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There are several bard skills that compliment Rogues.


1. Moving March - This should be pretty obvious. You can move 20%+ faster all the time. Great for rogues! Doesn't stack with scud, but that's okay...

2. Swing March - 80%+ moving speed. Enough said?

3. Holding Clamor - You can use Mana Cycle (see below), use Holding Clamor, then shoot away with your crossbow. As long as you don't use poison, the enemy won't be able to run towards you. This works great against melee-only enemies.

4. Patter Clamor - Same as Holding Clamor, but it's a 7 meter AoE skill instead.

5. Temptation - As if disguising yourself, going invisible, using poison, and sacrificing your defense and/or HP for bonus offensive power wasn't enough... Now you can make enemy monsters attack other enemy monsters. This goes well with the theme of trickery that rogues have.

6. Mana Cycle - Infinite MP as long as you don't go below the amount of MP that it takes to cast this skill. Now you only need to worry about HP!

7. Tuning Noise and Tuning Sound - These do absolute damage, so they're not affected by INT as far as I know. You can basically do massive damage to anyone no matter how high their defense is, and being full strength won't lower that damage. Plus, you get MP. =P

8. Noise - Lowers the chances of you being attacked when you're not invisible.

9. Discord Wave - Tell those pesky monsters to go away. =P


That's about it for the skills. Not bad, though, eh?


When To Use:

Swing March/Moving March - Whenever it's not on... xD

Mana Cycle - When your MP is near the amount of MP it requires to cast this skill, you should use it.

Holding Clamor - You can use this after Mana Cycle, since you already have your harp on anyway.

Patter Clamor - Use this when you're being chased by lots of mobs... Or just go invisible. xD

Temptation - No idea.

Tuning Noise/Tuning Sound - When you're fighting against something with high physical defense, you can use this skill instead of your physical attacks.

Noise - Whenever it's not on.

Discord Wave - Emergency escape tactic. I imagine you can do some good by using Stealth, then Patter Clamor, when Discord Wave. (And have Noise on!)




So... What do you think? I wrote this after getting Holding Clamor and seeing how useful it was with crossbows.



EDIT:


Flaws and Counter Arguments:

Moving March/Swing March - None.

Holding Clamor/Patter Clamor - You might be able to kill monsters before they get to you. However, what if you can't? Then these skills are super useful. =)

Temptation: Waste of time. However, it's useful in party play and it's fun to use this skill.

Mana Cycle: Waste of time. However, you save money and inventory space because you don't need MP potions. You also get pretty much unlimited skill usage for 16 seconds (minus the time it takes to cast and switch weapons, which is only like 1.5 seconds anyway).

Noise: None.

Discord Wave: Stealth works better. I can't refute that, since I don't have either skill. Still... It's useful to have anyway.

Though I fully agree with you, some of the points you made were weak. Rogues bring a lot of versatility to a group, bard only expands your options for the better (and most are decent for pvp)

Movement speed = Faster pulls for your PT = More exp

Mana Cycle= Not worth it for yourself, but say you pull two giant pt mobs? Chain mana cycle the clerics and wizards, and watch as they never go OOM.

Holding Clamor= Mob beating on the wizard, and you have another tank that doesnt know wtf2do? Clamor the mob so it can stop beating on him/you.

Harp= If you are daggers, congrats.. you no longer need to worry about bolts, you have a ranged pulling weapon.

Temptation= Simply another form of crowd control, can never hurt.


*Edit* I hope people actually read this, Ive seen 10+ topics about this in the last day. So if they say they have "searched", then they dont need to make another topic :p

Question about the Holding Clamor. I realize that it stops monsters from moving, but isn't it broken as soon as they're hit? Or are crossbows an exception to this rule?

Does all above skill need to use with Bard weapon?, personally i like to sub with cleric only with 1 reason, Blessing recovery lv40 skill, can use 300sec, 5 minutes of recovery and even you change back weapon it wont disappear, like bard skill moving march. No fear with low defense or low hp, does not get kill in 2 hit and u will survive with cleric skill. i have this mind set is because i saw the youtube, buff with bard is good for attacking with speed, but it does not safe you form die, if your control tactic is not perfect,

conclusion

bard = walk faster, unlimited mp, cant be attack by argo monster, but this can be slove after you learn invisible skill.

