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Progress wrote:Euros are overpowered. They are also very easy to play since there really arent any decisions to make, you get your skills, you go pure int or pure str, and thats that.
nightbloom wrote:Progress wrote:Euros are overpowered. They are also very easy to play since there really arent any decisions to make, you get your skills, you go pure int or pure str, and thats that.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
I have ten different heals. Being as how I cant use them all, which heals should I use in what situations? Should I get them all? Some dont need the first book to get the second, do I just wait till I can get the better second book if it is even better?
Just because it seems simple, doesnt mean it is.
(btw, no, I dont have all the heals, just the ones I seemed to use the most)
[MS]Malicious wrote:nightbloom wrote:Progress wrote:Euros are overpowered. They are also very easy to play since there really arent any decisions to make, you get your skills, you go pure int or pure str, and thats that.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
I have ten different heals. Being as how I cant use them all, which heals should I use in what situations? Should I get them all? Some dont need the first book to get the second, do I just wait till I can get the better second book if it is even better?
Just because it seems simple, doesnt mean it is.
(btw, no, I dont have all the heals, just the ones I seemed to use the most)
+1
I'm a warlock with sub cleric and when I'm pvping and/or jobbing I must know which skills to use at what time. Should I stun first? Or should I debuff? Should I use Wheel Bind? If this gets resisted, should I use another skill? Euro takes much more experience than spamming 12345.
Necrobat wrote:[MS]Malicious wrote:nightbloom wrote:
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
I have ten different heals. Being as how I cant use them all, which heals should I use in what situations? Should I get them all? Some dont need the first book to get the second, do I just wait till I can get the better second book if it is even better?
Just because it seems simple, doesnt mean it is.
(btw, no, I dont have all the heals, just the ones I seemed to use the most)
+1
I'm a warlock with sub cleric and when I'm pvping and/or jobbing I must know which skills to use at what time. Should I stun first? Or should I debuff? Should I use Wheel Bind? If this gets resisted, should I use another skill? Euro takes much more experience than spamming 12345.
Precisely. For example as a cleric, I have a collection of standard heals, and a few emergency heals. (because they're quick cast and heal a lot)
As for being a warlock, I have to have THREE different setups. Party PvE, Solo PvP/PvE and party PvP. From then, I work out which skills I have to use when. (generally stun, DoT, disease then whatever)
nightbloom wrote:Progress wrote:Euros are overpowered. They are also very easy to play since there really arent any decisions to make, you get your skills, you go pure int or pure str, and thats that.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
I have ten different heals. Being as how I cant use them all, which heals should I use in what situations? Should I get them all? Some dont need the first book to get the second, do I just wait till I can get the better second book if it is even better?
Just because it seems simple, doesnt mean it is.
(btw, no, I dont have all the heals, just the ones I seemed to use the most)
Progress wrote:nightbloom wrote:Progress wrote:Euros are overpowered. They are also very easy to play since there really arent any decisions to make, you get your skills, you go pure int or pure str, and thats that.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
I have ten different heals. Being as how I cant use them all, which heals should I use in what situations? Should I get them all? Some dont need the first book to get the second, do I just wait till I can get the better second book if it is even better?
Just because it seems simple, doesnt mean it is.
(btw, no, I dont have all the heals, just the ones I seemed to use the most)
You still go pure int if you are an "int build". I don't understand why you find it difficult. Compared to chinese, making a euro char is ridiculously easy. As a warlock, i basically had one set of skills. It was just a matter of leveling up and getting them. No choices there.
Take wizards, they go int and get their nukes. Then they own 5-10 level higher players in one hit. Their nukes are also "faster" than chinese nukes, so 9/10 the wizard wins. Not overpowered? Same goes for rogue pretty much. One skilltree and they own. Try doing that with chinese. I see full-str chars getting one hit. All chinese might as well go pure int since they get owned anyway.
Necrobat wrote:Here we have an example of the standard noob at Euro. 1, Euros are not designed for 1v1, they are designed for parties. 2, most people don't play in parties because 3, most people don't understand how Euros are intended.
Progress wrote:Necrobat wrote:Here we have an example of the standard noob at Euro. 1, Euros are not designed for 1v1, they are designed for parties. 2, most people don't play in parties because 3, most people don't understand how Euros are intended.
Sigh. Not this again. What i said has nothing to do with parties. Understand? If not, tell me what you don't get so i can explain to you. How could you possibly interpret what i said as "he doesnt know euros are for party play" ?
Party or no party, what i said is true. I said they were too strong in 1v1, so that means that your comment was completely unnecessary as they become even stronger with a party.
Do you have a rebuttal or are you going to continue to tell me the same old shit?
ThisIsAvalon wrote:Coconuts make the world go round.
hes right i do mwuhaha jkDeacon wrote:ThisIsAvalon wrote:Coconuts make the world go round.
