Official Rogue Subclass Discussion

[XemnasXD]

Ok i'm making a rogue with warlock as sub and i'm wondering a few things.

I know first 2 lines of skills in warlock as useless as they make mag damage.
The third one have the useful buff

But whats about the 4th and 5? This "Bloody Trap" skill, does the damage dealt from the trap is based on magical damage? Which means pure str would give crap damage? Anyone tried?

In 6th line, Daze and Fog Sight would be quite useful, giving good effects, but whats about the 3rd skill "Illusion"? I think you need to keep holding the rod for the skill to stay active, and its something like the Mask rogues got? So useless for us?

Oh and in 8th line, I'm wondering, does pure str chars can use the HP leech skills effectivly? Or the amount of HP taken is based on mag damage?
Whats about the damage reflect skills also from the 6th line of skills?

Last question, anyone know what does Mirage and Phantasma skills from the 9th and last line of skills in warlock? what does "Weapon Magical Attack Power % reduce" means? And "Aggro # Reduce" ? Are they effective for a pure str / rogue?

Hope someone can help me.

Go see my rogue guide (which can be found in my sig) it list all the skillz you can use as a warlock

[You_Dead_Yet]

You didnt listed Fog Sight and it seems useful, also you list Illusion but since you need to keep holding the rod and its something like the mask from rogue tree its not really useful.

And whats about the Trap and the HP leech skills? They not good?

And Reflect ones?

[XemnasXD]

You didnt listed Fog Sight and it seems useful, also you list Illusion but since you need to keep holding the rod and its something like the mask from rogue tree its not really useful.

And whats about the Trap and the HP leech skills? They not good?

And Reflect ones?

i didn't think fog sight seemed useful also i listed illusion because unlike duplicate you can cast it whenever wherever so its a bit more useful also

any skill that relies on int based damage isn't worth it and im not sure if you can cast reflect on yourself but i don't think you can.......

that answer all your questions

[XemnasXD]

resurrected to top ppl from making pointless threads asking question that have already been asked an answered...put in here guys

[Juey]

There is no way I could be lv 75 now if I didn't have Bard as subclass. All those Devil Masks, Hunters, Niya Royal Guards would have gangraped me.

Unless you're getting plevel all the time, and never train, only do PVP, and don't mind moving around slowly, then go for Cleric. Otherwise go Bard, the point of Rogue is hit fast disappear fast. So the extra defense is pointless, and you're not supposed to heal or ress other people anyway.

This is how I play my char:
I disappear, appear and attack my target and disappear 10 seconds later. I need speed not defense to do this.

Oh and did I mention with the Noise skill you can level much faster cuz you can train at much higher level area?

[XemnasXD]

I wish i could post some vids but cleric helps ALOT in pvp especially at the later lvls....i solo thief alot so i need to be able to take out 2-4 ppl with my daggers and without bless and recovery division theres no way i'd last logn enough to do that and use DD

[tmimmy13]

Interesting that at guide you said that one of easiest to win are warriors. I come to think pure str warriors( S/S ) are the most toughest enemies i can get. They got that passive skill that reduces critical chances, together with good pimped shield its damn hard to kill those bastards. Also their def increase, then they sprint assault me, knock me back, gives me dull, again do something, in the end it really hurts, since I'm using xbow extreme. Or even worse are those who, sprint assault, knock me back, change to 2hs which follows with knock down, lol sometimes I dont even survive for that long, of course levels of warriors i have fought might be a bit higher I never know, especially at job wars.

Oh, and daggers using rogues are even worse at trade runs, since warrior can have descry buff on all the time,as soon as it runs out he again uses it, so sneaking to him is hopeless

And

I wish i could post some vids but cleric helps ALOT in pvp especially at the later lvls....i solo thief alot so i need to be able to take out 2-4 ppl with my daggers and without bless and recovery division theres no way i'd last logn enough to do that and use DD

There is simply no way you can take out 2-4 ppl with daggers, no matter cleric/bard as a sub. Only way to do close to that something is be xbow>xbow extreme>zerk and abrd as sub to move around damn fast. Even then its doubly possibly, since strongest atack skill has that damn cooldown and with knock back skill even with xbow extreme/zerk i doubt can 1 hit full str,

[XemnasXD]

Interesting that at guide you said that one of easiest to win are warriors. I come to think pure str warriors( S/S ) are the most toughest enemies i can get. They got that passive skill that reduces critical chances, together with good pimped shield its damn hard to kill those bastards. Also their def increase, then they sprint assault me, knock me back, gives me dull, again do something, in the end it really hurts, since I'm using xbow extreme. Or even worse are those who, sprint assault, knock me back, change to 2hs which follows with knock down, lol sometimes I dont even survive for that long, of course levels of warriors i have fought might be a bit higher I never know, especially at job wars.

