Bower in parties?

[non ego man]

you sir need to go to chasers...

If I had a nickel...



*sigh*

[tedtwilliger]

No chance of soloing for most Euro's.

Disagree

Warlock: Vampire touch, RD with sub cleric or noise with sub bard. Solo's fastly and doesn't die.
Warrior: 2h, RD with cleric sub, high damage output ( same damage as a glavier ) with skins and high defense. Can handle mobs just fine.
Wizard: With noise most mobs aren't a problem, 1 hit. Save zerk and high level earth barrier to take on giants. Combine with fear and kb. Sub cleric grants RD and bless to tackle giants, no problems there. Go to green mobs if needed.
Bard: Noise and tambours for little damage, quick hitting nukes. bind if needed. Cleric sub grants bless and RD for giants.
Cleric: Heals, buffs, wont die. Higher damage than most str based chinese characters.
Rouge: KB, KD, range, bleed, stun, high damage that can be switched into survivability. Great soloer.

People say euros cant solo but in all honestly they really can. It takes a little practice at times but it really isn't hard.

[Shadow]

I've never seen any "official" info about chinese negatively affecting others' xp in a party.. I've never heard of any research done about it. I hear people say chinese fck up others' xp, but I've never seen anyone explain or prove it. Still, people get a lot of plevel from chinese.

[VeXeZ]

the GAME should be about FUN.

have u ever played an RPG game? if you have, ud know rushing to the end is stupid. u gotta take ur time, try everything, explore and take detours or else the game becomes boring.

if u NEED to be level-fucking-ninety to have FUN in this GAME, well WTF are you doing here?

this ISNT war. you DONT NEED the biggest gun to have fun or flashiest skills to enjoy urself!

i know some ppl PAY to PLAY this GAME, but if they cant tolerate a fellow player, they should grow up and REMOVE THEMSELVES from the conflict. simple, problem solved.

YOU SIT IN TOWN AND COMPLAIN OF NO PARTIES WHILE ON A GOLD TICKET, THEN WHEN ONE COMES COMPLAIN COZ U GET SLIGHTLY LESS XP. if u want to make the MOST of the bloody ticket, BE A CHINESE and grind 24/7!

a chinese bower CAN lure extremely well. if u have exer seen Grumps or Meeew luring Penons ud see that.

players HAVE to accept that there ARE CHINESE AND EUROS in this game and they CAN work TOGETHER. like euros SUPPORT eachother in parties, people NEED to learn how to play WITH chinese, NOT segregate them. i have been denied a PT coz i am chinese. it is so incredibly lame. look me up on rev6 and say i cant go toe-to-toe with a wizard

1st come, 1st served. NO player should be booted from a party to be replaced by another. Nor should some1 who can DO THE JOB be refused.

PLAY TOGETHER FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. LEARN TO ACCEPT THE OTHER HALF.

[PR0METHEUS]

Then when another cleric that has a SUN+9 rod comes, are you going to kick out your cleric that only has a SUN+3?

If you compare chinese and euro just by their dmg output, then i get why you dont understand why a chinese needs to leave for a euro when ones in line.

I understand just fine. I just think it's stupid. I'd rather have FUN grinding either solo or in a party, rather than worry about having the right kinds of people in my party. If my party is full, but needs a tank, I'm not going to go looking for one and then kick the 5th wizard just so I can have a more efficient party.

I'll just get the group of friends together, and go grind.

Kicking a party member just to let a "better" one in, whether dmg output or one that will sync with your party a little better, give better buffs, whatever... is just stupid.

[Karras]

I've never seen any "official" info about chinese negatively affecting others' xp in a party.. I've never heard of any research done about it. I hear people say chinese fck up others' xp, but I've never seen anyone explain or prove it. Still, people get a lot of plevel from chinese.

Actually it has been proven that chinese reduce exp gain to euros.
Only thing is, no one has the equation of exactly how much is the reduction.

[Ricooo]

I'm all up for bower's in PT'S. XuJing is 1 of the best lurers we've ever had, and even tho I can't compare him to Javalin (does MAD lures), I still let any chinese in my pt. I don't think we should limit them just because of their race.. Also, bowers has some advantages over rogues, such as they can heal themselves. Think about it, a luring bowman doesn't need any MC or HC or anything, which can be given to other PT members. Tanks would be able to protect the ints better because the cleric will be near them rather than near the bowman. There are advantages and disadvantages in every build, and we shouldn't exclude any of them.

[thechampion80]

No chance of soloing for most Euro's.