Cleric= Auto regenerate Hp, safe you form potion delay.

Warrior/Rogue are leetsausage kthx.

Lyrikk wrote:Though I fully agree with you, some of the points you made were weak. Rogues bring a lot of versatility to a group, bard only expands your options for the better (and most are decent for pvp)

Thanks. Which points were weak, though? =P

Spellbinder wrote:Question about the Holding Clamor. I realize that it stops monsters from moving, but isn't it broken as soon as they're hit? Or are crossbows an exception to this rule?

They start moving if you hit them with a magical attack. Crossbows are physical, so you can take full advantage of the bind status. =P

Also, the poison imbue counts as a magical attack. That's why the monsters start moving if you use poison + crossbow, and that's why I said not to use that while they're rooted.

5581 wrote:Does all above skill need to use with Bard weapon?

Of course!

5581 wrote:Personally i like to sub with cleric only with 1 reason, Blessing recovery lv40 skill, can use 300sec, 5 minutes of recovery and even you change back weapon it wont disappear, like bard skill moving march. No fear with low defense or low hp, does not get kill in 2 hit and u will survive with cleric skill. i have this mind set is because i saw the youtube, buff with bard is good for attacking with speed, but it does not safe you form die, if your control tactic is not perfect,

It depends on your style of play. I love being a hit-and-run player. I like being sneaky and using deception to my advantage. Bard/Rogue improves that.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with choosing cleric as your second mastery. I posted this to show the advantages of having a Rogue/Bard. Rogue/Cleric has some advantages too. It's probably easier to survive with Rogue/Cleric. You get trickier skills with Rogue/Bard.

Also... Healing is absolute, but you still have the problem of MP. If you run out, you can't heal. With bard, you don't have to worry much about MP. You have to worry more about HP. I don't really use many MP potions anymore. With my Cleric/Bard, I don't use any potions at all. HP is probably more important than MP because you're dead without it. Still... MP allows you to use skills. Without skills, you're pretty much dead in PvP or against strong monsters.

5581 wrote:conclusion

bard = walk faster, unlimited mp, cant be attack by argo monster, but this can be slove after you learn invisible skill.

Cleric= Auto regenerate Hp, safe you form potion delay.

Yeah, you're much faster with bards. At level 70, you get Swing March. That nearly doubles your speed. If that works when stealth is activated (can't test until I'm level 30), you'll be scary. Even if it doesn't, you now have those skills that are "made obsolete" by stealth becoming useful again. Either way, you have something to keep you safer.

By the way... You can be a great Bard because of your unlimited MP pool even as a full strength character. You won't be able to take full advantage of Cleric skills because of your small MP pool. You'll end up sucking down potions just to support people.

no gd at all. mana not reali a prob but the hp. at high lvl, u dun think u wanna keep changing weapon in battle. desperate and xtreme is gd enuff. i dun see the point, some of the buffing when it will gone when switch weapon.

I thought after the enemy is binded if he sustains any type of damage he is released from the bind?

hwing91 wrote:I thought after the enemy is binded if he sustains any type of damage he is released from the bind?

I already stated this several times. They're released if you use a magical attack on them. If you switch to crossbows and don't use poison, you can hit someone for 10 seconds without having him running at you.

Holding clamour fails ALL the time, and even when it succeeds they are held for like 2-3 seconds tops.

blocklandmac wrote:By the way... You can be a great Bard because of your unlimited MP pool even as a full strength character. You won't be able to take full advantage of Cleric skills because of your small MP pool. You'll end up sucking down potions just to support people.

you are wrong, maybe rogue have little mp, but the lv40 Blessed Recovery skill is remain 5 minutes, once you activate (can change back to your class weapon), how should i spend much mp from healing myself?, when pvp comes you will lose because of mp run out, means you can make a second to third attack before you run out of mp, but you you have only speed and no healing, i can confirm you sure die if you fail to kill someone, potion delay is really something on pvp. think about when you can really become to tank something with those healing skill, tank for 5minute is a lot dude. bard is good for boosting mp, but the cleric skill does not take much of your mp.

i only up res lv1 and group heal lv1, faith lv= blessing recovery lv required.

rogue/cleric is so much better. Its on Ksro builds.

