pure int S/S Nuker without bicheon.

[Barotix]

I posted this In DJ's topic.

as a pure int nuker you can use both S/S and spear. When snowshield wears down you can use S/S. When snowshield is up use spear for the extra fire power. You need both weapons, as a pure int nuker because you don't have a weapon mastery therefore ,ideally ,you would only be nuking and as such you will want def at those vital times and offence when snowshield is up.

Fire 90
Light 90
Ice 90

You don't need weapon skills or weapon masteries, but I would suggest a +7 Spear, +5 Sword, and +5 Shield with a good BR. That will be your set and you will be a support character not a DPS character.

Pure STR = High DPS
Pure Int = Low DPS

(DPS = Damage Per Second, when DPS is high it means you hit A Lot per Second, when DPS is low it means you don't hit often per second. In situations where DPS is low it usually means your slow firing speed is compensated with a high dmg. For EX: The chinese pure nuker.)

The two builds with the Highest DPS (to date) are the Dual Axe Warrior and Rogue dagger.

Later on as Physical Balance % gets Lower and Magical Balance % gets higher the physical damage won't even make a noticeable difference. Therefore if you're playing for end game (100 cap +) then you can drop weapons.

[RogueKiller]

Don't mean to topic jack (technically, im not xD) but how about the force in fires place? In other words, which would be more beneficial, the force, or fire?

Force can be great but a pure int will still need an imbue.

This whole topic is actually about my character and this is also an issue we're trying to figure out. Since fire makes nukes stronger (right?) Does that mean it doesn't aoe transfer like lightning? I have max lighting embue only because I thought it was the strongest. But no fire embue. I wanna hurt monsters in aoe, will fire embue stop aoe completely? Only thing I could think of was having both fire and lightning embue =S Sorry, this is even confusing to me.

Not exactly.
With fire nukes and imbue the AOE is a bit weaker because it isn't transferring the fire imbue as well. With Light your AOE is stronger when hitting non targeted mobs by splash dmg.

EDIT: With Force you will have a lot more mp as well. Making it easier on snowshield at higher lvls of ice.

[Barotix]

There are more strategies to use as a pure int Nuker in 1v1 other than maintaining a high DPS. Fighting like a pure str character does not do pure ints justice.

[RogueKiller]

There are more strategies to use as a pure int Nuker in 1v1 other than maintaining a high DPS. Fighting like a pure str character does not do pure ints justice.

Disagree. Why?
Because a pure int spear hits harder than a pure str glaiver with the same physical attacks, facing a pure str character of course. At the same time managing a high DPS with possibilities to stop your opponent from attacking is just amazing.

When you can manage 6k then 4k from SSE vs a glaiver who will do 5k then 3k. Thats 10k right there, and it can be better than nuking if you can crit. GSM doing 6-8k can be extremely destructive as well.

[Barotix]

There are more strategies to use as a pure int Nuker in 1v1 other than maintaining a high DPS. Fighting like a pure str character does not do pure ints justice.

Disagree. Why?
Because a pure int spear hits harder than a pure str glaiver with the same physical attacks, facing a pure str character of course. At the same time managing a high DPS with possibilities to stop your opponent from attacking is just amazing.

When you can manage 6k then 4k from SSE vs a glaiver who will do 5k then 3k. Thats 10k right there, and it can be better than nuking if you can crit. GSM doing 6-8k can be extremely destructive as well.

pure int crit = pure str crit. Pure str has more HP, pure int has higher non crit hits, pure str has a higher frequency for crits, and pure int has nukes. The nukes aren't used often and from what I have been able to ascertain the usual finish is: Flame Wave Wide followed by a GSM ~ Death. Thing is a pure force int nuker could do just as well in 1v1 as their weapon mastery counterparts. Thinking outside the box is something I enjoy to do, it will be fun dissecting the possibilities the pure force int nuker brings.

[magisuns]

hmmm this topic makes me wanna make a cold\light\force nuker...and badly ._.;

[RogueKiller]

pure int crit = pure str crit. Pure str has more HP, pure int has higher non crit hits, pure str has a higher frequency for crits, and pure int has nukes. The nukes aren't used often and from what I have been able to ascertain the usual finish is: Flame Wave Wide followed by a GSM ~ Death. Thing is a pure force int nuker could do just as well in 1v1 as their weapon mastery counterparts. Thinking outside the box is something I enjoy to do, it will be fun dissecting the possibilities the pure force int nuker brings.

