Are you religious ?

[/Pi]

Russell's Teapot

[Nuklear]

FSM ftw

[user]

I'm a devoted Ameliest.

that looks just like a penis, but smaller

[LaloHao]

I just got 1 thing to say
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[_Scarlett_]

The truth is that we all really don't know if these places or persons exisit or not. All you can really do is hope. As for me, I'm more a person who decides after being presented with evidence. Also, I don't really see how someone would be sent to an eternity of damnation for simply not believing...seems a little extreme.

[Nuklear]

_Scarlett_ WUL'd

[Grimm-.-]

The truth is that we all really don't know if these places or persons exisit or not. All you can really do is hope. As for me, I'm more a person who decides after being presented with evidence. Also, I don't really see how someone would be sent to an eternity of damnation for simply not believing...seems a little extreme.

+1
...
I really cant believe something without evidence especially something as far-fetched as the tooth fairy(Religion)

[Grimm-.-]

Sorry for the double post but...

This was one of the link at the end of that video...

http://www.godisimaginary.com/index.htm


I am not trying to convert or insult anyone on this forum but if you dont find enough evidence there that god dosn't exist then....Ah...
You must be some sort of primitive alien who has the iQ of cake...(Thats not meant as an insult)

[mike2007]

no and, for a couple damn good reasons.

I just got 1 thing to say
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thats part of it, but also its y do most ppl need religion? religion is there simply to keep ppl from doing unethical/immoral things. now some ppl will say that religion does do this for them, but quite a few ppl these days cant b a moral, honest, and decent person with it. therefor i say if religion cant even serve the purpose its supposed to and, more so if i can b a moral and decent person without it, y do i need it? asnwer: i dont, so i dont have 1. as a result of these i do not believe in god, jesus, heaven, or hell or anything else that has to do with religion.

[Grimm-.-]

no and, for a couple damn good reasons.

I just got 1 thing to say
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thats part of it, but also its y do most ppl need religion? religion is there simply to keep ppl from doing unethical/immoral things. now some ppl will say that religion does do this for them, but quite a few ppl these days cant b a moral, honest, and decent person with it. therefor i say if religion cant even serve the purpose its supposed to and, more so if i can b a moral and decent person without it, y do i need it? asnwer: i dont, so i dont have 1. as a result of these i do not believe in god, jesus, heaven, or hell or anything else that has to do with religion.

Well I used to be religious, And i think the mane reason that i was religious is because i was afraid. -Afraid of dieing, And just being forgotten, So i thought that wouldn't happen, And you would go to heaven and be happy.

But it is really just a fantasy.
I mean...Honestly now that i think of it its just....insane and...irrational.
It makes no sense. Its like some smart guy figured out that if he made up these crazy stories and wrote this book giving people hope of life after death he would be greatly respected...

At least thats how i see it.

[mahumps]

I believe in God but I don't believe in a place called hell. As far as I know and as far as what I was taught God is forgiving so why would he make a place something like hell?

And I believe in tedtwiller's(lol not sure of the spelling) theory. Lot's of people convert because they're afraid of hell but they don't even practice what they believe in, or did they really believe? Those people are false christians.

Another is I also believe what that other guy said about choices. Everyone has a choice and Christianity doesn't not force people to believe. If ever you find people forcing you to believe in their God it's a mistake and I don't agree on that part. It's not supposed to be force but freely accepted. And about that text in the bible that said God ordering someone to do this or else... If you read the whole text in the end it was all for the best. Not saying he went to heaven but the guy being forced to felt good in the end.

anyway GTG peace out

[vivien]

My mom's family is buddhist, and my dad's is roman catholic, and most of the moral values I learned, I believe, but Im not really that religious or believe in reincarnation/ an afterlife, or a reincarnation/afterlife that serves as punishment.

I dont feel the need, or want, to have a luxurious eternal life ( I accept the scientific facts). this one is enough, and Ill be happy to simply go to sleep after a 'long day's work'.

[slytther]

No i don't believe in god..I go to hell anyways.