Disagree

Warlock: Vampire touch, RD with sub cleric or noise with sub bard. Solo's fastly and doesn't die.
Warrior: 2h, RD with cleric sub, high damage output ( same damage as a glavier ) with skins and high defense. Can handle mobs just fine.
Wizard: With noise most mobs aren't a problem, 1 hit. Save zerk and high level earth barrier to take on giants. Combine with fear and kb. Sub cleric grants RD and bless to tackle giants, no problems there. Go to green mobs if needed.
Bard: Noise and tambours for little damage, quick hitting nukes. bind if needed. Cleric sub grants bless and RD for giants.
Cleric: Heals, buffs, wont die. Higher damage than most str based chinese characters.
Rouge: KB, KD, range, bleed, stun, high damage that can be switched into survivability. Great soloer.

People say euros cant solo but in all honestly they really can. It takes a little practice at times but it really isn't hard.

finally someone says it...
and besides most people just sit in town with 7/8 and complain when they could just invite a chinese player and actually get some xp

[PR0METHEUS]

[quote="thechampion80]finally someone says it...
and besides most people just sit in town with 7/8 and complain when they could just invite a chinese player and actually get some xp[/quote]

Exactly. Let the chinese player come. Or if one isn't available, get your 7/8 party out there and start grinding. You can still look for that 8th member in union chat, or wherever, but don't waste hours sitting in town waiting for that 8th person to join.

[thechampion80]

i know right
some people just are always set into stone (mentally)

[Kirkaldi]

I feel that's phail.

[thechampion80]

who?

[JKMB]

Bow can lure, chinese CHARACTERS are not a real issue in parties, the only loss is a few buffs here and there and slightly lower dmg, in exchange you get characters that can tank better and have greater versatility, an archer should be like a rogue in a pt, but better, cuz he doesn't die and has a shit load more aoe skills then a rogue does.
That said, some of the lower lvl chinese characters dont know how to party play, how can they when they are being denied from pts all the time?

[Zero_Doom]

Bow can lure, chinese CHARACTERS are not a real issue in parties, the only loss is a few buffs here and there and slightly lower dmg, in exchange you get characters that can tank better and have greater versatility, an archer should be like a rogue in a pt, but better, cuz he doesn't die and has a shit load more aoe skills then a rogue does.
That said, some of the lower lvl chinese characters dont know how to party play, how can they when they are being denied from pts all the time?

You would think that all that you say is true, but it isn't. Chinese are denied from parties at all levels not just because of their damage output being so low, but also because they don't contribute to the party. Archers, being the centerpiece in this topic, may lure better then other builds, but they don't give buffs at all. Sure they have aoe, but if aoe is what should lure, then a wizard or warlock should always lure right? The fact is that Euro int's don't have the defensive capabilities that a chinese int has, and absolutely needs all those buffs that the party gives. With one piece missing, that int will die, and most importantly, the party can die.

People say euros cant solo but in all honestly they really can. It takes a little practice at times but it really isn't hard.

It may not be hard for those builds, but what of the ones not listed? Also, I noted something about efficiency didn't I? Ever tried to solo a cleric sub? Not very efficient because you don't have speed, unless of course you buy it, but at that rate, you are spending money out grinding. Not efficient.

1st. A Chinese char in a party will not take away "a third or more" from your exp.

2'd. What's greedy about wanting to party and lvl up faster?

And define efficiently. It takes wayyyy longer for a chinese char to cap then a euro char when soloing. How is that efficient?

It takes a long time for a Chinese to cap compared to a Euro because the Euro's can party efficiently. They compliment one another, and that's how the game was created. The Chinese don't compliment one another at all. You can put 8 Chinese in a party, and set them out to grind, and if you lose someone with healing skills, guess what? That party can continue to grind without him. There are no shared buffs between them, and no reason to not fill the spot with a nuker instead of someone else that has healing skills.

[thechampion80]

well guess what...
if u have a bower lure THEY DON'T NEED BUFFS
so it saves the buffs for the other guys that need them (like wizards)

[Shazam!]

Bow can lure...

You would think that all that you say is true, but it isn't. Chinese are denied from parties at all levels not just because of their damage output being so low, but also because they don't contribute to the party. Archers, being the centerpiece in this topic, may lure better then other builds, but they don't give buffs at all. Sure they have aoe, but if aoe is what should lure, then a wizard or warlock should always lure right? The fact is that Euro int's don't have the defensive capabilities that a chinese int has, and absolutely needs all those buffs that the party gives. With one piece missing, that int will die, and most importantly, the party can die.

