Bower in parties?

[Tasdik]

I'm wondering how do ya'll feel about Chinese bowers in euro parties?

[Argonaut]

Party leaders decision.

[VeXeZ]

GREAT for luring, 1 hit each one and put a nice mob onto the euro tank, works well

[Karras]

Chinese in Euro works.
Just need a Bard to put more agro on the chinese.

[Shadow]

a good bow lurer.

[PureStr]

Party leaders decision.

No its not.
Its an agreement of all party members.

I dont mind having a chinese in the pt as long as he is aware that he'll gtfo when theres an euro in line.

[Zero_Doom]

I agree with Pure. Chinese kill exp in 8/8 parties, and I personally will deny any legit Chinese from a Euro party. Better to grind short handed then kill the exp with them.

[WrathShielder]

That is why I solo now or party with a select few. Too many people caught up in a race to the cap (to then quit no less) or so wrapped up in xp/sp and/or ticket time that everything else suffers; there used to be a time when partying with online friends was what was fun in this game, not the perfect party mix, denying chin players, or kicking for whatever reason, witch-hunting, blacklisting, bot obsession, etc. As bad as JM can be, as bad as I hate botters and cheaters, there are times when I look at this "legit" community and think to myself what happened?

[Axie]

LOL at high lvl parties the only chinese bowman i know is Zerg and i think he's accepted in the parties. Me i do not party cause too many people will start complaining. The only chinese i know of that people didnt complain about being in the party is nigi, but hes special so he doesnt count >.<
So as far as i know chinese partying is bad idea too much conflicts and drama.

[PR0METHEUS]

Party leaders decision.

No its not.
Its an agreement of all party members.

I dont mind having a chinese in the pt as long as he is aware that he'll gtfo when theres an euro in line.

Sorry, but I think it's kind of sad and selfish to have this kind of attitude towards parties. I find it funny that people will sit in town for 2, 3, 5 hours waiting for a perfect party... or kick an "imperfect" player (like a chinese bower) out if a "more perfect" player gets in line.

Is the in-line euro really going to make the party THAT much better?

I agree with Pure. Chinese kill exp in 8/8 parties, and I personally will deny any legit Chinese from a Euro party. Better to grind short handed then kill the exp with them.

People are just so greedy. How does the party experience rate compare with an 8/8 (7 euro 1 chinese) versus a 7/8 (7 euro) party? I would think that if the 7/8 euro party is getting X exp per kill, adding a chinese would give a little more exp. Perhaps adding another euro instead of chinese would give MORE of an exp boost, but is it really that big of a deal?

I guess chinese really have it hard in this game then.

Then there are those of us who stick to solo grinding (even though I'm sure my luring capability as an xbower would be helpful in a party...) and then people wonder why I level so slow.

[Argonaut]

Party leaders decision.

No its not.
Its an agreement of all party members.

I dont mind having a chinese in the pt as long as he is aware that he'll gtfo when theres an euro in line.

Sorry, but I think it's kind of sad and selfish to have this kind of attitude towards parties. I find it funny that people will sit in town for 2, 3, 5 hours waiting for a perfect party... or kick an "imperfect" player (like a chinese bower) out if a "more perfect" player gets in line.

Is the in-line euro really going to make the party THAT much better?

Its not whether it makes the party better or not, the philosophy is that the person waiting for the party CANT solo, which a euro isn't made to do, while the chinese can. Essentially, he is wasting the spot not only for that one person who is forced to sit out, but for the other 7 people who rely on that euros buffs/support.

Scenario A:
Chinese in the party - 400% exp
Rest of the party - 95% exp
Guy sitting out - 0% exp or 25% exp (if he can solo)

Scenario B:
Chinese in the party - 100% exp
Rest of the party - 100% exp
Guy sitting out - 100% exp

The percent is based off how much they would get doing their normal playing function (chinese soloing, euro partying, ect.)

[SidiousX]

That is why I solo now or party with a select few. Too many people caught up in a race to the cap (to then quit no less) or so wrapped up in xp/sp and/or ticket time that everything else suffers; there used to be a time when partying with online friends was what was fun in this game, not the perfect party mix, denying chin players, or kicking for whatever reason, witch-hunting, blacklisting, bot obsession, etc. As bad as JM can be, as bad as I hate botters and cheaters, there are times when I look at this "legit" community and think to myself what happened?

