GM (General Motors) almost bankrupt.

[Du De Wei]

do you guys think its a good idea to bail them out? They screwed up at the management level, its their fault. I don't know how $25 billion is going to make them better leaders.

I dont think giving them more money so they can hire more workers to continue to make the same crappy cars will help they deserve to crash and burn and America will be overrun with japanese and european cars

[Avalanche]

Sharp you a moron, I'm not even going to acknowledge that post.

Cause your so Farking wrong its funny. GT500 is not a Farking mustang kid. Go take your POS V6.

Just to prove even further than you are a moron,

http://www.shelbyautos.com/vehicles.asp

Code: Select all

We are poised to introduce a new line of Authentic Shelby Components for the new 2005 and later Mustang as well as a few special items for the new awesome Shelby GT500 Mustang.

You sir, are a moron.

[Sharp324]

Would you rather me call it a Shelby? Cobra? ITS A Farking MUSTANG YOU TWAT.

Its not a mustang you dumbass. Its Shelby, the body is ford but its quality is way better than any other ford body. The engine is Shelby. Its not a Farking mustang. Though to be fair to you some are labled Mustang for fords sake. Due to it being made as a sports car. It is a Shelby...

No, son. You calling the GT500 a mustang is just stupid. Your little mustang is nothing close to a GT500. Its a Shelby.

[Barotix]

So, when is Bush or Obama going to bailout the car companies? Corportism FTW! Our founding fathers fought to remove the Corporatist Autocratic Mercantile British Regime and here we are doing everything that disgusted our founders.

do you guys think its a good idea to bail them out? They screwed up at the management level, its their fault. I don't know how $25 billion is going to make them better leaders.

Long Version

Spoiler!

It won't make them better leaders, but doesn't the state always do this? Reward failure. It seems that is all the state does now a days; reward failure.
Problem: Education is getting worse:
Solution: "More Money"
Problem: Health Care is getting expensive:
Solution: "Expand LBJ's great failure and protect our pharmaceutical monopoly corporations from being sued or driven out of business by competant small business manufactures on the market. Also prevent doctors from coming up with cheap and affordable check ups. Also, No insurance; no check up. Finally, make insurance available from a job only."
Problem: Car companies are going bankrupt:
Solution: "BAIL OUT!"
If a child stole a piece of candy and was about to get in trouble and you rescued him from trouble wouldn't the child do it again? I don't know what fantasy world these bureaucrats are from, but in this reality people fail and people succeed.

The argument for bailouts is badly built. "These institutions are to big to fail." Well, lets have a thought test. Supposedly, the entire south relied on slave labor. Well, if the south was an agrarian society and that entire region relied on slave labor what would you do if slavery started faltering? What if slavery still existed in that old form, and it started to fail? What if slaveholders started losing slaves (due to disease and the apprenticeship system). Is it the role of the state to prop up that institution because an entire region relies on it?

tl;dr version
When the founders created America they wanted a country with real consequences. Rewarding bad behavior produces more bad behavior; let us learn from the agriculture department: subsidies force prices up and drag quality down. Plain and Simple.

[SidiousX]

This Thread is one big b!tch fight.

[XemnasXD]

This Thread is one big b!tch fight.

a b1tch fight about cars no less....


still, entertaining.....

[Pan_Raider(`_´)]

pfft..

cars stay cars.

for now

[Reise]

lol Look at all the bitching about cars here.

It's like Ford vs Chevy only it's American vs European. And it's still retarded and baseless. A car's a car you f*cking morons. You're going to find cheap/expensive and powerful/powerless on both sides.

[Rainigul]

I like american sports cars, their other cars suck ass though. And other countries can make even better sports cars too, but americans always make them look cool. Dodge viper kicks my ass.

[Grimjaw]

Totally went off topic here, flamers and trolls can't even maintain a basic conversation.

[[SD]Master_Wong]

Would you rather me call it a Shelby? Cobra? ITS A Farking MUSTANG YOU TWAT.

Its not a mustang you dumbass. Its Shelby, the body is ford but its quality is way better than any other ford body. The engine is Shelby. Its not a Farking mustang. Though to be fair to you some are labled Mustang for fords sake. Due to it being made as a sports car. It is a Shelby...

No, son. You calling the GT500 a mustang is just stupid. Your little mustang is nothing close to a GT500. Its a Shelby.

you do realise shelby only put his name on the fastest and best MUSTANGS

gt500 can either be called one of these
GT500 Mustang
GT500 Shelby Mustang
GT500 Shelby
Shelby GT500 Mustang
Shelby Mustang GT500
Shelby GT500
or just GT500

so just to point out you know **** all and i hardly know anything about cars

cept the one were talking about is my fav

[Avalanche]

Totally went off topic here, flamers and trolls can't even maintain a basic conversation.