[Grimm-.-]

I believe in God but I don't believe in a place called hell. As far as I know and as far as what I was taught God is forgiving so why would he make a place something like hell?

And I believe in tedtwiller's(lol not sure of the spelling) theory. Lot's of people convert because they're afraid of hell but they don't even practice what they believe in, or did they really believe? Those people are false christians.

Another is I also believe what that other guy said about choices. Everyone has a choice and Christianity doesn't not force people to believe. If ever you find people forcing you to believe in their God it's a mistake and I don't agree on that part. It's not supposed to be force but freely accepted. And about that text in the bible that said God ordering someone to do this or else... If you read the whole text in the end it was all for the best. Not saying he went to heaven but the guy being forced to felt good in the end.
anyway GTG peace out

How can you believe that there is no hell when apparently god (The writer of the bible) or something of that matter, Includes hell in his writings.
And what happens to all of the murderers and rapists out there...They go to heaven? and live with eternal happiness...

If you really think of it none of it makes any sence.

[Nuklear]

Grimm, you can believe and not be religious. Deism
Deists usually fall under the, "We don't have a definite answer for the creation of the universe yet, so instead we'll have faith in the supernatural, something unscientific." So, instead of being fractally wrong, they're just wrong.

[Grandpa]

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I've never understood what 'religious' means.
OC it means different things to different ppl.

Also I don't know what 'meh' means.
Took me forever to understand that STFU didn't mean 'Stuff You' (like it sounds)

Somebody told me that 'religion' is man reaching up to touch god.
And 'christianity' was god reaching to man.
I kinda like that part.

I don't know Him, but believe He knows me.
So, I guess that makes me religious?

~Grandpa

[mahumps]

I believe in God but I don't believe in a place called hell. As far as I know and as far as what I was taught God is forgiving so why would he make a place something like hell?

And I believe in tedtwiller's(lol not sure of the spelling) theory. Lot's of people convert because they're afraid of hell but they don't even practice what they believe in, or did they really believe? Those people are false christians.

Another is I also believe what that other guy said about choices. Everyone has a choice and Christianity doesn't not force people to believe. If ever you find people forcing you to believe in their God it's a mistake and I don't agree on that part. It's not supposed to be force but freely accepted. And about that text in the bible that said God ordering someone to do this or else... If you read the whole text in the end it was all for the best. Not saying he went to heaven but the guy being forced to felt good in the end.
anyway GTG peace out

How can you believe that there is no hell when apparently god (The writer of the bible) or something of that matter, Includes hell in his writings.
And what happens to all of the murderers and rapists out there...They go to heaven? and live with eternal happiness...

If you really think of it none of it makes any sence.

That's my point I believe in God and all his actions but I don't believe in hell. Let's put it this way He gave Jesus to save us from sin, if He did a very heavy thing like that and in the end he will still make something like hell why do He have to give Jesus? Why not just let those bad guys go to hell in the first place?

The only thing I believe is God and his deeds. That I'm not supposed to do something immoral. That I should do good at most times(because I know I do sin sometimes or most of the time lol). I'm not religious, I don't believe in hell and I don't feel the need to believe in all the church's rituals.

That's my faith and that's the thing I believe. I'm Roman Catholic BTW(I know some of my beliefs are not part of the catholic order/belief).

[Falcon]

No i don't believe in god ,but sure there is something

[Grandpa]

Granps is so tempted to post here.
Because the topic is one that he loves.

But after years of study (I could quote things you've never heard of)
It comes down to this...

"My good daddy wouldn't do that"

And I don't give a freak what experts say.
He wouldn't steal money from poor ppl like they do.
He wouldn't send ppl to 'hell' forever either (also like they do, 'god damn 'em to hell') <~~~~ hush me, I didn't say that.

I do have word studies from Greek and know the differences between the words that were used (but I can't speak or read, just studies).
On the subject of eternal damnation I've got a 200 page document but I'll spare you that.
Click spoiler to look at just the footnotes on one page:

Spoiler!