RichardDawkins12 wrote:rogue/cleric is so much better. Its on Ksro builds.

+100000000000000000000000000000


U guys better start watching some Ksro pvping, Bard made for MAG buffs.

5581 wrote:

blocklandmac wrote:By the way... You can be a great Bard because of your unlimited MP pool even as a full strength character. You won't be able to take full advantage of Cleric skills because of your small MP pool. You'll end up sucking down potions just to support people.

you are wrong, maybe rogue have little mp, but the lv40 Blessed Recovery skill is remain 5 minutes, once you activate (can change back to your class weapon), how should i spend much mp from healing myself?, when pvp comes you will lose because of mp run out, means you can make a second to third attack before you run out of mp, but you you have only speed and no healing, i can confirm you sure die if you fail to kill someone, potion delay is really something on pvp. think about when you can really become to tank something with those healing skill, tank for 5minute is a lot dude. bard is good for boosting mp, but the cleric skill does not take much of your mp.

i only up res lv1 and group heal lv1, faith lv= blessing recovery lv required.

Ah.... Good point. My Cleric/Bard is only level 14 or 15 because I have a gap and I can't find parties. I haven't been able to test out higher level Cleric skills yet.




P.S. Are you guys saying that Rogue/Cleric is better for PvP or better in general? I want to clear that up. I have nothing against Rogue/Cleric. I just went with Rogue/Bard and wanted to share my view on it with you. Rogue/Cleric sounds great too, if only for Recovery Division and Bless Spell.

5581 wrote:

blocklandmac wrote:By the way... You can be a great Bard because of your unlimited MP pool even as a full strength character. You won't be able to take full advantage of Cleric skills because of your small MP pool. You'll end up sucking down potions just to support people.

you are wrong, maybe rogue have little mp, but the lv40 Blessed Recovery skill is remain 5 minutes, once you activate (can change back to your class weapon), how should i spend much mp from healing myself?, when pvp comes you will lose because of mp run out, means you can make a second to third attack before you run out of mp, but you you have only speed and no healing, i can confirm you sure die if you fail to kill someone, potion delay is really something on pvp. think about when you can really become to tank something with those healing skill, tank for 5minute is a lot dude. bard is good for boosting mp, but the cleric skill does not take much of your mp.

i only up res lv1 and group heal lv1, faith lv= blessing recovery lv required.

I don't know WTF you're talking about, I looked at the Cleric skill tree, there is NO Level 40 skill by the name of Blessed Recovery skill. There aren't any skill with that name or any skill at that level that fits the description!

Juey wrote:

5581 wrote:

blocklandmac wrote:By the way... You can be a great Bard because of your unlimited MP pool even as a full strength character. You won't be able to take full advantage of Cleric skills because of your small MP pool. You'll end up sucking down potions just to support people.

you are wrong, maybe rogue have little mp, but the lv40 Blessed Recovery skill is remain 5 minutes, once you activate (can change back to your class weapon), how should i spend much mp from healing myself?, when pvp comes you will lose because of mp run out, means you can make a second to third attack before you run out of mp, but you you have only speed and no healing, i can confirm you sure die if you fail to kill someone, potion delay is really something on pvp. think about when you can really become to tank something with those healing skill, tank for 5minute is a lot dude. bard is good for boosting mp, but the cleric skill does not take much of your mp.

i only up res lv1 and group heal lv1, faith lv= blessing recovery lv required.

I don't know WTF you're talking about, I looked at the Cleric skill tree, there is NO Level 40 skill by the name of Blessed Recovery skill. There aren't any skill with that name or any skill at that level that fits the description!

i dont know wtf your eyes are looking at, from the top count until bottom, number 6, the mastery name is Blessed Recovery (from the SRO web, under game info -> skill -> buff -> cleric) the real name of the lv40 skill is recovery division under blessed recovery section. double check b4 you say there aren't any skill with that name or any skill at that level that fits the description!