+111111

LOL at high lvl parties the only chinese bowman i know is Zerg and i think he's accepted in the parties. Me i do not party cause too many people will start complaining. The only chinese i know of that people didnt complain about being in the party is nigi, but hes special so he doesnt count >.<
So as far as i know chinese partying is bad idea too much conflicts and drama.

People complained often enuf when i wanted to join the party, coz people are too fcking greedy in this game.
Why prefer some exp over having a nice and fun time partying?
Its something i really dun understand...
u play a game to have FUN, and not just 'OMG OMG OGM EXP EXP EXP PLÝS 10K EXP PlÝS FACK SISTA TACH PUASSY'

Something i never understood and never will.

[ryderstrong]

i had same question only with a s/s nuker instead of bower

[PR0METHEUS]

Its not whether it makes the party better or not, the philosophy is that the person waiting for the party CANT solo, which a euro isn't made to do, while the chinese can. Essentially, he is wasting the spot not only for that one person who is forced to sit out, but for the other 7 people who rely on that euros buffs/support.

Scenario A:
Chinese in the party - 400% exp
Rest of the party - 95% exp
Guy sitting out - 0% exp or 25% exp (if he can solo)

Scenario B:
Chinese in the party - 100% exp
Rest of the party - 100% exp
Guy sitting out - 100% exp

The percent is based off how much they would get doing their normal playing function (chinese soloing, euro partying, ect.)

I see what you're saying, but there should be other parties that the "euro sitting out" could join. Yes, euros (aside from rogues) are designed to party together, but they don't HAVE to be in a perfect 8/8 party. If there's no available 7/8 party for that 'sitting out' euro to join, couldn't he just join a 4/8 or 5/8 party? It's better than nothing.

Yes, chinese can solo, but they'll get better exp in an 8/8 party, just like the euro would get better exp in the 8/8 party. Should the chinese suffer just so that euro can have the 'perfect party'? As opposed to that euro joining a slightly lesser party, but still better than solo?

[PureStr]

Yes, chinese can solo, but they'll get better exp in an 8/8 party, just like the euro would get better exp in the 8/8 party. Should the chinese suffer just so that euro can have the 'perfect party'? As opposed to that euro joining a slightly lesser party, but still better than solo?

It has nothing to do with suffer or blablabla sentionalism.

Euro in line = chinese gtfo of party.
Kari and Mai (best chineses i ever PTed with) somehow both understood that...
[/discussion]

[SidiousX]

Yes, chinese can solo, but they'll get better exp in an 8/8 party, just like the euro would get better exp in the 8/8 party. Should the chinese suffer just so that euro can have the 'perfect party'? As opposed to that euro joining a slightly lesser party, but still better than solo?

It has nothing to do with suffer or blablabla sentionalism.

Euro in line = chinese gtfo of party.
Kari and Mai (best chineses i ever PTed with) somehow both understood that...
[/discussion]

U cant just end a discussion. lol.

Everyone will hav different thoughts of it, go play a chinese first, party it for a while, than go solo it. You'll understand why the other chinese wanna join a party.

[PR0METHEUS]

Yes, chinese can solo, but they'll get better exp in an 8/8 party, just like the euro would get better exp in the 8/8 party. Should the chinese suffer just so that euro can have the 'perfect party'? As opposed to that euro joining a slightly lesser party, but still better than solo?

It has nothing to do with suffer or blablabla sentionalism.

Euro in line = chinese gtfo of party.
Kari and Mai (best chineses i ever PTed with) somehow both understood that...
[/discussion]

End of discussion? hmmmm...

I don't mean to say you're "making" the chinese suffer. If the party is working fine the way it is, why tell a certain person to "GTFO" just because someone a little better than them wants in? Then when another cleric that has a SUN+9 rod comes, are you going to kick out your cleric that only has a SUN+3?

It just seems silly to me to wait in line for a party. There are probably 10, 20, 50 people on the server at any given time 'waiting in line' for a party. They should all hook up together to form new parties.

Meh, maybe I'm better off just soloing. Life is so much simpler that way, albeit slower.

[tedtwilliger]

That is why I solo now or party with a select few. Too many people caught up in a race to the cap (to then quit no less) or so wrapped up in xp/sp and/or ticket time that everything else suffers; there used to be a time when partying with online friends was what was fun in this game, not the perfect party mix, denying chin players, or kicking for whatever reason, witch-hunting, blacklisting, bot obsession, etc. As bad as JM can be, as bad as I hate botters and cheaters, there are times when I look at this "legit" community and think to myself what happened?

I don't say this often, but a big +1 to this post.

