Official Rogue Subclass Discussion

[XemnasXD]

Glamour Said,

what i mean with that is that you have to kill the enemy as fast as you can that you dont get killed. So if you didnt skill bard and the enemy uses phantom-walk you are dead because until you have switched to xbow if you uses dagger he kills you 2 times or more. So choose bard and run 80% faster, so no chinese char can run away from you and you can stay close to them to kill them easily with dagger.

I agree speed is a virtue.But if ur so worried about pvp,jobs why not run 100% faster instead of 80% and buy a speedpotion..Unlike bard with a Rogue/Cleric Sub u would have superspeed(100%) & Superdefence! Bless,recovery division etc. Now u tell me which is better during pVp or jobs.

@phil at this point idc about anything you have to say about me we've discussed this in threads before. You don't like me, you don't like the way i post, you don't agree with anything i say. tbh i only skimmed through what you said but stop holding me to a special criteria i don't have time to play rival with you.

[torinchibi]

Bard is great for fast leveling solo.
Cleric is great for PVP solo.

There are many clerics around.
There not many bards around.

You will most likely have clerics in party to help you when it counts the most, like in guildwar or jobwar, which is the case for me. We have 3 high level clerics in guild when there are only 1 bard. Also aside from the pure clerics, there are many wizards (at least in our guild) that go for cleric sub. They too can bless and ress if needed too.

People mentioned the speed potion in store, I would never buy one, my 80% that lasts for ever, and also can be shared to other people is way better than the 15 minutes 225k 100% in store.

Noise is also great beside from grinding, it keeps agroo mob from hitting on u when you are out jobbing, so that u can go stealth more easier.

At my level in PVP, I can kill most full str 80 sosun not count blader Sosun (3 skills then) in 2 skills, they are lucky if they get 1 hit on me, and I even can survive at least 2 hits from them.

As a rogue, play it right, and you will never get hit. You get in fast, do your thing and ge the hell out as fast as you can, then disappear. You need bard skills for this.

Sure, I agree noise is good when you are out jobbing around mobs, but it's not such a big advantage when you would probably be camping out on strategic spots.

Yes, you can have free speed and buff your whole party, and it may work for your guild because there are many clerics,but I would rather have a party full of /clerics, and that 1 person that's a bard instead of 1 cleric and a party full of /bards. Infinite bless spell during job fights beats infinate 80% speed. Oh, and the whole idea of catching someone because of faster speed gets nullified if that some1 is using a potion....

With that, since you have an active guild full of clerics, I guess going bard was a good choice, but as a stand alone character, it is still inferior. If you are cheap enough to be unable to afford potions that cost 1 random 8D tab's worth, that's another story.

[bigbamboo]

Im Kinda Confused seeying I have seen different opinions on the delay Recovery division has to heal hp.

Is it a chunk of HP recovery every 3 seconds,5 seconds or 7 seconds?

[int100kbr]

ok I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE of a rogue cleric and my opinion is...CRAP i use my healing skills to heal my seLf 4-5 times my mana is gonne... if something attacks me after im done healing.THEN im DEAD ,WHY? cause i have no mana to kill them...

NOW if i had bard
1] i would not have gotten attacked by the mob.
2] i could had ran the F*** away
3]i would have enough mana to attack
4]if i dont have enough mana i can just try to use mana cicle=mana back:)

IM DELEVELING ALL MY CLERIC SKILLS AND GETTING BARD ISNTEAD!!!

1. Writing in big colored letters doesn't make your post valuable.
2. YOUR DOING IT WRONG. you use recovery division to gain back health not heal dumbass.
3. Cleric sub is for PvP i already said bard was best for PvE
4. (can you tell im getting pissed now) Your an idiot fo rnot bringing MP pots
5. If your just using rogue skills you shouldn't run out of mana they cost like nothing MP wise so you should've been fine even with low MP


