a level restriction for people in the same guild or union then I wouldnt mind it, but to say more or less, 2x's can only group with 2x's and 3x's can only group with 3x's completely takes away a lot from the game.

I started playing the same as most of my friends, and since I bought a game ticket and they didnt, and I'm level 34 and they are level 20-25. If there were a restriction in place, that would be punishing all of us by not allowing us to be able to play together?