Juey wrote:

5581 wrote:

blocklandmac wrote:By the way... You can be a great Bard because of your unlimited MP pool even as a full strength character. You won't be able to take full advantage of Cleric skills because of your small MP pool. You'll end up sucking down potions just to support people.

you are wrong, maybe rogue have little mp, but the lv40 Blessed Recovery skill is remain 5 minutes, once you activate (can change back to your class weapon), how should i spend much mp from healing myself?, when pvp comes you will lose because of mp run out, means you can make a second to third attack before you run out of mp, but you you have only speed and no healing, i can confirm you sure die if you fail to kill someone, potion delay is really something on pvp. think about when you can really become to tank something with those healing skill, tank for 5minute is a lot dude. bard is good for boosting mp, but the cleric skill does not take much of your mp.

i only up res lv1 and group heal lv1, faith lv= blessing recovery lv required.

I don't know WTF you're talking about, I looked at the Cleric skill tree, there is NO Level 40 skill by the name of Blessed Recovery skill. There aren't any skill with that name or any skill at that level that fits the description!

Please Check before u shoot at someone that badly, it just embarass you. THERE IS A SKILL NAME BLESSED RECOVERY

1h Shield Warrior is BEST sub with Rogue Xbow... but Xbow will be main, and 1h S/S as sub...

In party, u are the tanker and lurer (best lurer with fast shot), soloing, u own mobs since most mobs die b4 reaching u

In PVP, you can keep your distance with KD and poison using Xbow, once they close in, u switch to 1h Shield for KB and slowdown... requires some fast microing but it is one of the better PVP and party-er for Euro STR char - no doubt

Much better than 2h, Axe, Dagger and whatever other class combi for PURE STR Ero - I had tried a char (my friend's char) he is lv. 59 Warrior/Rogue, and he is using 1h Shield and Xbow mainly, in both partying and soloing... and so am I, simply because its just THAT smmoth to play...

Bard is still best a sub for Wizard, since it benefits them the most, and as for speed movement, just get use th e pots or get another bard in party

D3athscythe wrote:

Juey wrote:

5581 wrote:

blocklandmac wrote:By the way... You can be a great Bard because of your unlimited MP pool even as a full strength character. You won't be able to take full advantage of Cleric skills because of your small MP pool. You'll end up sucking down potions just to support people.

you are wrong, maybe rogue have little mp, but the lv40 Blessed Recovery skill is remain 5 minutes, once you activate (can change back to your class weapon), how should i spend much mp from healing myself?, when pvp comes you will lose because of mp run out, means you can make a second to third attack before you run out of mp, but you you have only speed and no healing, i can confirm you sure die if you fail to kill someone, potion delay is really something on pvp. think about when you can really become to tank something with those healing skill, tank for 5minute is a lot dude. bard is good for boosting mp, but the cleric skill does not take much of your mp.

i only up res lv1 and group heal lv1, faith lv= blessing recovery lv required.

I don't know WTF you're talking about, I looked at the Cleric skill tree, there is NO Level 40 skill by the name of Blessed Recovery skill. There aren't any skill with that name or any skill at that level that fits the description!

Please Check before u shoot at someone that badly, it just embarass you. THERE IS A SKILL NAME BLESSED RECOVERY

WTF, which version are you playing? Screenshot of that skill?? I don't see blessed recovery in my cleric skill tree at all!

Edit: So I double check again, and there is still not any skill with that name, HOWEVER i saw there is an entire SKILLTREE with that name. So before you asshole tell me to not "shoot at someone that badly" check your Farking wordings. There is still no lv 40 skill with that name, but there is a skilltree with that name, which is completely different. I was merely saying there wasn't any skill with that name.

it also confused me also, but i figure it out quickly,


the lvl 40 skill in the skill tree blessed recovery.. its not a big deal, every calm down

ive decided to go bard. so far im liking it

Rizla wrote:Holding clamour fails ALL the time, and even when it succeeds they are held for like 2-3 seconds tops.

Unfortunately, you're right... It's just not worth switching to harp to cast. By the time you switch back to dagger/xbow and cast DD/EX the mob is already coming at you again.