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Thinking about a subclass for my rogue
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:49 am
by Deacon
Oke.. I am powerlvl'ing my rogue at the moment and it is lvl 70 now..
But i've been wondering what I should take for sub class.
Everyone will prolly shout cleric or bard. But I find them not that really usefull to be really honest with you guys.
Cleric;
For myself; Heal division and that shield.
For others; STR/INT, res, shield thingy, body blessing. But then I can't go back to roque so I find those things a waste. But a full cleric can also do this.
Bard;
For myself; Speed and Noise
For others; The tambours, speed. But then again I can't switch back to roque. And I find it a waste to take Noise cuz I won't ever grind myself.. and speed I can get from a bard in my party..
Now what my mind has been going to is... Warrior
I don't really why but I find Rogue + warrior a good combination.. But I don't know why and if I should.. So I really want some opinions from you guys.
Please enlighten me
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:51 am
by silverbreed
use thw warlock/cleric guide all skills that dont go away when u switch back again
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:53 am
by /Pi
A warlock sub perhaps? I'm trying to make this build. My rogue's only 11 though T.T
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:56 am
by Luukje
Deacon, I have a lvl 45 rogue/warrior ( abandoned ), its a funny build, but not really usefull either, sometimes i do this, lvl with rogue, and when i'm in danger switch to s/s and use iron skin.
Dunno if this helps you xD
ps. skip jij ook school voor FW?
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:59 am
by XemnasXD
Theres alot more to sub-classes for rogues that your giving credit too.
Cleric would be the safest one if your looking for an overall good subclass
Bard is mostly for leveling fasters but since your getting plvled i don't think thats an issue.
None of the warrior buffs last when you switch weapons and the only thing that carries over is heavy armor. I don't see the allure in having a whole tree of skills you can;t use while your playing as a rogue while moving alot slower if you choose to wear armor. The only benefit Warrior has as a sub-class is if you want to stand in as a back up warrior in case the party needs it. Since you don't party thats shouldn't be a problem either. That being said theres no reason to choose Warrior as a sub-class for Rogue, its pointless and does nothing to lift or take the build further in any direction.
Thats my reason for not choosing warrior so choose cleric, bard, or Warlock. If you want reason i have them in my guide but i don't feel like listing them all again. been done to many times in the C&S section...
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:31 am
by Crumpets
If vortexx reads this thread I'm sure he'll tell you about Warrior / Rouge.
It's quite a cool build tbh using 5 weapons and all ..
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:33 am
by Deacon
Crumpets wrote:If vortexx reads this thread I'm sure he'll tell you about Warrior / Rouge.
It's quite a cool build tbh using 5 weapons and all ..
cool.. Yes, but usefull? I dnno -.- people enlighten me please ^^
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:46 am
by XemnasXD
what possible use could using 5 weapons have.
Dagger- High Crit-very fast attack-high damage
Crossbow - High Crit fast attack- high damage-Range
2H Sword- low Crit- Slow Attack- High damage
1H Sword- low Crit- Fast attack- Very Low Damage
Axes- Low Crit- Fast Attack-Medium Damage
Theres no point in leaving the Rogue tree to find a good weapon. They out damage Axes and Sword without buffs and out crit 2H swords without buffs coupled with the fact that they have the strongest STR skill in the game and access to combos that can capitalize on there crit rate AND they have the longest range in the game.
Thered be absolutely no reason to switch from daggers to 2Hsword during a PvP battle, if you want KD and KB skills you can knock them around better with Xbow and if you have DD on your damage will be amazing. Im assuming your building this for PvP since you don't have a problem leveling and if thats the case stay away from Warrior.
The only reason why you would max the whole Rogue and Warrior tree is if you were planning on playing as a Warrior on the side which is not really the best way to plan out a rogue sub-class for a character thats about to be capped.
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:48 am
by Crumpets
XemnasXD wrote:what possible use could using 5 weapons have.
Dagger- High Crit-very fast attack-high damage
Crossbow - High Crit fast attack- high damage-Range
2H Sword- low Crit- Slow Attack- High damage
1H Sword- low Crit- Fast attack- Very Low Damage
Axes- Low Crit- Fast Attack-Medium Damage
Theres no point in leaving the Rogue tree to find a good weapon. They out damage Axes and Sword without buffs and out crit 2H swords without buffs coupled with the fact that they have the strongest STR skill in the game and access to combos that can capitalize on there crit rate AND they have the longest range in the game.