As of now.. im hardly playing SRO. Although im still a joint leader in mine and deadpeople's guild, theres just too much bullshit in this game. When im a party leader i let anyone join, as long as they no lower than 11 level below the mob. If a chinese wants to join then i let them. If we have 3 or 4 tanks then so be it, i will not kick someone just to make room for someone better. They joined my party and thus i will let them play. They get to have fun and they are in the spot they deserve. As long as they do their job and don't go afk endlessly, or only attack some of the time than they are greatly welcomed. Hell I've had countless parties consisting of myself ( a warlock ), a cleric, a bard and 5 wizards. Did i kick 2 wizards to make room for tanks? No. Sure it would of been more "efficient" but i had a great time with that party, it's the most fun party i have ever been in. You can have all the rules, regulations, comities and partying laws you want. But when it cuts away the fun in the game.. do you ever ask yourself why?

[PureStr]

Then when another cleric that has a SUN+9 rod comes, are you going to kick out your cleric that only has a SUN+3?

If you compare chinese and euro just by their dmg output, then i get why you dont understand why a chinese needs to leave for a euro when ones in line.

[SidiousX]

Then when another cleric that has a SUN+9 rod comes, are you going to kick out your cleric that only has a SUN+3?

If you compare chinese and euro just by their dmg output, then i get why you dont understand why a chinese needs to leave for a euro when ones in line.

Just read what everyone is saying, most people care about HAVING FUN IN A PARTY, not bout gaining the most exp the fastest way... if you read it comprehendable u wud understand they were talking bout having fun...

[non ego man]

GREAT for luring, 1 hit each one and put a nice mob onto the euro tank, works well

The most insanely quick leveling I did was at penons with a bow running circles around a 60+ warrior using his 3-mob and 5-mob taunts to grab the mobs after the bow "ping'ed" them to aggro. It was kind of a powerparty because the warrior was 60+ but all he was doing was spamming his two taunts (and really, can we ask much more of Sanc?). Not a single player got touched except the warrior and the wizards were just raking in mass xp. Since then, I've never even come close to the XP rate we had in this party.

[Nellek]

This is funny, I'm a pure int nuker s/s and i told a party i can tank for them at sungs and one person said no we need a tank....not a Chinese that can take hits...and I'm just like isn't that what a tank is?

[non ego man]

This is funny, I'm a pure int nuker s/s and i told a party i can tank for them at sungs and one person said no we need a tank....not a Chinese that can take hits...and I'm just like isn't that what a tank is?

Except that a euro warrior can hold aggro better than a chinese nuker. Tanking is not just about staying alive, it's also about keeping the mobs glued to you.

[Barotix]

Rogues > All. Uber versatile. I win.

[Zero_Doom]

I don't really wanna be the bad guy in this thread, but I bet I am about to make myself look like the bad guy, lol.

Prometheus, you are awesome, in all forms of the word. The conversations we have had in game have always been pleasant and enjoyable. You are obviously more into the trip then the destination, and I respect that, to each their own. You don't pay for gold tickets and don't level very fast, and from what I understand you solo for most of your grinding. You say I am greedy because I prefer to have the absolute maximum exp per kill that I can possibly get, yet you are looking at it from your own point of view. If you spent money on a gold ticket, meant to level quickly, you wouldn't want to be weighed down with a character that chews up exp and gives nothing back.

In my opinion, a Chinese character will never compare to a Euro character when placed in the same positions in a party. If say a blader takes the place of a Warrior, he can't buff the int based characters in the party that need those buffs to survive, nor can he hold agro over the ints. Obviously a blader would not be allowed in place of a tank, not even if the party was 7/8 and waiting for a tank. A Chinese nuker does about the same damage to mobs as a Warlock does, but it doesn't have the ability to increase zerk and can't debuff, which adds to the overall damage of a Wizard. That same Chinese nuker can never replace a Wizard in a party, the damage just doesn't even compare. Glaiver's are in the same boat as a 2h Warrior, don't have 1h, and unlikely to get a party. And finally, the case that brought this all up, a Chinese archer in a party. Sure, archer's have distance, but a rogue can easily out-range them, and certainly have more damage, not to mention the fact that they can lure much more efficiently, yet they still don't get a spot in parties. Why would an archer who drags exp down make it into that party?

