Bards in pt's question

[Ricooo]

Do you think having 3 bards in a 4x pt is useless? And please be more clear, don't just say yes or no, I'd like to hear reasons.

[REBD]

Do you think having 3 bards in a 4x pt is useless? And please be more clear, don't just say yes or no, I'd like to hear reasons.

Yes, less damage/lure/dots

[Tasdik]

Yes. You really only need 2 bards for tambour,hit march and DOM. Anything else is overkill.

[non ego man]

Having even 2 bards in a 4x party is pretty useless unless they're both battling. The damage increase from the dances doesn't offset the lack of a fourth damage dealer.

[Ricooo]

Well, I got banned from PT's for nothing... I got a sos harp, I battle bard, I do dances, I do hit march, I give speed, I heal MP.. Yet people think a 3rd bard in a PT is useless. You can never go wrong with DOH.

[Astra]

Why being a third bard instead being first OR second?

[shadowrunner]

a third bard in pt is useless. two are enough for DOM, hit march and efficient mp healing. third bard will only take place of a damage dealer and make the pt slower.

[Kirkaldi]

Yeah. 3 bards are useless. You only need 2, each one with a dance.

[/Pi]

If they can't find anyone else, it's not that bad.

[PureStr]

Only need 2 bards.
Dance is up, 3rd bard would take a damage dealer spot.

So yeah, its useless.

[WrathShielder]

I guess the question is what do you mean by useless.

Will you get more damage from a Wiz replacement? Yeah
Will you get better killing speed with a Lock replacement? Yeah

Will the party have more fun by kicking you? I won't start this up again since we have a nice long thread about kicking Chins from parties but I guess it comes back around to the whole party itself and whether the consensus is to have fun with each other, just grinding away and chatting and killing mobs with the group you have or the consensus is that we want the perfect party mix to get the fastest xp, the fastest killing, the largest lures we can handle, the most xp we can get, the best use of ticket time for those who have spent their own money on silk, etc.

I for one only buy silk for a grab pet since as a Wiz I can kill in a nice AOE and hate walking over to pick up everything.......so I don't have ticket time to consider.....I have never thought of this game as a race to a cap where I will most likely reroll or quit......I have always always liked the journey along the way and everything that means from the perfect Gens parties I have been in to the 3-man Sung parties to the full INT worm parties. Most of the party time that sticks out in my mind when I think back over the last two years(ok at least since Euro came out) were the not so perfect parties where we had a blast versus the mindless party grinding with everyone so focused on doing their perfect part in that perfect party that it truly for me was forgettable.

[Blindfire]

Having even 2 bards in a 4x party is pretty useless unless they're both battling. The damage increase from the dances doesn't offset the lack of a fourth damage dealer.

As a bard, I know that solo cycling is a pain in the ass and a half. Bards have one safe mp healing skill, keeping mp up is more stressful than fun.

[Cavalier]

Having even 2 bards in a 4x party is pretty useless unless they're both battling. The damage increase from the dances doesn't offset the lack of a fourth damage dealer.

As a bard, I know that solo cycling is a pain in the ass and a half. Bards have one safe mp healing skill, keeping mp up is more stressful than fun.

it is by far the easiest

[CeLL]

Having even 2 bards in a 4x party is pretty useless unless they're both battling. The damage increase from the dances doesn't offset the lack of a fourth damage dealer.

As a bard, I know that solo cycling is a pain in the ass and a half. Bards have one safe mp healing skill, keeping mp up is more stressful than fun.

Keeping mp up isnt stressfull or difficult. You just gotta know when to use what skill. Using cycle on the ints as they bash shit, and using wave on the str while they tank (theres no need to cycle the tanks in my experience.) When barding propperly, you can walk around everywhere and not be touched. The only time using wave becomes an issue, is when your tanks are slacking. 1 bard can get the job done, but 2 is nice.

[TheDrop]

having been a str bard, being the only bard in a full party is a pain in the ass. imo, but then again, maybe cause i was str barding

[Blindfire]

Having even 2 bards in a 4x party is pretty useless unless they're both battling. The damage increase from the dances doesn't offset the lack of a fourth damage dealer.

As a bard, I know that solo cycling is a pain in the ass and a half. Bards have one safe mp healing skill, keeping mp up is more stressful than fun.

Keeping mp up isnt stressfull or difficult. You just gotta know when to use what skill. Using cycle on the ints as they bash shit, and using wave on the str while they tank (theres no need to cycle the tanks in my experience.) When barding propperly, you can walk around everywhere and not be touched. The only time using wave becomes an issue, is when your tanks are slacking. 1 bard can get the job done, but 2 is nice.

7/10 times, mana wind will get you killed. I have watched it pull mobs off of a tank to coem hit me.

[Guardia]

Yup, if you like dying, use Mana Breeze. Fckin aggro. :p

[CeLL]

7/10 times, mana wind will get you killed. I have watched it pull mobs off of a tank to coem hit me.

then your tank(s) didnt know what they were doing and your wizzies werent fast enuff. they didnt make the skill NOT to be used. its all about party quality.

[Blindfire]

7/10 times, mana wind will get you killed. I have watched it pull mobs off of a tank to coem hit me.

then your tank(s) didnt know what they were doing and your wizzies werent fast enuff. they didnt make the skill NOT to be used. its all about party quality.