Gosh, Remus, when will you shut the f*** up already? I do understand that you haven't seen my nukes for a while - but I still remember them outdamaging the ones of average Gens Wizzards. Don't you ever dare calling my damage output low again - I will ice wall you to death, nublet!

Don't contribute to party, let's see - I can hit about the same damage an average Wizz does and in case the tank sucks, I can jump in quickly to save the other ints, take enough aggro to relax the situation and tank just enough to let the rest of the party recover. Plus I debuff enemies with every hit, can Stun and KB. Yea, I totally see how a Chinese in party does not contribute to its success.

And yes, I do agree, a Chinese does not need all the buffs a Euro Int needs to survive. But if some of the other players wouldn't be that stubborn every now and then, the aprty as a whole could simply adopt and play with the Chinese not as a guest but as a full party member, integrate the Chinese into the party play and you will see - your Ints actually won't miss those buffs. Besides that, "those buffs" are rather undefined and depend on which Euro class is "replaced" anyway. Maybe think about which buffs you are missing in which situation and then think about ways a Chinese can compensate for the "loss" of those buffs.

But meh, that would mean you'd need to think and cannot look it up in some Euro party guide. Guess you'll be too busy grinding off all that ticket time to make up your mind in between.

By the way, for someone showing absolutely no willingness to give up only the least little bit of XP while partying you are levelling pretty slow.

[Zero_Doom]

Bow can lure...

You would think that all that you say is true, but it isn't. Chinese are denied from parties at all levels not just because of their damage output being so low, but also because they don't contribute to the party. Archers, being the centerpiece in this topic, may lure better then other builds, but they don't give buffs at all. Sure they have aoe, but if aoe is what should lure, then a wizard or warlock should always lure right? The fact is that Euro int's don't have the defensive capabilities that a chinese int has, and absolutely needs all those buffs that the party gives. With one piece missing, that int will die, and most importantly, the party can die.

Gosh, Remus, when will you shut the f*** up already? I do understand that you haven't seen my nukes for a while - but I still remember them outdamaging the ones of average Gens Wizzards. Don't you ever dare calling my damage output low again - I will ice wall you to death, nublet!

Don't contribute to party, let's see - I can hit about the same damage an average Wizz does and in case the tank sucks, I can jump in quickly to save the other ints, take enough aggro to relax the situation and tank just enough to let the rest of the party recover. Plus I debuff enemies with every hit, can Stun and KB. Yea, I totally see how a Chinese in party does not contribute to its success.

And yes, I do agree, a Chinese does not need all the buffs a Euro Int needs to survive. But if some of the other players wouldn't be that stubborn every now and then, the aprty as a whole could simply adopt and play with the Chinese not as a guest but as a full party member, integrate the Chinese into the party play and you will see - your Ints actually won't miss those buffs. Besides that, "those buffs" are rather undefined and depend on which Euro class is "replaced" anyway. Maybe think about which buffs you are missing in which situation and then think about ways a Chinese can compensate for the "loss" of those buffs.

But meh, that would mean you'd need to think and cannot look it up in some Euro party guide. Guess you'll be too busy grinding off all that ticket time to make up your mind in between.

By the way, for someone showing absolutely no willingness to give up only the least little bit of XP while partying you are levelling pretty slow.

Yea, good job comparing your damage with people that are lvl 64 when you are 72+? Gratz on that. Glad to know you can out damage someone 8 lvls lower then you. As far as leveling slow, yea... it sort of happens when you don't party. Some of us have to go out and make money, places called jobs. Can't just ask mom and dad for money. xP

There is no reason a chinese should take the spot of a euro in a party, ever.

[PR0METHEUS]

There is no reason a chinese should take the spot of a euro in a party, ever.

So euro parties would rather sit in town 7/8 full for 2 hours waiting for that last euro to join before going out to grind?

Sure, the party can go grind 7/8 to get some exp, but often times they don't. I see people complaining all the time about waiting for hours because they "need a <insert euro class here>". Go grind 7/8 while you wait, or invite a chinese. The chinese will be more helpful than an empty slot.

Why does every euro party have to be "perfect"? I'm sorry, but you people waste so much time trying to find the best party.

Ok, chinese aren't "built" for party play, with buffs to compliment each other, but 8-man auto share parties have been out since the beginning of the game, as long as I've been aware anyway. Chinese can do 8-man auto share, just not as "effectively" as euros.

