Force bowman!

Sauron · Post by **Sauron** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:52 pm

Well, I'm going to make a force bowman. I'm either gonna make him full str or hybrid str (probably 90% phys balance naked). Which one would you guys take? Other than that, i'm debating if I should go 90force,light,pacheon 30ice or if I should go 90fire,pacheon,force and 30 ice? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. P.S. This build is mainly for pvp. Thx in advance all.

edit: Anybody knows the cooldown time for the vital spot series? Thx again xD

jtryp · Post by **jtryp** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:40 pm

anything but pure str is terrible for a bow, you have no def like block or extra hp like glaiver and you rely on crits to kill. Each int you add lowers your hp and crit damage and you end up doing even lower damage... only people who say it's good are ones that did it to their own char and don't wanna admit they screwed up.

BabyBoy · Post by **BabyBoy** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:22 pm

Absolutely incorrect, bow hybrids rock...So far the best hybrids are 80:80 that ive seen, its basically same as the build that is in the 69:70 Heuksal guide except using a bow and modified skills/armor.

mike2007 · Post by **mike2007** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:17 pm

jtryp wrote:anything but pure str is terrible for a bow, you have no def like block or extra hp like glaiver and you rely on crits to kill. Each int you add lowers your hp and crit damage and you end up doing even lower damage... only people who say it's good are ones that did it to their own char and don't wanna admit they screwed up.

roflmao. hybrids r still pwning right now. for future caps ull prbly want to have gone pure though, due to the fact that chineese r slowly losing our 4th mastery and will slowly lose even our 3rd. in other words no light or ice (since u said u were gonna go force).
the best hybrids out there r extreme STR heavy hybrids, including the 90% phys naked, and 2:1's. the 2:1 though is starting to need really good gear to keep up.

doomas · Post by **doomas** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:41 pm

jtryp wrote:anything but pure str is terrible for a bow, you have no def like block or extra hp like glaiver and you rely on crits to kill. Each int you add lowers your hp and crit damage and you end up doing even lower damage... only people who say it's good are ones that did it to their own char and don't wanna admit they screwed up.

Pure bullshit.
"end up doing even lower damage"... Now that's seriously stupid statement. Every INT point you add instead of STR makes your dmg HIGHER (only for chinese ofc). Haven't you ever wondered why INTs do such a huge dmg?

AznFury · Post by **AznFury** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:55 pm

the only time a pure str will out dmg an int is if they get a crit

foudre · Post by **foudre** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:59 pm

crits the pure will always hit harder then the hybrid but the hybrid has a higher constistant damage, meaning they don't have to relie on crits to kill the enemies

edit:
unless your hybrid is like a really messed up ratio

Mishiru · Post by **Mishiru** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:59 pm

jtryp wrote:anything but pure str is terrible for a bow, you have no def like block or extra hp like glaiver and you rely on crits to kill. Each int you add lowers your hp and crit damage and you end up doing even lower damage... only people who say it's good are ones that did it to their own char and don't wanna admit they screwed up.

well i got a full str bow. and i rox...

who ever who agree with me let me now

btw i dont said that hyb bowers sux. i just said that str bowers Rox!!!!

Ruki i luv ya

)))))))

DeathBeforeDishonor · Post by **DeathBeforeDishonor** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:45 am

From what I've seen there's nothing wrong with hybrid bows.

PinayLoveNukes · Post by **PinayLoveNukes** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:41 am

Sauron wrote:Well, I'm going to make a force bowman. I'm either gonna make him full str or hybrid str (probably 90% phys balance naked). Which one would you guys take? Other than that, i'm debating if I should go 90force,light,pacheon 30ice or if I should go 90fire,pacheon,force and 30 ice? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. P.S. This build is mainly for pvp. Thx in advance all.

edit: Anybody knows the cooldown time for the vital spot series? Thx again xD

fire,pacheon, and force 30 ice... Pure pwnage. Dont need light its for int or magic users. Plus the max light speed is 100% at lvl 100. But just use drug speed typhoon. Maybe in very high caps in future they might be 150% speed drug..... You might not know so... Fire,pacheon,force and 30 ice pwns....

DeathBeforeDishonor · Post by **DeathBeforeDishonor** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:51 am

I think the cool down time is 20secs.

monkey. · Post by **monkey.** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:58 am

Hybrid force bowman.. well you might be ok for this cap with 90 pacheon 90 force 90 cold/light and 30 fire. You defense is rly low so going fire 90 would suck.. Also at higher lvl caps it would get harder and harder.. After roc unique update at 100 lvl cap it will be possible to put curse preventation blue on accessory

caseyd4 · Post by **caseyd4** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:57 am

Hyb force bowman is BETTER than pure str, Crits higher with Light than Fire. Bows should use light not fire as it decreases mob, enemies Parry allowing you to hit harder more often. I have made a few bowmen.

