[Restriction Campaign of Illegal Program Usage in Silkroad]

[Progress]

Chinese dont have the euro bufs. So its not really a fair comparision. But even in a euro party, it takes forever to reach level 100. People just get tired of it, so they turn to botting. How much fun is it really to see and same death animations and hear the same sfx 5000000 (probably that far off) times?

What is your actual argument to chinese not being solo chars?

Chinese are good for solo, but they should be able to party with each other as well.

In what way are they good for soloing? What is the definition of good? I think thats a relative term. Sure they don't die, but are they better than any other race? No, in fact they are the worst.

And "should be able to party"? Does that mean they can't but should? (like in a balanced game?)

They don't necessarily need buffs.

Yes they do. Its about competition. Do the benefits of having a chinese 8-man party outweigh botting 24/7?

I'm not saying a Chinese party will be just as "good" or "efficient" as a European party

Then what is the point? Euros are simply better. They have no disadvantages. People gonna work their ass off in a chinese party when they still get left behind?

, but there's a reason there are different classes of Chinese.

There are basically two classes. Damage dealers or healers (force tree). And players quickly realized that force is just no good. So what ever intention JM had by creating the force tree, it certainly didn't work in the game.

You can still have a tank, a damage dealer, someone to lure mobs, a healer. Chinese classes can work well together in a party, it's just a bit different than a European party.

Yeah, its different alright. Different as in worse and pointless. How many times have you actually seen a chinese party of eight stand in one spot and grind together? (goldbots dont count)

That doesn't mean Chinese simply cannot party and are just solo characters.

They can join a party, but it's pointless.

People whine about grinding because it takes a shitload of time and is Farking boring (even if you are in a party).

I actually like grinding, even solo, but parties are more fun. I just don't enjoy it for extended periods of time. I also love skiing, but I wouldn't necessarily want to do it for 5 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

The point of playing the game for most people is being able to beat up other players. If you grind 5 hours/day and everybody else bots 10 hours/day, your effort basically does not exist, as you can never beat any other player. Do you still like it even when you know that your work can never be used for anything related to pvp?

Skiing is a bad example. It requires physical effort.

[PR0METHEUS]

Chinese are good for solo, but they should be able to party with each other as well.

In what way are they good for soloing? What is the definition of good? I think thats a relative term. Sure they don't die, but are they better than any other race? No, in fact they are the worst.

Ok good is a relative term. I've always considered Chinese to be "better" at soloing and European to be "better" at party play. With the pot delay, euros seem to have a harder time soloing because they don't have the benefit of party buffs that they rely on. I've soloed on a wizard, but somewhat slowly because I kept having to run away from mobs if my HP got too low and pots weren't kicking in. On a blader, I can just tank the mobs and keep on killing.

And "should be able to party"? Does that mean they can't but should? (like in a balanced game?)

Should as in there is nothing wrong with a group of Chinese partying together. It's more entertaining than solo, and you do get an exp bonus for partying, even if it's not as "good" as european parties.

They don't necessarily need buffs.

Yes they do. Its about competition. Do the benefits of having a chinese 8-man party outweigh botting 24/7?

It's not about competition for everyone. Some people just want to level up, or get some drops, or whatever. Chinese in an 8-man party would get more exp per hour than a bot grinding solo. Even a solo Chinese can get more exp per hour than a solo bot because bots are not that efficient. If you span that over an entire day, of course the 24/7 bot will get more exp throughout the day. However, there are other benefits to party play (socializing being one) over botting.

I'm not saying a Chinese party will be just as "good" or "efficient" as a European party

Then what is the point? Euros are simply better. They have no disadvantages. People gonna work their ass off in a chinese party when they still get left behind?

The point is to have fun. I think a lot of people, myself included, would think partying with friends is more fun than partying by yourself, even if the experience gain isn't quite as big as a euro party. I think the point of a game should be to just have fun. That may or may not mean being the best. Not everyone can be the best, and some people are okay with that.

, but there's a reason there are different classes of Chinese.

There are basically two classes. Damage dealers or healers (force tree). And players quickly realized that force is just no good. So what ever intention JM had by creating the force tree, it certainly didn't work in the game.