I could go on and on but im going stop there i hope that after reading this you'll realize your a moron. Im surprised you were able to figure out how to use the hot keys (if you have) with a brain as small as yours. And don't think i don't know a troll when i see one im seriously getting sick of Bard-Subclass fanboys jumping down everyones throat for there amazing abilities to run away and keep the mobs off you.....its not badass and it won't help in PvP unless your specialty is running away as fast as possible so stfu and learn how to play the game before you start mouthing off about sh*t you clearly don't know anything about.....

theres a number of people saying that they respect you the most on SRF in the thread at OTL. Don't lose your credibility by stepping on an ignorant person

you made this thread and you made the guide. expect stupid people come begging to you for answers and just answer them or tell them politely to read the guide or something. Your post is not something that I have expected come from you

there is so many problems with you XemnasXD that i don't even know where to start. Jstar1 is right. you mentioned several times that this is only a discussion thread, yet someone is giving his opinions (int100kbr) and you comment back saying he has a small brain. I mean, like what Jstar1 said, who would respect someone who doesn't respect other people. When i read that post of yours i found it not only impolite but very rude.

its not badass and it won't help in PvP unless your specialty is running away as fast as possible so stfu and learn how to play the game before you start mouthing off about sh*t you clearly don't know anything about.....

so you say it wont help in PVP unless your specialty is running away as fast as possible. lets put it this way, DAM STRAIGHT. what if my specialty is running away as fast as possible after attacking? dont tell me to stfu and learn how to play, from the attitude of how you write some people might even think you work for Joymax and has experienced playing every type of build there is. i stealth, hit and run as fast as possible.

1. Writing in big colored letters doesn't make your post valuable.

may i ask you some questions? what in the world is wrong with typing in bold/colored writing? why do you think they have it here on SRF so that we could do that? why do you think MS word has it? have you ever writtin essays? i don't care if you haven't but you HAVE posted in SRF haven't you? you have seen people writing in bold haven't you? do you know why people write in bold? do you know what exactly writing something in bold represents? well let me tell you dumbass BOLD IS USED FOR EMPHASIS TO MAKE CERTAIN WORDS AND PHRASES STAND OUT FROM SURROUNDING TEXT. so will you flame me now for writing that in BOLD?

2. YOUR DOING IT WRONG. you use recovery division to gain back health not heal dumbass.

here we go again. calling someone a dumbass, making it sound like your the best and we should all bow in front of you for answers. what Jstar said, "just answer them or tell them politely to read the guide or something" i just hope you didnt mean it when you said it. actually, i really feel sorry for the guy, not only being called a dumbass but having been told having a small brain.

4. (can you tell im getting pissed now) Your an idiot fo rnot bringing MP pots

yes i can tell your getting pissed but i just don't understand why you are getting pissed inside a discussion thread. what he meant was that he didn't have enough MP to use the skills, not he didn't have enough MP pots.. so it was pretty pointless of you to call him an idiot for not bringing pots when its your problem for not reading his words right. just don't forget that euros have 15sec MP pot delay as well.

and just to let you know, i don't have a rogue/bard so don't think i'm going against you.

ty so much so many people criticise me i was about to make a new account but thnks to u im not

[nphillip]

i don't have time to play rival with you.

you don't have time? or you cant?
i strongly advise you to proof read what you write. and try respecting members of SRF instead of making them sound and look bad.

and no probs int100kbr i was only being honest.

[kwfreedom]

<< EDITED >>

- cin

[xene]

cleric bless spell is ownage. and healing cycle

[xtek]

Im a Rogue/Warrior and people are saying that thats a bad combo. but its good for offensive and defensive fighting

offensive = roge

defensive = warrior

whats wrong with rogue and warrior?

[XemnasXD]

i don't have time to play rival with you.

try respecting members of SRF instead of making them sound and look bad.

that whole quote thing that you did above was trying to make me look bad genius. If you actually took the time to read the page you would've seen this this:

I can't stand ppl who put there opinions in big colored font and think that makes it fact, i think i've flamed everyone that i've seen whose done it so far...it not even that the info was wrong its just such an obnoxious thing to do in a place where ppl are trying to learn from each other...

I think thats a reasonable explanation for my response and alot of ppl agree with me that its an obnoxious thing to do. Theres no need to blast your idea in size 24 font with colors its like standing up and yelling in a lecture hall.