Thered be absolutely no reason to switch from daggers to 2Hsword during a PvP battle, if you want KD and KB skills you can knock them around better with Xbow and if you have DD on your damage will be amazing. Im assuming your building this for PvP since you don't have a problem leveling and if thats the case stay away from Warrior.
The only reason why you would max the whole Rogue and Warrior tree is if you were planning on playing as a Warrior on the side which is not really the best way to plan out a rogue sub-class for a character thats about to be capped.
It's called diversity.
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:51 am
by Sharp324
Crumpets wrote:If vortexx reads this thread I'm sure he'll tell you about Warrior / Rouge.
It's quite a cool build tbh using 5 weapons and all ..
lol yeah its interesting to watch vortex PvP, they try to run he pulls out a crossbow.
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:52 am
by XemnasXD
Diversity....handicapping yourself in a fight by switch to a weapon thats slower, does less damage, and crits less all for the sake of diversity.....no thats called retarded....You don't see Glaivers pulling out blades so they can dish out some easily potted damage, why would you expect Euros to do that...
This a a Rogue looking for a subclass...not a warrior looking for a subclass
Damage-wise, Range-wise, Speed-wise, Rogue is the Top of all Str Classes...now lets improve those odds by making that rogue better able to do what he already does amazingly well....not give him 3 new weapons that are worse than the ones he already has so he can deal out sh*tty warrior damage....
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:56 am
by Crumpets
XemnasXD wrote:Diversity....handicapping yourself in a fight by switch to a weapon thats slower, does less damage, and crits less all for the sake of diversity.....no thats called retarded....You don't see Glaivers pulling out blades so they can dish out some easily potted damage, why would you expect Euros to do that...
It's called diversity STILL.
Fighting fully sunned, or sun +9 people he will use either Xbow or 2H obviously.
But if theres a weaker let's say .. an obvious bad alchmied nuker he will whip out 1H and do one combo for fun and the nuker dies.
Sro ain't all serious buisness, it's about the being diverse .. thus having more fun.
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:56 am
by Deacon
XemnasXD wrote:Diversity....handicapping yourself in a fight by switch to a weapon thats slower, does less damage, and crits less all for the sake of diversity.....no thats called retarded....You don't see Glaivers pulling out blades so they can dish out some easily potted damage, why would you expect Euros to do that...
We got a blade / glavie char at oasis.. She pwns.. anyway.. I still dnno what to pick -.- Might just stay Rogue alone
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:03 am
by /Pi
Crumpets wrote:XemnasXD wrote:Diversity....handicapping yourself in a fight by switch to a weapon thats slower, does less damage, and crits less all for the sake of diversity.....no thats called retarded....You don't see Glaivers pulling out blades so they can dish out some easily potted damage, why would you expect Euros to do that...
It's called diversity STILL.
Fighting fully sunned, or sun +9 people he will use either Xbow or 2H obviously.
But if theres a weaker let's say .. an obvious bad alchmied nuker he will whip out 1H and do one combo for fun and the nuker dies.
Sro ain't all serious buisness, it's about the being diverse .. thus having more fun.
For the sake of diversity? You might as well go and make a Pure STR Nuker. That build would probably be the epitome of diversity and uniqueness.
Switching between five weapons might be fun for you but it's a hassle for most.
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:04 am
by phulshof
Warlock is a very good option, especially for pvp as long as you avoid clerics. Its debuffing spells are not depending on your INT score.
Considering you hardly ever grind by yourself, your other option would be cleric. Take 4 sub clerics in any party, and with constant bless you hardly have need for a real cleric anymore. It's also nice if you can play the role of cleric within the party, without the risk of dying immediately should a mob target you.
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:06 am
by XemnasXD
Crumpets wrote:XemnasXD wrote:Diversity....handicapping yourself in a fight by switch to a weapon thats slower, does less damage, and crits less all for the sake of diversity.....no thats called retarded....You don't see Glaivers pulling out blades so they can dish out some easily potted damage, why would you expect Euros to do that...