When it comes down to it, party play was an obvious after thought for Chinese characters. Sure, they have it harder then a Euro, but in the end, they can solo at any point in the game that they feel the need. When I don't get buffed appropriately and fight mobs my level or higher, I die. No chance of soloing for most Euro's. So I personally think that it is selfish of the greedy Chinese characters, who want more exp from the party grind, to take the spot of a Euro in any party. Who is really the greedy one in that case? The one who can efficiently solo to cap, or the one who absolutely needs into the party to grind? And then, for those who pay for tickets and wish to cap out, how is it greedy for them to want to get every penny they can out of their ticket? You wouldn't buy a product for $50 irl and think it is alright to get a third or more taken away from said product, would you?

[TheDrop]

This is funny, I'm a pure int nuker s/s and i told a party i can tank for them at sungs and one person said no we need a tank....not a Chinese that can take hits...and I'm just like isn't that what a tank is?

tbh chinese ints shouldn't really be tanking.. lol. they probably didnt have 2 tanks, and pts need the 2 tanks for aggroe holding and buffs. pure int nukers are pretty good dmg dealers though, and can tank some.

I have auto-shared pt with my bowman at closiers, ongs, bungs and mujigis, but tbh, after bungs, i felt pretty useless. my dmg was low, and i couldn't tank 4-5 mobs 8 lvls higher than me properly (maybe it was my gear, but eh). Aggro holding is kinda hard too, and when i bring the lure and the tanks arent paying attention, all the mobs go to the cleric cause of the party group heals >.>. I never pted on my nuker, nor have i played a rogue in a party. I dont care about exp, i always allowed chinese players into my parties when i was playing lock =)

[Tasdik]

So I personally think that it is selfish of the greedy Chinese characters, who want more exp from the party grind, to take the spot of a Euro in any party. Who is really the greedy one in that case? The one who can efficiently solo to cap, or the one who absolutely needs into the party to grind? And then, for those who pay for tickets and wish to cap out, how is it greedy for them to want to get every penny they can out of their ticket?
You wouldn't buy a product for $50 irl and think it is alright to get a third or more taken away from said product, would you?

1st. A Chinese char in a party will not take away "a third or more" from your exp.

2'd. What's greedy about wanting to party and lvl up faster?

And define efficiently. It takes wayyyy longer for a chinese char to cap then a euro char when soloing. How is that efficient?

[non ego man]

I don't really wanna be the bad guy in this thread

Not at all. Everything you say is true. It's just a different approach. As a bow lure, it was important to me to make sure that, despite the XP hit for having me in the party, the total XP for the euros in an hour of grinding was higher than if they had a warrior or wiz in the party in my place. Depending on the party, this can be accomplished. But it isn't common.

Aggro holding is kinda hard too, and when i bring the lure and the tanks arent paying attention, all the mobs go to the cleric cause of the party group heals

If the tanks aren't paying attention, it doesn't matter what's going on. PT fail. When I was bowing in a party, I didn't want to hold aggro, I just wanted to ping the mob to bring him within the tank's taunt range and the mob would run to the tank. This only really works when the tank has both taunts (at 60+) because, like you saw, with the 3-mob taunt or not paying attention, there are way too many and the mobs go to the ints.

[Firetruck]

So I personally think that it is selfish of the greedy Chinese characters, who want more exp from the party grind, to take the spot of a Euro in any party. Who is really the greedy one in that case? The one who can efficiently solo to cap, or the one who absolutely needs into the party to grind? And then, for those who pay for tickets and wish to cap out, how is it greedy for them to want to get every penny they can out of their ticket?
You wouldn't buy a product for $50 irl and think it is alright to get a third or more taken away from said product, would you?

1st. A Chinese char in a party will not take away "a third or more" from your exp.

2'd. What's greedy about wanting to party and lvl up faster?

And define efficiently. It takes wayyyy longer for a chinese char to cap then a euro char when soloing. How is that efficient?

Efficiently means:
a. Acting or producing effectively with a minimum of waste, expense, or unnecessary effort.
b. Exhibiting a high ratio of output to input.

[Cavalier]

GREAT for luring, 1 hit each one and put a nice mob onto the euro tank, works well

The most insanely quick leveling I did was at penons with a bow running circles around a 60+ warrior using his 3-mob and 5-mob taunts to grab the mobs after the bow "ping'ed" them to aggro. It was kind of a powerparty because the warrior was 60+ but all he was doing was spamming his two taunts (and really, can we ask much more of Sanc?). Not a single player got touched except the warrior and the wizards were just raking in mass xp. Since then, I've never even come close to the XP rate we had in this party.

you sir need to go to chasers and see what real XP is