But i already stated this. You didn't see it because once you saw a post from me your pants got wet with the excitement of writing a great response that would leave me both looking bad and regretting my actions while at the same time making you look like the bigger man. Did i get all that right cause i think i did. I've already been over this with you phil i've even asked you to pm me about it but you refuse because you don't want a conversation with me you want a conversation with me in front of everyone. Theres probably a lame reason why too but like i said b4 stop holding me to a criteria you don't even hold yourself to cause if you really said all that BS for int100kbr you would post something a bit more constructive aimed at him to make him feel better. Instead you choose to argue with me so stop playing off your a good guy coming to the rescue, I don't buy the act.


It was way to easy to shoot everything you said straight to sh*t and the only why im posting this is so you know i did. Like i said i don't have time to play rival with your if your going going to quote everything i say and play devils advocate with it be my guest but from now don't even expect me to acknowledge it. I've got bigger fish to fry in RL and on SRF so stop trying to get me to recognize or acknowledge you as anything more than a raving lunatic. I don't respect you, i don't respect anything you post, i don't respect your ideas. I already know you don't respect me so theres no need to say anything you just don't see why other ppl do. tbh neither do i, i type what i type and try to make ppl laugh when i can, feel bad when i can, and become informed when i can same as everyone else. So get over whatever grudge you have against me cause its not worth my time...

oh and F*k proof reading im not in english class you get the idea...

[nphillip]

Actually, ever since I joined SRF ive only noticed one person who flames at people for writing in big coloured writing and that’s you. In fact I personally think it’s a good idea to make specific words stand out. Small problems like that and you start flaming at a person, that’s one of many reasons as to why I don’t respect you.

You didn't see it because once you saw a post from me your pants got wet with the excitement of writing a great response that would leave me both looking bad and regretting my actions while at the same time making you look like the bigger man.

Let me get this straight as soon as I see a post from you, in my head it thinks of one thing ‘omg, now what does he have to say’. I don’t get the excitement of writing a great response in fact I find it pointless. To be honest I don’t with all your other posts but for this one yes. I am making you look bad as you make other people look bad and obviously I’m trying to make you regret your actions, if not why am I even writing this? Aren’t you doing the same thing by making me look bad?

Did i get all that right cause i think i did. I've already been over this with you phil i've even asked you to pm me about it but you refuse because you don't want a conversation with me you want a conversation with me in front of everyone. Theres probably a lame reason why too but like i said b4 stop holding me to a criteria you don't even hold yourself to cause if you really said all that BS for int100kbr you would post something a bit more constructive aimed at him to make him feel better. Instead you choose to argue with me so stop playing off your a good guy coming to the rescue, I don't buy the act.

XemnasXD you crack me up at time. Why do you act like you know everything? I choose not to have a conversation with you in private. For a simple answer, I know you try to embarrass and make people feel bad, ill do the same. (And if i post it on one of your threads you'll reply faster. Because you know how you check your own threads and maybe others youve posted in about 30times a day so you can quote back at those who quoted you? yeh.)

I’m sure that not EVERYONE in this forum respects you and I know some people out there are agreeing with me. I’m sure that int100kbr will feel a lot better if I made you look bad. And with my second post I specifically told him “no probs, I was only being honest” So next time you want to act smart and try scold every sentence of mine try actually reading it. By the way, I strongly advise you to call me by my full name Phillip or stick with my forum name nphillip. I don’t know you very well.

It was way to easy to shoot everything you said straight to sh*t and the only why im posting this is so you know i did. Like i said i don't have time to play rival with your if your going going to quote everything i say and play devils advocate with it be my guest but from now don't even expect me to acknowledge it. I've got bigger fish to fry in RL and on SRF so stop trying to get me to recognize or acknowledge you as anything more than a raving lunatic. I don't respect you, i don't respect anything you post, i don't respect your ideas. I already know you don't respect me so theres no need to say anything you just don't see why other ppl do. tbh neither do i, i type what i type and try to make ppl laugh when i can, feel bad when i can, and become informed when i can same as everyone else. So get over whatever grudge you have against me cause its not worth my time...

oh and F*k proof reading im not in english class you get the idea...

