Official Rogue Subclass Discussion

[Redd]

i say cleric becuz; the fact of being a cleric is just very usefull and getting into parties will be MUCH easier. The hp buffs make up for the loss when u use Desperate Daggers or Xtreme Xbow. And if u can time it right u will be able to heal yourself in the heat of battle; making u nearly invincible.

cleric dont have any hp increasing skills...thats a warrior skill....if you're talking about the str buffs and int buffs, you cant use them on yourself and they go away once you switch to xbow or dagger....anyway that just proves that rogue/cleric cannot increase its hp.....made my point

[ahmedsabry]

i say cleric becuz; the fact of being a cleric is just very usefull and getting into parties will be MUCH easier. The hp buffs make up for the loss when u use Desperate Daggers or Xtreme Xbow. And if u can time it right u will be able to heal yourself in the heat of battle; making u nearly invincible.

cleric dont have any hp increasing skills...thats a warrior skill....if you're talking about the str buffs and int buffs, you cant use them on yourself and they go away once you switch to xbow or dagger....anyway that just proves that rogue/cleric cannot increase its hp.....made my point

he never said they INCREASE hp.. he meant the hp HEALING spells.
they dont make up for DD/XE though.. actually nothing does. u use DD/XE, then dont expects to take hits and stay alive

[Verfo]

for my rouge i would go with warlock mainly because, i can debuff, stun, sleep then switch to draggers i dd then prick, thats 100% guaranteed kill. and if there is a group at least you can stun 1 or 2 of them, sleep 1 or 2 of them then you can kill the rest and go back to the stunned ones then the sleep once.

[sinruss]

I don't know if this has been brought to discussion yet , but if not , i'm happy to share it .
I thought about it a little bit and with 90 cap coming i have an idea of using 70 lvl of cleric and 20 of bard , sure this won't allow me to stun in pvp with cleric nor bard , but i like it so much more , 30% speed increase , and 1000+ hp from RD is enough for me.
I heard that recovery division's capacity of HoT has a lot to do of the magical attack of the cleric rod , that being said it should be very usefull to have a low lwl mastery and a high lvl weapon .

[sinruss]

i say cleric becuz; the fact of being a cleric is just very usefull and getting into parties will be MUCH easier. The hp buffs make up for the loss when u use Desperate Daggers or Xtreme Xbow. And if u can time it right u will be able to heal yourself in the heat of battle; making u nearly invincible.

cleric dont have any hp increasing skills...thats a warrior skill....if you're talking about the str buffs and int buffs, you cant use them on yourself and they go away once you switch to xbow or dagger....anyway that just proves that rogue/cleric cannot increase its hp.....made my point

he never said they INCREASE hp.. he meant the hp HEALING spells.
they dont make up for DD/XE though.. actually nothing does. u use DD/XE, then dont expects to take hits and stay alive

Actually healing cycle does , that if they don't crit u very often , i find it easy to withstand a bower my lvl with RD and healing cycle and i did withstand bigger bowers , but the sun botter critted me 4 times ^^.

[ahmedsabry]

yea.. the main problem with tanking with "high defence-low health" is criticals.. and u do get a hell lot of those without a shield!

[ahmedsabry]

i was thinking bout something lately
will a (40 Cleric/ 50 Warlock) sub work in the 90 cap?
u get rec. division and bless (which wont be so strong but will do), and lv 50 debuffs and stunns (which wont be very strong, but they will be more than enough, having in mind that 90 warlock might be overkill)

[raphaell666]

i was thinking bout something lately
will a (40 Cleric/ 50 Warlock) sub work in the 90 cap?
u get rec. division and bless (which wont be so strong but will do), and lv 50 debuffs and stunns (which wont be very strong, but they will be more than enough, having in mind that 90 warlock might be overkill)

Your de-buffs would not work with only 50 warlock, on ppl lvl 90. The debuffs would be overally at lvl 5, while they would need to be lvl9 to really work properly on monsters/people lvl 90. And the healing and buffing from your cleric lvl 40 would completely suck. Either you get one subclass, or just dont waste your time getting halved subclasses.