1 See my "Aion-Aionious," pp. 109-14; also Josephus, "Antiq." and "Jewish Wars."
2 "De Præmiis" and "Poenis" Tom. II, pp. 19-20. Mangey's edition. Dollinger quoted by Beecher. Philo was learned in Greek philosophy, and especially reverenced Plato. His use of Greek is of the highest authority.
3 "Solom. Parab."
4 Donnegan, Grotius, Liddel, Max Muller, Beecher, Hist. Doc. Fut. Ret. pp. 73-75.
5 The important passage may be found more fully quoted in "Aion-Aionios."
6 Targum of Jonathan on Isaiah, xvi: 24. See also "Aion-Aionious" and "Bible Hell."
7 Farrar's "Mercy and Judgment." pp. 380-381, where quotations are given from the Fourth Century, asserting that punishment must be limited because aionian correction (aionian kolasin), as in Matt. xxv: 46, must be terminable.
8 "Christian Hist. in its Three Great Periods." pp. 257-8.
9 Introduction to Gospels. p. 181
10 The opinions of the Jews were modified at first by the captivity in Egypt fifteen centuries before Christ, and later by the Babylonian captivity, ending four hundred years before Christ, so that many of them, the Pharisees especially, no longer held the simple doctrines of Moses.
11 Robertson's History of the Christian Church, vol. 1. pp. 38-39.
12 The Book of Enoch, translated from the Ethiopian, with Introduction and Notes. By Rev. George H. Schodde.
13 Mark vii: 13; Matthew xvi: 6, 12; Luke xxi, 1; Mark viii, 15.
14 Milman Hist. Jews; Warburton's Divine Legation; Jahn, Archaeology.
15 Warburton. Leland's Necessity of Divine Revelation.
16 Virgil's æneid. Apollodorus, Hesiod, Herodotus, Plutarch, Diodorus Siculus, etc.
17 II Cor. xi: 3.
18 Milman's Gibbon, Murdock's Mosheim, Enfield's Hist. Philos., Universalist Expositor, 1853.
19 Coquerel's First Historical Transformations of Christianity.
20 See Conybeare's "Paul," Vol. I, Chapters 14,15.
21 See also Priestley's "Corruptions of Christianity."
22 Hist. Doct. I Sec. 22.
23 Vaughan's Causes of the Corruption of Christianity; also Casaubon and Blunt's "Vestiges."
24 Hist. Doct. Endelss Punishment, pp. 192-193.
25 Early Church History, pp. 159-160.

What it all comes down to is that it IS just like you thought it was when you were a kid.

He's good. That's all. And I just want to please Him.

~Grandpa

[Nuklear]

Does anyone else understand Gramps at all? Even if it made sense I don't see what it has to do with what's already been discussed.

[Grandpa]

Does anyone else understand Gramps at all? Even if it made sense I don't see what it has to do with what's already been discussed.

Ha~
If you were speaking to me, I'd reply. Others may have read the thread and know that there is a sub-thread about 'hell'.
C'mon, Nuklear. Don't speak like I'm not in the room.

~Grandpa
(hehehe, he called me Gramps)

[Barotix]

Does anyone else understand Gramps at all? Even if it made sense I don't see what it has to do with what's already been discussed.

I understand grandpa. He is arguing against the whole fear based Christianity with metaphors and analogies.

[NobleHunter]

Yes i am.

[Grandpa]

Does anyone else understand Gramps at all? Even if it made sense I don't see what it has to do with what's already been discussed.

I understand grandpa. He is arguing against the whole fear based Christianity with metaphors and analogies.

Greetings, Barotix!

Always nice to see you. And yes, even though I've used "fear based" tactics in the past (cough), that's it exactly.
But what I'm really saying is that lots of religious guy speak as if...

As if they know Him.
As if they can speak for HIM.

There is a very real difference between what was actually said by Jesus and the gang and what is being said by religious dudes on TV and in 'church' these days.
Our word Eon is derived from Aeon (technically from a Gnostic derivation) and it doesn't mean 'eternal'. Aionian(GR) means a non-specific period of time that has an end. When one wants to study word meanings it is crucial to look at every document available, especially Plato. Of course I can't do that, but what with computers now it's much easier. I've got a library of reference works on my shelves but seldom use them anymore.