Oh, and daggers using rogues are even worse at trade runs, since warrior can have descry buff on all the time,as soon as it runs out he again uses it, so sneaking to him is hopeless

And

I wish i could post some vids but cleric helps ALOT in pvp especially at the later lvls....i solo thief alot so i need to be able to take out 2-4 ppl with my daggers and without bless and recovery division theres no way i'd last logn enough to do that and use DD

There is simply no way you can take out 2-4 ppl with daggers, no matter cleric/bard as a sub. Only way to do close to that something is be xbow>xbow extreme>zerk and abrd as sub to move around damn fast. Even then its doubly possibly, since strongest atack skill has that damn cooldown and with knock back skill even with xbow extreme/zerk i doubt can 1 hit full str,

that why is said i wish i could show vids cause i ave taken out trade parties of 3 with just my dagger kill wizard first cleric second and warrior last...easy as that if you have guide comment post them in thee guide this is a subclass discussion afterall

[Etrad]

gives me dull

Thats what poison circle is for.

...unless dull isn't a curse (but I think it is o_O)

[XemnasXD]

Bumped as a cure against useless repeat topics...

[ZiNC]

Dont bump you BAMPER!!!

[nphillip]

XemnasXD has a g@y avatar.

[Deacon]

My vote goes to Cleric. Surviving vs running.. Well choice easy made for me!

[torinchibi]

A giant red hot
BUMP
in hopes of stopping more newbie rogue posts asking for subclasses.

If you are too lazy to read this discussion don't post your own thread, laziness is no excuse for idiocy.

[.AWAKE.]

im lvl 56 80% right now lvl 54 rogue mastery with about 10k sp right no and no sub-class...yes..no sub.
xbow is farmed for my lvl and dagger is a bit behind.
I level just as fast as anyone else does and my character is very strong.

[int100kbr]

ok I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE of a rogue cleric and my opinion is...CRAP i use my healing skills to heal my seLf 4-5 times my mana is gonne... if something attacks me after im done healing.THEN im DEAD ,WHY? cause i have no mana to kill them...

NOW if i had bard
1] i would not have gotten attacked by the mob.
2] i could had ran the F*** away
3]i would have enough mana to attack
4]if i dont have enough mana i can just try to use mana cicle=mana back:)

IM DELEVELING ALL MY CLERIC SKILLS AND GETTING BARD ISNTEAD!!!

[XemnasXD]

ok I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE of a rogue cleric and my opinion is...CRAP i use my healing skills to heal my seLf 4-5 times my mana is gonne... if something attacks me after im done healing.THEN im DEAD ,WHY? cause i have no mana to kill them...

NOW if i had bard
1] i would not have gotten attacked by the mob.
2] i could had ran the F*** away
3]i would have enough mana to attack
4]if i dont have enough mana i can just try to use mana cicle=mana back:)

IM DELEVELING ALL MY CLERIC SKILLS AND GETTING BARD ISNTEAD!!!

1. Writing in big colored letters doesn't make your post valuable.
2. YOUR DOING IT WRONG. you use recovery division to gain back health not heal dumbass.
3. Cleric sub is for PvP i already said bard was best for PvE
4. (can you tell im getting pissed now) Your an idiot fo rnot bringing MP pots
5. If your just using rogue skills you shouldn't run out of mana they cost like nothing MP wise so you should've been fine even with low MP


I could go on and on but im going stop there i hope that after reading this you'll realize your a moron. Im surprised you were able to figure out how to use the hot keys (if you have) with a brain as small as yours. And don't think i don't know a troll when i see one im seriously getting sick of Bard-Subclass fanboys jumping down everyones throat for there amazing abilities to run away and keep the mobs off you.....its not badass and it won't help in PvP unless your specialty is running away as fast as possible so stfu and learn how to play the game before you start mouthing off about sh*t you clearly don't know anything about.....