[ahmedsabry]

i thought the 80% thingy was constant..
i guess that does it for any triple build at all

[carnage]

go sub bard for lvl fast with speed and noise, and in party with guard tambour then when u got a good lvl 80-90 get sub cleric, sub warlock for a rogue???na cuz rogue already have a good damage, rogue need defence^^

[lolthatstheshit]

Attention All Rogues Rogues Are Solo Characters not Party Players... So there is no need for being a cleric.. Therefore Warlock is da best sub-class

its da best

[dredogol]

Okay, I just joined SRF today (woohoo), but I have several questions after reading around the forums:

1) "Can" a Rogue/Cleric beat a Chinese Glaive character?
2) Would you consider a Rogue/Cleric to be more of a PvP/PvM (support) build type?
3) Would you consider a Rogue/Bard to be more of a PvM (support/solo) build type?
(Honestly, I prefer R/C build type )

4) Which would you consider to be the "easiest" PvM char build (Euro/CH)?
5) Which would you consider to be the "easiest" PvP char build (Euro/CH)?

I honestly prefer the PvP builds, because it's more fun to do Jobs / PvP (IMO).
I really haven't gone beyond level 20 before, so I'm gona need some good tips on the Rogue/Cleric build type.

- Thanks for any answers to my questions

[Redwire]

I think both arguments are proper...but the fact that people say "rogues with bard levels faster" is not entirely truthful.

Cleric allows you the ability to fight higher level monsters with recovery division, healing cycle and bless without a 8 man party meaning you are fighting higher level monsters and getting High XP whereas you've got the opposite with bard, fighting monsters within a range of your level fast with average XP.

Cleric/Rogues are rogues on steroids. Bards are cool too, I like noise and moving march, they seem to help alot when I'm fighting but having tried both rogue with both bard and cleric, I prefer cleric.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEWGz7fRnQs&feature=user
This video shows a level 66 rogue with a +2 crossbow 9 percent physical fighting level 74's with just Crossbow Extreme, no bard or cleric buffs(even though he has a cleric shield on his bar). However, in the video he is taking advantage of the Niya Snipers where they have to "position" themselves before they actually attack instead of attacking from the get go....but it wouldn't be THAT much different from fighting other monsters, the monster would stop attacking once he knocks back anyways.

That video is without cleric, if you DID have cleric you'd have an advantage on monsters even if they DIDN'T have the positional fighting like the Niya Sniper's.

If you're daggers then I'd go bard just for the sake of being slow as hell without it, crossbow doesn't need to run around very fast because they attack from far away and let the enemy come to them instead of you going to the enemy.

This is my concept on rogues while leveling...end game pvp, my opinion is that whether you're a crossbow or dagger, you should be cleric or warlock so you can PVP against more than one person without having the need of a party and you'll still be prominent at your rogue even while you're in a party.

I hope this clears the air about some questions, if I'm wrong feel free to flame me =].

[ahmedsabry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEWGz7fRnQs&feature=user
This video shows a level 66 rogue with a +2 crossbow 9 percent physical fighting level 74's with just Crossbow Extreme, no bard or cleric buffs(even though he has a cleric shield on his bar). However, in the video he is taking advantage of the Niya Snipers where they have to "position" themselves before they actually attack instead of attacking from the get go....but it wouldn't be THAT much different from fighting other monsters, the monster would stop attacking once he knocks back anyways.

That video is without cleric, if you DID have cleric you'd have an advantage on monsters even if they DIDN'T have the positional fighting like the Niya Sniper's.

.[/color]

i grind on GENERALS on lv 68 with my Xbow/bard (although i'm gonna dlvl bard for cleric)
ur range is insane.. the slow moving generals usually die b4 they even reach u, and even if they do.. u can still take a hit or two and stay alive (XE on all the time ofcourse)

[Redwire]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEWGz7fRnQs&feature=user
This video shows a level 66 rogue with a +2 crossbow 9 percent physical fighting level 74's with just Crossbow Extreme, no bard or cleric buffs(even though he has a cleric shield on his bar). However, in the video he is taking advantage of the Niya Snipers where they have to "position" themselves before they actually attack instead of attacking from the get go....but it wouldn't be THAT much different from fighting other monsters, the monster would stop attacking once he knocks back anyways.

That video is without cleric, if you DID have cleric you'd have an advantage on monsters even if they DIDN'T have the positional fighting like the Niya Sniper's.

