BOTS HAVE BEEN BANNED, THIS WAS AN ENJOYABLE TOPIC... GOOD JOB JM
B4 i start i would like to say if this is a misunderstanding on my part then; i deeply apologize to any calsualties in the line of fire. I also apologize to joymax who will most likely be hurt the most by what i am about 2 post. And i greatly apologize to the legit community that may leave this game due to possible misinformation.
****************************
now some rules:
1] if you dont understand what any body in this thread is talking about pls click back now
2] since i sense there to be use of flames i am warning you now i will ask a mod to edit your post
3] and if you didnt read the whole thing and you feel the urge to click "post reply" then pls click back its your best friend.
4] and lastly dont take this as a conspiracy theory, i hate conspiracy thoerist as much as the next guy or gal. think of it as a loaded question.
NOW I BEGIN:
****************************
The day i feared from the moment i discovered the potential dangers of 3rd party abuse has happened. the Company [Joymax] has removed any information regarding banning bots or the use of 3rd party software such as softmod bots etc out of their ToS'; that, i ,as well as, many others have signed. The Company has subtly made the act of botting and/or using softmod legal. Acts such as botting are no longer against the rules
. All this time we have been led along lied to, and decieved; some including myself may have spent real money on this game, but now its all pointless. dont believe me? here this should help you:effective from 3/14, 2006
effective from 3/14, 2006
this is NOT the date they modified the ToS, I, suspect it to be sometime between July and Oct of this year. That date applies to when they started enacting the rules in the ToS. As you an see they, the Company, refrained from modifiying [my spelling is bad sry] the date of change in order to ensure that no1 would notice them break section two of article two of chapter 1 of the ToS.
2. Provided that the Company has reasonable grounds and is in accordance to relevant laws, the Company has the right to change all or portion of the terms of this agreement. Any important modifications will be notified to the users through the game website 'Silkroad Online' (http://www.silkroadonline.net) in advance and it will be effective from the date in the notification. - section two article two of chapter 1 or 1.2.2
according to the company they may change any part of the ToS the see fit, but the must notify their users of such changes; they, the Company, has failed to do so because of the recent exclusion of the article which clearly stated that the use of any 3rd party applications such as bots or softmod will result in a termination of normal and premium services.
9. User shall not complain of problems that arise due to use of other software not by the Company in conjunction with the Company’s software.
the Company no longer allows the user to complain about flaws in the service of Silkroad Online; for this reason any questions regarding gold bots intown spam or general problems and bugs are ignored and/or left unchecked.
9. Company has no responsibility to mediate between conflicts that arise between users or between the user and a 3rd party service or any responsibility toward any compensation for any problems that arise because of this.
nuff said... for those of you who are still in disbelief here is a copy of the ToS:
EDIT:
@cruor,
Cruor wrote:See section 5.2 of the Operation Policy.Operation Policy wrote:5.2 Users found to be using or distributing illegal programs may be subject to restrictions of their account or have their account deleted. In particular cases, the user may be subject to investigation by the proper authorities.
Cruor in most cases when you make a post its over, no more to post; because in most cases we are not dealing with joymax themselves, but with some other form of legitamcy. This time that is not the case, in the Joymax Operation policy they directly contradict themselves; first they post the vauge [sp] 5.2 which is left open for interpretation, then further down in section 8.1 they overide 5.2 by; stating specifically what you can be banned for, and for how long. There is nothing regarding the use of 3rd party applications.
EDIT:
in chapter 2 of the ToS, you will notice it jumps from article 2 - 4 [there is no 3]. article 3 was the part pertaining to banning bots. now you know it was edited.
ANOTHER EDIT:
Response to:
"5.2 Users found to be using or distributing illegal programs may be subject to restrictions of their account or have their account deleted. In particular cases, the user may be subject to investigation by the proper authorities."
Joymax Operation Policy - Link
It only conflicts if you do not know what it says. They in fact do not conflict. 5.2 is about 3rd party programs item duping, botting, and the like. 8.1 reiterates but is not limited to 5.2 and covers situations with not involving 3rd party programs but regarding player conduct and interaction.