It's called diversity STILL.
Fighting fully sunned, or sun +9 people he will use either Xbow or 2H obviously.
But if theres a weaker let's say .. an obvious bad alchmied nuker he will whip out 1H and do one combo for fun and the nuker dies.
Sro ain't all serious buisness, it's about the being diverse .. thus having more fun.
since when were you all about fun?
If your Fighting Sunned people theres no need to go to 2H sword and rely on a crit that may or may not come Xbow will suffice. You could probably stun with heaven flash and then kill them with Daggers unless they're Bladers.
If its something weaker just kill it.
I don't see the point in farming a whole tree which is about 300k+ SP(it takes most people at least 2 months to do something like that) just so you can switch to a weaker weapon, handicap yourself, just so you can kill a weaker opponent and have more fun doing it...
farming is not fun. Farming for 2 months to get the SP needed to max 3 useless weapon trees + buffs does not sound fun at all...
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:14 am
by tedtwilliger
Only because it hasn't been mentioned, go wizard. It may not be as great as some of the others, but it can have serious benefits.
1st of all you can fear and bind someone. Now if you fear/bind someone, teleport away away, switch to crossbow and attack, it can be quite deadly.
Also if the situation calls for it, switch to staff, cast earth skin, the almost guaranteed kb move, mana drain and switch back to rogue.
And lets not forget that if its really needed, you can always chuck in an earth spell and hope for dull, or even a frost nuke and hope for freeze. Although this will cut down your mp by a lot, it can still be practical.
Though this build may not seem quite good compared to what other builds can offer, it really isnt such a bad thing. Most people will think of it as a joke, but it has its pro's.
And most importantly, its original. You wont find too many other people using it.
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:18 am
by Crumpets
Prophet Izaach wrote:Crumpets wrote:XemnasXD wrote:Diversity....handicapping yourself in a fight by switch to a weapon thats slower, does less damage, and crits less all for the sake of diversity.....no thats called retarded....You don't see Glaivers pulling out blades so they can dish out some easily potted damage, why would you expect Euros to do that...
It's called diversity STILL.
Fighting fully sunned, or sun +9 people he will use either Xbow or 2H obviously.
But if theres a weaker let's say .. an obvious bad alchmied nuker he will whip out 1H and do one combo for fun and the nuker dies.
Sro ain't all serious buisness, it's about the being diverse .. thus having more fun.
For the sake of diversity? You might as well go and make a Pure STR Nuker. That build would probably be the epitome of diversity and uniqueness.
Switching between five weapons might be fun for you but it's a hassle for most.
You do understand what I mean right? I guess not tho.
ALl I said was he has the choice of 5 weps. Not that he switches to all of them or has farmed all of them. Have you even seen a lvl 80 with this build? Nah didn't think so.
XemnasXD wrote: Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:06 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crumpets wrote:
XemnasXD wrote:
Diversity....handicapping yourself in a fight by switch to a weapon thats slower, does less damage, and crits less all for the sake of diversity.....no thats called retarded....You don't see Glaivers pulling out blades so they can dish out some easily potted damage, why would you expect Euros to do that...
It's called diversity STILL.
Fighting fully sunned, or sun +9 people he will use either Xbow or 2H obviously.
But if theres a weaker let's say .. an obvious bad alchmied nuker he will whip out 1H and do one combo for fun and the nuker dies.
Sro ain't all serious buisness, it's about the being diverse .. thus having more fun.
since when were you all about fun?
If your Fighting Sunned people theres no need to go to 2H sword and rely on a crit that may or may not come Xbow will suffice. You could probably stun with heaven flash and then kill them with Daggers unless they're Bladers.
If its something weaker just kill it.
I don't see the point in farming a whole tree which is about 300k+ SP(it takes most people at least 2 months to do something like that) just so you can switch to a weaker weapon, handicap yourself, just so you can kill a weaker opponent and have more fun doing it...
farming is not fun. Farming for 2 months to get the SP needed to max 3 useless weapon trees + buffs does not sound fun at all...
Firstly You don't know me, have never known me and will never know me.