.[/color]

i grind on GENERALS on lv 68 with my Xbow/bard (although i'm gonna dlvl bard for cleric)
ur range is insane.. the slow moving generals usually die b4 they even reach u, and even if they do.. u can still take a hit or two and stay alive (XE on all the time ofcourse)

What I meant was, with cleric you could probably go higher than even that xD

[Movio]

Rogue/warlock

if u like Pvp and big amounts of damage

http://www.silkroadforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=92310

[weymouthhall]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=raTIeTJrbxY
I personally go warrior with rogue as a sub, on the contrary
Above is a small reason why

[Glockshna]

your getting annoying.....there are more cleric skillz that you can cast on yourself and will not go away than there are skillz for the bard class.....bless alone makes it amazing you don't choose cleric for the offensive buffs you choose it for the defensive ones. And just for your information i have a friend who subs cleric and is a rogue im not sure if he's hybrid but i know that he can stand in for a cleric if we ever need one badly. Your to full of your own opinions with nothing to back it up but an aggressive pretentious personality.

+1

I think that Rogue/Warlock would be the best, As warlocks have many Debuffs that will increase your damage and if you're in a tight situation it can stand in as an inefficient cleric. So in other words when your in a tight situation switch to Warlock Rod and Shield then hit blood sucking skills, then hit Stun/Sleep, then DeBuffs, then switch back to Dagger/Xbow and finish the opponent off weather it be a giant or another player. I'm not sure, I'm still farming my Rogue/Cleric but i think there are DeBuffs that increase the critical chance which is a major ++ for Rogues as their crits are legendary.

For Rogue/Bard I have experience in this build (up to level 50) and it worked out quite well, i could walk into a crowd of aggressive monsters ad be confidant that i will not get Gang Raped, As for the speed thats just a little extra thing that makes it just that much better.

For Rogue/Cleric I have no personal experience but I don't like it, I'm a Solo player and in most cases the cleric heals wouldn't do much good for me as they don't heal even a 4h of my HP therefor, i would have to spam heal skill which i don't have the MP to do. Although Recovery Division is a nice perk it doesn't make up for the lack of speed, and that possibility of getting Gang Raped. So going AFK as a Rogue/Cleric is, well, Not.

For Rogue/Warrior, I see no point, no warrior buff sticks with you after you switch weapons, it deals low damage and has no skills that add statuses that a Rogue alone couldn't add Other than Shield Thrash which can get you out of some stickey situations, But if you go back to Bard you can get 2 times farther away in the same time without having to cancel CE or DD in the process so I see no point in it.

For Rogue/Wizard, I think that it's a build that has absolutely no benefit as with the Rogue/Warrior build, the only possible benefit that i could see from this is, Teleport which acts like Ghost Walk for Chinese, except it doesn't go as far. Bad Idea in my opinion.

Hope i helped, and made a useful contribution to the Discussion.

[ahmedsabry]

u said u cant go afk in rogue/cleric.. and by afk u meant.....?
warrior sub IS good.. look at the video 2 post above
warlock sub.. well, i guess u've seen phunkism !
bard.. u can take that ill u reach the cap at most, just for lvling up easier.. but is no real sub as u can get speed scrolls to do its job as effectively

[Pham]

u said u cant go afk in rogue/cleric.. and by afk u meant.....?
warrior sub IS good.. look at the video 2 post above
warlock sub.. well, i guess u've seen phunkism !
bard.. u can take that ill u reach the cap at most, just for lvling up easier.. but is no real sub as u can get speed scrolls to do its job as effectively

he meant u cant go afk as in botting afk, but he wont admit it

[ahmedsabry]

u said u cant go afk in rogue/cleric.. and by afk u meant.....?
warrior sub IS good.. look at the video 2 post above
warlock sub.. well, i guess u've seen phunkism !
bard.. u can take that ill u reach the cap at most, just for lvling up easier.. but is no real sub as u can get speed scrolls to do its job as effectively

he meant u cant go afk as in botting afk, but he wont admit it

yup

[XemnasXD]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=raTIeTJrbxY
I personally go warrior with rogue as a sub, on the contrary
Above is a small reason why

Thats a Warrior/Rogue. Rogue is the sub-class and while Rogue is a great subclass for those who play as warriors, ppl who play as rogues need something to boost those skills. There is a difference in playing style.