Don't have a warrior to tank? Why can't a blader do it, even for a while? The blader can jump in for a bit, range-attack some mobs to tank them all so the wizards can recover and start nuking.

Meh... I don't party, so what do I know?

I see no reason to not let them in a party. But I guess some people are just greedy and/or can't adopt to change.

[icycatch]

You would think that all that you say is true, but it isn't. Chinese are denied from parties at all levels not just because of their damage output being so low, but also because they don't contribute to the party.The fact is that Euro int's don't have the defensive capabilities that a chinese int has, and absolutely needs all those buffs that the party gives. With one piece missing, that int will die, and most importantly, the party can die.

A chinese can tank better than euro.[When the tanker is busy]Tank a few mobs w/o buff n when u c a stupid wiz aggro-ing n luring mobs u go there to kd(bicheon)/stun(heskual)(pacheon), saving the wiz's life.

Euro formation[Generally]: Bard x1[Sometimes 2],Cleric x1, Tanker x2, Wiz(Just fill the rest)
Optional: Rogue/Lock/Chinese[Some pts still dun want to take Locks](beats me)

U gt 3 slots for wiz, cant a slot belong to a chinese?With a chinese u dun die that often(Certain of that}

And define efficiently. It takes wayyyy longer for a chinese char to cap then a euro char when soloing. How is that efficient?It takes a long time for a Chinese to cap compared to a Euro because the Euro's can party efficiently. They compliment one another, and that's how the game was created. The Chinese don't compliment one another at all. You can put 8 Chinese in a party, and set them out to grind, and if you lose someone with healing skills, guess what? That party can continue to grind without him. There are no shared buffs between them, and no reason to not fill the spot with a nuker instead of someone else that has healing skills.

Every chinese is a strong char.Ever since a chinese[Even a pure int chinese] complaining i die so often(I feel depressed)?But u do c some euro ints complaining[e.g pt's gt noob tank, thx to him/her, i die so many times.I need a gd tank to save me]



Dun discriminate against chinese.

[thechampion80]

There is no reason a chinese should take the spot of a euro in a party, ever.

people sit and whine at 7/8 all the time because they're DUMB
either just go or invite a chinese character
stupid racists

[TheDrop]

There is no reason a chinese should take the spot of a euro in a party, ever.

and what if i join a euro party with a chinese? will u sue me?

[Panu]

There is no reason a chinese should take the spot of a euro in a party, ever.

and what if i join a euro party with a chinese? will u sue me?

no but i will pk you. even if the pt is at 7/8, adding a chinese will lower the xp gain from that of the 7/8 with no chinese.

[Barotix]

Who cares about exp, as long as you have a cleric and at least one tank it's all good in the hood. Go have some fun.

[JKMB]

bla bla bla, damage output being so low, bla bla.

May I refer you to this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28625
You can see that a chinese maybe hits 40k less then a wizard, that said chinese does not die in 3 hits, even with warrior buffs, he does not need constant cleric heal spamming, he doesnt need to be mana cycled, in the case of a bow, sometimes the tank cannot move without displacing mobs onto the ints, so if he is not in taunt range of a mob attacking an int, there is not a lot they can do, an archer however could KB the mob off the int, which resets the mobs aggro onto the archer, he can then lure it to the tank. That is an example of how the said build could be useful in a pt, I also find it quite ironic Remus that you have a chinese as your avatar, an archer no less! Maybe you should update that seeing as you have an apparent dislike of chinese class's.

[Shadow]

What if it is the chinese nuker or bowman who is the pt leader, who got the party up and running and working? Will you join and "suffer terribly" from having a chinese in the party? Will you make another party and ask the people in the first one to leave the party "that is polluted by a chinese who refuses to gtfo"? Perhaps you'll pk the chinese for not belonging in your perfect party setup?

[PR0METHEUS]

There is no reason a chinese should take the spot of a euro in a party, ever.

and what if i join a euro party with a chinese? will u sue me?

no but i will pk you. even if the pt is at 7/8, adding a chinese will lower the xp gain from that of the 7/8 with no chinese.

1.) prove it.
2.) Even if it's true, it can't be that much of an exp drop. So your party will take 3 months and 2 weeks to get to lvl 90 instead of 3 months flat.