Lets get this straight, you’re the one who plays rival and never stops quoting what I say. I’ve mentioned this issue twice in other threads that you never stop and you just want to win even if it involves you repeating things AND I also told you that if someone doesn’t quote back it doesn’t mean you’ve won the argument I don’t know about other people but for me it’s just pointless.

I’m glad you know that I don’t respect you, so next time when I post or start threads, JUST STAY AWAY FROM THEM if you see one of my post and want to quote it, just get lost. Truthfully, I don’t want to see the word XemnasXD in any of my threads alright?

Unlike you I have school in about 10mins so excuse my mistakes.

[torinchibi]

Im a Rogue/Warrior and people are saying that thats a bad combo. but its good for offensive and defensive fighting

offensive = roge

defensive = warrior

whats wrong with rogue and warrior?

People say it is a bad combo, because in PvP they cannot offer each other anything, except for the rogue switching and using shield bump against glaviers and bladers to buy pot time. It's probably better than a bard but people don't really realize the benefits. You can pop out, kill 1 person, switch to warrior and skin yourself then run to safety, and it would be pretty effective escape technique, especially with speed pots.

It's actually an awesome build for hit and run strategies...the run would just take a little longer, but with quick action it's much safer.

[achmalach]

bump

[XemnasXD]

anyone else here think the new rogue vid in GD plays a huge deciding factor in this subclass discussion...

[Juey]

I've seen that video, but what happens if the chinese were actually playing smart, and wait for the 45 seconds of bless to wear off? It's like fighting a chinese blader/ sword nuker with Castle shield or iron shield on, u dont fight him with that skill on, u wait til it's gone.

[XemnasXD]

you only have to time to pull out and wait in organized PvP....if your out jobbing its not like they have a gate to sit in and wait for your buff to wear off...still though it depends on the way you want to play, coming from being a blader i like staying in the fight longer but alot of ppl seem to like bard for some reason and so you've proven in your vids its not a bad sub-class either....

[MrFudge]

I've seen that video, but what happens if the chinese were actually playing smart, and wait for the 45 seconds of bless to wear off? It's like fighting a chinese blader/ sword nuker with Castle shield or iron shield on, u dont fight him with that skill on, u wait til it's gone.

as opposed to bard letting you do what? run away?? LOL.
100% speed potion covers that.

she could've easssssily turned on dagger desperate and played like you play.

[Juey]

I've seen that video, but what happens if the chinese were actually playing smart, and wait for the 45 seconds of bless to wear off? It's like fighting a chinese blader/ sword nuker with Castle shield or iron shield on, u dont fight him with that skill on, u wait til it's gone.

as opposed to bard letting you do what? run away?? LOL.
100% speed potion covers that.

she could've easssssily turned on dagger desperate and played like you play.

Bard allows to level up faster which will be important when the cap 90 comes. Oh and free speed pots . She can bless yes sure, but a smart would just wait in pvp, and in job war, she should had gone stealth anyway not just expose herself like that, and in guildwar, there would be other clerics and bards doing the buff, u should just be the rogue.

[torinchibi]

I've seen that video, but what happens if the chinese were actually playing smart, and wait for the 45 seconds of bless to wear off? It's like fighting a chinese blader/ sword nuker with Castle shield or iron shield on, u dont fight him with that skill on, u wait til it's gone.

as opposed to bard letting you do what? run away?? LOL.
100% speed potion covers that.

she could've easssssily turned on dagger desperate and played like you play.

Bard allows to level up faster which will be important when the cap 90 comes. Oh and free speed pots . She can bless yes sure, but a smart would just wait in pvp, and in job war, she should had gone stealth anyway not just expose herself like that, and in guildwar, there would be other clerics and bards doing the buff, u should just be the rogue.

