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I am pretty bored right now, and I was wondering what would help with that so here we go. A fun game of theoretical PvP. Quite simply, we start off with 2 Chars (person that starts the battle will give the two builds), and we comment on who would win a PvP most of the time by using skills and countering the strategies of others.
Rules:
All pots allowed. EDIT: Except Vigors for Chinese.
Both Chars have same equips.
New battles cannot begin before another battle ends, and unless there is a draw, the wining build of first battle fights with another build.
Crits are considered, but if it can go either way with crits, the battle is a draw.
All Weapons start of with crit 10, which for our purpose will be 1 in 4 hits. +5, max blues, 80% stats on the rest.
All armors start off with maxed blues, 50% on all other stats.
Both chars are level 80, fully farmed with all skills of their masteries.

So here we go.For the first battle:

Something easy to argue, so we will start chinese.
Glaive 80 fire, 80 heuksal, 80 light, 60 cold vs Bow, 80 fire, 80 pacheon, 80 light, 60 cold.
Both pure str.



(So who would win , and what would be your strategy to win?)

Well, I wont paritipate into it,
pure str glavie vs pure str bow

in this case, all the bowers will defend 50K pages of comments that they won't loose, and the glavies will defend themselves with 50K pages of posts too

This sounds like some nerdy Dungeons and Dragons board game type sht. :/

Zerk, sse, windless, gsm. Spam until opponent is down. Rinse, repeat as necessary.

Bowmen starts with strong bow. BAM!!! Crit!
Glaive phantoms in for a quick ghost spear to recover. Doesn't get kb.
Bowmen arrow combos kb 3 times. Followed by Anti Devil. Another big crit.
Glaive vigors then again runs in for a soul spear.
As the bowmen shoots off another strong bow. Both end up getting stunned at the same time.
At this moment a rogue appears out of stealth and stabs the glaive with his nice shinny daggers.
CRIT!!!
Glaive falls and breathes his last breath.
The rogue moves in for the helpless bowmen. Types a ^_~ in chat and as he is about to execute his skill, a meteor falls from the sky.
Wizard in zerk starts to head towards the safe zone since he's pvping solo and has to play cowardly to survive.
Blader catches the wiz off guard and murders him right before the zone, laughs, then runs off to work off his penalty. The end.....

im guessing thats you Corrupt (The Wiz) seeing as you are a lvl 7x wiz on Venus ^^

the bowman would obviously win.

anyone can tank a glaiver by just walking around lol.
they have to stun u twice to kill under that circumstance unless they crit one of the SS's or crit ghost spear, they start humpin the air cuz u get out of the 1.8meter range.

but then they get really bitchy and call u 'chicken shit' =/

the people that fall to glaivers are the ones that try to tank them head on, and thats always a bad idea.

Corrupt wrote:Bowmen starts with strong bow. BAM!!! Crit!
Glaive phantoms in for a quick ghost spear to recover. Doesn't get kb.
Bowmen arrow combos kb 3 times. Followed by Anti Devil. Another big crit.
Glaive vigors then again runs in for a soul spear.
As the bowmen shoots off another strong bow. Both end up getting stunned at the same time.
At this moment a rogue appears out of stealth and stabs the glaive with his nice shinny daggers.
CRIT!!!
Glaive falls and breathes his last breath.
The rogue moves in for the helpless bowmen. Types a ^_~ in chat and as he is about to execute his skill, a meteor falls from the sky.
Wizard in zerk starts to head towards the safe zone since he's pvping solo and has to play cowardly to survive.
Blader catches the wiz off guard and murders him right before the zone, laughs, then runs off to work off his penalty. The end.....

I love it^^. very nice

The pvp i think would go like this...if the bowman actually uses distance to his advantage
Bow uses strongbow... the glavier might delay a bit must as soon as he is about to get hit he would phantom towards the bow user... then after being hit he would try a gsm but the bowman would kb him with an arrow combo... then the bowman would phantom away and once again use strong bow... this one would prolly stun so then he would use the arrow combo again and then use devil arrow, the glavier now annoyed and getting on low hp would use a few vigors... so once again he would attempt a phantom... the bow user not expecting this for some reason would be using anti devil bow strike for a perfect chance for the glavier to use GSE.. that would stun the bowman... then after a few soul spears the glavier might kb with gsm then the bowman would phantom away and thus continuing the pattern until one of them gets a few crits in a row

But i'm sure the bowman would kill the glavier before glaviey touches him

yaaa problem is that most glaivers pvping spam #'s so when bowmen phantom away the glaivers tend to just run after the bowmen cuz its a hassle clicking away and then phantoming.