Well bladers are tankers, but deal decent damage too. You could have str bowmen luring mobs, bladers aggro them to tank while nukers kill them off. Any one of those (maybe the blader) could have force in case someone dies. The blader can res them and continue tanking, or even heal someone getting in trouble while continuing to tank. Sure, it works a bit different than euro parties, and perhaps not as efficient, but it's still a feasible party. All I'm saying basically is Chinese parties are possible, and it's a better option (if you're trying to level faster or just want to interact with friends) than soloing all the time.

You can still have a tank, a damage dealer, someone to lure mobs, a healer. Chinese classes can work well together in a party, it's just a bit different than a European party.

Yeah, its different alright. Different as in worse and pointless. How many times have you actually seen a chinese party of eight stand in one spot and grind together? (goldbots dont count)

Not sure how it's pointless if a chinese party will give each person in the party experience bonuses over soloing, and a chance to actually interact with friends. I've seen enough 8-man Chinese parties to know that they work. I've been in several myself, on a few different Chinese builds, but mostly on my blader.

That doesn't mean Chinese simply cannot party and are just solo characters.

They can join a party, but it's pointless.

Again, not pointless. Party exp gain > solo exp gain. Party socializing > solo socializing (if solo socializing even makes sense). Party drop rate > solo drop rate at least in as much as there are more mobs spawning.

I actually like grinding, even solo, but parties are more fun. I just don't enjoy it for extended periods of time. I also love skiing, but I wouldn't necessarily want to do it for 5 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

The point of playing the game for most people is being able to beat up other players. If you grind 5 hours/day and everybody else bots 10 hours/day, your effort basically does not exist, as you can never beat any other player. Do you still like it even when you know that your work can never be used for anything related to pvp?

Personally, I don't care about PVP. There are no benefits to it really, and it's a waste of pots. Sure, it's entertaining once in a while to PVP with friends, but I don't spend hours outside the gate just PVPing everyone I can find. If I'm going to PVP, I'd rather do it while jobbing or something else beneficial. I don't have to be a lvl 100 FF sun+10 to enjoy that.

[PatrokloS]

PROMETHEUS, try Perfect World That game is everything you describe as fun

[PR0METHEUS]

PROMETHEUS, try Perfect World That game is everything you describe as fun

I've played perfect world before. It had a weird delay whenever I would attack something, which got annoying.

[PatrokloS]

Dont know where you live, but for a year now a new Perfect World version exists: Multilanguage service, which has its servers based in Europe ... I got like ping 50 or less there

[PR0METHEUS]

Dont know where you live, but for a year now a new Perfect World version exists: Multilanguage service, which has its servers based in Europe ... I got like ping 50 or less there

I live on the east cost in the USA. I never thought of it before, but I guess the lag time actually doing attacks in PW could be because of ping times. I think I was playing the Malaysia version. I may check it out again sometime, but I really don't have much time to play games sadly enough.

[CeLL]

pw is confusing. if you wanna decent game go play cabal online. very quest based, and not hard to level.

[Progress]

Chinese are good for solo, but they should be able to party with each other as well.

In what way are they good for soloing? What is the definition of good? I think thats a relative term. Sure they don't die, but are they better than any other race? No, in fact they are the worst.

Ok good is a relative term. I've always considered Chinese to be "better" at soloing and European to be "better" at party play. With the pot delay, euros seem to have a harder time soloing because they don't have the benefit of party buffs that they rely on. I've soloed on a wizard, but somewhat slowly because I kept having to run away from mobs if my HP got too low and pots weren't kicking in. On a blader, I can just tank the mobs and keep on killing.

As have a lot of people here. Since Euros absolutely rape chinese when it comes to partying, most people automatically assume that there is some kind of innate balance which would tell us that chinese are indeed better at soloing. I can maybe give you that pure int euros are a bit problematic for botters to use (at lower levels), but full str euro chars grind faster than pure int chinese. At least at level around 80.

And "should be able to party"? Does that mean they can't but should? (like in a balanced game?)

Should as in there is nothing wrong with a group of Chinese partying together. It's more entertaining than solo, and you do get an exp bonus for partying, even if it's not as "good" as european parties.

But do chinese have any skills that "tie them together"? There weren't any when i was playing. Somewhat off topic, but if you like team play, is there any reason to make a chinese char? I don't see any.

They don't necessarily need buffs.

Yes they do. Its about competition. Do the benefits of having a chinese 8-man party outweigh botting 24/7?