I have no problem accepting that. However the problem I have with a build that has nukes and has force is something I have never seen. I also couldn't find any videos on it to see what they are capable of. So in the end I can't judge something I haven't seen. Just prove why the others can be better.

[GatoradeR]

Thinking outside the box is something I enjoy to do, it will be fun dissecting the possibilities the pure force int nuker brings.

I agree 100%, and the same applies to me. Being what everyone else is definitely isn't fun, in my opinion.

While I'm not saying anything about anyone, you have to think of the past builds people thought were bogus.

The furthest I'm able to look back to is probably the 70:70 bow deal.Everyone bashed it, and finally someone tried it, and it was so good, it became really close to being a primary bow build (at least for SRFers).

Then there was a 70:70 spear, derived from the bow build.It was bashed as well, and it turns out they were just as good, or even better than a normal pole-type build.Then of course, theres one of the most recent builds, warrior/lock.While there are still some that have their doubts, it's still a great build.

But I DO see how that mistake could be made if you have deep actual in game experience, where theory is probably just as believable as fairy tales. Even so, it wouldn't hurt to try(too much...wow, who am I kidding).

Edit: Btw, the SP needs of this build is insane. It's over 1 million, and that kinda helps what I said in parentheses....not necessarily a good thing though xD

[Swindler]

My opinion is - you gonna suck in pvp

at cSRO all the nukers is fire/lighting/ice nuker and they are pretty good in pvp and same on iSRO it was one girl on eldorado who had this build and she was pretty good to..

Go for it, i will.

[DarkJackal]

My opinion is - you gonna suck in pvp

at cSRO all the nukers is fire/lighting/ice nuker and they are pretty good in pvp and same on iSRO it was one girl on eldorado who had this build and she was pretty good to..

Go for it, i will.

Most screenshots I see on ksro site are nukers with light/ice/fire too.

[Rhe7oric]

From another thread from a person who asked the same question.

Exactly. If you want just nukes all the time, go with a Euro Wizard. Building a Chinese character based on JUST nukes and no weapon masteries is honestly the most stupid thing I've ever heard. You'll be outclassed in pure damage by Wizards, and a Chinese with no weapon skills will die often with no progress to show for it, especially during the lower levels. Additionally, how are you going to get to level 30 (since you only get your nukes from then on)? Lion shout mobs to death?

[Barotix]

From another thread from a person who asked the same question.

Exactly. If you want just nukes all the time, go with a Euro Wizard. Building a Chinese character based on JUST nukes and no weapon masteries is honestly the most stupid thing I've ever heard. You'll be outclassed in pure damage by Wizards, and a Chinese with no weapon skills will die often with no progress to show for it, especially during the lower levels. Additionally, how are you going to get to level 30 (since you only get your nukes from then on)? Lion shout mobs to death?

Theres more to it than just nuking, hmm. I'm going to have to explain my thinking some day.

[DarkJackal]

Yea, theres a big diff between a wiz and Int Nuker, for one you may want nukes and not die in 1 shot >.>, be able to pot, and just not be Euro ;d.

[Rhe7oric]

But, what other attacks can he use? If he leaves his Bicheon mastery at 0, he will have no physical attacks whatsoever; making leveling from 1 to 30 next to impossible since there you mostly rely on basic chains and some lion shouts thrown in to help you get by mobs, unless he just imbues and uses the default attack of hack n' slash I suppose. The force mastery trees focus primarily on nukes, and I assume thats what he will use as main attacks. Its perfectly fine if he can somehow get powerleveled from 1 to 30, but if he is going through those low levels solo, what then? Do you honestly expect him to just use ONLY lion shout to get by mobs?

If thats the case, he is better off just going Wizard since thats what their attacks are all about in the first place; pure nukes, and they start off with them at a real early level rather than getting them later on in the game.

