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What's better (I'm talking about the damage)? I know that in lower lvls 4wizards are much better, since the dance is just 14,18%. So WHEN is worth having 2bards?

I think we started using two bards in our parties around Nachals. Can't remember if we did at Pegs or not. Definitely didn't on the ice. Bards are also more useful after they hit 60 because they get their 2nd long range nuke, so they can contribute to the attack as well and not wait for their first nuke to cooldown.

And if you are talking strictly having a second bard (possibly their sub) as in me. I bard parties instead of wiz when we have 4 wizs(but I don't have any bard attacks) it is simply for hit march and dance and to help with mana cycling. I think from guards on up 2 bards is better but that is just me. 4 strong wizzies 2 tanks a bard and a cleric can do some mean damage too. I just don't know the formula where the hit march/dances added to the damage output equals the power of the 4th wiz.

Mmmmmmm, i'd say its about even, say you have Khaara LemonKiss aron_cz and one bard, all capped wizards full farmed (except aron i think), take away aron's damage and put a bard in there with an 80 dance which is about 34% so you are increasing Khaara's and LemonKiss's damage by both 34% respectively which should make up for aron's damage if not go over it

simple as this
4=400%
3=300%

300% with 2 bards with a dance of 34% will make it= 402

This is very useful, because not all th wizairds hit the same
imagine u have 2 wizz's with +7 staff in a pt, and one with a +3

you see what i mean.
anyways, if you judge all the situations, it's clearly better to have 2 bards in the higher lvls

3 wiz 1 bard and 1 bower . lol just kidding.

i have only been to a 3x parties, so i dont know much about high lvls. but i think 2 bards wwould be better, cause one can cast the absorption buff and the other can cast the dmg buff O.o

UnbeatableDevil wrote:3 wiz 1 bard and 1 bower . lol just kidding.

i have only been to a 3x parties, so i dont know much about high lvls. but i think 2 bards wwould be better, cause one can cast the absorption buff and the other can cast the dmg buff O.o

true
another good thing
is you never get to use potions, i swear
i used more potions in like, 3-4 days of hardcoring in greece, than in one month with my wizard lol

I'm not really sure if the OP is satifsifed with the answers, but whatever, I want to bring this up:

2 Wizards, 2 Bards, 1 Warlock

The pt zerk points alone boosts up the party but not at a continuous rate since you can't just zerk forever (though I like spamming it when we have a warlock). Besides this, we have the debuffs. Just as the bard question, can the debuffs offered by warlocks compensate, or even outweigh the damage from a third wizard?

Prophet Izaach wrote:I'm not really sure if the OP is satifsifed with the answers, but whatever, I want to bring this up:

2 Wizards, 2 Bards, 1 Warlock

The pt zerk points alone boosts up the party but not at a continuous rate since you can't just zerk forever (though I like spamming it when we have a warlock). Besides this, we have the debuffs. Just as the bard question, can the debuffs offered by warlocks compensate, or even outweigh the damage from a third wizard?

Well, it is assumed debuffs increase damage by 50% and decrease damage by 50%. 2 debuffs will have a 100% damage increase.

Following IceCrash's post:
So (34+100)*2 + 200 = 468.

In theory it should more than compensate but I'm not to sure.

The warlock theory is nice, and works well on party giants, but most other party mobs usually die too quickly to even get those debuffs effectively on there I'd think.

As for parties: 6 Chinese nukers and 2 bards is still one of my favorites. Full nuking power, no need for extra healing, and the bards can focus on buffing and getting their own damage spells in. I've done it once; it was a lot of fun.

Party Giant vs 3 wiz lasts around 2-4 minutes depending on zerk

Party Giant vs 2 wiz and a warlock lasts about 1 minute

It's a huge difference when a warlock joins the party gain constant zerk for everyone, 3-4 shot party mobs. My perfect exp party would be~
2 Warriors
1 Cleric
2 Bards
2 Wizards
1 Warlock


4 wizards = a tank that better learn to split buffs on wizards that can dodge or one int dieing every 5 minutes
So honestly 2 bards which normally can stay alive without warrior buffs is more efficient then 4 wizards

Barotix, is that warlock debuffs count both debuffs? (mag and combat)

personally, a party with a warlock is kinda borring, don't get zerk much and is just constant nuking from the wizards over and over. atleast with a warlock you can coordinate zerk party screenshots!! =]

Corrupt wrote:Party Giant vs 3 wiz lasts around 2-4 minutes depending on zerk

Party Giant vs 2 wiz and a warlock lasts about 1 minute

It's a huge difference when a warlock joins the party gain constant zerk for everyone, 3-4 shot party mobs. My perfect exp party would be~
2 Warriors
1 Cleric
2 Bards
2 Wizards
1 Warlock


4 wizards = a tank that better learn to split buffs on wizards that can dodge or one int dieing every 5 minutes
So honestly 2 bards which normally can stay alive without warrior buffs is more efficient then 4 wizards

Yes, I agreed with Corrupt. And the other reason why 2 bards is better in a party is so the tanks dont need to split their buffs. For example :-

2 tanks, 1 cleric, 4 wiz, 1 bard situation
Tanks can only buff 2 person. First tank will buff the cleric and the first wizz. Second tank will buff the 2nd and 3rd wizard. The 4th wizard will not have full buffs. And bard doesnt need buff. So, without warrior's buffs, the 4th wiz is in danger of being swarmed.

2 tanks, 1 cleric, 3 wiz, 2 bards situation
Tanks buff the cleric and all the wizards. Both of the bards doesnt need buffs. This is the same with 2 tanks, 1 cleric, 2 wiz, 2 bards and 1 warlock. This is the best setup for a Euro party.

Warlock debuffs together are almost the same damage increase the bards give with the dance, around 35-40% increase.
But there's an extra thing that comes with a warlock in the party - zerk.
The killing rate is 2x times faster with a warlock in the party, at least with the constant zerk they give to the whole party.
So many ppl, mostly wizards (Goob, Corrupt, Khaara, Lemon) told me that when I'm in their party the killing rate increases tremendously, and I don't even have to debuff the mobs, cause the party is zerking almost 24/7.