It's not about competition for everyone. Some people just want to level up, or get some drops, or whatever. Chinese in an 8-man party would get more exp per hour than a bot grinding solo. Even a solo Chinese can get more exp per hour than a solo bot because bots are not that efficient. If you span that over an entire day, of course the 24/7 bot will get more exp throughout the day. However, there are other benefits to party play (socializing being one) over botting.

How can it not be about competition? Why would they want to level up if they are never going to use it for anything other than to continue to level up?

Actually, the bots grind at an optimal rate as long as they don't get stuck. You see this all the time. They are basically moving to the next mob before the server has told the client that the monster is dead. To keep this up as a human is just not viable.

Chinese do not have any skills that truly complement each other. Its always 1v1 in one way or another. So the socializing part you refer to can pretty much only consist of chatting with your guild mates.

I'm not saying a Chinese party will be just as "good" or "efficient" as a European party

Then what is the point? Euros are simply better. They have no disadvantages. People gonna work their ass off in a chinese party when they still get left behind?

The point is to have fun. I think a lot of people, myself included, would think partying with friends is more fun than partying by yourself, even if the experience gain isn't quite as big as a euro party. I think the point of a game should be to just have fun. That may or may not mean being the best. Not everyone can be the best, and some people are okay with that.

You are speaking for yourself and maybe your closest guild mates. As has become evident by the extreme number of bots on all servers, the overwhelming majority of players do not share your view. They consider fun to be PvP and showing of their gear.

, but there's a reason there are different classes of Chinese.

There are basically two classes. Damage dealers or healers (force tree). And players quickly realized that force is just no good. So what ever intention JM had by creating the force tree, it certainly didn't work in the game.

Well bladers are tankers, but deal decent damage too. You could have str bowmen luring mobs, bladers aggro them to tank while nukers kill them off. Any one of those (maybe the blader) could have force in case someone dies. The blader can res them and continue tanking, or even heal someone getting in trouble while continuing to tank. Sure, it works a bit different than euro parties, and perhaps not as efficient, but it's still a feasible party. All I'm saying basically is Chinese parties are possible, and it's a better option (if you're trying to level faster or just want to interact with friends) than soloing all the time.

Glaivers, bladers, bowers (usually) are all full str builds. The only real difference is that one has a shield (with accompanying skills) and the others do not. Euros have basically set the bar for what truly can be considered partying. I don't really see how this argument refutes anything i said.

It is techinically possible to party with chinese characters, but thats about it. With everything considered (euros), there is no advantage. And chinese do not solo. They bot (albeit alone).

You can still have a tank, a damage dealer, someone to lure mobs, a healer. Chinese classes can work well together in a party, it's just a bit different than a European party.

Yeah, its different alright. Different as in worse and pointless. How many times have you actually seen a chinese party of eight stand in one spot and grind together? (goldbots dont count)

Not sure how it's pointless if a chinese party will give each person in the party experience bonuses over soloing, and a chance to actually interact with friends. I've seen enough 8-man Chinese parties to know that they work. I've been in several myself, on a few different Chinese builds, but mostly on my blader.

It's pointless compared to euros and botting. Players can interact via the chat regardless of where they are located (you know this as well). If you have seen chinese 8-man parties, good for you. I stopped playing in dec 2006 and came back for a few months before the 90 cap came out and i never ever saw a chinese 8-man party.

That doesn't mean Chinese simply cannot party and are just solo characters.

They can join a party, but it's pointless.

Again, not pointless. Party exp gain > solo exp gain. Party socializing > solo socializing (if solo socializing even makes sense). Party drop rate > solo drop rate at least in as much as there are more mobs spawning.

Sure, but botting > all. Thats why people do it.

I actually like grinding, even solo, but parties are more fun. I just don't enjoy it for extended periods of time. I also love skiing, but I wouldn't necessarily want to do it for 5 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

The point of playing the game for most people is being able to beat up other players. If you grind 5 hours/day and everybody else bots 10 hours/day, your effort basically does not exist, as you can never beat any other player. Do you still like it even when you know that your work can never be used for anything related to pvp?

Personally, I don't care about PVP. There are no benefits to it really, and it's a waste of pots. Sure, it's entertaining once in a while to PVP with friends, but I don't spend hours outside the gate just PVPing everyone I can find. If I'm going to PVP, I'd rather do it while jobbing or something else beneficial. I don't have to be a lvl 100 FF sun+10 to enjoy that.

Do you think most players will agree with you on this? People go test their skills constantly by pvping. If they lose too much, they go back to botting and come back a little later.