[ahmedsabry]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=raTIeTJrbxY
I personally go warrior with rogue as a sub, on the contrary
Above is a small reason why

Thats a Warrior/Rogue. Rogue is the sub-class and while Rogue is a great subclass for those who play as warriors, ppl who play as rogues need something to boost those skills. There is a difference in playing style.

1- welcome back XemnasXD
2-nice Sig
3- +1
4-the warrior/rogue build has other downsides other than mainly focusing on the warrior skills.. the build takes some insane amount of sp, maybe more than any other build in the game.u also spend crazy amounts of gold buying 4 weapons and shield. finally the build lacks real subclass support.. u dont rely have any buffs there (even iron/mana skin isnt so reliable cuz u'll lose it on switching). i also dont fancy the fact of getting a complete master just to KD while u can just do it better with a crossbow having bless on. the build is still gr8 imo..

[ahmedsabry]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=raTIeTJrbxY
I personally go warrior with rogue as a sub, on the contrary
Above is a small reason why

Thats a Warrior/Rogue. Rogue is the sub-class and while Rogue is a great subclass for those who play as warriors, ppl who play as rogues need something to boost those skills. There is a difference in playing style.

1- welcome back XemnasXD
2-nice Sig
3- +1
4-the warrior/rogue build has other downsides other than mainly focusing on the warrior skills.. the build takes some insane amount of sp, maybe more than any other build in the game.u also spend crazy amounts of gold buying 4 weapons and shield. finally the build lacks real subclass support.. u dont rely have any buffs there (even iron/mana skin isnt so reliable cuz u'll lose it on switching). i also dont fancy the fact of getting a complete mastery just to KD while u can just do it better with a crossbow having bless on. the build is still gr8 imo..

[weymouthhall]

Yes, I do agree that you can use xbow to knock down your opponents in order to apply dagger attack. But against good glaivers with honor buffs, 90 ice, protectors full blue sets, premium ++, dagger damages just wont do enough to finish the job, thats why I used warrior most of the time in my pvp to deal massive damages first, then switch back to dagger for the finishing jobs. Xbow just wont do enough damages, just to knock down, its not that useful in pvp.
And rogue, they are only formidable the most with dagger desperate or xbow xtreme on. Dagger desperate reduce 75% over mag and phy defense, xbow reduce half hp and 40% phy defense. Even with a cleric bless spell on, your opponent can easily kill you off while u are using DD or Xtreme.
Dagger desperate should ONLY BE USED when you know for sure that your opponent wont be able to retaliate and fight back, which, knock down is the best option available. Xbow xtreme, with half hp decrease and 40% phy defense decrease should only be used sparingly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWAmhiqBEjI
Above is a rogue cleric that used cleric trap skill called "heaven glare" to trap his glaiver opponent then run away to turn on xbow xtreme and then start hitting. Thats a very dangerous way to use xbow, since the trap skill can only last 10 secs, with casting time, run away time, turn on xbow xtreme wil only allow you 5 secs at best to hit your opponent. What if the opponent turn on snow wall while he/ she is being trapped?? It wil absorb the best hit, which is distance shot. After that, you are greatly vulnerable to strength char's attacks, especially glaivers, which have great damage per second rate. Besides,they start selling vigor grains at npc now, so im sure most of elite chinese chars will use those as well, which will make them much harder to kill.
I'm making a new clip showcasing a few rare applications of xbow and xbow xtreme in pvp, so you guys can understand better when to use it .
And yes, this build does require a lot of sp and a lot of time pimping since it can have up to 5 different weapons

[ahmedsabry]