Generally, you can get away by having a low level force tree; like for Pure STR whatever having Ice at a low level because you already have great physical defense and Fire high to shore up Pure STR characters low magical defense; or conversely for an Int Build having Fire low because Light is your main imbue and has transfer damage, and having Ice at a high level to make up for low physical defense but high magical defense; but having NO Weapon masteries is something you cannot get away with for a Chinese character since its attacks are a combination of physical and magical attacks unlike Euros where its only one way or the other. However, a low level weapon mastery you might be able to get away with because at least then you have something to fall back on rather than nothing should your nukes be blocked or hit too low. But having NO weapon mastery is not logical and if that is your actual plan for your character, you're better off going for a Pure INT European Wizard UNLESS you have the cash to delevel a weapon mastery once you reach level 30 and are fully farmed.

Other than that, I don't see how you can pull that off.

[RogueKiller]

Yea, theres a big diff between a wiz and Int Nuker, for one you may want nukes and not die in 1 shot >.>, be able to pot, and just not be Euro ;d.

Ya big difference.
In ksro the pure force nukers aren't one hit kills. On the other hand euros wizards on ksro are pretty sad, they get 1 hit and fall over if theyre unbuffed by a full euro party.

[Barotix]

But, what other attacks can he use? If he leaves his Bicheon mastery at 0, he will have no physical attacks whatsoever; making leveling from 1 to 30 next to impossible since there you mostly rely on basic chains and some lion shouts thrown in to help you get by mobs, unless he just imbues and uses the default attack of hack n' slash I suppose. The force mastery trees focus primarily on nukes, and I assume thats what he will use as main attacks. Its perfectly fine if he can somehow get powerleveled from 1 to 30, but if he is going through those low levels solo, what then? Do you honestly expect him to just use ONLY lion shout to get by mobs?
<snip>

....

1] Leveling isn't a problem. The maximum weapon mastery you need for a pure int no weapon nuker is level 7 bow mastery. The skills you require are the Anti-Devil and Bow Combo. This can get you to 30 as you'll get the bulk of your damage from the light imbue, I say light because you want speed. From 1-30 it will be bow mastery at 7 and light mastery parallel with your real level. This isn't rocket Science.

2] Fighting isn't hard, when you're in an Ice or Fire Wall of equivalent level you can't be KBed or KDed, you can't be stunned either. There goes your OPPs ability to interrupt your skills. Another factor is the power and speed of lionshouts, 2 or 3 consecutive lionshouts is equivalent to one light nuke (if not greater), you can keep your DPS high with lionshouts as it takes 1/2 second to launch one. The wall at 90 cap has a 10 second cool down and absorbs 83% of the damage it also adds an extra 13.7k HP on top of your and own sustaining the wall cost only 685 mp per 5 seconds. You can have a wall up the whole fight and take down your opponent before they take you down. You'll do far higher dmg than you do now at the current cap, and you hit damn hard.

13k ~> 6k+5k+4k ~> Death, most battles will be quick if you play your cards right and this is only accounting for 1v1.

[RogueKiller]

2] Fighting isn't hard, when you're in an Ice or Fire Wall of equivalent level you can't be KBed or KDed, you can't be stunned either. There goes your OPPs ability to interrupt your skills. Another factor is the power and speed of lionshouts, 2 or 3 consecutive lionshouts is equivalent to one light nuke (if not greater), you can keep your DPS high with lionshouts as it takes 1/2 second to launch one. The wall at 90 cap has a 10 second cool down and absorbs 83% of the damage it also adds an extra 13.7k HP on top of your and own sustaining the wall cost only 685 mp per 5 seconds. You can have a wall up the whole fight and take down your opponent before they take you down. You'll do far higher dmg than you do now at the current cap, and you hit damn hard.

What happens when you take down fire wall or ice wall? The nuker needs to spend some time bringing the ice/ fire wall up which takes a bit of time. In that time it is very easy to stun or kd someone. To keep putting the ice wall up is complete waste of time and neither of the players are getting anywhere.

13k ~> 6k+5k+4k ~> Death, most battles will be quick if you play your cards right and this is only accounting for 1v1.

Nukers don't do that much dmg without Sun.
The dmg there would be along the lines of:
9k~>4k+3k+2k~>18k
However if your spending time bringing your snow shield up each time it goes down the pure str will be fully healed. Moreover it doesn't take more than 3 hits to take down a fully maxed out ice wall.

In the 18k dmg you dealt only about 10k-12 is getting through. The rest is just healed from time due to X-L pots.

Edit: I will try a bit harder this time to find a nuker without a skill tree.

