The ultimate question. *no joke..look inside*

[Tasdik]

So after seeing some totally suckish warriors on Venus at the Sungs I'm gonna be making a new 1h *I'm mostly gonna be partying with this char so don't say "man you need 2h" -_-* warrior/bard or cleric. Question is which one?
I know people say "go cleric cause it's awesome for parties" But how awesome is it really? I mean if we've got a cleric at the sungs 24/7do I really need to go cleric?
And with bard I get the nice speed buff which will help imensly since I'll be a 1h in heavy armor running around without the speed buff would be a pain in the butt.
So yeah once again which do ya'll think I should choose? Bard or Cleric?

[Crowley]

Why not wear light armor?

[Tasdik]

I was just pondering that myself a second ago...honestly Idk...I may go with heavy Armor for the first couple lvls then switch to light armor. *shrugs*

[Sly]

So after seeing some totally suckish warriors on Venus at the Sungs I'm gonna be making a new 1h *I'm mostly gonna be partying with this char so don't say "man you need 2h" -_-* warrior/bard or cleric. Question is which one?
I know people say "go cleric cause it's awesome for parties" But how awesome is it really? I mean if we've got a cleric at the sungs 24/7do I really need to go cleric?
And with bard I get the nice speed buff which will help imensly since I'll be a 1h in heavy armor running around without the speed buff would be a pain in the butt.
So yeah once again which do ya'll think I should choose? Bard or Cleric?

if you say you have cleric all the time in party, dont forget you have bard in party as well to give you speed buff... so this matter you are looking from a wrong point of view.

[hsihthuwko22]

Cleric.

[salmissra]

cleric.

since you are making 1h for partyplay..you will have NO need to use moving march, ye it's annoying to run without it but cleric's survivability > bard speed

oh and go 1h/cleric for now...but you'll have to get 2h/or axe eventually

[the_wicked]

1H cleric in LA, add 2h later when you can farm

[Zeela12]

Problem with war/cleric is that you can't switch out to bless (lose buff etc), upside is that if everyone dies, or something goes wrong, you can self live and tank and revive everyone and save the pt.

Problem with war/bard is that there's not much you'll get from the build. You won't need noise, you won't be able to use MC that well. On the upside (ONLY IF YOU'RE GOOD) you can be a str bard in the pt. Str bards take some skill and it's full support bard. I guess it's good at high levels (mana wind to draw aggro to save ints, rave melody, mc mm, tambor and stuff) but yeah, you don't want tambor to go down in a pt so tanking things as a bard won't help all that much.

Really up to you, it's pretty much the same, both not all that good nor bad.

You might also consider war/lock.

[Bleed4Me]

i say warlock for pvp beacus your only 1handed
and for party u dont realy need a sub cleric is dumb beacus u most change wep for bles and redo all your buffs then.Bard there most always be a bard in a pt that gives you speed bard with gaurd tambour so no problem so u don't need a sub for party's.

[the_wicked]

Problem with war/cleric is that you can't switch out to bless (lose buff etc), upside is that if everyone dies, or something goes wrong, you can self live and tank and revive everyone and save the pt.

Problem with war/bard is that there's not much you'll get from the build. You won't need noise, you won't be able to use MC that well. On the upside (ONLY IF YOU'RE GOOD) you can be a str bard in the pt. Str bards take some skill and it's full support bard. I guess it's good at high levels (mana wind to draw aggro to save ints, rave melody, mc mm, tambor and stuff) but yeah, you don't want tambor to go down in a pt so tanking things as a bard won't help all that much.

Really up to you, it's pretty much the same, both not all that good nor bad.

You might also consider war/lock.

lol @ both not good/bad. War clerics are the new cookiecutter builds for decent players. Cleric works well cuz it makes the auto pot problem less important.

[DeathBeforeDishonor]

If you wanna be a tank then cleric even though a decent party will
have a cleric but still if the other cleric is down then you been 1H
tank, res anyone.. Plus you both got bless, 1min 30secs if it hehe.

[Taelys]

I should say bard. In a decent party there are normally a couple of wizzard/clerics that will cast bless all around. It's better that the tank isn't casting it because his buffs on the other party players are gone.

Warriors miss speed, if you are able to cast it, it stays there for long helping you to run faster to mobs, taunt them faster and bring them faster back to the party. It's also great when the cleric is too much attacked by mobs and you have to rescue him fast.

And for party, 1H warrior rules. It isn't the damage that he inflicts that is important but his abilities to return back to the party with lots of mobs and keep them aggro on him. Shield rules to take the damage and shield trash for removing the mobs that will aggro on the cleric because he uses recovery division.

[Tasdik]

I should say bard. In a decent party there are normally a couple of wizzard/clerics that will cast bless all around. It's better that the tank isn't casting it because his buffs on the other party players are gone.

Warriors miss speed, if you are able to cast it, it stays there for long helping you to run faster to mobs, taunt them faster and bring them faster back to the party. It's also great when the cleric is too much attacked by mobs and you have to rescue him fast.

See that's kind of what I was thinking.

Although ya'll are right being able to tank a ton with warrior/cleric is awesome and also having ress is a huge help when the party runs into issues such as lack of organization

And really why do I need 2h? Except for pvp?

Another reason I'm considering bard is because so many warriors on Venus are warrior/cleric so a little bit diversity wouldn't be all that bad would it?

And I'm trying not to have more then a 4 gap from lvl 1-90 and lock costs a bunch of sp so I don't think I'ma do that.

[Tasdik]

*still can't make up his mind*

[PeroMed]

OMG you already got your answer whats there to think about...

You said you are gonna only party.
And you said you wont need cleric and that you want speed.