Yup, if you like dying, use Mana Breeze. Fckin aggro. :p

If you don't believe me, please refer to the fully farmed level 90 bard.

[CeLL]

fully farmed or not, my experiences differ from his. nothing you say can change that. i by no means claim to be an expert. he may have seen the aggro from wind and freaked out and decided not to use it anymore, i dont know. i just know that skills werent put in place NOT to be used. i just so happen to use it (in a good party.) its not believe or disbelief, its my experiences

[TOloseGT]

yea, mana wind really shouldn't be taking aggro off tanks.

[CeLL]

yea, mana wind really shouldn't be taking aggro off tanks.

Im unclear as to which side of this discussion your comment falls. Are you saying it shouldn’t be used because it takes the aggro, or there should be no issue using it as the tank(s) should hold the aggro?

[Blindfire]

Bards don't get buffed, without buffs their aggro is high, using mana wind as a bard has the same aggro as group healing for a cleric, we all know group healing draws a lot of aggro, regardless of whether or not the have buffs. Mana wind is the same, the only time I ever used it is when a high level was helping the party and I couldn't keep their mp up with cycle or when I was barding for a pvp party.

[WrathShielder]

Last 2 parties I have been in (on another character - my nub tank)...we were at Buns with a Bard/Warlock/Wiz/Cleric and 4 Tanks (one tank playing rogue lurer)....gosh that was freaking awesome fun and everyone had buffs..LOL

[TOloseGT]

yea, mana wind really shouldn't be taking aggro off tanks.

Im unclear as to which side of this discussion your comment falls. Are you saying it shouldn’t be used because it takes the aggro, or there should be no issue using it as the tank(s) should hold the aggro?

there should be no issue using it as the tank(s) should be able to hold the aggro. i've played a bard up to 6x, and unless there's a major change in aggro between yachas and chasers, u should be able to use it.

of course, you'll have to be smart when u use it. mana cycle will still be ur main skill, but there's nothing wrong wit mana winding after u see the main tank taunt. don't be stupidly close to the mobs either.

i guess it just comes down to how smart you play the bard and how competent the tank is.

[CeLL]

^^Exactly. I have been barding as much as possible recently, and mana wind killed me once. Only cause I was testing the waters with it. It seems using it repeatedly, causes exponential aggro growth. I used it like 5 times in a row, and the mobs just flocked to me with intensity. The only problem I have found is in high spawn areas, where something may spawn right behind me, if I use wind my accident, then I may have an issue.

[Guardia]

CeLL, i never said DONT use it. I've pt more as a bard than most of you guys here. It counts as something. I've experienced, tested each skills. I know the outcome and how it work. I never said dont use it. Look again at my post, it's a joke. Calm down. ":p" emoticon should do the trick but some still didnt get it.

Mana breeze is aggro as hell, just use it only when u need it. Mana cycle should be able to handle all pt member's mp. U dont need to spam that skill. Use it when it's safe to do so because YES, it will take aggro off the tanker. And just be smart when u use it. Dont just stand there waiting to get swarmed by mobs.

I used to be the only bard in the pt until gens because we dont have enough bards back then. It was a bit stressful since mobs came non stop. That's just the way we pt before. That's why we capped in just 2-3 months. Nowadays, there's always 2 bards in the pt. So, no bard should complaint.

As for the 3rd bard in the pt, it is not recommended at all unless there are no one in line who can take the spot. Take it as it's better than nothing. If there's a certain build needed at that time, the 3rd bard should know it's time to get in line.

[CeLL]

CeLL, i never said DONT use it. I've pt more as a bard than most of you guys here. It counts as something. I've experienced, tested each skills. I know the outcome and how it work. I never said dont use it. Look again at my post, it's a joke. Calm down. ":p" emoticon should do the trick but some still didnt get it.

Mana breeze is aggro as hell, just use it only when u need it. Mana cycle should be able to handle all pt member's mp. U dont need to spam that skill. Use it when it's safe to do so because YES, it will take aggro off the tanker. And just be smart when u use it. Dont just stand there waiting to get swarmed by mobs.

I used to be the only bard in the pt until gens because we dont have enough bards back then. It was a bit stressful since mobs came non stop. That's just the way we pt before. That's why we capped in just 2-3 months. Nowadays, there's always 2 bards in the pt. So, no bard should complaint.

As for the 3rd bard in the pt, it is not recommended at all unless there are no one in line who can take the spot. Take it as it's better than nothing. If there's a certain build needed at that time, the 3rd bard should know it's time to get in line.

wow calm down. you respond like i was attacking you and what you said. blind fire was the target of any amount of aggresion within my posts, since he/she was the one being quite insistant upon the total abstinence from mana wind. and was using your "joke" post to back up his/her beliefs. you should aim your responses to him. he brought you into this homie.

im glad to have found a few people with passion for barding

[Karras]

Get a sub tree... Bard with Wiz/Lock/Cleric... Its ur choice. Should b good enough to secure a spot in pt.
If u are a pt person, Get the pt skills for ur build. Sp shouldn't b a problem at all. 2 Gap would do the trick.
For eg, Bard sub Wiz
All you really need is
Bard: Tambour, some Dances, noice, MM, some passive and selection of mana recovery skill.
Wiz: Passives, buff & Earth tree.

Again, ofc ur char would end being a pt player.