I knew it would turn into another flame fest of american cars once this was posted.

The only positive outlook on giving GM more money is to hire more employees instead of handing out the pink slips, boost the economy a little.

Also, no way is the government going to let the BIGGEST American car industry go bankrupt.

[Avalanche]

Democratic leaders in Congress asked the Bush administration on Saturday to provide more aid to the struggling auto industry, which is bleeding cash and jobs as sales have dropped to their lowest level in a quarter-century.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said in a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson that the administration should consider expanding the $700 billion bailout to include car companies.

Basically, they claimed that they were not ready for the sudden rise in gas prices, and that is what screwed them over.

Cole says there's no way at this point the Detroit automakers can survive without federal aid. But if they get it, the ones that do survive should become profitable again next year if the credit markets thaw out.

[Barotix]

Also, no way is the government going to let the BIGGEST American car industry go bankrupt.

It doesn't matter if the government should let them or not; the constitution does not allow it.

[Avalanche]

Even if the constitution does not allow it, do you think the government will not give them aid?

[Reise]

They'll likely do something stupid to support them. Gotta love the monopolies, so large that the government can't risk them tanking or they'll cause a huge blow to the economy.

[Avalanche]

Seems automakers need more money from their previous $25 billion loan.

To survive, automakers are pressing Washington for $50 billion in low-interest loans on top of $25 billion already approved to build more fuel-efficient vehicles. The $25 billion, though, is gummed up in Energy Department regulations and may not be available until next year.

They were already loaned $25 billion dollars to invest on alternate/fuel efficient vehicles. Now, they claim they need 2x the original amount the received before.

But, that original $25 billion dollars did NOT go to waste. Chevy is releasing in 2010, a new vehicle called the Volt (If you didn't see the link i posted before, here it is again: http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/) They even got two new hybrids on the market, the Malibu hybrid, and the Tahoe SUV Hybrid. Even Ford is upping their fuel economy with their new "Ecoboost" turbo engines in 2010.

I think, or HOPE, this extra $50 billion will bale them out, and keep them out of trouble for a very long time.

[Barotix]

These bail outs make no sense; these people are only capable of thinking about short term gains and losses. They never think about the long run.

[Jstar1]

These bail outs make no sense; these people are only capable of thinking about short term gains and losses. They never think about the long run.

yeah but you have to consider the short term effects even if the long term effects are more important. If GM falls on its face then theres going to be so many people out of work it'll affect the whole economy. Anyways, we shouldn't have put all our money on the auto industry

[Barotix]

So failure to make sound decisions should be rewarded. Every venture has real consequences, and unless these businesses have the fear of failure in them they will continue to participate in massive malinvestment. Job loss is part of the private sector; preventing necessary changes slows progress. What these bureaucrats wish to do is create a world where nothing fails. A fantasy world where everyone participates in malinvestment, mismanagement, and speculation without the fear of losing their job. Such a world screams of Fascism.

[XemnasXD]

They'll likely do something stupid to support them. Gotta love the monopolies, so large that the government can't risk them tanking or they'll cause a huge blow to the economy.

we still have an economy left?

[Avalanche]

So failure to make sound decisions should be rewarded. Every venture has real consequences, and unless these businesses have the fear of failure in them they will continue to participate in massive malinvestment. Job loss is part of the private sector; preventing necessary changes slows progress. What these bureaucrats wish to do is create a world where nothing fails. A fantasy world where everyone participates in malinvestment, mismanagement, and speculation without the fear of losing their job. Such a world screams of Fascism.

If GM fails, that is the last nail in the coffin for America. Even if GM f'ed up big time, we can't afford this loss.

[Barotix]

So failure to make sound decisions should be rewarded. Every venture has real consequences, and unless these businesses have the fear of failure in them they will continue to participate in massive malinvestment. Job loss is part of the private sector; preventing necessary changes slows progress. What these bureaucrats wish to do is create a world where nothing fails. A fantasy world where everyone participates in malinvestment, mismanagement, and speculation without the fear of losing their job. Such a world screams of Fascism.

If GM fails, that is the last nail in the coffin for America. Even if GM f'ed up big time, we can't afford this loss.

We can't afford the loss? I believe they said the same about some lending institutions that no longer exist. America won't fall; the government may fail, but the individuals in America will always be there.

[Avalanche]

So you are saying it is okay if our Government fails? That will lead towards total Anarchy, most of the individuals of America are complete morons.

[Barotix]

So you are saying it is okay if our Government fails? That will lead towards total Anarchy, most of the individuals of America are complete morons.

People are not stupid. In the worst case scenario human ingenuity will prevail.