[akuji^]

I like Bard more. First of all I like it because for PvE it is the best sub to have, and for me PvP only get important at higher levels so if the PvE goes good I will be higher level faster . And if I got my strategy right we rogues dont have to get good defence in PvP because we sneak up kill fast and dissappear.

That would be my tactic sorry Xemnas The most important thing for me in PvE is the fact that I die less with noise skill and level faster.

They both have their own advantages but I prefer Bard over Cleric for my style.

[Jstar1]

ok I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE of a rogue cleric and my opinion is...CRAP i use my healing skills to heal my seLf 4-5 times my mana is gonne... if something attacks me after im done healing.THEN im DEAD ,WHY? cause i have no mana to kill them...

NOW if i had bard
1] i would not have gotten attacked by the mob.
2] i could had ran the F*** away
3]i would have enough mana to attack
4]if i dont have enough mana i can just try to use mana cicle=mana back:)

IM DELEVELING ALL MY CLERIC SKILLS AND GETTING BARD ISNTEAD!!!

1. Writing in big colored letters doesn't make your post valuable.
2. YOUR DOING IT WRONG. you use recovery division to gain back health not heal dumbass.
3. Cleric sub is for PvP i already said bard was best for PvE
4. (can you tell im getting pissed now) Your an idiot fo rnot bringing MP pots
5. If your just using rogue skills you shouldn't run out of mana they cost like nothing MP wise so you should've been fine even with low MP


I could go on and on but im going stop there i hope that after reading this you'll realize your a moron. Im surprised you were able to figure out how to use the hot keys (if you have) with a brain as small as yours. And don't think i don't know a troll when i see one im seriously getting sick of Bard-Subclass fanboys jumping down everyones throat for there amazing abilities to run away and keep the mobs off you.....its not badass and it won't help in PvP unless your specialty is running away as fast as possible so stfu and learn how to play the game before you start mouthing off about sh*t you clearly don't know anything about.....

theres a number of people saying that they respect you the most on SRF in the thread at OTL. Don't lose your credibility by stepping on an ignorant person

you made this thread and you made the guide. expect stupid people come begging to you for answers and just answer them or tell them politely to read the guide or something. Your post is not something that I have expected come from you

[XemnasXD]

im not trying to impress anyone and while i do appreciate the fact that ppl here respect me i don't think this post should or would change that. I can't stand ppl who put there opinions in big colored font and think that makes it fact, i think i've flamed everyone that i've seen whose done it so far...it not even that the info was wrong its just such an obnoxious thing to do in a place hwere ppl are trying to learn from each other...

[NightceptoR]

wth bards suck

[torinchibi]

ok I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE of a rogue cleric and my opinion is...CRAP i use my healing skills to heal my seLf 4-5 times my mana is gonne... if something attacks me after im done healing.THEN im DEAD ,WHY? cause i have no mana to kill them...

NOW if i had bard
1] i would not have gotten attacked by the mob.
2] i could had ran the F*** away
3]i would have enough mana to attack
4]if i dont have enough mana i can just try to use mana cicle=mana back:)

IM DELEVELING ALL MY CLERIC SKILLS AND GETTING BARD ISNTEAD!!!

.....Heal 4-5 times.... ugh.... I can heal a pure str warrior using vital increase in 2 level 40 heals when he is 62 using 60 vital increase. With an up to date heal, it's really just 1 time, and you are at full hp. I don't see how using a 1-2k healing skill every 5 mins would make you run out of MP.

Although bard is generally considered the better subclass for PvE a rogue can do pretty well even without a subclass so I don't really see how you can die having a healing subclass...that's ridiculous. Go ahead and use your mana cycle.... I doubt 200mp skills would ever make you run out of mp when you don't even have buffs to give that would take up your mp. It's completely your choice, but don't tell people a subclass sucks when you are unable to use it correctly.

[RockerFellow]

I think even Juey has commented on this that rogue is not a tanker therefore rogue shouldn't go for cleric sub just for the defend buff instead more speed that makes him to level up and grind faster.