...What would be your idea of waiting it out? If you watched the video, she was using Heaven Flash all the time, so if you start running.... she had 100% speed pot going so she would catch up and bind. And I really don't see why she can't also wait for bless' delay to stop seeing as not many ppl can catch up to 100% speed, especially chinese that will not waste money on pots if they have lightning mastery. It's like saying, why can't they just wait for you to come out of stealth......cuz it's not easy tanking those shots for the 45 secs...

[MrFudge]

I've seen that video, but what happens if the chinese were actually playing smart, and wait for the 45 seconds of bless to wear off? It's like fighting a chinese blader/ sword nuker with Castle shield or iron shield on, u dont fight him with that skill on, u wait til it's gone.

as opposed to bard letting you do what? run away?? LOL.
100% speed potion covers that.

she could've easssssily turned on dagger desperate and played like you play.

Bard allows to level up faster which will be important when the cap 90 comes. Oh and free speed pots . She can bless yes sure, but a smart would just wait in pvp, and in job war, she should had gone stealth anyway not just expose herself like that, and in guildwar, there would be other clerics and bards doing the buff, u should just be the rogue.

okayyy so we'd have a rogue with 100% moving speed pot, and he'd have stealth AND bless that can save 7 other people in his party after the other cleric's blesses are recharging.

i dont get your point juey, its just bard ftl and thats final.

[Juey]

This is pointless, I've been pretty much repeating what I've said in my first post in this thread over and over, and you guys seem to repeat yourself too.

There are 2 ways of playing rogue, bard is perfectly fine, and so is the way of the cleric.

I just don't like it when people denounce the other build without a good reason, just because they are of a different build.

oh and btw

How to wait out a spell:

1. see the spell being used.
2. phantom step or put on a shield and retreat to the nearby safezon
3. after 45 seconds go out again and attack.

Oh and don't compare it to stealth, which is pretty much continuously, lasting for 3 minutes (at lv 80) and cooldown only like 15 seconds, so u can reuse it over and over.

However, if you somehow want to play dumb, try a blader that has snowshield on, castle shield on, and ice wall on. oh and dont use stealth against him either.

1. wait for him to buff all that buffs then start attacking him
2. your first attack will take down the snow wall
3. your next attack will do about 100 dmg due to the snowshield and castle shield.
4. keep attacking him for all the duration of the lasting time of those buff, while getting knocked down and stab by him.
5. Die a stupid death while fighting someone with all their defense buff on and wonder how u could get owned like that.

[MrFudge]

juey,

you are a hit and run rogue, what stops them from doing the same?

[Juey]

juey,

you are a hit and run rogue, what stops them from doing the same?

Nothing, except a litle fee that speed potion form the store.
Hey be creative invent new ways to fight, I won't stop you, but as they say, if it ain't broken why fix it. Hit and run is a sure working method and rogues are born to hit and run.

[darkmaster21]

Bard ftl.

Cleric ftw.

In the end bard sucks compared to all the defense/life saving skills that you can get from cleric.

[borat2]

juey,

you are a hit and run rogue, what stops them from doing the same?

Nothing, except a litle fee that speed potion form the store.
Hey be creative invent new ways to fight, I won't stop you, but as they say, if it ain't broken why fix it. Hit and run is a sure working method and rogues are born to hit and run.

is it so hard for you to just say well look guys i might be mistaken in your choice?

your comment on in it will help you level faster is simply wrong you will have to grind in party after 80 if you at least ever want to reach cap 90 and grinding in party is actually doing something i believe a full buff char the cleric/bard is more welcome since you as a rogue can deal great damage and are important to kill mobs.

going solo grind i do agree with you that bard is actually a good choice but cant understand it since you said you got nearly fully powerlevelled all the way, you got bard for show? or is it there for a purpose i mean the times you grinded yourself you could waste that 220k+ gold to buy potions or make them yourself, another reason you have the crossbow for a reason you already have range speed isnt that important then to grind, having a bard for speed in your party is also not really needed since when you grind with a group you don`t want to move much you want to stay on your position and lure mobs towards you, each his job so you either will have to choose bard or rogue you cant really combine both all the time.

having the cleric/rogue combination can save the whole party or when things go wrong you can still revive those dead clerics and bards. making you more useful

i am not saying that bard/rogue is a bad choice each his own choices but there are better combinations of this build.