LIES! They don't
also about the topic unless there pure str with sun or something they have no chance to pot again euro's unless they iron wall or bloody snake storm even then though if they dont get the first hit in its o/vProgress wrote:nightbloom wrote:Progress wrote:Euros are overpowered. They are also very easy to play since there really arent any decisions to make, you get your skills, you go pure int or pure str, and thats that.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
I have ten different heals. Being as how I cant use them all, which heals should I use in what situations? Should I get them all? Some dont need the first book to get the second, do I just wait till I can get the better second book if it is even better?
Just because it seems simple, doesnt mean it is.
(btw, no, I dont have all the heals, just the ones I seemed to use the most)
You still go pure int if you are an "int build". I don't understand why you find it difficult. Compared to chinese, making a euro char is ridiculously easy. As a warlock, i basically had one set of skills. It was just a matter of leveling up and getting them. No choices there.
Take wizards, they go int and get their nukes. Then they own 5-10 level higher players in one hit. Their nukes are also "faster" than chinese nukes, so 9/10 the wizard wins. Not overpowered? Same goes for rogue pretty much. One skilltree and they own. Try doing that with chinese. I see full-str chars getting one hit. All chinese might as well go pure int since they get owned anyway.
Necrobat wrote:Progress wrote:Necrobat wrote:Here we have an example of the standard noob at Euro. 1, Euros are not designed for 1v1, they are designed for parties. 2, most people don't play in parties because 3, most people don't understand how Euros are intended.
Sigh. Not this again. What i said has nothing to do with parties. Understand? If not, tell me what you don't get so i can explain to you. How could you possibly interpret what i said as "he doesnt know euros are for party play" ?
Party or no party, what i said is true. I said they were too strong in 1v1, so that means that your comment was completely unnecessary as they become even stronger with a party.
Do you have a rebuttal or are you going to continue to tell me the same old shit?
Do strong in 1v1? Blade/sword vs wizard. Phantom then chain. Wizard = dead. Vs spear/glaive. Phantom then Soul Spear. Wizard = dead. Vs bow. Phantom out of range, use AntiDevil/Strongbow. Wizard = dead. Same works for rogues. Can't spot them? Detect in the Fire force trees.
All you need is a bit of smart play. They're far from overpowered.
nightbloom wrote:blah blah blah, you never addressed my point.
Yes.Sure, the Euro has all its skills on a single page for each class. Do you really think that means the class is simpler than a chinese which gives mutiple choices of pages?
LOL Euros arent that simple.
There are strategies for killing off Euro pts... If you actually played Euros in a pt, the weaknesses would be glaringly obvious to anyone who pays attention. We know but arent telling.
1v1 is happening a lot more often than party vs party. I can see that from your perspective, it is about something different since you are concerned with healing and resing. However, for most other classes (all chinese), it is about 1v1. Other than nukes, most attacks wont realistically even hit more than one player.lol I can see several ways that a group of chinese could score some real points, but people are too focused on 1 v 1 and against Euros, 1 v 1 isnt happening. We dont even job alone.
Progress wrote:nightbloom wrote:blah blah blah, you never addressed my point.
You shoehorned my point into something that it's not. Your claim is that because you have several healing skills, that would somehow balance the fact that a chinese must be fully farmed (requiring a gazillion sp) to even stand a chance? (and would probably still get one hit by a cookie cutter wizard).Yes.Sure, the Euro has all its skills on a single page for each class. Do you really think that means the class is simpler than a chinese which gives mutiple choices of pages?LOL Euros arent that simple.
They are not only "simple" in that they have fewer skills. Its also the fact that wizards spend like 5k sp and can one hit someone 5 levels higher who spent 20k sp. That is called an imbalance.There are strategies for killing off Euro pts... If you actually played Euros in a pt, the weaknesses would be glaringly obvious to anyone who pays attention. We know but arent telling.
My point has nothing to do with party play.1v1 is happening a lot more often than party vs party. I can see that from your perspective, it is about something different since you are concerned with healing and resing. However, for most other classes (all chinese), it is about 1v1. Other than nukes, most attacks wont realistically even hit more than one player.lol I can see several ways that a group of chinese could score some real points, but people are too focused on 1 v 1 and against Euros, 1 v 1 isnt happening. We dont even job alone.
Progress wrote:You really don't get it.
Lionsden wrote:Progress wrote:You really don't get it.
Progress...
I think you're the one who doesn't get it. Both sides have the ability to 1 or 2 hit each other without proper support.
When this game was Chinese only it was a game that was highly centric on 1v1 encounters. Chinese players have a much stronger ability to solo then their Euro Counterparts who are virtually forced to group play with a few rare exceptions in order to gain any decent amount of SP or XP.
Your complaint about Chinese characters needing to more complex is actually China's strength. When you face a Chinese character in PvP you never know what you're going to be fighing.
Certain builds will have stronger viability but the versatility of Chinese characters makes them a far greater concern then your standard Euro builds. Mainly because every Chinese character -knows- what that Euro build can bring to the table.
Which makes it far easier to nullify a Euro build then a Chinese build.
Playing the actual characters is not more complex. Skilled players still need to figure out the excution order and how to adapt to the situation to excel or to win a fight.