[XemnasXD]

In PvP running away and keeping mobs off you will NOT help a dagger rogue...if speed is that important to you buy a potion.

We've been over this Bard is best for Xbow and is best for PvE

Cleric is best for Dagger and is best for PvP


Bard won't help you if you like PvP Cleric won't help much if you like PvE it depends on your playing preference. imo ppl spend to much time lvling up in this game to actually enjoy it, i don't mind lvling a a bit slower and focusing a PvP based build.....

[You_Dead_Yet]

im lv78 rogue with cleric sub and i REALLY like it

mostly for PVP, i do a lot of thiefing and bless saved me many times, and i couldnt play anymore without Recovery Division.

and my sub is only lv64, i cant wait to see the effect of bless skill at higher level!

oh and also, when I thief with my guildies, if we encounter a big group of hunters, the only thing i have to do is switch to Cleric Rod, and buff them with STR/int/def, and bless, and resurrect them when needed.

When grinding I only use Recovery Division and Holy Spell in the cleric tree, but dam Recovery Division does make a big difference, it makes it so the HP always get back to 100% when i dont get hit for a little while, so i dont start at HP 80% to kill 1 mob, im back full most of the time.

[nphillip]

ok I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE of a rogue cleric and my opinion is...CRAP i use my healing skills to heal my seLf 4-5 times my mana is gonne... if something attacks me after im done healing.THEN im DEAD ,WHY? cause i have no mana to kill them...

NOW if i had bard
1] i would not have gotten attacked by the mob.
2] i could had ran the F*** away
3]i would have enough mana to attack
4]if i dont have enough mana i can just try to use mana cicle=mana back:)

IM DELEVELING ALL MY CLERIC SKILLS AND GETTING BARD ISNTEAD!!!

1. Writing in big colored letters doesn't make your post valuable.
2. YOUR DOING IT WRONG. you use recovery division to gain back health not heal dumbass.
3. Cleric sub is for PvP i already said bard was best for PvE
4. (can you tell im getting pissed now) Your an idiot fo rnot bringing MP pots
5. If your just using rogue skills you shouldn't run out of mana they cost like nothing MP wise so you should've been fine even with low MP


I could go on and on but im going stop there i hope that after reading this you'll realize your a moron. Im surprised you were able to figure out how to use the hot keys (if you have) with a brain as small as yours. And don't think i don't know a troll when i see one im seriously getting sick of Bard-Subclass fanboys jumping down everyones throat for there amazing abilities to run away and keep the mobs off you.....its not badass and it won't help in PvP unless your specialty is running away as fast as possible so stfu and learn how to play the game before you start mouthing off about sh*t you clearly don't know anything about.....

theres a number of people saying that they respect you the most on SRF in the thread at OTL. Don't lose your credibility by stepping on an ignorant person

you made this thread and you made the guide. expect stupid people come begging to you for answers and just answer them or tell them politely to read the guide or something. Your post is not something that I have expected come from you

there is so many problems with you XemnasXD that i don't even know where to start. Jstar1 is right. you mentioned several times that this is only a discussion thread, yet someone is giving his opinions (int100kbr) and you comment back saying he has a small brain. I mean, like what Jstar1 said, who would respect someone who doesn't respect other people. When i read that post of yours i found it not only impolite but very rude.

its not badass and it won't help in PvP unless your specialty is running away as fast as possible so stfu and learn how to play the game before you start mouthing off about sh*t you clearly don't know anything about.....

so you say it wont help in PVP unless your specialty is running away as fast as possible. lets put it this way, DAM STRAIGHT. what if my specialty is running away as fast as possible after attacking? dont tell me to stfu and learn how to play, from the attitude of how you write some people might even think you work for Joymax and has experienced playing every type of build there is. i stealth, hit and run as fast as possible.

1. Writing in big colored letters doesn't make your post valuable.

may i ask you some questions? what in the world is wrong with typing in bold/colored writing? why do you think they have it here on SRF so that we could do that? why do you think MS word has it? have you ever writtin essays? i don't care if you haven't but you HAVE posted in SRF haven't you? you have seen people writing in bold haven't you? do you know why people write in bold? do you know what exactly writing something in bold represents? well let me tell you dumbass BOLD IS USED FOR EMPHASIS TO MAKE CERTAIN WORDS AND PHRASES STAND OUT FROM SURROUNDING TEXT. so will you flame me now for writing that in BOLD?