Here are my results.
Statistically my Hyb crits more often than a Pure str,
Light Crits Higher than Fire
I die more using force as I do not take advantage of my range in time
Ice imbue is very useful even at low levels.
I can tank Wizzs my own level.

tedtwilliger · Post by **tedtwilliger** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:22 am

The problem with going hybrid is you really need the light magic increase buff to make it effective. But with the cookie force build of 90 force, 90 pach, 90 fire and 30 cold you lack the light advantage and kinda ruin your build in my opinion.

mike2007 · Post by **mike2007** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:25 pm

tedtwilliger wrote:The problem with going hybrid is you really need the light magic increase buff to make it effective. But with the cookie force build of 90 force, 90 pach, 90 fire and 30 cold you lack the light advantage and kinda ruin your build in my opinion.

the difference between it on a 90% phys hybrid @82 was a grand total of 200 dmg, that was without force debuffs but I don't think it would make much of a difference.

jtryp · Post by **jtryp** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:18 pm

See all the terribles that come out when you say hybrid bow is bad?

example-

Here are my results.
Statistically my Hyb crits more often than a Pure str,

You really wanna listen to a guy that claims by adding int he crits more often? Because int adds crit rate right? Oh wait no it doesn't and you're just making up bullshit to convince yourself you char is good when you messed up it's stats and now you advising other people to ruin their char as well.

I said they end up doing less crit damage, not over all damage. Hybrid will do a lil bit more damage on non crits and do less damage on crits. Of all the chinese str chars a bow is probably the worst to go hybrid with... it crits more often then blader/glaiver and it has less defense... How can anyone justify that it's a smart thing to do? Range doesn't mean crap, 1 ghost walk and it's gone there's no kiting in this game, and range doesn't help vs other ranged either. The same people that think hybrid bow is good- do you think hybrid blader and hybrid glaiver is better then pure str?

A bower kills with crits not normal damage, for pvp spike damage is way better then lower but more steady dmg that's easily pottable. The anti-devil has 40% crit increase and 3rd strong bow has 10% crit increase, bows were made to crit and pure str has the most crit damage. Add on to the fact that you have no block and no hp passive like glaive/spear, adding int only further gimps you defense.

Only thing hybrid bow would be good at is pve, it's probably a lil better then pure str at that. For pvp tho you'd have to be an idiot to go anything but pure str for a bow.

xengthao95 · Post by **xengthao95** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:53 pm

caseyd4 wrote:Hyb force bowman is BETTER than pure str, Crits higher with Light than Fire. Bows should use light not fire as it decreases mob, enemies Parry allowing you to hit harder more often. I have made a few bowmen.

Here are my results.
Statistically my Hyb crits more often than a Pure str,
Light Crits Higher than Fire
I die more using force as I do not take advantage of my range in time
Ice imbue is very useful even at low levels.
I can tank Wizzs my own level.

i beleive that right

selenne · Post by **selenne** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:22 pm

jtryp wrote:See all the terribles that come out when you say hybrid bow is bad?

example-
Here are my results.
Statistically my Hyb crits more often than a Pure str,

You really wanna listen to a guy that claims by adding int he crits more often? Because int adds crit rate right? Oh wait no it doesn't and you're just making up bullshit to convince yourself you char is good when you messed up it's stats and now you advising other people to ruin their char as well.

Only thing hybrid bow would be good at is pve, it's probably a lil better then pure str at that. For pvp tho you'd have to be an idiot to go anything but pure str for a bow.

i lol'd.

mike2007 · Post by **mike2007** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:56 pm

jtryp wrote:See all the terribles that come out when you say hybrid bow is bad?

example-
Here are my results.
Statistically my Hyb crits more often than a Pure str,

You really wanna listen to a guy that claims by adding int he crits more often? Because int adds crit rate right? Oh wait no it doesn't and you're just making up bullshit...

right so far.

jtryp wrote:...to convince yourself you char is good when you messed up it's stats and now you advising other people to ruin their char as well.

not anymore.

jtryp wrote:I said they end up doing less crit damage, not over all damage. Hybrid will do a lil bit more damage on non crits and do less damage on crits. Of all the chinese str chars a bow is probably the worst to go hybrid with... it crits more often then blader/glaiver and it has less defense... How can anyone justify that it's a smart thing to do? Range doesn't mean crap, 1 ghost walk and it's gone there's no kiting in this game, and range doesn't help vs other ranged either. The same people that think hybrid bow is good- do you think hybrid blader and hybrid glaiver is better then pure str?