[Barotix]

2] Fighting isn't hard, when you're in an Ice or Fire Wall of equivalent level you can't be KBed or KDed, you can't be stunned either. There goes your OPPs ability to interrupt your skills. Another factor is the power and speed of lionshouts, 2 or 3 consecutive lionshouts is equivalent to one light nuke (if not greater), you can keep your DPS high with lionshouts as it takes 1/2 second to launch one. The wall at 90 cap has a 10 second cool down and absorbs 83% of the damage it also adds an extra 13.7k HP on top of your and own sustaining the wall cost only 685 mp per 5 seconds. You can have a wall up the whole fight and take down your opponent before they take you down. You'll do far higher dmg than you do now at the current cap, and you hit damn hard.

What happens when you take down fire wall or ice wall? The nuker needs to spend some time bringing the ice/ fire wall up which takes a bit of time. In that time it is very easy to stun or kd someone. To keep putting the ice wall up is complete waste of time and neither of the players are getting anywhere.

13k ~> 6k+5k+4k ~> Death, most battles will be quick if you play your cards right and this is only accounting for 1v1.

<snip>
However if your spending time bringing your snow shield up each time it goes down the pure str will be fully healed. Moreover it doesn't take more than 3 hits to take down a fully maxed out ice wall.
<snip>

Edit: I will try a bit harder this time to find a nuker without a skill tree.

I'm not posting from an 80 cap PoV at 80 cap each wall adds only 9.7k HP. At 90 cap each wall adds 13.7k, its been awhile since I played chinese can you have both walls running at the same time? Verify this and then I'll have a confirmation of a good build. (hell, now I'm starting to want to use this build oO).

[RogueKiller]

I'm not posting from an 80 cap PoV at 80 cap each wall adds only 9.7k HP. At 90 cap each wall adds 13.7k, its been awhile since I played chinese can you have both walls running at the same time? Verify this and then I'll have a confirmation of a good build. (hell, now I'm starting to want to use this build oO).

Nope you can't have both walls at once.
Moreover that 13k hp of the wall does go down fast.
As for video:
Code: Select all

Its a fail.
I'll try finding more to get a wider point of view other than the film maker but it does show the essential points I made along with others

[Barotix]

I'm not posting from an 80 cap PoV at 80 cap each wall adds only 9.7k HP. At 90 cap each wall adds 13.7k, its been awhile since I played chinese can you have both walls running at the same time? Verify this and then I'll have a confirmation of a good build. (hell, now I'm starting to want to use this build oO).

Nope you can't have both walls at once.
Moreover that 13k hp of the wall does go down fast.

<snip>

That nuker didn't fight well and had weapon skills. He also didn't use snow-shield until it appeared death was imminent. Thats more of a Light/Ice/Bicheon nuker gone bad.

--------------------------

Interesting.

It takes ~3 seconds to set up the wall and ~3 seconds to nuke. It takes <1/2 second to launch a lionshout. It takes a maximum of 3 atks to break the wall and a minimum of one crit. The DPS str builds can push out is high and the shield is a one time deal.

The int side has 3 seconds to set up the wall and in those 3 seconds there is a possibility of KD, KB, and Stun.

It takes <1/2 second to cast a phantom but the atks still register during this time.

You have 2 minutes of high absorption snowshield and you use S&S as well as the Spear. The S&S has an assured level of block and the Spear brings the damage.

There are two types of walls, fire which absorbs int dmg and ice which absorbs str damage. These walls cannot be stacked, but can be used back to back.

There are three playing styles:
1] The stand-still, this build consist of standing in one place and holding a strong defense and maximizing DPS.
2] The cat&mouse, this build focuses on keeping a distance between himself and the Opp in order to minimize damage taken.
3] The mix, this one uses both cat&mouse and stand-still. Maximizing agility and defense, keeping the Opp on their edge and taking command of the battle. Forcing them to move in occordance to what you do.

You have no weapon skills and only have magice skills.

What to do, hmm ~ There is more to this than what is seen on the surface. I just need to think about this more.

-----------------------------

Conclusion: Calling this build fail or impossible based on shoddy videos/theory won't work here. Like all builds there are holes in its offense and defense, simply because holes exist doesn't mean the build is weak/flawed/impossible/fail.

