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Guys I wud like to knw wht differences do both the masteries have? N why only cleric is famous and not Chinese Force? Whts the diffrence? ..I m 52 lvl cleric n I like it a lot bt I wonder why no one has ever chose a force skil in their chiense characters? Why do all prefer to be nukers? Is Force completely usefless? But then hw cleric is useful then?

Lets discuss it today n find out…

chinese dont need healing really... 1 sec pot delay or something, europe got 15 sec, and only taking force for resurect is not needed..

not the mention if you take 8 chinese nukers in party you kill fast enough, if you take 8 wizard europe int some will die for sure.. they get pwnd by party mobs from same level,


Edit: 1 topic is enough.. pressing submit 3 times if it doesnt load doesnt really work

thanx for the reply man... n regarding posting the topic 3 times.. u shud understand that it might be some internet fault or some PC problem... Im nt too desperate to know abt this topic n for no reason I wud post it thrice

nywys thanx for ur reply.. no more questions


IM gona delete the same repeated posts..

Force have debuffs, Cleric dont ( except for Bind ). I think if people take Chinese force, it's for the debuffs.

Cleric, on the other hand, is all about buffs. Have not lots of nice buffs and healing. EU needs healing desperately, they've 15 sec pot delay. Bless spell is good in critical times. Think about pure cleric and pure force. Pure cleric are FAAARRRR more versatile.

And for Res, Cleric res is superior in any possible way ( less SP i suppose, can res people 20lv above, more number of res skills, etc ).

One more thing about Force is that they're all, or nothing. A level 70 Force debuffs mostly does not work on people level 80. So, imagine in later caps, when you can only have 2 more tables alongside with Force ( like 100 Force, 100 Bich, 100 Light, for example ) and the usefulness of that is questionable.

Also, notice that many people capped at 80 before the EU update, so many couldn't bother reset their skill tables for a new test.

Hope that helps.

Edited: Seems that my post is too late

lolss it was not late but detailed..!!

It clearifies my doubts and u gave a clear picture abt force for sure.. thanx!!

just one thing, dont chinese need debuffs for PVP? or else EUROS can keep on stunning, burning or freezing them? Is Force like warlock buffs somewher?

and another thing clerics have at least a dozen different heals right? those are 100x better than chinese pots, chinese force doesn't have that.

force has a few debuffs but the good ones do NOT work if a cleric puts up holyspell/word. and because Euros can keep debuffing etc.. etc.. that's why a party of euros usually beats a party of chinese.

even though 9/10 I'ts only because the Euro party knows how to work together and don't go around doing their own thing. and yes, Euro buffs are insane but so are our pot delays,

there are plenty of ways to take out a euro party I've just never seen a party of chinese organized enough to go and do it.

GodsAngel wrote:and another thing clerics have at least a dozen different heals right? those are 100x better than chinese pots, chinese force doesn't have that.

+1. Healing cycle / Orbit beats pot. Group healing and stuff you dont use in PVP, mostly.

By the way, Chinese Force have a good thing about it is that it's nearly instant. You hit the key, and that's it. For EU, you'd have to switch weapon, and maybe, diseased the enemy before debuffing. That costs time, and practise.

I've also heard that Force could complement STR Chinese pretty well, say, a blader, since they've got a considerable amount of taking ability already, and need that extra damage.

If u pick Force, at cap 140 u'll regret.
Force for 1v1 only. Pure int nuker Light, Force is nice though. 2 vital + 2 nukes 1 shout = dead.
Cap 80
Normal nuke dmg = 6k
After use vital = 10k

NuclearSilo wrote:If u pick Force, at cap 140 u'll regret.
Force for 1v1 only. Pure int nuker Light, Force is nice though. 2 vital + 2 nukes 1 shout = dead.
Cap 80
Normal nuke dmg = 6k
After use vital = 10k

And scarily enough, that's without the division vital spot, which will be added at level 90. Like warlocks, if no cleric is available, force nukers are deadly.

I'm working on mine...