A bower kills with crits not normal damage, for pvp spike damage is way better then lower but more steady dmg that's easily pottable. The anti-devil has 40% crit increase and 3rd strong bow has 10% crit increase, bows were made to crit and pure str has the most crit damage.

right again.

jtryp wrote:Add on to the fact that you have no block and no hp passive like glaive/spear, adding int only further gimps you defense.

Only thing hybrid bow would be good at is pve, it's probably a lil better then pure str at that. For pvp tho you'd have to be an idiot to go anything but pure str for a bow.

and wrong again.

u r the worst kind of poster to share knowledge on this subject. u r the kind that is right some of the time. by saying things like int does not increase crit rate u make ppl think u know a lot about the game. then u go and say things like adding int gimps ur defenses without any kind of reasoning bhind it whatsoever. adding int gimps your physical def and hp thats true, but it adds to ur mag def and ur mp which could b very helpful when using a skill called snow shield. idk if uve heard of it or not but its a very good defensive skill that absorbs a % of ur dmg at the cost of mp, of which it needs to eat more than it would have hp.

and seeing how hes most likely going with force as his 3rd main mastery, and the fact that hes hybrid he might b going for ice as his sub mastery so he can use that skill.

hybrid bow is very good at pve, much better than pure str, but its also good at pvp if controlled by a person who knows the strengths and weaknesses of their character.

Blinxx · Post by **Blinxx** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:38 am

Sauron wrote:Well, I'm going to make a force bowman. I'm either gonna make him full str or hybrid str (probably 90% phys balance naked). Which one would you guys take? Other than that, i'm debating if I should go 90force,light,pacheon 30ice or if I should go 90fire,pacheon,force and 30 ice? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. P.S. This build is mainly for pvp. Thx in advance all.

edit: Anybody knows the cooldown time for the vital spot series? Thx again xD

70:70 for stats, 90 force/pach/light 30 ice sounds reasonable. Pump up a bit more for snow, then i think you got a winner there. Good luck on the build, it'll be tougher without much mag defense.

Off topic: Spartan, name a Hybrid bow in our server. None right? then i say you just let it go.

Mishiru · Post by **Mishiru** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:29 pm

i have a hyb friend and she is hyb in this way. she lv up and she daw that she always waste a lot of mp pots in that lvl soo she up int. when in the other lvl she die she up str and soo on.... now she is 90 fire pacheon ligth 30 cold full farmed and her crt are :shock:

idk her balances but hse is nice

full str bower are like lil tanker. just w8 to the cap 100 11 arrows wich do kb =D

Arix · Post by **Arix** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:04 pm

Hey guys I'm new to the game, would you explain my what does 70:70 with stats mean?:S

XesoS · Post by **XesoS** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:33 pm

Hybrids are ok but still Pure Str are Strongest in opinion . They Hit Crt almost every freaking Hit lol impossible to tank that

LockStar. · Post by **LockStar.** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:20 am

You cant go wrong with pure STR. Force is pretty fun too. Only downside of this build is the low defense/lack of mobility, defense can be compensated with snowshield and your MP passive.

tomiotar · Post by **tomiotar** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:36 pm

1) Safest is pure str 90 pacheon/force/ice 30 fire, you will have serius problem killing due to you will have lowest bow possible damage, but it will be really hard to kill. Just debuff, tank and hope that increment on damage due to your debuffs is enough to kill (worst possible bow build for pve). You will have have high defense and at same you will take profit of higher snow shield that MP force passive provide you, so is a really good tank and with some speed drugs really usefull on guild/fortress war doing tank/ress/debuff work. The main problem is that on pvp you can kill ints with crits but I beleive that it will be really hard that you can kill any str on 1 vs 1.

2) Next one is pure str/hyb str 90 pacheon/force/light 30 ice, you have higher damage than previuos but isn't that high because you are buffing the lower part of your damage. You loose lot of phys defense but you get phantom walk that is a life saviour for the bowmen and is much better on pve. On guild fortress war you will have more work ressing/debuffing than tanking, but you can get some hits and phantom walk away of the problems if you see you are sourranded by enemies. You have a better damage and speed so on pve it will work really fine and phantom walk is a tool that will save your life lots of time hunting uniques. For pvp use phantom and arrow combo each time that you see your HP is going down, if they insult you and say "stop running" because of phantom, just phantom again, launch strong bow and loled at him ^^ (people that say that phantom isn't usefull for a bowmen is because they basically have no single idea of how to use a bowmen).