Yes, I do agree that you can use xbow to knock down your opponents in order to apply dagger attack. But against good glaivers with honor buffs, 90 ice, protectors full blue sets, premium ++, dagger damages just wont do enough to finish the job, thats why I used warrior most of the time in my pvp to deal massive damages first, then switch back to dagger for the finishing jobs. Xbow just wont do enough damages, just to knock down, its not that useful in pvp.
And rogue, they are only formidable the most with dagger desperate or xbow xtreme on. Dagger desperate reduce 75% over mag and phy defense, xbow reduce half hp and 40% phy defense. Even with a cleric bless spell on, your opponent can easily kill you off while u are using DD or Xtreme.
Dagger desperate should ONLY BE USED when you know for sure that your opponent wont be able to retaliate and fight back, which, knock down is the best option available. Xbow xtreme, with half hp decrease and 40% phy defense decrease should only be used sparingly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWAmhiqBEjI
Above is a rogue cleric that used cleric trap skill called "heaven glare" to trap his glaiver opponent then run away to turn on xbow xtreme and then start hitting. Thats a very dangerous way to use xbow, since the trap skill can only last 10 secs, with casting time, run away time, turn on xbow xtreme wil only allow you 5 secs at best to hit your opponent. What if the opponent turn on snow wall while he/ she is being trapped?? It wil absorb the best hit, which is distance shot. After that, you are greatly vulnerable to strength char's attacks, especially glaivers, which have great damage per second rate. Besides,they start selling vigor grains at npc now, so im sure most of elite chinese chars will use those as well, which will make them much harder to kill.
I'm making a new clip showcasing a few rare applications of xbow and xbow xtreme in pvp, so you guys can understand better when to use it .
And yes, this build does require a lot of sp and a lot of time pimping since it can have up to 5 different weapons

totally agree.. thats why i'm a rogue/warlock!
anyway u can combine heaven glare with bles spell AND most importantly.. "healing Cycle".
this spell very much goes under rated cuz it only works for 16 seconds.. however as little as this time is, it is very much enough for u to perform the KD+MW combo after already dealing some huge damage with ur xbow with XE. "Healing Cycle and/or Orbit"+Bless Spell guarantees u stay alive for at least 3-4 hits from a strong glavier given u have some good light armor set on. Ofcourse the warrior/rogue does the combo better, but thats not the only trick a rogue/cleric has in his pocket is it?
anyway, i noticed something wierd lately.. read the description of "Screw" from the dagger tree. it says "opponent which fails to withstand the thrust gets "KNOCKED DOWN" ! i guess JM found out daggers would be overpowered then so they just changed it into stun

[_Sir_Thalas_]

I had both:

Xbow/Bard:
Pros:
Speed: useful anytime
Noise: useful when using XE or DD, because makes normal and party normal moobs be away

Xbow/cleric:
Pros:
Healing cycle: help with the lack of Hp when using XE or DD.
Holy word: useful in pvp against warlocks and mobs

I say that if you like solo, choose Xbow/bard.
If you like pvp and job, choose Xbow/warlock

Remember, Rouge are powerful cause they are unstoppable. The only that can stop you is a warlock (stun or sleep), so save you from warlocks, get cleric.

[B-Ace]

Well i think rogue/bard or rogue/warlock are more usefull ..

rogue/bard you can hunt very good solo and you wont die cause all the aggro mobs wont gang bang you and with the speed it makes more fun to play

I dont get the point os using rogue/cleric since you can only really use recovery division and bless which are usefull in pve (pvp is an other story)
why bless ? well you can tank for 45 sec while you have DD or Extrem Bow on you after that you have to turn them off..
i have a rogue/bard myself and can tanks same lvl giants without DD so i dont get the point of using bless ?
i prefer noise than for not being gang bang in a monster crowd
recovery division ? well since you can use vigor pots (you can even buy that now) its ALMOST the same... well i said almost

so i better prefer high speed + not being gang banged !
cleric might be better in pvp but well you almost one hit your enemys befor they can reach you !

rogue/warlock .. well i never had tried that build but i can think it rocks in pvp

[muyo]

rogue is an interesting class indeed surely cannot tank alot?

ahmedsabry, u seem have a lot of exp with rogue build. Since u delevel bard to cleric and then change to warlock,in your personal opinion,which sub can help rogue to survive more?

[Ash]

grrrrrrrrrrr . after reading 7 pages now i'm totally confused . i'ono which sup shall i go now !!!!

i have some comments though

1-pvp is a total different experience than guild wars , ctf or FW (from my point of view)so this game isn't about pvp after all

2-for those who seek surviving & tanking stay away from the rogue build . if you want tanking go warrior/cleric or blader .

-------------------------------------------

IMO rogue is the pure str nuker . it's one of the most versatile builds . i mean you can go tanker with the help of a cleric of course . or open DD or extreme & be a dmg dealer. alone w/o any sub classes it's awesome as it is . but since you have a mastery levels you can benefit from it anyway .

to sum what i read

cleric --> team support/tanking
warlock -> pvp
bard ----> pve

now all i need is an opinion from a full farmed level 90 player who has an experience with one of those 3 builds ^_^