Conclusion: Inconclusive, based on past and current data as well as the performance of other builds it is safe to say this build can do well given the right circumstances. Like all other builds the pure int nuker has its place, that place is large scale battles. It can be applied to small-scale but I wouldn't be making this build with Cape-PvP in mind or the 1v1 confrontation. Besides Joymax will Kill the 1v1 soon enough ~

[Spader]

Waow. Barotix, you just blew my mind. I'm so using this build.

PssssT I think you won the argument

[nohunta]

Get 20 BR

[alcoholic]

Get 20 BR

Every thing Rogue says is true i agree 100%

@Barotix
why not do high damage + high dps?
90 cap
90 weapon
90 light
90 ice
30 fire

The all Force build does the same damage with lightning nuke.
you have to TIME your nukes with your weapon skills to do HDPS.
having all force 90 fire 90 light 90 ice you really need a strong weapon to make up for the low dps.

[Rozelady]

I'm not posting from an 80 cap PoV at 80 cap each wall adds only 9.7k HP. At 90 cap each wall adds 13.7k, its been awhile since I played chinese can you have both walls running at the same time? Verify this and then I'll have a confirmation of a good build. (hell, now I'm starting to want to use this build oO).

Nope you can't have both walls at once.
Moreover that 13k hp of the wall does go down fast.
As for video:
Code: Select all

Its a fail.
I'll try finding more to get a wider point of view other than the film maker but it does show the essential points I made along with others

First check Rev6 the Int sword is 73 and the blader is 77/means77-80

[RogueKiller]

I'm not posting from an 80 cap PoV at 80 cap each wall adds only 9.7k HP. At 90 cap each wall adds 13.7k, its been awhile since I played chinese can you have both walls running at the same time? Verify this and then I'll have a confirmation of a good build. (hell, now I'm starting to want to use this build oO).

Nope you can't have both walls at once.
Moreover that 13k hp of the wall does go down fast.
As for video:
<Video>

Its a fail.
I'll try finding more to get a wider point of view other than the film maker but it does show the essential points I made along with others

First check Rev6 the Int sword is 73 and the blader is 77/means77-80

The video is a bit old. So one could have lvled while the other is farming or a larger array of things may have happened in the time being. One may have stopped playing etc...

[Rozelady]

k

[Qosta420]

My opinion is - you gonna suck in pvp

i agree but let me explain why. Bicheon is essential even for a pure int if only for the status chain and the kd+stab as well as the passive.

firstly the chain deals alot of damage quick and if you get status on someone then they are pretty much fked

knockdown and stab is essential primarily because of its defensive use. when your a full int and you get down to your last 1k of health easily (especiealy as an s/s) then the knockdown can be a saver as it allows you to deal damage without having damage delt on you (because they are knocked down) thus you can repot and continue fighting. in a circumstance of which you would normaly be dead. thus knockdown greatly increases your lifespan in pvp as well as when your grinding because if you get in a sticky situation (ie mobbed by party giants) you can simply doe the Aoe KD and run your @ss off till your safe.

and the passive is essential because it also increases your survivability rate because of your increased BR.

I would not make an S/S char without a plan to have my Bicheon capped. and thus i would STRONGLY (as a primarily s/s nuker player) DISCOURAGE your use of this build.

-hope my insight helps

[Sacchin]

Well my build is 90/90/90/30 (For 90 nukes and just a little hp boost, no weapon skills) Or will be. pvp is Zzzz. Earlier I pk'd Jackal while he was afk (Unintentionally..), fully geared up with auto pots on. 5-7k to 13k dmg. He's 80 and I'm 68. Soooooo this build is not all that phail imo >_>..


p.s. Ignoring the topic title. I'm spear.

[DarkJackal]

Gawd just tell everyone ._. lol.

[Barotix]

Well my build is 90/90/90/30 (For 90 nukes and just a little hp boost, no weapon skills) Or will be. pvp is Zzzz. Earlier I pk'd Jackal while he was afk (Unintentionally..), fully geared up with auto pots on. 5-7k to 13k dmg. He's 80 and I'm 68. Soooooo this build is not all that phail imo >_>..


p.s. Ignoring the topic title. I'm spear.

Don't rely on just spear, use both s/s and spear. Since you're weaponless you can switch between weapons as the situation calls and the s/s will be the predominate weapon for support and survival, spear is for high hits when you know you can't get hit.