3)Pure str/hyb str 90 pacheon/force/fire 30 ice or 20 ice/10 light or 30 light. On the str side this is the build that will hit stronger and most frequently used. As it was always said fire give magic defence and phys dmg increase that are the most usefull for the str builds. The problem with this build is that you don't have phantom to make distance nor high phys defence to tank properly. For last 30 masteries you can choose 30 ice for more defense and a bit higher snow shield (take profit of force pasive), 20 ice 10 light (minimum of snow shield+a bit of extra dmg), or 30 light for highest dmg on str force bow and total lost of phys defence buff and snow shield. Is good on pve due to his damage, but as same time it depends on speed drugs for unique hunting or places with a high spawn rate (usually those places are really crowed) to normal grinding. On guild/fortress war has similar weakness than option "2", is just a trade of phantom walk for ice inmunity (2 things that saves your life but you will have to choose if you want 90 force). On pvp debuff+strong bow crit buffed with fire provide best possible damage for chinesse chars. In my opinion is the best pvp force bow (I would choose 30 ice or 20 ice 10 light).

4)Int Hybrid with higher mag damage (maybe 80:80) 90 pacheon/force/light 30 ice. You have a really good dmg, is excelent on pve, but in pvp you are loosing lots of phys defense, HP, ice inmunity and you will be using a snow shield to lower level that the one you can use (you will need to kill really fast, because people will kill you really fast if they resist or use pill for impotent status). This char it will the fastest leveler and it will be the best unique hunter of the force bowmens, but at same it will be the faster on die on guild/fortress wars (anyone smart will aim first to the char with highest dmg, but lower defense and HP and who can even ress his friends). Is probably a really funny to play char, but you have to know that you will die really frequently on pvp or guild/fortress war if you have low HP and lvl30 defense skills.

muyo · Post by **muyo** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:44 am

tomiotar,how about your 1:1 bow? do it good in pve and pvp?(planning to switch from 70:70 to 1:1)

junfanjkd · Post by **junfanjkd** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:53 pm

i think its pointless to have a force bower...the reason is, bowers dont have defense..we are pretty much open for the kill..while u are healing, ressing, de buffing etc someone..that takes time...which means..your guard is down...u can possibly die. while debuffing your foe..u could have been just pounding him hard..dash out if he comes close and pound again until he dies...what ever way u chose to fight him.

to me the best build for force is a blader...they got the best defense.very hard to kill.while u are healing, ressing, debuffing etc..your protected..they come close to try to take you out..knock them down etc..the point is u aint open like a bowman. o yeah pure str only on this build too. u need hp hehe...they will be aiming hard at u first lol.

welp thats me input

CloudStrider · Post by **CloudStrider** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:09 pm

I don't really like force, some people try to make it good, 'tis bullshit.

selenne · Post by **selenne** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:29 pm

ppl always go for da easier builds. cant understand why ppl wanna believe so much in crits... shielded players or the ones with high parry take ur dream down.

mike2007 · Post by **mike2007** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:41 am

junfanjkd wrote:i think its pointless to have a force bower...the reason is, bowers dont have defense..we are pretty much open for the kill..while u are healing, ressing, de buffing etc someone..that takes time...which means..your guard is down...u can possibly die. while debuffing your foe..u could have been just pounding him hard..dash out if he comes close and pound again until he dies...what ever way u chose to fight him.

to me the best build for force is a blader...they got the best defense.very hard to kill.while u are healing, ressing, debuffing etc..your protected..they come close to try to take you out..knock them down etc..the point is u aint open like a bowman. o yeah pure str only on this build too. u need hp hehe...they will be aiming hard at u first lol.

welp thats me input

u dont heal or res til all ur imediate opponents r dead unless ur grinding, and even if you do u should at least make sure ur opponenets have impotent on them first that will increase ur tanking ability a lot. thats also y i reccomend ice 30 for any force build u can always put up snow to help u tank while debuffing. i agree that u could have easily been attacking but debuffing allows u to make up for that ammount of dmg very easily specially with a high crit bow/skill very quickly.
and going hybrid wont hurt as much as ppl think. in fact ud prbly get more dmg from hybrid fire/force bowman than a hybrid fire/light bowman, and u only have to saccrifice manueverability for increased tanking and dmg output.

CloudStrider wrote:I don't really like force, some people try to make it good, 'tis bullshit.

back it up or dont post. same goes for all ur other spam.

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