[Goseki]

I'm not gonna bother reading the pages of bickering between progress and prometheus, but in case someone hasn't brought this up:

Another proof that china are better at grinding alone and single pvp than euros:

Items

In case no one has noticed ( ignore of course if this has already been brought up ) Euros can ONLY wear their items when THEY have the necessary MASTERY. Of course in iSRO, almost all the euros are ff since they were bot-ong-farmed to cap. In the original gameplay though when 24/7 ong farming wasn't in the equation of balance. Euros would be great at group pvp. They would have low lvl items to wear, but their team buffs would balance it out. In today's game however, we have ff euros wearing items their lvl and having team buffs in pvp. This pretty much makes it unfair.

Although I've only pvped at 80 and below, never bothered going past 80 anyways. Even ff euros go down relatively quick. IMO, euros don't solo pvp. If they do, it's freaking boring. A 1-shot kill is never a pvp. That's just stupid. If i wanted to have a 1-shot pvp, i'd go fight mangyangs.

In party play, if china was wearing normal items, they would be able to grind at mobs their lvl alone. There is no advantage to grinding in a party. If euros were to wear items a few lvls below them due to a gap, they would get raped at mobs their lvl unless they were in a party. Test it out. Get on ur euro, go wear a degree lower set than urs, and try to grind on your normal mobs. Lemme know how far you end up delvling.

[ravkin]

3. When continuously illegal program usage is detected, the account would be restricted.

As the result, only normal client should be used. Any programs which might be considered as illegal programs should not be used.

Okay so before you forget the big try of joymax to bann all bots, lets see their third point, what when we see we should expect a big bot bann tomorrow after inspection. Their first point points out that hacked clients cannot be used anymore, but according to the 3rd point it seems joymax prepared for that botters will hack the system and get inside the game. Hopefully this system have a server side to help gms to detect the bots. Otherwise if not, it was a pointless and annoying thing to force delay the new roc update just because of their "better game quality" .

[Teddybeer]

no bloody was just supporting bots.


this stunt jm is pulling is common. if they DO actually block (all)bots, ill likely shit my pants.

Because you would lose like 11 chars, according to your sig?

ahum i would lose his chars
i hacked him remember cough

[Hennessey]

atleast mine are safe.

[TillTheEnd]

seems there won't be any more bot bans, just client modifications, my bet is that it will be crack within 1-2hrs this time.

[pimpednammer]

anyone who has Farking 1000+ posts need to get laid.
honestly.

[Amarisa]

anyone who has Farking 1000+ posts need to get laid.
honestly.

wow............ this deserves a facepalm picture but there is just too much fail.

[Panu]

anyone who has Farking 1000+ posts need to get laid.
honestly.

wow............ this deserves a facepalm picture but there is just too much fail.

... like so?

[PR0METHEUS]

anyone who has Farking 1000+ posts need to get laid.
honestly.

I have 3k+ posts and I have two daughters. They weren't conceived on the first try. What does that say about your theory?

Not that I care about post count.

[BloodyBlade]

anyone who has Farking 1000+ posts need to get laid.
honestly.

I have 3k+ posts and I have two daughters. They weren't conceived on the first try. What does that say about your theory?

Not that I care about post count.

[pimpednammer]

anyone who has Farking 1000+ posts need to get laid.
honestly.

I have 3k+ posts and I have two daughters. They weren't conceived on the first try. What does that say about your theory?

Not that I care about post count.

that says you need to get off games pops.

[PR0METHEUS]

anyone who has Farking 1000+ posts need to get laid.
honestly.

I have 3k+ posts and I have two daughters. They weren't conceived on the first try. What does that say about your theory?

Not that I care about post count.

that says you need to get off games pops.

I haven't actually played SRO in at least 8 months. I do play a very very little bit of Jade Dynasty though. Besides, what's wrong with a little entertainment after the kids are in bed for the night? I suppose I could be spending my gaming time (very limited) watching TV instead??

Pops? LOL I'm only 30!

[pr0klobster]

that says you need to get off games pops.

You know, normally I don't do this, as Prom can defend himself and I'm sure he's not insulted...Not to mention telling someone this on a GAMING forum that you yourself are part of...hehehe

but
says the guy desperate for a lvl 42 bow...

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
no one sells 6 degree items anymore asdkfjasdfnasdfj
please someone sell me a good lvl 42 bow =(
i may even accept white ones
please
please

Irony, party of 1!