Here's the story: Three (3) Players were having an argument.

1. Pharisees (who believe in Eternal Damnation and work yer way into heaven)
2. Sadducees (who don't believe in life after death)
   
   The word 'Sadducee' has Mishnaic Hebrew orgins in ṣədûqî, after ṣādôq, Zadok, high priest in the time of David and Solomon, from ṣādôq, meaning: Just, Righteous, from ṣādaq, to be just.
   They were priests of an aristocratic Jewish sect founded in the second century B.C. who rejected everything except the Torah (writings of Moses and Law).
3. And the Jesus gang (who were 'The Promise' & 'The Children of the Promise' respectively)
   
   Yeshua, spelled יֵשׁוּעַ (Hebrew)
   Koine Greek name Ἰησοῦς Yēsoûs or Iesous the son of Naue (translated Joshua, son of Nun in the Septuagint (GR / Latin)) for more confustration remember that every time the word "Hebrew" is used to describe a word or phrase in the New Testament, the word or phrase is actually in what we call today Aramaic.

It's like anything else though. If you listened to one side only you'd think that was all there was to say. Listening (reading) everybody takes time but you do get a very distinct idea of what the words actually meant. Actually the one God sent to speak about it (Paul) was a scholar and a Pharisee and a Zealot before he 'met' Christ so he should know.

I honestly think that the whole "Hellfire and Brimstone" as well as the "Seed Faith Giving" junk is just crafty foxes sneaking into the flock to help brotherWolf fleece us all. And don't think that being Agnostic or Atheist protects you either. We all share the same history like it or not. It was the 14th (16th maybe?) century Church of England that did the whole "Tithe=Taxes=Pay for Services like churching" thing. USA still does it, but in a reverse way in that they allow churches to be tax exempty.

"Catch us the little foxes for they spoil our wine." <~~ That is the 'voice' of the Bride.

Shepherds make a 'sheepcote' for their flock, predator would sneak in and rip the throats out of as many as wanted o.O -- dragging the bodies outside the protected area. I think the 'religious' among us need to be looked at with a jaundiced, critical eye. Jesus said, "I have another flock." We don't understand this generally but certainly He did. In other words, if somebody starts saying stuff about God and Times remember what Christ Jesus said, "It is not for you to know about times, but..." There are some things that God reserves for Himself.

Spoiler!

@Grimm: "You must be some sort of primitive alien who has the iQ of cake...(Thats not meant as an insult) "
<~~~~ heheheh... made me laugh. I like cake, almost as much as I like cheese.

@Nuklear: You said "fractally wrong" instead of factually.
Guess you are referring to "Fractal Wrongness"?

Fractal Wrongness:
The state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is, from a distance, a fractally wrong person's worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person's worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview.

I do appreciate the viewpoint very much.

What is ‘religion’?

Can ‘religion’ be defined by its antonyms?

• Agnostics?
• Atheism?
• Unbelief?
  With the exception of the latter, not in the broadest sense, no. (at least, not yet)

The religion of unbelief might be termed antidisestablishmentarianism or disestablishment? That one cornfues me, but it takes us back to the issue: The 19th-century Anglican Church in England and issues surrounding the separation of church and state. Madison debated this when he helped frame our Constitution.

I’d consider taking it a step further to remove the 'tax exemptiness' from churches but then broaden the thingy to include all benefits given to ‘religion’ to be extended to those who advocate non-religion if they do so with any particular zeal or conscientious devotion. That would include Atheists and Agnostics and Buddhists and any other that could be under the expanded definition.

Because when we, as a people, form laws (or vote for those who, as elected officials, will form laws for us) we need to be as broad in our aspect as possible to best represent the ‘we’ that we have become. My ancestors shed blood for the principles our country was founded on, I’m not about to stand down from that simply because I don’t like the way some people say things especially when we are otherwise at least "Ivory Soap Pure" (that is 99.99% if not 100%) in agreement. Group dynamics change over time. It's okay to admit this.