[Avalanche]

So you are saying it is okay if our Government fails? That will lead towards total Anarchy, most of the individuals of America are complete morons.

People are not stupid. In the worst case scenario human ingenuity will prevail.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

[Barotix]

So you are saying it is okay if our Government fails? That will lead towards total Anarchy, most of the individuals of America are complete morons.

People are not stupid. In the worst case scenario human ingenuity will prevail.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

It is true; we as a nation are intentionally being dumbed down, but it isn't because we're naturally stupid. Lacking the proper stimulation our generation will prove to be one of the dumbest. Here's a book I think you will enjoy:
The underground history of schooling

It's a collection of essays written by a public school teacher that left the system after being disillusioned. I think you'll find the process by which they're dumbing children down interesting (It's been going on since the 30s and it's working). Reading and self-education is the only form of mental salvation. Then again; anything universal, over a long period of time, to meet the needs of all customers will start to degrade in quality.

Excerpt:

In 1882, fifth graders read these authors in their Appleton School Reader: William Shakespeare, Henry Thoreau, George Washington, Sir Walter Scott, Mark Twain, Benjamin Franklin, Oliver Wendell Holmes, John Bunyan, Daniel Webster, Samuel Johnson, Lewis Carroll, Thomas Jefferson, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and others like them. In 1995, a student teacher of fifth graders in Minneapolis wrote to the local newspaper, "I was told children are not to be expected to spell the following words correctly: back, big, call, came, can, day, did, dog, down, get, good, have, he, home, if, in, is, it, like, little, man, morning, mother, my, night, off, out, over, people, play, ran, said, saw, she, some, soon, their, them, there, time, two, too, up, us, very, water, we, went, where, when, will, would, etc. Is this nuts?"

[Rainigul]

It is true; we as a nation are intentionally being dumbed down, but it isn't because we're naturally stupid. Lacking the proper stimulation our generation will prove to be one of the dumbest. Here's a book I think you will enjoy:
The underground history of schooling

It's a collection of essays written by a public school teacher that left the system after being disillusioned. I think you'll find the process by which they're dumbing children down interesting (It's been going on since the 30s and it's working). Reading and self-education is the only form of mental salvation. Then again; anything universal, over a long period of time, to meet the needs of all customers will start to degrade in quality.

Excerpt:

In 1882, fifth graders read these authors in their Appleton School Reader: William Shakespeare, Henry Thoreau, George Washington, Sir Walter Scott, Mark Twain, Benjamin Franklin, Oliver Wendell Holmes, John Bunyan, Daniel Webster, Samuel Johnson, Lewis Carroll, Thomas Jefferson, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and others like them. In 1995, a student teacher of fifth graders in Minneapolis wrote to the local newspaper, "I was told children are not to be expected to spell the following words correctly: back, big, call, came, can, day, did, dog, down, get, good, have, he, home, if, in, is, it, like, little, man, morning, mother, my, night, off, out, over, people, play, ran, said, saw, she, some, soon, their, them, there, time, two, too, up, us, very, water, we, went, where, when, will, would, etc. Is this nuts?"

That's sickening. It sickens me to know that I'm reading a shakespeare play in 10th grade which is the exact same play I read in 7th grade. It sickens me to know that I'm doing this and I'm considered to be in the "advanced" class. It sickens me that even in 7th grade, it was an exceptionally easy task. It sickens me to know I'm doing calculus in 10th grade when I could have easily mashed algebra 1 and 2 into the same year, and done geometry in a semester. I hate how in the US (where I am now, where I was born) people are either so obsessed with getting A's, when it should be getting 50% passes and getting 80% is a holy shit you're doing awesome because the work should be hard. It shouldn't be easy to get 100% every time. And it sickens me that some people will get back a test which states "C-" and they'll say "... YES!"
Last year a girl came up to me at the end of the year and said "thanks for all the help, you is so smart, keep it up". She was in 9th grade and didn't know proper English worked.

Whatever, that link just pissed me off.

[Jstar1]

So you are saying it is okay if our Government fails? That will lead towards total Anarchy, most of the individuals of America are complete morons.

People are not stupid. In the worst case scenario human ingenuity will prevail.

it would only work if everyone thought like you. And a lot of people are dumb. Not everyone in the US are well educated and/or well informed.

[Avalanche]

So you are saying it is okay if our Government fails? That will lead towards total Anarchy, most of the individuals of America are complete morons.

People are not stupid. In the worst case scenario human ingenuity will prevail.

it would only work if everyone thought like you. And a lot of people are dumb. Not everyone in the US are well educated and/or well informed.

Prime example: The mid-west.

Its the truth, no one can argue it. If there was no government, they would all turn into nazi supremacists and shank every non white human and turn this country into anarchy.