[pimpednammer]

oh shit did i just make beef with SROF seniors?
well jee sorry for enjoying my youth.
30 years old and still posting on a game's forum?
do I even need to say anything about that?..
@ pr0klobster..
harsh troll.. that post is old and what does that have to do with anything?..

30 years old.. seriously..
I'm in awe.
3000+ posts got you some nice respect in SROF eh?
hahaha useless irrelvent internet respect..
maybe some more adults with no life can back you up bud.
you say you havn't played the game this forum is based on for 8 months, yet you still raise your post count up plenty..
bahahahaha.
That sir, is true irony. Learn how to set it up, @ pr0klobster

[pr0klobster]

oh shit did i just make beef with SROF seniors?
well jee sorry for enjoying my youth.
30 years old and still posting on a game's forum?
do I even need to say anything about that?..
@ pr0klobster..
harsh troll.. that post is old and what does that have to do with anything?..

30 years old.. seriously..
I'm in awe.
3000+ posts got you some nice respect in SROF eh?
hahaha useless irrelvent internet respect..
maybe some more adults with no life can back you up bud.
you say you havn't played the game this forum is based on for 8 months, yet you still raise your post count up plenty..
bahahahaha.
That sir, is true irony. Learn how to set it up, @ pr0klobster

Nope. Look around, OTL and other games section are plenty busy too. And maybe, just maybe, he's been here longer than you (2006) so yeah, he'd have more posts.

Hm, I have more posts than you too. Think I care?

Adults with no life? You're the one trolling. I just felt like responding before you get in too much more trouble.

[pimpednammer]

what the ****?

[PR0METHEUS]

oh shit did i just make beef with SROF seniors?
well jee sorry for enjoying my youth.
30 years old and still posting on a game's forum?
do I even need to say anything about that?..
@ pr0klobster..
harsh troll.. that post is old and what does that have to do with anything?..

30 years old.. seriously..
I'm in awe.
3000+ posts got you some nice respect in SROF eh?
hahaha useless irrelvent internet respect..
maybe some more adults with no life can back you up bud.
you say you havn't played the game this forum is based on for 8 months, yet you still raise your post count up plenty..
bahahahaha.
That sir, is true irony. Learn how to set it up, @ pr0klobster

I post on SRF because I enjoy taking part in the community, chatting with old friends, keeping updated on what's going on, and perhaps helping some newcomers along the way. I couldn't care less about my post count and wouldn't be at all bothered if the mod team removed post count displays entirely.

It doesn't matter that it's a gaming forum. It could be a hiking forum, or a knitting forum, or a movie forum, or a computer forum. It's a forum, and a pretty darn good one <3.

I have plenty enough of a life outside SRF and video games. My wife and two daughters keep me plenty busy, and my full time embedded software engineering job takes up most of the rest of my time. Yet I still have time to take my girls out on day trips to various places on mini family vacations and hang out with friends from time to time.

Where's your life if you're spending it all trolling a gaming forum and complaining about the "old" people here? There are plenty of "old" people on SRF, and even iSRO itself. Age doesn't matter.

[lilly_]

Lol, this thread completely turned into a "let's see who can end being the last one to post"

[PR0METHEUS]

Lol, this thread completely turned into a "let's see who can end being the last one to post"

How DARE you post after my last post! :p

Getting back to the topic, I'm glad to at least see Joymax actually admitting the problem. They're claiming to have changed their policies, forming a new policy against bots and illegal software use. Did Joymax put any of this in their TOS?

[pr0klobster]

Lol, this thread completely turned into a "let's see who can end being the last one to post"

How DARE you post after my last post! :p

Getting back to the topic, I'm glad to at least see Joymax actually admitting the problem. They're claiming to have changed their policies, forming a new policy against bots and illegal software use. Did Joymax put any of this in their TOS?

I think the operations policy states it...also is in the FAQ, but that may not be a legally binding document. However, this doesn't read very harshly... "will" instead of "may". It still leaves them a big loophole, and conflicts with the FAQ.

"2. Users found to be using or distributing illegal programs may be subject to restrictions of their account or have their account deleted. In particular cases, the user may be subject to investigation by the proper authorities. "

Q: Can I be unbanned for Illegal Program Use?
A: Your account was detected in use of third party programs. These accounts are thoroughly investigated and will not be un-banned under any circumstances.