Some of these arguments (when boiled down to their elements) are like saying "You're not a legit SRO player because you sell things to people in stalls and THEY COULD have bought their gold from a gold bot..." sheesh...

@Mahumps: I don't say this ever, so please don't let it go to your head, from what I've read here so far everything you say makes perfect sense (to me).

@Open Letter /// To Whom It May Concern:
one sec... brb...
~Prayer~
Make these broken weary bones rise to dance again
Wet this dry and thirsty land... with a river
Lord, our eyes are fixed on You... we are waiting.
Adorn us with your garments.

Shout to the North and the South
Sing to the East and the West
We are strong when we feel weak
In our brokenness complete.

I am that single lonely drop of rain who falls
As I fall, I call
I am poured out all day
My tears have become my meat
That call, that cry, for company is heard
Heard and answered from Zion.

Rise up, fill this place with a river
The wilderness is Yours
And the beast
The desolate place also
As am I

I hear the voice of one crying...
Turn our hearts, O Lord. Hearts of the children to the fathers, the hearts of the fathers to the child.
Clean the inside of Your cup and prepare in us Your way.
For 'we' are the holy grail, each one hear.
And the angels will cry: " Heal this land "
And the earth will reply: " Hear this cry "

Lay your burdens down:
From the young man working through his hopes and fears
to the widow walking through the vale of tears
He comes! The Lion of Judah.
We can hasten the day~
Let Your heartbeat quicken as I turn my whole heart and whole soul and all my strength to You.
But not of me, of Thee. Turn our hearts and our eyes, O Lord
That we may love each other in truth.

I feel it in my spirit, I feel it in my bones
I can hear that thunder in the distance
I can feel the broodings of His Spirit
The face of His Spirit broods over the face of the waters even now.
Let the trumpet blow.

These are the days of Elijah
There is the lake of Moshe (Moses)
And though these are the days of great trial: Peace beckons
The calm, mirror-like, lake
Our gift
Behold. He comes.

~Hope that helps and always good to see you, Barotix

~Grandpa

[AnemuS]

well i do believe in god,
but not in the way people are believing i guess...

i think he is everywhere, means its not neccessery to go to church to make him hear you, if i ever pray i do it in my way asking for something like a normal human being and not reading "AN EXAMPLE BOOKS" which are written for dummies a like(i guess)

anyways yes i definetely do -in some way, but im not too serious into it...

and also i watch channel national geographic -probably explains alot

[emperor3000]

Yes to religious


i myself is buddhist, i believe in reincarnation, and not the whole this guy made us and what not.

And i sort of believe in confucianism, since yeah, its hard to believe that a greater power created us while there are logical explanation of how WE, humans, came from.

Yeah, i pray, doesn't go to church(not required).

and im allowed to participate in other religious doings. Like Christmas for example


oh and yeah, as my current self, i might of been a totally different person, and that is my past life, and if i die, i might be born some time later as a new person, as tho same spirit different body and mind

[ChilliN]

belive in god but dont go to church

[Grandpa]

Yes to religious
i myself is buddhist, i believe in reincarnation, and not the whole this guy made us and what not.
...
oh and yeah, as my current self, i might of been a totally different person, and that is my past life, and if i die, i might be born some time later as a new person, as tho same spirit different body and mind

Greetings, emperor3000

I've recently listened again to one of my ol' favs. From the Herbie Hancock album, Possibilities. This one from Annie Lennox, entitled "Hush, hush, hush" Do you know it?

Click spoiler ↓ for lyrics

Spoiler!

(Artist: HERBIE HANCOCK Song: HUSH, HUSH, HUSH (FEAT. ANNIE LENNOX) Album: POSSIBILITIES (2005)

Long white arms
Losing their strength and form
Sixty year man on twenty year old skin
Skeleton, your eyes have lost their warmth
Look to your father for some support

[Chorus:]
Hush, hush, hush

Says your daddy's touch
Sleep sleep sleep
Says the hundredth sheep
Peace peace peace
May you go in peace

Cruel joke you waited so long to show
The one that you wanted wasn't a girl
All your life you kept it hidden inside
Now when you step
You stumble
You die

[Chorus]

Oh maybe next time
You'll be henry the 8th
Wake up tomorrow, alexander the great
Open your eyes in a new life again
Oh maybe next time
You'll be given a chance

Hush, hush, hush
Hush...