Generalizing ftw Fudge? Can't compare a bad glaiver to a good bow.

Hm, I'd give glaive slight advantage simply because of greater damage of wep and dull status and heuskal fan. Of course, glaive needs to use ghostwalk well, and try to get dull status on the bow as soon as possible or the bow will wear out the glaives snow shield (if the glaive decides to use it) by just running away.

justaskphil wrote:Zerk, sse, windless, gsm. Spam until opponent is down. Rinse, repeat as necessary.

im with u .

he would grind the sucker down fast if he gets a stun and a few crits in imo (even w/o zerk)

Alright, not too many people here actually know what I mean by theoretical battle. It's not just what skill you would use, and what your strategy is, but why it would work against the other char. I will have to modify 1 rule for the chinese (No vigors..just because it would become way too crit dependent with them).

You theoretically weight someone's chances of winning by considering advantages and disadvantages.

Glavier has the fast skills in comparison to Bower, but Bower has range, and 99% knockback (would be surprised if someone says they didn't KB someone once...but meh). So if you are considering survival, a pure str bower would win over a glavier in 1vs1 simply because of the low dps of the glavier despite faster skills, and low chance of big hit even with a crit. The glavier has less chance to kb, and although they have a higher chance to stun, they won't get too many chances if the bower uses range as advantage.
Fire wall would also be an advantage to a bower, because they can lower the dmg, from eliminating imbue, prevent stun and kb, and still attack if they KB. On the other hand, the glavier can only use it to sit there and tank hits.
Phantom, and grass walk also give the bower more advantage because running is part of a bower's strategy, and using phantom to keep a distance works really well.

So! In the end, a bower would take less hits from a glaiver, while delivering more powerful criticals. This basically means a fight between a str bower that uses range and a str glavier, would be more likely to end with a bower's win, or a tie....

It would take a severe coincidence for a glaiver to win the fight, as they would need 2 or 3 crits and a stun during those hits as to be able to deliver 3-4 hits without being interrupted by KB or the bower running with phantom.

Now. Would anyone like to defend a glaiver's strategy?

defending the glaviers strategy would kinda b hard... first of all i just dislike glaviers ._. second of all unless the bowman is a nub its basically the glavier running after the bowman and if he gets the bowman and stuns him for a bit then uses a ghost spear and hits the bowman kinda hard all the bowman needs is a vigor or 2 and its like nothing ever happened... back to the chase

All a glavier can do is chase and stun... if stunned use the strongest of your attacks... and when u feel the bowman is gonna run away first use a stun then follow that up with a chain ... thats really all i can think of cause kb just gives a bowman more distance 2 run

Precisely. A glaiver would have to rely on stuns just to catch the bower. Stun being a pretty low chance, the strategy is based more on great luck than anything else, and thus, theoretically, a bower would strike a crit more often than a glaiver would stun then crit 2-3 times in a row. Thus, bower would win a duel more often. And if we don't have anyone here that would be able to prove otherwise, we should choose the next char to fight the pure str bower.

I will let someone else choose it since I started this.

I would win.

Lvl 72 2Handed warrior owns all.

andrejat wrote:I would win.

Lvl 72 2Handed warrior owns all.

2h warrior/ what? Assuming pure STR.

well firewall doesn't prevent stun ,only KD & KB... and pure str bow against warrior is easy , you swap to shield when grounded just keep running and pelting them with the 5 arrow combo until their iron skin buff is out, than let them have it. you could probably cast firewall if you want when you choose to hold your ground, so they cant interrupt your attack