It all comes down to greed really. You people want the best euro party you can get, that will get you the most exp gains possible, which will in turn get you to cap in the quickest way possible. Then when you get there, you cry about the need for a cap raise.

people sit and whine at 7/8 all the time because they're DUMB
either just go or invite a chinese character
stupid racists

I still haven't seen of the anti-chinese people address this. WHY do you sit in town crying for 2 hours that you need <insert euro build here> for a full party, instead of using that time to at least get SOME grinding in. Even if that chinese lowers your total exp gain for the party, it's better exp than you get sitting in town crying.

[Zero_Doom]

@JKMB: Man, great thread you got there. People comparing overall damage on a lvl 1 mob. That's really awesome. In a party that grinds on mobs that are lvl 80+ which have physical and magic defense, unlike mangyangs which do not, damage differences are a bit greater. Also, my preference is euro, but I have nothing against chinese. I believe that they do not belong in a euro party, and you will never see any of my chinese characters in a euro party. The character in my avatar is my original character, and I will likely never change my pic. xP

@All you people saying we sit at 7/8 and whine: I personally have never done this, and will leave parties that do it. I do bitch that we don't have a second tank, but rarely does that stop party grinding for me. I started back before the confederation was formed, and I remember having duo and trio parties, or having parties with multiple warlocks, or one bard, and those parties were always the most fun. Lol, people have come to a point where they won't think outside the box, I will agree, but I have seen the exp loss due to adding a chinese character. Maybe I am greedy for wanting the most out of my gold ticket, but I paid for it, so why shouldn't I? I personally think it is greedy for a chinese to want into a euro party, I mean, they are only there for exp right? So how is it more greedy for me to want the most exp possible, and it be less greedy for a chinese to want the most exp possible? Who is being racist "thechampion80"?

Obviously the "greed" you people discuss is a double standard. If a euro wants exp, he is greedy. If a chinese wants exp, it is natural.

[PR0METHEUS]

@All you people saying we sit at 7/8 and whine: I personally have never done this, and will leave parties that do it. I do bitch that we don't have a second tank, but rarely does that stop party grinding for me. I started back before the confederation was formed, and I remember having duo and trio parties, or having parties with multiple warlocks, or one bard, and those parties were always the most fun. Lol, people have come to a point where they won't think outside the box, I will agree, but I have seen the exp loss due to adding a chinese character. Maybe I am greedy for wanting the most out of my gold ticket, but I paid for it, so why shouldn't I? I personally think it is greedy for a chinese to want into a euro party, I mean, they are only there for exp right? So how is it more greedy for me to want the most exp possible, and it be less greedy for a chinese to want the most exp possible? Who is being racist "thechampion80"?

Obviously the "greed" you people discuss is a double standard. If a euro wants exp, he is greedy. If a chinese wants exp, it is natural.

Well that's good you don't cry about not having a full party, but I've seen enough people do it.

Personally, I wouldn't be looking for an auto share party specifically for the experience gains. I'd join one more for the interaction with other players. It's more fun to grind with others, rather than all my myself trying to not get KSed by bots. Grind with the party, chat with the party, have fun. The exp gain is just an added bonus.

I guess I have a different outlook on things since I don't buy silk and therefore don't have ticket time that I need to make the most use out of. Do you also kick euros out who aren't playing as efficiently as you want them to play? Then you waste time trying to replace them with someone else; time that could be spent getting at least some exp from them.

[Zero_Doom]

I threaten the possibility of kicking them, and if there is someone in line, I will kick them for a more productive person. I am not the only one who does this though, most euro's opt for the most exp they can get, so it is a general practice. Fact is, even if they are not helping as much as someone else would, if there is not someone else to replace them, then as a 7/8 party we aren't getting that nifty bonus that the 8/8 party gets. So in the end, a non-useful European body is more productive then a 7/8 party or a 8/8 with a chinese. xP

[pr0klobster]

I guess I have a different outlook on things since I don't buy silk and therefore don't have ticket time that I need to make the most use out of. Do you also kick euros out who aren't playing as efficiently as you want them to play? Then you waste time trying to replace them with someone else; time that could be spent getting at least some exp from them.

Amen!

Even then...I have premium, but allot my time for parties, or soloing - bard/cleric's not that tough to solo. I enjoy having fun in Vent or Xfire talking with my buddies while we're fighting - and even though we just had another guild join our union with 8 more Euro's there are still plenty of Chinese that I party with, nukers, bowers, glaivers...and as multiple people have pointed out, for SOME of us, it's more about the fun than the efficiency.

And of course, since I'm on for a few hours each night, I'd rather have SOME party exp rather than solo. Solo goes so slow and waiting for a Euro-only party gets tough, especially on the older servers.