I really like a couple of her lyrics: "... Sixty year old man on twenty year old skin..."
-AND-

Oh maybe next time...
...You'll be Henry the 8th
Wake up tomorrow, Alexander the Great
Open your eyes in a new life again
Oh maybe next time
You'll be given a chance

So I was wondering if that was part of the appeal of being a Buddhist?

I'm especially interested in your comment, "as tho same spirit different body and mind" because that means different things to different ppl.

1. For instance, some say "soul" is originates "from the sea" because that was supposed to be the stopping place of the soul before birth or after death
2. other say "synonym for 'person, individual' (e.g. every living soul)
3. other say "the actuating cause of an individual life" (like 'spirit') ~~> the immaterial part
4. William James used the term in 1900, in a spiritual/romantic sense, but in ref. to inner music and we get our term "Soul Brother" in the same sense

Question: How does a 'soul' differ from 'spirit' to Buddhist, pls?

Thanks,

~Grandpa

[emperor3000]

Yes to religious
i myself is buddhist, i believe in reincarnation, and not the whole this guy made us and what not.
...
oh and yeah, as my current self, i might of been a totally different person, and that is my past life, and if i die, i might be born some time later as a new person, as tho same spirit different body and mind

Greetings, emperor3000

I've recently listened again to one of my ol' favs. From the Herbie Hancock album, Possibilities. This one from Annie Lennox, entitled "Hush, hush, hush" Do you know it?

Click spoiler ↓ for lyrics

Spoiler!

(Artist: HERBIE HANCOCK Song: HUSH, HUSH, HUSH (FEAT. ANNIE LENNOX) Album: POSSIBILITIES (2005)

Long white arms
Losing their strength and form
Sixty year man on twenty year old skin
Skeleton, your eyes have lost their warmth
Look to your father for some support

[Chorus:]
Hush, hush, hush

Says your daddy's touch
Sleep sleep sleep
Says the hundredth sheep
Peace peace peace
May you go in peace

Cruel joke you waited so long to show
The one that you wanted wasn't a girl
All your life you kept it hidden inside
Now when you step
You stumble
You die

[Chorus]

Oh maybe next time
You'll be henry the 8th
Wake up tomorrow, alexander the great
Open your eyes in a new life again
Oh maybe next time
You'll be given a chance

Hush, hush, hush
Hush...

I really like a couple of her lyrics: "... Sixty year old man on twenty year old skin..."
-AND-

Oh maybe next time...
...You'll be Henry the 8th
Wake up tomorrow, Alexander the Great
Open your eyes in a new life again
Oh maybe next time
You'll be given a chance

So I was wondering if that was part of the appeal of being a Buddhist?

I'm especially interested in your comment, "as tho same spirit different body and mind" because that means different things to different ppl.

1. For instance, some say "soul" is originates "from the sea" because that was supposed to be the stopping place of the soul before birth or after death
2. other say "synonym for 'person, individual' (e.g. every living soul)
3. other say "the actuating cause of an individual life" (like 'spirit') ~~> the immaterial part
4. William James used the term in 1900, in a spiritual/romantic sense, but in ref. to inner music and we get our term "Soul Brother" in the same sense

Question: How does a 'soul' differ from 'spirit' to Buddhist, pls?

Thanks,

~Grandpa

hmm... lets see whats the difference bewteen soul and spirit.


they are quite similar, since they are "imaginative" words that we humans name.

i believe some people use soul and some people use spirit.
So, in other words, they are quite similar.(correct me if im wrong)

[woutR]

I don't think there's a god or some 'thing' that created everything, but it's really hard for me to understand how this universe stuff all really works.

For instance: draw a box and say "this is the universe" what is outside the box?
Well when I die I hope there is some sort of heaven which explains this is all to me.