2. YOUR DOING IT WRONG. you use recovery division to gain back health not heal dumbass.

here we go again. calling someone a dumbass, making it sound like your the best and we should all bow in front of you for answers. what Jstar said, "just answer them or tell them politely to read the guide or something" i just hope you didnt mean it when you said it. actually, i really feel sorry for the guy, not only being called a dumbass but having been told having a small brain.

4. (can you tell im getting pissed now) Your an idiot fo rnot bringing MP pots

yes i can tell your getting pissed but i just don't understand why you are getting pissed inside a discussion thread. what he meant was that he didn't have enough MP to use the skills, not he didn't have enough MP pots.. so it was pretty pointless of you to call him an idiot for not bringing pots when its your problem for not reading his words right. just don't forget that euros have 15sec MP pot delay as well.

and just to let you know, i don't have a rogue/bard so don't think i'm going against you.

[torinchibi]

I think even Juey has commented on this that rogue is not a tanker therefore rogue shouldn't go for cleric sub just for the defend buff instead more speed that makes him to level up and grind faster.

I will agree with Juey when I see him use a bless spell potion. Otherwise, bard is so not the best for PvP for neither xBow nor dagger rogues. It is not every day you need to keep mobs off of you during PvP...and again moving march currently < potion.


... and XemnasXD, no point getting angry at stubborn people that don't realize how horrible the bard subclass is in comparison to ... frankly, anything else.
Even if running away is your specialty, people can't seem to figure out that speed potions and bless spell are better than just free speed. Juey may be a great rogue, but in time he too will realize how pointless it is to get bard for 2 buffs 1 of which is sold in the store for reasonable prices...especially if you are high enough to be doing anything other than cape PvP.

[Juey]

Bard is great for fast leveling solo.
Cleric is great for PVP solo.

There are many clerics around.
There not many bards around.

You will most likely have clerics in party to help you when it counts the most, like in guildwar or jobwar, which is the case for me. We have 3 high level clerics in guild when there are only 1 bard. Also aside from the pure clerics, there are many wizards (at least in our guild) that go for cleric sub. They too can bless and ress if needed too.

People mentioned the speed potion in store, I would never buy one, my 80% that lasts for ever, and also can be shared to other people is way better than the 15 minutes 225k 100% in store.

Noise is also great beside from grinding, it keeps agroo mob from hitting on u when you are out jobbing, so that u can go stealth more easier.

At my level in PVP, I can kill most full str 80 sosun not count blader Sosun (3 skills then) in 2 skills, they are lucky if they get 1 hit on me, and I even can survive at least 2 hits from them.

As a rogue, play it right, and you will never get hit. You get in fast, do your thing and ge the hell out as fast as you can, then disappear. You need bard skills for this.

[GlamouR]

yeah i have the same oppion like my guild member juey
because i'm rogue bard too and you have to fight fast in pvp with rogue.
what i mean with that is that you have to kill the enemy as fast as you can that you dont get killed. So if you didnt skill bard and the enemy uses phantom-walk you are dead because until you have switched to xbow if you uses dagger he kills you 2 times or more. So choose bard and run 80% faster, so no chinese char can run away from you and you can stay close to them to kill them easily with dagger.

And i also can only say ROGUE OWNS (thats me)

[bigbamboo]

Glamour Said,

what i mean with that is that you have to kill the enemy as fast as you can that you dont get killed. So if you didnt skill bard and the enemy uses phantom-walk you are dead because until you have switched to xbow if you uses dagger he kills you 2 times or more. So choose bard and run 80% faster, so no chinese char can run away from you and you can stay close to them to kill them easily with dagger.

I agree speed is a virtue.But if ur so worried about pvp,jobs why not run 100% faster instead of 80% and buy a speedpotion..Unlike bard with a Rogue/Cleric Sub u would have superspeed(100%) & Superdefence! Bless,recovery division etc. Now u tell me which is better during pVp or jobs.