[Juey]

i got plevel to 69 from then I had to solo. Which mean for over 2 months I had to solo from 69 to 80. After the cap comes bard will be much more useful again with that noise skill to train to 90 cap.

[Da_Realest]

If I was a rogue, I would take the bard sub over the cleric sub.

Without the skills that increase your damage and lower your defense, you're pretty much a bow user with a bit higher damage with a 15 sec pot delay. Killing as fast as possible should be your highest priority.

Sure you have Recovery Division and Bless Spell to increase your survivable capabilities, but you still are a Euro. I agree that Rogue/Cleric is better than Rogue/Bard in a 1v1 situation, but in a war situation, I disagree.

Being a Euro, you are the easiest to kill unless you have just about every support buff on you. Once you are spotted, you will be swarmed and killed. It doesn't matter if you have Recovery Division and Bless Spell activated. Your 15 sec pot delay will lead to your downfall.

If you are able to have another bard in your party(I think they work if someone else just equips a harp), the bard dances are more useful than cleric buffs in my opinion.

[XemnasXD]

In a war situation you'll most likely be warring alongside other Euros if you are a euro. Since Bless spells of different lvls stack having a cleric sub would only make you better.

Yeah as soon soon as you come out of stealth ppl are gonna try to rape you but unless your a tank with with suns i doubt you'll survive being raped by any group of high lvls even if you weren't a rogue.

So ppl will attempt to rape any rogue period as soon as stealth comes off. Would you rather be taken out in one hit or would you rather tank a few hits and take some more ppl down with you.

Bard sub offers 2 main things for a solo build. Speed and non-aggro. Neither of those will help you win a war or last long in PvP unless you've got a safety zone nearby to run into.

Im sure im not the only one who would rather be out their taking as many hits as possible and being able to kill more than 2 ppl without having to run and go hide afterwards. Sure rogue is about hit and run but that will only take you so far with a Cleric sub you do so much more instead of JUST hit-and-run....

[Juey]

I don't think bless stacks indefinitely, only 2 times. So you only need 2 clerics to have that double stack.

[Da_Realest]

I think it depends on whether or not you have Dagger Desperate or Crossbow Extreme activated while Bless Spell is activated. If you don't have one of the other activated, you may not even have time to kill one opponent before you are swarmed and taken out. I agree that you may be able to take out a few more people depending on your opponents and whether you have one of those suicide skills and Bless Spell activated.

When another bard is in your party, it makes a whole series of skills effective. There seems to be too much emphasis on YOU when there are buffs that benefit the party as a whole. If a Rogue/Cleric activates Bless Spell, it probably wouldn't purposely be with good intentions for the party. Furthermore, if the opponent sees you activate Bless Spell and stealth, they're going to be even more alert. The is also a chance of the opponent learning and reacting differently to your tendencies and the cool down time of Bless Spell that also must be considered.

The opponent may use stealth detection pots or you may end up in a situation where leaving a safe zone or protected area is not an option. Wars have a tendency to spread over a great distance and the range of your cleric skills will become a liability. With the exception of the Blessing series(also limited to 4 people), there are no other Cleric buffs or heals that match the range of Bard buffs. With the bard sub, your presence on the battlefield can still be felt at a safe distance.

I don't think one sub is overall better than the other, but if you plan to play with teamwork in mind, I believe the Bard sub may be the better option.

Bless Spell does stack indefinitely.

[XemnasXD]

most ppl here are talking about the Rogue as a Solo build. I don't think that many of us plan on using a sub for anything other than to help us out. If we were tbh i'd still go with cleric only because with that pot delay healing and def is more important in a fight than anything bard can offer afaik. Most wars take place at the gate or are organized so you can be around the participates when it starts. I've only been in one war that started when everyone was scattered and the first order my GL said was get to DW. With that in mind during the war just stay within range of the cleric and you'll be fine bard has a wider range i think but its not like ppl can't move closer to each other....