Glaive would have slight advantage right now. Why? Well aside from theory, when you go and look at pvp outside dw south, bows really depend on crit. They need crit pretty badly to beat another STR char unless they have A) a really good wep against a mediocre set or B) something like vital spot to help incrase their damage. If both have sun sets, the bow would have a great crit, and would therefore have a really good chance of critting strongbow and winning.
Glaive has 30% chance (or is it more?) to KB with ghost spear. That's 30% chance to interrupt their firewall, and they also have multiple ghost spear books, unlike the bow. And if they do manage to cast firewall, you cast your firewall too right up close to them after they use arrow combo. They can't knock you back away, you do more dps (damage per second), and you have an extra 1k hp. Forces them to take down firewall, ghostwalk away, recast (or just be a regular bower), which gives you time to pot back to full health. Furthermore, when coming up to the bow, the glaive can use a shield, switch to glaive, SSE, windless, ghost spear, switch back, etc. The glaive also has the option of simply running out of the archer's range once he's used firewall and his (the glaive's) mana shield is down, once again making the bow take down his firewall.
If a bower keeps recasting firewall, its a pot war. The moment the bow is stunned and dulled, the fight is just about over. The glaive has a chance to get good crits in on the bow while its stunned. If the bow crits an anti-devil and strongbow in a row, its almost beaten the glaive. Like all other wars, it comes down to gear and luck.
Now for something more one-sided like Pure Int Unfarmed Spear vs. Farmed Blade with Sun Full.

P.S. This is generalization about hypothetical fully farmed match-ups. If you have a different experience with this PvP, congratulations. Idk no bow really owns 1v1 in any server I've seen. :S

The bow has a garm set and accessories all +5 and the s\s has armor and accessories +5... the bowman will have a +5 bow and the s\s will have a +5 s\s both +5s having full blues

pure str bow vs a HYBRID int (1:6) s\s with 80 bicheon 80 light 80 cold 60 heuksal

@ForLife. I already stated the rules, crit 10 on both. Crit on Anti devil bow adds a lot of crit, it's like 1/2 maybe 1/3 with crit 10.

So if the glaive runs, it's a stealmate, because the bow can just catch up and kb to stop them, then strong bow, the glaive, can't run basically, and if you run, you are not really attacking with the short range, so it's pretty much draw if any of them just plain runs.
Ghost spear one after the other isn't that effective because after the first one, you get the delay, so ghost after ghost won't give you high dps. So basically, the only thing you countered from a strategy that lets the bow wait on a crit would be using fire wall, although the glaive would have to wait for the combo to go off before using phantom and setting up fire wall close enough, and the bower will can save it up if they want to counter a fire wall, although since it won't last more than 3-4 hits, they can just let the glaive set it up, because they will run as soon as it goes down, then strong bow, or berserker because they have time before the glaive takes down their fire wall. So the glaive won't be repotting using fire wall, it only cages them in.

And yeah...30% Kb doesn't beat the 99% KB from the arrow combo.

And since this is all theoretical, bowers have no problem winning in theory. Actually, if you turn off pots and PvP you will see bowers would win vs glaivers a lot more than vice versa. I haven't seen too many people in dw with bows that would actually use hit and run, they just tank and kb...it's actually a little pathetic watching that.

Anyway, enough of that one, let's do the next one...(str bow vs s/s 6:1 hybrid 80 bicheon 80 light 80 cold 60 heuksal)

Yay my choice xD

Anyways back on topic

immediately i assume the hybrid would use phantom and get ready to us a nuke\kd... after seeing the bowman getting ready 2 use strong bow the nuker would probably kd the bowman give him a few down stabs then start using a nuke, seeing this the bowman might phantom away and use 5 arrow combo. Since the bowman mostly like took quite a bit of damage he would need 2 gain some hp right? So now the nuker will prolly phantom after the bowman as the bow user uses devil arrow, most likely the first kd will not kd but just as the bowman is getting ready 2 use his next attack the attack will kd and the hyb int will get his stabs in, realizing that he cant kill him just with kd+ds+nuke he would most likely kd again, the bowman trying 2 phantom away would make the hyb int have 2 chase after him as the bow user is knocked down thus the int will only get 1 the 2 hit down stab in, since the bowuser cant just phantom away he would most likely use 5 arrow combo 2 regain some hp once the nuker can move he might use a nuke, but once it hits the bow user would phantom away again and use strong bow, assuming this stuns the hyb int then the bow user would use devil arrow, once this crits , in a panic the nuker would use a few vigors. The nuker now would phantom towards the bowman and kd him just in time to stop his anti devil bow from reaching him. The nuker would down stab the bowman then would kd again, stab again and mayb even kd again and down stab, then the bow user would use a vigor seeing as his hp is around half way done and the nuker is about to use a nuke leaving the bowman @ around 3000 hp. The nuker then runs out of snowshield and the bowman kbs him, then getting ready for a strong bow the bow user would think... guh nub snow shield is dun i is te winnah... but then the nuker uses his mountain shield or w\e its called. He then gets in a nuke, the bow user gets in a devil arrow crit, nearly killing the hyb int, now aware that either could win now if the bow mans anti devil bow gets a crit he wins, if the nuker gets in a nuke he wins >.>