I know people say "go cleric cause it's awesome for parties" But how awesome is it really? I mean if we've got a cleric at the sungs 24/7do I really need to go cleric?
And with bard I get the nice speed buff which will help imensly since I'll be a 1h in heavy armor running around without the speed buff would be a pain in the butt.
So yeah once again which do ya'll think I should choose? Bard or Cleric?

Someone else said you don't realy need sub for partying and if you multiply this you get:
dont need cleric * dont need cleric
and
want bard * dont need bard

So your Answer is: BARD!!!!!!
Huray...

[BabyBoy]

Let me just say this, don't be afraid to make a cookie cutter build. The reason they are cookie cutter builds are because they are easy and most of all successfully proven. I think what ever subclass you go it will be beneficial in certain aspects and will lack in other aspects.

Cleric Pros:
- Bless spell for extra tanking when skins are down
- Heals + Recovery Division to obviously heal and reduce the effect of pot delay
- Immunity, will drastically reduce both your weaknesses in PVP and reduce the use of pills in PVE (Not that itll matter cause your in a party anyway).
- Bind
- Buffs, these are very handy when in a party
- Passive Armor, if your going to go in light armor than this is the way to go as when you equip your cleric rod + shield you get an instant increase in mag and phy def drastically

Bard Pros:
- Move speed, obviously mobility rocks who doesn't want it =P
- Noise, this can't be cast on others so if you want to not be targeted by creeps you need to learn bard mastery yourself
- Dances, increases a wide range of things in party through buffs
- Tambours, the provide mag and phy absorption and are the basis for dances
- MP healing, well you won't do as well of a job as a pure int will but i guess every bit counts (You shouldn't even be doing this in a party)

At the end of the day to summarize what you need to decide between is whether you want a better tanking ability to go alongside your skins, remember that cleric offers other things too such as bind, immunity, buffs, heals and of course passive armor. Or whether you want to have mobility, dances, tambours and noise.

If you want my bias opinion on the two subclasses, i would say cleric. Just don't let the whole cookie cutter thing get into your mind, at the end of the day i think you should take a look at the pros and cons and figure out which are more advantageous and more important to you for your situation.

[Tasdik]

Let me just say this, don't be afraid to make a cookie cutter build. The reason they are cookie cutter builds are because they are easy and most of all successfully proven. I think what ever subclass you go it will be beneficial in certain aspects and will lack in other aspects.

Cleric Pros:
- Bless spell for extra tanking when skins are down
- Heals + Recovery Division to obviously heal and reduce the effect of pot delay
- Immunity, will drastically reduce both your weaknesses in PVP and reduce the use of pills in PVE (Not that itll matter cause your in a party anyway).
- Bind
- Buffs, these are very handy when in a party
- Passive Armor, if your going to go in light armor than this is the way to go as when you equip your cleric rod + shield you get an instant increase in mag and phy def drastically

Bard Pros:
- Move speed, obviously mobility rocks who doesn't want it =P
- Noise, this can't be cast on others so if you want to not be targeted by creeps you need to learn bard mastery yourself
- Dances, increases a wide range of things in party through buffs
- Tambours, the provide mag and phy absorption and are the basis for dances
- MP healing, well you won't do as well of a job as a pure int will but i guess every bit counts (You shouldn't even be doing this in a party)

At the end of the day to summarize what you need to decide between is whether you want a better tanking ability to go alongside your skins, remember that cleric offers other things too such as bind, immunity, buffs, heals and of course passive armor. Or whether you want to have mobility, dances, tambours and noise.

If you want my bias opinion on the two subclasses, i would say cleric. Just don't let the whole cookie cutter thing get into your mind, at the end of the day i think you should take a look at the pros and cons and figure out which are more advantageous and more important to you for your situation.

Thank you

Now if I pick either Cleric or bard I'll only be getting these skills

Cleric:
- RD
- Bless spell
- Ress *For saving the party if it goes down and I somehow survive*
- Immunity
Bard:
- Speed
- Noise *I won't use it during party play but if I'm jobbing or something it'd be nice to keep the pesky mobs off of me ...Dang evil birds chasing my horse non-stop*
- And one Mp raising skill...just in case

So with that in mind would you still recommend Cleric yay or nay?

[BabyBoy]

To be honest I highly doubt you will use bard at all in party play, there will probably already be a bard or someone else in the party with bard and they will cast move march. Not saying that their wont be a cleric in the party, of course their will be but moving march doesn't stack obviously lol and MP casting i highly doubt as a warrior your going to do. So basically from the skills you offered the only skill that is going to be any use in party play is MP casting as a bard, which effectively can be done by the bard in your party and he will do obviously a much better job. As a warrior you don't want to be holding a harp out every 2 seconds so yeh i think cleric is the way to go. Good luck.

Plus i think cleric is better for party play as you can res being the tankest person within the party and cast recovery division/bless spell when needed.

[Tasdik]

Thank you for your help you've successfully helped me make up my mind Cleric it is

[Taelys]

Good luck with your build

And if yu don't like it, use a couple of cursed hearts to remove your secondary. You can even play both at start to test them out.

[Guardia]

Stop thinking solo! "bard is good for a tank because tank need speed to lure etc etc" <--- this is solo thinking. U're in a pt. A bard(s) will be there. They will speed u. A tank with bard sub is useless, worthless in party (for his sub). Again, stop thinking solo, start thinking party play.

[Tasdik]

Stop thinking solo! "bard is good for a tank because tank need speed to lure etc etc" <--- this is solo thinking. U're in a pt. A bard(s) will be there. They will speed u. A tank with bard sub is useless, worthless in party (for his sub). Again, stop thinking solo, start thinking party play.

Aye aye captain *salutes*