And uhmm, who said anything about having to far mall trees? 300k SP is nothing now anyways, that's 2 weeks MAX if you get powerleveld. Yes offcourse hwould be handicapping himself if he used certain weps in certain situations. But You wouldn't unless you were having fun with someone. But you don't roll like that do ya, especially with your lvl 80 euro.. RIGHT ?
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:39 am
by XemnasXD
actually i was unioned with you on Olympus....i was with skurken so yeah...i know enough about you, more than i'd like too but people will gossip....
You'd be handicapping yourself PERIOD if you switched from a rouge weapon to a warrior weapon....theres nothing warrior weapons can do that rogue weapons can't do better....so yeah its a lose lose not matter how much you look at it.
A warrior has alot to gain from a Rogue sub-class but its not so true the other way around...
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:29 pm
by Naigasakis_Rebirth
deacon i'd suggest warlock sub. Not for you in 1 on 1 but in group situations debuffs are fskin amazing. Specially on oasis were people like niki are running around with full sun. You know what debuffs would do to sweettits?
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:37 pm
by Pred
Bard and Bard only.
Why?
When in Stealth, Moving march will help you track your prey.
When not in stealth, Moving March will help you chase down your enemy
When using Noise, low level non-champ/non-giant monsters will not attack you so you can use Stealth.
Warrior sub sucks.
Cleric sub sucks.
Warlock sub sucks.
I might add that I have a level 80 Rogue and have been playing it for a looooong time.
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:50 pm
by Nitro
XemnasXD wrote:what possible use could using 5 weapons have.
Dagger- High Crit-very fast attack-high damage
Crossbow - High Crit fast attack- high damage-Range
2H Sword- low Crit- Slow Attack- High damage
1H Sword- low Crit- Fast attack- Very Low Damage
Axes- Low Crit- Fast Attack-Medium Damage
Theres no point in leaving the Rogue tree to find a good weapon. They out damage Axes and Sword without buffs and out crit 2H swords without buffs coupled with the fact that they have the strongest STR skill in the game and access to combos that can capitalize on there crit rate AND they have the longest range in the game.
Thered be absolutely no reason to switch from daggers to 2Hsword during a PvP battle, if you want KD and KB skills you can knock them around better with Xbow and if you have DD on your damage will be amazing. Im assuming your building this for PvP since you don't have a problem leveling and if thats the case stay away from Warrior.
The only reason why you would max the whole Rogue and Warrior tree is if you were planning on playing as a Warrior on the side which is not really the best way to plan out a rogue sub-class for a character thats about to be capped.
2h sword is has the biggest critical after Xbow and Daggers ....
And it will be bigger at higher caps ....
It has passive for every 10 levels it gets 1 more critical ...
I have 13 Crit sword and 7 passive = 20 ... I crit like every 2-3 hit
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:14 pm
by XemnasXD
Nitrozz wrote:XemnasXD wrote:what possible use could using 5 weapons have.
Dagger- High Crit-very fast attack-high damage
Crossbow - High Crit fast attack- high damage-Range
2H Sword- low Crit- Slow Attack- High damage
1H Sword- low Crit- Fast attack- Very Low Damage
Axes- Low Crit- Fast Attack-Medium Damage
Theres no point in leaving the Rogue tree to find a good weapon. They out damage Axes and Sword without buffs and out crit 2H swords without buffs coupled with the fact that they have the strongest STR skill in the game and access to combos that can capitalize on there crit rate AND they have the longest range in the game.
Thered be absolutely no reason to switch from daggers to 2Hsword during a PvP battle, if you want KD and KB skills you can knock them around better with Xbow and if you have DD on your damage will be amazing. Im assuming your building this for PvP since you don't have a problem leveling and if thats the case stay away from Warrior.
The only reason why you would max the whole Rogue and Warrior tree is if you were planning on playing as a Warrior on the side which is not really the best way to plan out a rogue sub-class for a character thats about to be capped.
2h sword is has the biggest critical after Xbow and Daggers ....
And it will be bigger at higher caps ....
It has passive for every 10 levels it gets 1 more critical ...
I have 13 Crit sword and 7 passive = 20 ... I crit like every 2-3 hit
Crit max for daggers is 24 add that with the fact that daggers can deal out alot more damage in alot less time than warriors and daggers will definitely crit far more often....even at 100 cap with passive you'd only have 23 crit with that sword....like i said theres NOTHING warriors can do speed-wise, damage-wise, and range-wise that Rogues can't do better...switching to any warrior weapon for any situation other than using the shield to block would be a major step DOWN....
