read on rogue/bard and warrior/cleric

[Lust4Toma]

so.. im making a rogue/bard and my friend is making warrior/cleric. we usually always theif together and things like that. should i keep bard or switch to cleric. we also have another friend that is warlock/bard but shes not quite the most reliable. so waht should i do?

[toastedsock]

As a rogue you don't really even need a subclass but bard might be nice because if you use stealth then your movement speed takes a big hit so you might be able to cancel that out with moving march. I don't think that the cleric sub would be a good choice for a rogue, seems like it would be pretty useless to me.

[bigbamboo]

ToastedSock said,

As a rogue you don't really even need a subclass but bard might be nice because if you use stealth then your movement speed takes a big hit so you might be able to cancel that out with moving march. I don't think that the cleric sub would be a good choice for a rogue, seems like it would be pretty useless to me.

Cleric=Pretty useless?

*grabs a hammer and *

Do u even know what beneficial skills a cleric subclass would have?

No euro class desperately needs a subclass,but a subclass does make you stronger or less dependable on others in all situations.

[toastedsock]

Ok apparently I'm either really bad at explaining my self or people don't read my posts. What I said was "I don't think that the cleric sub would be a good choice for a rogue, seems like it would be pretty useless to me." One it was an opinion, two I have cleric as a sub with my warrior, and three a rogue, if you get xbow and daggers, is already a very versatile character. As a rogue the point isn't to be the best party character that you can be. What I think rogues are good at is thieving, pvp, and soloing. Getting the cleric sub wouldn't help with those things bard, however, might.

[BloodOwnzzz]

Cleric sub IS PRETTY USELESS for Rogue. I'd rather be able to run away fast then get my ass kicked while running away. Either way if you are KBed or kept in place in any way, you will be dead to more than 1 person who isn't completely retarded.

[bigbamboo]

One it was an opinion, two I have cleric as a sub with my warrior, and three a rogue, if you get xbow and daggers, is already a very versatile character. As a rogue the point isn't to be the best party character that you can be. What I think rogues are good at is thieving, pvp, and soloing. Getting the cleric sub wouldn't help with those things bard, however, might.

I get that it was an opinion,based on what though?
Appealing to authority,in this case yourself for having a cleric sub does not even make an argument for the superiority of bard subclass.

Give examples in skills to why bard is better then Cleric.Please just compare cleric to bard subclass and debunk yourself

[salmissra]

i think you should get cleric...the only skills useful for a bard subclass is the moving march, noise, and maybe the mp recovery?

on the other hand, there are lots of useful cleric skills: bless spell (love it), recovery division, healing division, recovery, holyword, maybe the res skill?

i usually just switch to my cleric when i see a hunter coming and buff myself fast and kill xD

[toastedsock]

Ok once again you're missing the point that we're talking about rogues here not the usefulness of the skills in general.
But to illustrate my point I will list the skills and how they could be used to a rogues advantage.

Bard:
Moving March - Could cancel out the speed lost by casting stealth and help rogues follow pvpers/traders easily
Noise - Would make following and attacking a trade really easy because the rogues wouldn't have to worry about fighting mobs just the trader and hunter/s

Cleric: (let's just go with some common ones)
Heal - Yeah healing is gonna save you when you're fighting a nuker
Res - Can't res yourself
Force Blessing, Body Blessing, etc. - Can't cast on yourself
Bless Spell - Might be good but would probably run out before you could catch the trade
Holy Word - Would be nice, could prevent burn from nukers, except that you would still get nuked into oblivion
Recovery Division - Would be good for fighting a 2hs, could help you survive against it longer

Overall getting all of the cleric skills, out of which maybe one is useful, would require way too much time, sp, and effort. Bard, on the other hand, has two very useful skills that wouldn't require a horrendous amount of sp to obtain. My conclusion is that for a rogue the bard subclass is much better, than the cleric subclass. A rogues skills rely on 1 hit kills and quick stealthy attacks, my point is that the bard subclass caters to this way of fighting much more than the cleric subclass.

[You_Dead_Yet]

But if you can afford them for jobbing and such, the speed potions dont cost that much, and do the same as the most useful skill in the bard sub.

I'm myself a rogue/cleric farmed to 80 and use speed potions when pvp/job (dont use them when grinding anyway, Xbow have so much range) and i couldnt think of a more useless sub than bard for me.