What you're complaint really seems to be is Chinese characters need more SP to get their 'optimum' build which is something completely -different- then complexity of play.
Yet, Chinese characters have the ability to farm near endlessly that the Euro's can't match. That's Pot Spam.
1 Class on the Euro side has the ability to semi-nullify that and it's Warlocks. Guess what - a low level Tier 1 Chinese skill nullifies the majority of that class's offensive attacks. If you don't know what it is... you should learn.
Euro's changed the PvP dynamic of this game and that's what I think a lot of the complaining about Euro's are more powerful is coming from. This game isn't centered around 1v1 anymore and dueling outside south gate.
The PvP dynamic in this game has become far more group oriented since Euro's excel far more in groups then they do in solo play.
You show me a wizard that one shots a Chinese character and I'll show you a Chinese Nuker who can virtually do the same. Or a Chinese Bow build that can virtually obliterate any Euro Caster they come across.
We could all sit here and complain or you could actually experiment with builds and work on seeing how to create Chinese character group synergy rather then the simple complaint that 'I need to farm more SP'... which is the truth hidden underneath your 'Chinese is harder' complaint.
P.S. I have both a Euro and Chinese toon - both have strengths and weaknesses others can exploit if they have half a brain.
Lionsden wrote:Progress...
I think you're the one who doesn't get it. Both sides have the ability to 1 or 2 hit each other without proper support.
It still is. The fact that the targeting automatically "locks" on and you can not designate an area to "nuke", if you will. That automatically makes it very centered around 1v1.When this game was Chinese only it was a game that was highly centric on 1v1 encounters.
Somewhat true. Wizards, rogues and warriors can certainly grind well on their own though.Chinese players have a much stronger ability to solo then their Euro Counterparts who are virtually forced to group play with a few rare exceptions in order to gain any decent amount of SP or XP.
Not exacly. Maybe i should have tried harder to make this more clear. When people starts "shoehorning" though, things just get lost.Your complaint about Chinese characters needing to more complex is actually China's strength. When you face a Chinese character in PvP you never know what you're going to be fighing.
Knowing doesn't matter if you still can't stop it.Certain builds will have stronger viability but the versatility of Chinese characters makes them a far greater concern then your standard Euro builds. Mainly because every Chinese character -knows- what that Euro build can bring to the table.
Except it's not really possible.Which makes it far easier to nullify a Euro build then a Chinese build.
Perhaps you would like to clarify this. Until then, execution order for rogues and wizards = strongest attack = dead chinese, in most cases. I just got hit by a lvl 72+ rogue, 20k dmg, no crit (i am also 72+).Playing the actual characters is not more complex. Skilled players still need to figure out the excution order and how to adapt to the situation to excel or to win a fight.
Other than snow shield, their optimum build doesn't have much of an effect. I guess i should have used the word "cookie-cutter", instead.
What you're complaint really seems to be is Chinese characters need more SP to get their 'optimum' build which is something completely -different- then complexity of play.
This doesn't make sense. Are you saying because some euros are dependent on being in a party, the chinese have an advantage? If so, i guess i agree with that. With the exception that wizards, rogues and warriors can go solo.Yet, Chinese characters have the ability to farm near endlessly that the Euro's can't match. That's Pot Spam.
Having played a warlock to lvl 6x, i can say that unless they get some new skill at 80, they are not in the same league when it comes to imbalances as wizards and rogues.1 Class on the Euro side has the ability to semi-nullify that and it's Warlocks. Guess what - a low level Tier 1 Chinese skill nullifies the majority of that class's offensive attacks. If you don't know what it is... you should learn.
Euros are even more powerful in a party. So this means that if they are overpowered in 1v1, they are certainly even more overpowered in a party where they get bufs. Your implied argument that chinese would become significantly stronger in a party - strong enough to nullify any advantage, doesn't really hold much water.Euro's changed the PvP dynamic of this game and that's what I think a lot of the complaining about Euro's are more powerful is coming from. This game isn't centered around 1v1 anymore and dueling outside south gate.
That is not really what is going on. There are exceptions though.The PvP dynamic in this game has become far more group oriented since Euro's excel far more in groups then they do in solo play.
Irrelevant. Wizard's nukes are faster and they have invisibility. I shouldn't have to spend millions on pots that may or may not help me.You show me a wizard that one shots a Chinese character and I'll show you a Chinese Nuker who can virtually do the same.
Bows probably do have the best chance, but they still get one or two hit. Which is the real problem.Or a Chinese Bow build that can virtually obliterate any Euro Caster they come across.
I have played this game for years. I see the reality. You do as well. You just don't want to believe it.We could all sit here and complain or you could actually experiment with builds and work on seeing how to create Chinese character group synergy rather then the simple complaint that 'I need to farm more SP'... which is the truth hidden underneath your 'Chinese is harder' complaint.
It is difficult to do any of that "exploiting" when you cant see them, and once you do, 9/10 you are dead.P.S. I have both a Euro and Chinese toon - both have strengths and weaknesses others can exploit if they have half a brain.