I count this as a win for the nuker when he has snow shield\ mountain shield on, other wise a crit or two from the bowman would prolly get the nuker...but i doubt a nuker would try 2 let a fight like this go on for this long I would assume neither of them would actually have a chance 2 activate a elemental wall

If the bowman is in garms bowman will win. All he has to do is wait 2 mins while spamming KB till snow runs out then crit on strongbow. /end of pvp

the_wicked wrote:If the bowman is in garms bowman will win. All he has to do is wait 2 mins while spamming KB till snow runs out then crit on strongbow. /end of pvp

I doubt it... on top of the extra hp of being a hybrid int he also has the 60 heuksal passive, the scenario states that the bowman has garms and the nuker has armor. Also dont forget that mountain shield comes into play here as well as walls, well i'm always doubtful of walls cause i never seem 2 use get 2 use one or give sum1 else the chance to use one

This one is pretty tough really. Since s/s nukers are a pain for a bowman, all the KD's would really hurt his hit and run strategy. I don't even think he can pull off a wall in all that, and it would be downed in 1 hit because it's an INT hybrid, so even kd would do enough p.dmg to break the ice wall. With the mana shield on, it's really a pointless fight, especially for a s/s with armor. The only smart thing to do here, is run around and phantom when the nuker phantoms, and throw in only the combo whenever possible (gotta be real quit to avoid getting hit by the KD though, almost ESP like). Because the nuker is slower with armor, I can see him having a hard time doing any consistent dmg if the bower's strategy is to wait out the mana shield and go for broke in the 1 minute left, and even then with armor and shield and 80 cold, it would be pretty hard to kill without a crit on berserker or strong bow.

Running here really is the best option. But after that, I still think the nuker can get another 30 sec of pretty safe fight by using castle shield at the right time. So 30-45 sec to pull off a crit on someone that blocks and has critical perry would be really unlikely. Chances are, the nuker will catch up and most likely end it, even if the mana shield runs out. Relying on a crit here is really the only way the bower can win, because of slow atks and overwhelming p.def on the opposite side.

I would say 7/10 would be the nuker's win or they run out of pots if running was effective. The low defense time gap is just too short to guarantee a crit or more likely stun and crit.

That s/s hybrid nuker is pretty much worst case scenario for the pure STR bower, especially wearing armor, and with all the extra hp. Crit and combo just won't do the trick.

Muahahaz OwO love hyb int ^^... for the next one i got an idea
Hyb Int PROT (6:1) 80 bich 80 light 80 cold 60 heuk VS Pure Str PROT 80 bich 80 force 80 cold 60 light
That would be one INTERESTING pvp ^^ Debuffs would become a prime aspect into winning this one

LIES ALL LIES.

My no stat-puncher build owns you all....

ThisIsAvalon wrote:LIES ALL LIES.

My no stat-puncher build owns you all....

Bullcrap, my awesome pure int hammer build would outdamage you any time....by reverese logic.



So basically, pure str force blader, with cold imbue...Lolz...

I can easily see the blader winning here, especially with the debuffs. They won't just make up for the 4% less dmg with cold imbue, but they will also make up for the passives and buffs that increase p.dmg from fire. And with 60 light, he can catch the nuker any time, since 15m is really all you need to catch a nuker that want to nuke you with their 10m atks...

So far, it's looking bleak for the hybrid. Although m.def is lower due to no fire force, the blader can pretty much take those considerably weaker nukes, even with prot set. The nuker has a lower p.def too because of wearing prots instead of armor like last time. Basically it's either a draw, or the blader would win. I just can't see the nuker doing enough dmg while being debuffed and being a hybrid as well. Hardly unlikely to kill from stabs too, and the blader can run and self heal when in trouble, so that brings up survival.

I am leaning towards a win by the blader. Might take a crit or 2, but he can wait as long as it takes, even with 100 crit perry, you will still get kd and stab crits in a row eventually. (I did get 4 crits in a row with a 2 crit weapon a few times).