[bigbamboo]

Finally some arguments=)

Your stuff,

Bard:
Moving March - Could cancel out the speed lost by casting stealth and help rogues follow pvpers/traders easily..

What about buying a 100% speedpotion?beats the hell outta 90% moving march.really are u so poor that it's not worth considering?

Noise-Who needs it for protection against mobs anyway?During jobs its the players that u need to pay real attention for,mobs especially during higher levels when u can really enjoy jobs are like mangyangs.

Cleric buys a speedpotion,has higher speed then Bard and also has the following useful skills and no not alot of the pathetic Skills u Mentioned.

HealingCycle/Orbit-Heals a chunk of hp for 16 sec long.
Bless Spell -45 sec super def,mag def increase.Only a noob would use it like u mentioned.
Recovery division-heals hp every 3-5 seconds,almost like chinese autopot.what more can I say?

Holy word-Immunity against status' in the long run and no not only burn but everything and what the hell does a nuker has to do with anything?
Heaven Glare-Binds the person for 10 seconds so he can't do anything.

Pvp,
Bard has 1 point-moving march.
Cleric has 4 points and more speed with speedpotion.

Flawless victory.

[noobert mclagg]

Cleric is so much more useful.

Bless spell: its not gunna run out before u get to the trade and will most likely save ur life.
Recovery Division: Pretty much autopot and once again will save ur life.
Holy Word: With out this Warlocks and bladers will destroy u.
Recovery: If u are going to use recovery in the heat of a battle then u deserve to die.
Force/Body blessing: not a required skill
Res: In my opinion it is not a waste of sp at all if u are jobbing with another thief/hunter it would be a good idea to try to res them if they die.
Heavenly Flash: One of the most important cleric skills. Cast it on someone put on CE and snipe them for 10 sec, pretty much always gunna be a kill.

Bard:
Moving March: This skill is nice but how often are u gunna be in stealth. The purpose of the skill is to put it on when u see some one, not to keep it on all the time and daggers already hav a skill that increase their moving speed while in stealth.
Noise: Not gunna help u much if u see a hunter/ thief. Plus it only protects against regular mobs.

[bigbamboo]

Finally somebody who gets it >.< =)

[BloodOwnzzz]

I wrote 1 thing detailing everything. Then I wrote a condensed version. And now I'll end it in 1 sentence...

You don't know what you are talking about.

[dannoob]

Cleric sub IS PRETTY USELESS for Rogue. I'd rather be able to run away fast then get my ass kicked while running away. Either way if you are KBed or kept in place in any way, you will be dead to more than 1 person who isn't completely retarded.

this is what you wrote and i couldnt disagree more. yes you can try to run but if you're facing a chinese they phantom walk and grasswalk will outrange you easily. on top of that if you're facing a nuker, bower or even glaiver, they have ranged attacks that if you were running away with the pot delay would probably kill you pretty easily. While with cleric with bless spell, which lasts longer as you get higher level, with recovery divsion the pot delay wont matter much either which means you heal alot while running away. So you probably wont die. On top of that you have heavens glare to hold them in place, switch to daggers and scud. Then since you probably healed alot switch to xbow, xbow extreme, and kb/kd them. There are just so many possibilities with a cleric, while bard you are basically left with running that really isnt that fast...

[toastedsock]

Holy word-Immunity against status' in the long run and no not only burn but everything and what the hell does a nuker has to do with anything?

It doesn't protect against ice or stun which will screw you over if they happen to you. I'd like to see your recovery division and bless spell save you if a nuker ice rains, then lightning/fire nukes you. And even if there isn't a nuker, what about a warrior? A sprint assault(stun) and shield trash(KB) would immobilize you long enough to screw you over.

Bless Spell -45 sec super def,mag def increase.Only a noob would use it like u mentioned.

I didn't say any particular way to use it.

But if you can afford them for jobbing and such, the speed potions dont cost that much, and do the same as the most useful skill in the bard sub.

I'm myself a rogue/cleric farmed to 80 and use speed potions when pvp/job (dont use them when grinding anyway, Xbow have so much range) and i couldnt think of a more useless sub than bard for me.

I will admit to myself when I overlook an option, I hadn't though of buying a potion at the store and if that's a viable option for you then by all means. Personally I would rather use a skill than a potion, because yes I am that cheap lol.