Bard sucks if you want to move faster go buy a potions and get 100% moving speed. Don't waste your SP on something like that. And without moving march the only thing it has to offer is Noise which is only good for PvE...
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:52 pm
by V0rt3x
Okay why choose warrior/rogue
1 main reason is u can use 5 weapon getting borded of 1 just switch the weapon. U can play tank or damage dealer so can adjust to the situation
Most usefull weapons for me are 2h/xbow
2H: use for party play
: PVP
: Protect party members for example wiz in thief pt
: Play tank
Xbow: Siege war
: grinding alone
: uniques
: Stealth for thiefing/ job wars
Weapon Switch:
Its indeed useless to switch weapons most of times u dont need it.
There are moments i use it and that is for ppl that phantom walk 1 distance shot will kill them.
1H
Since ur build is possible to get 1h why dont get.
Wizards are annoying to any build but u can tank them use ur vital increasse and get 27.8k hp Also possible to use for rogues that is what i do and u will win pretty much any wiz/rogue
1H also the best tank build arround keep using shield trash and sprint assault u can tank any sun user
Daggers:
Great damage kill most ppl in 2 skills if u dont crit
But i dont like dieing fast (thats why ppl go cleric as sub)
If u want to play a nasty fucker take it and do the hit and run tactic
Axes:
I see this build as a hybrid 1h/2h
I only like the protection passive (Cleric in pt with holy spell is better)
So dont skill this weapon only if u got the sp
BTW: i think warrior is the best to pvp no1 likes to get 1 hited or 1 hit ppl that isnt pvp in my eyes
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:02 pm
by klemmyez
me i m bored on pvp, no one wanna pvp me, when i m on cleric mode, people make a 2 vs 1,... still can 't kill me i use my bless shield skill, i switch on xbow and i kill the 2 man ... so easy they also doing a 3 vs 1 for kill me uhuhuh, sound like a pvp (player versus player).
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:05 pm
by V0rt3x
klemmyez wrote:me i m bored on pvp, no one wanna pvp me, when i m on cleric mode, people make a 2 vs 1,... still can 't kill me i use my bless shield skill, i switch on xbow and i kill the 2 man ... so easy they also doing a 3 vs 1 for kill me uhuhuh, sound like a pvp (player versus player).
So why dont u ask me for pvp
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:19 pm
by klemmyez
V0rt3x wrote:klemmyez wrote:me i m bored on pvp, no one wanna pvp me, when i m on cleric mode, people make a 2 vs 1,... still can 't kill me i use my bless shield skill, i switch on xbow and i kill the 2 man ... so easy they also doing a 3 vs 1 for kill me uhuhuh, sound like a pvp (player versus player).
So why dont u ask me for pvp
i don't wanna kill poeple form my union
i have kill a warrior from royals on pvp today :p
AND WARLOCK suck on pvp lol the only one warlock from blackguard, limao suck suck he can't kill people oO...
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:20 pm
by Pred
useless useless useless.
Don't you know the whole point / play style of a Rogue is to Stealth and to Solo?
Don't make a build that is offensive and defensive. You will LACK in one or even both.
Rogue + Cleric is worse than Rogue + Warrior
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:56 pm
by OwnedByFudge
I didnt do a sub... and I do just fine, and with NPC gear.
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:15 pm
by TeamLosi
Rogue and Cleric is useful but dumb, if your in a party with another Euro say maybe a Cleric, they will put Bless on if need be.
Bard is Only useful in PVE imo b/c you can always buy potions to make you go faster OR if you have a Wiz/Bard in your party.
Warrior allows you to tank if need be, say you get in a bind and have 2 giants spawn on you while grinding, noise wont protect you, Bless will but only for 45 Sec but you still have to run away from 2 giants. With Warrior you can switch to 1H for defense or 2H for knock down and if need be throw a Iron Skin.
Plus Rogues arnt meant for Tankers so why try to make them one? With DD or CE on Bless doesnt have Much increase on defense a little but not enough
And like Crumpets and Vortex said its fun and diverse