NuclearSilo wrote:If u pick Force, at cap 140 u'll regret.
Force for 1v1 only. Pure int nuker Light, Force is nice though. 2 vital + 2 nukes 1 shout = dead.
Cap 80
Normal nuke dmg = 6k
After use vital = 10k

if you pick force, you will regret it.

KarmaPolice wrote:

NuclearSilo wrote:If u pick Force, at cap 140 u'll regret.
Force for 1v1 only. Pure int nuker Light, Force is nice though. 2 vital + 2 nukes 1 shout = dead.
Cap 80
Normal nuke dmg = 6k
After use vital = 10k

if you pick force, you will regret it.

I see no reason why I will regret it. One of my builds will be a force nuker, meaning lightning/force with a bit of cold as far as I can afford it. Such a build will be very nice against party mobs, giants, party giants, and uniques. They will also be very effective as long as clerics don't show up on the battlefield. Basically they're a cross between a nuker and a warlock, with a bit of clerical healing and res on the side.

The point is Nuker without ice is like 1 hit by rogue or wizard, u'll have no time to cast vital force. Vital is easy to cure and Holy Spell destroy it.
Fire shield => resist 78%. 30s => 6.6s
Holy Spell => resist 100% (atm it has some bug and cant fully resist)

NuclearSilo wrote:The point is Nuker without ice is like 1 hit by rogue or wizard, u'll have no time to cast vital force. Vital is easy to cure and Holy Spell destroy it.
Fire shield => resist 78%. 30s => 6.6s
Holy Spell => resist 100% (atm it has some bug and cant fully resist)

Under that same definition using bicheon/lightning would be useless as well. The only feasible INT build would be lightning/cold. Personally I won't worry too much about anything beyond the 120 cap, at which time I plan to have force 120, lightning 120, cold 60 (and bicheon 120, lightning 120, cold 60 for my other character).

phulshof wrote:

NuclearSilo wrote:The point is Nuker without ice is like 1 hit by rogue or wizard, u'll have no time to cast vital force. Vital is easy to cure and Holy Spell destroy it.
Fire shield => resist 78%. 30s => 6.6s
Holy Spell => resist 100% (atm it has some bug and cant fully resist)

Under that same definition using bicheon/lightning would be useless as well. The only feasible INT build would be lightning/cold. Personally I won't worry too much about anything beyond the 120 cap, at which time I plan to have force 120, lightning 120, cold 60 (and bicheon 120, lightning 120, cold 60 for my other character).

Yes bicheon is useless against fire shield and holy spell. But i dont see why lightning is useless like u said.

I meant that under that reasoning, the bicheon/lightning build is useless. According to you, lightning/cold is the only viable build at the 140 cap.

As said: I currently don't look beyond the 120 cap. Considering the XP and SP needs for level 120, I wonder if I'll ever make it beyond that point anyway.

thanx
It was a nice dicussion..

worry abt the 140 caps when it comes. its quite obvious the mastery count thingie is rather flawed when comparing euro and chinese.

personally, if you compare euro and chinese characters, it seems euros are intended to be pure str or ints while chinese builds could be intended to be hybrids. just a thought ...

Force isnt a useless mastery. With it chinese charachters have access to various means to support other charachters (including euro). Its unpopularity stems from the fact that initially chinese charachters do not benefit much from its use. The paradox with which it was design also didnt favour its use in a party ie having an effective range much smaller than that of a cleric, yet chinese charachters work best individually and more spread out. Defense buffs, status buffs, stat buffs, and recovery skills from clerics greatly increases the capability of any party the cleric is in. Force achieves a similar effect by debuffing a single target with decay, weaken and impotent. The effects are not balanced, and clerics do much better at achieving it. Force is just much quicker, and requires less preparation.

I wish the vital spots and cure therapy didn't have such huge cooldown periods. They're not nearly as useful as the warlock debuffs this way.

getting force for chinese characters have always been a struggle to me. i like it but find it not worth the sp considering they eat up your mastery counts.

True, unless you build a build around it. My force nuker (lightning/force) requires a lot less SP than my KD nuker, since Chinese characters have little use for the healing skills. Most of the important force skills get a new skill every 10 levels, and then there's a few that get it every 3. Compare that to the SP needs of a good bicheon build.