The reason for the less specific language may not have conspiratory overtones either. From a legal standpoint it is more correct. Because no matter how much we whine about botting it is only one of many 3rd party programs. By making the clause more vague they are keeping it more universal. If it were bot this and bot that then someone might sucessfully argue the clause didn't cover things other than botting. Unless of course joymax then went into detail on each and every individual possibility of 3rd party programs. Contracts and TOS are hard enough to read as is. Especially considering the reading level and comprehension of the average american etc. The last thing we need is a longer one with more legaleese to parse. Short sweet and open is fine. All that is required is enforcement.
And of course the lawsuit rights that they reserve - they reserve the right to sue anyone who distributes illegal programs or perform any kind of in-game punishment on him.
I don't think the changes in the ToS really makes "botting legal" as the title of the post says. You just fit their ToS to the accusations that they support botting (from their lack of action, no argue there) and blame them for it.
Just my 2 cents,
Legionx.
The section regarding botting [section 3 of chapter 2] has been deleted; notice 2 jumps directly to 4. Another thing, Joymax themselves has broken thier own ToS by; editing the ToS without informing the isro community which is cleary stated they wouldnt do in the first quote on my first post. section 5.2 may say illegal applications, but because of their lack of operational definitons [as is neccesary on any legal document] it is unclear exactly what illegal stands for.
it says users found to be using or distributing illegal programs, are bot programs illegal, no, and joymax doesnt say anywhere in its TOS that such programs are deemed illegal to use with their software...so again, its all left to interpretation
And lastly in section 8.1 of the operation policy of joymax it cleary states what and why you can be banned. there is nothing regarding the use of illegal applications which may i add have yet to be defined as 3rd party applications such as the white finger
so lets recap:
1] section 5.2 says illegal but fails to define said term
2] section 8.1 then takes the liberty to specify what you can be banned for, but fails to mention the application of 3rd party software.
3] joymax or the company has removed a vital section from a legal document without informing their users of such a change. it is cleraly stated that they will inform us of all changes to the TOS, they FAILED to inform us of deleting the part regarding how bots would be dealed with.
4] therefore the only conclusion one can arive 2 is that joymax by using under handed tactics and to preserve w/e dignity they may have left secretly removed any and all articles regarding the use of 3rd party applications; at the same time they fail to define illegal applications as 3RD party software/applications.
also the only one who can clear the air now, and fix the current anarchy is joymax themselves. Joymax is the only one who can tell us what is illegal and what isnt, but because they eliminated the part [section 3 of chapter 2 or 2.3 of the Tos] refering to bots and sofmod etc which were, at that time, cleary defined as illegal.
5] so what is the conclusion? well since they no longer define 3rd party sotware as illegal you cant according to that ToS which we all signed and hopefully read define botting as illegal; Therefore because of a serious lack of concrete explanations botting is legal Until Joymax reinstates section 2.3 of thier ToS, or bans a bot; i aint trying to log into a game where bots may do as they wish because of a korean companies hypocrisy.
This might also include players complaining about bots, spambots, goldbots and any other type of cheating or illegal activity done by a 3rd party program. In my eyes though, what they tried to say in this section is that a user can't complain regarding any kind of problem that arises from USING a 3rd party software (ex: being hacked after downloading a bot that turns out to be a key logger!).
i agree with this 100%
Doh, I totally support this! Why would they want to help a player get the gold he bought from bots?! I'd ban anyone who tells them through official means that he bought gold.
i also agree with this part as well
as i type this im sending an email to joymax informing them on what i find to be gross stupidity on thier part, as well as, a well stated thesis on why they should define illegal applications
- Barotix
*************************************
i told myself i wouldnt post in this thread, but my bro convinced me i left to much stuff in the air and as an srfer i must at all cost finish what i started + i love debates.
it hurts so bad, when i noticed it was gone it really hurts damn jomax...
.
Latest addition