Noise: Not gunna help u much if u see a hunter/ thief. Plus it only protects against regular mobs.

I don't believe that you know how useful that skill is, when I played my bard character noise saved me many times. Keeping that one extra reg mob off of you and avoiding the couple hundred dmg can be a real lifesaver.

All in all I have stated my views and opinions many times and backed them up with evidence. You clearly do not care what I think and flat out refuse to believe that I could be right in anyway. When I was wrong about the speed pots I admitted it. Hopefully we will have provided insight into the usefulness of the two different subclasses for the author of this post. I've made my point and will no longer argue the subject with you. I didn't post to argue but you were very hostile in your initial post above my views so I thought I would try and clarify them for you.

I am done wasting my time with this pointless argument, we both have opinions and I respect yours even if that respect is not returned.

Lust4Toma I hope that our posts have helped you make a decision and I wish you luck creating your character.

[BloodOwnzzz]

Cleric sub IS PRETTY USELESS for Rogue. I'd rather be able to run away fast then get my ass kicked while running away. Either way if you are KBed or kept in place in any way, you will be dead to more than 1 person who isn't completely retarded.

this is what you wrote and i couldnt disagree more. yes you can try to run but if you're facing a chinese they phantom walk and grasswalk will outrange you easily. on top of that if you're facing a nuker, bower or even glaiver, they have ranged attacks that if you were running away with the pot delay would probably kill you pretty easily. While with cleric with bless spell, which lasts longer as you get higher level, with recovery divsion the pot delay wont matter much either which means you heal alot while running away. So you probably wont die. On top of that you have heavens glare to hold them in place, switch to daggers and scud. Then since you probably healed alot switch to xbow, xbow extreme, and kb/kd them. There are just so many possibilities with a cleric, while bard you are basically left with running that really isnt that fast...

You have to run into town either way. Don't you Farking realize Rogues still get there faces kicked in with Bless Spell on. >_> >_< <_< Bless Spell lasts the same amount of time from lvl 24 to lvl 140. Also, Recovery Division blows so much on Full Str WTF will a 1.5k heal every 5 seconds save you from? I've seen Bladers kill Rogues with Bless Spell, Recovery Division, and Holy Word/Spell on SOLO when the Rogue was XBow. That's how Farking pathetic Bless Spell is with the Rogue damage buffs.

[dannoob]

im not saying it will always save them but has a greater chance of saving them since you also get regular pots every 3rd one. the extra hp can give you enoguh life for one or two hits, which is mroe than you can say for any bard.

[noobert mclagg]

im not saying it will always save them but has a greater chance of saving them since you also get regular pots every 3rd one. the extra hp can give you enoguh life for one or two hits, which is mroe than you can say for any bard.

+1

[BabyBoy]

Cleric sub IS PRETTY USELESS for Rogue. I'd rather be able to run away fast then get my ass kicked while running away. Either way if you are KBed or kept in place in any way, you will be dead to more than 1 person who isn't completely retarded.

this is what you wrote and i couldnt disagree more. yes you can try to run but if you're facing a chinese they phantom walk and grasswalk will outrange you easily. on top of that if you're facing a nuker, bower or even glaiver, they have ranged attacks that if you were running away with the pot delay would probably kill you pretty easily. While with cleric with bless spell, which lasts longer as you get higher level, with recovery divsion the pot delay wont matter much either which means you heal alot while running away. So you probably wont die. On top of that you have heavens glare to hold them in place, switch to daggers and scud. Then since you probably healed alot switch to xbow, xbow extreme, and kb/kd them. There are just so many possibilities with a cleric, while bard you are basically left with running that really isnt that fast...

You have to run into town either way. Don't you Farking realize Rogues still get there faces kicked in with Bless Spell on. >_> >_< <_< Bless Spell lasts the same amount of time from lvl 24 to lvl 140. Also, Recovery Division blows so much on Full Str WTF will a 1.5k heal every 5 seconds save you from? I've seen Bladers kill Rogues with Bless Spell, Recovery Division, and Holy Word/Spell on SOLO when the Rogue was XBow. That's how Farking pathetic Bless Spell is with the Rogue damage buffs.

You think a little extra move speed is gna stop kd from a blader that prob has phantom... bless spell at least gives you a chance that extra time gives cd to your spells so why would it not be better?