Bow to be the best build now?

MrFudge · Post by **MrFudge** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:40 am

after the skills update, theyll prob have the most hp (if they get heuksal passive), theyll be the fastest with garmets, and theyll have range and stun and knockback.

Is it just me or is it a bad time to be a bower? I used to feel great knowing i was one of the few daring bowmen (sooo many glaviers) , but now are we gonna see bows everywhere? :cry:

Ell · Post by **Ell** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:43 am

MrFudge wrote:after the skills update, theyll prob have the most hp (if they get heuksal passive), theyll be the fastest with garmets, and theyll have range and stun and knockback.

Is it just me or is it a bad time to be a bower? I used to feel great knowing i was one of the few daring bowmen (sooo many glaviers) , but now are we gonna see bows everywhere?

Why would they have anymore hp than a glaive? Why would they be faster? Also it's true they have knockback and stun but their damage isn't that great.

MrFudge · Post by **MrFudge** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:44 am

ok fine same hp as glavie, same speed as glavie cuz of garms, more range knock back and stun.

Ell · Post by **Ell** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:50 am

Ok so they have everything a glaive has except more range but less damage. If it were me, I would still take the damage over the range.

aznshadow · Post by **aznshadow** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:55 am

If bow got spear passive they'd have no ice.. if they got ice they'd give up hueksal.... def or hp either way they'll lack one of them... Also, we hardly know what the KB and Stun % on bows are

Still, bow won't be as uber as many ppl think

karlek33 · Post by **karlek33** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:18 am

If they are really going to be the best builds I'll delevel my Heuskal on my pure Str just for that

...But at the moment bow character can just blow me - they suck alot...

SoBlu · Post by **SoBlu** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:13 am

They seem to be getting skills they deserve finally, but it wont balance until ur really high level.

The big difference with bows was not the skills anyways.

They needed more speed for there arrows, and better bow crits.

All i see is a few adjustments to make bow users at least endgame worthwhile.

[SD]Frites · Post by **[SD]Frites** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:25 am

Archers are not stronger now. they haven't updated it yet and I don't think they will do that soon

Waisha · Post by **Waisha** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:28 am

omg. stop whining at bows lol. its just good that they balance the game.

tomiotar · Post by **tomiotar** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:07 am

Ell wrote:Ok so they have everything a glaive has except more range but less damage. If it were me, I would still take the damage over the range.

You should go to see the damage contest. Devil arrow and strong bow are the most damging skills up to now and when they crit they can go higher even than nukes. Problems for bows are not damage, the problem is the time that take the skill to be performed and the fact that during that time a glavier can stun or KB and bladers KD cancelling our skills.

PD: But dont worry, we will not get those skill in a long time.

iGod · Post by **iGod** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:10 am

MrFudge wrote:....theyll prob have the most hp (if they get heuksal passive).

nope... s/s b/s with hekusal passive will always have the most hp.

IceCrash · Post by **IceCrash** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:45 am

tomiotar wrote:
Ell wrote:Ok so they have everything a glaive has except more range but less damage. If it were me, I would still take the damage over the range.

You should go to see the damage contest. Devil arrow and strong bow are the most damging skills up to now and when they crit they can go higher even than nukes. Problems for bows are not damage, the problem is the time that take the skill to be performed and the fact that during that time a glavier can stun or KB and bladers KD cancelling our skills.

PD: But dont worry, we will not get those skill in a long time.

o rly? Funny how im lvl 61 and when i crit both times i hit with sss(im hybrid int) i do a lot more dmg than a nuke from a pure int

Nyahgis · Post by **Nyahgis** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:03 am

Lets break this down... These 'spectacular' skills won't show until the 90 cap and the 300 mastery limit will still be around to plague us. Lets see what the situation for that ends up being.

A pure str bow [because I won't consider anything else at this time], will have 90 fire [I assume you want the max fire passive, which you get at the 90 cap] and 90 pacheon. This leaves you with 120 masteries left. I assume you don't want to be a slow ass, so you'll stick probably around 60~70 into lightning [mind you, capping lightning out at the 90 cap would give you 77% increased movement.] So that leaves you with 50~60 mastery points. Your options now are to allocate them into ice, heuksai, or dump them all into light. If you dump them all into light, you'll have 30 remaining, and wherever you stick the remaining 30 won't benefit you at all. Dump 50~60 into ice and you'll get a measely physical defense increase that probably isn't worth it. Stick them into spear and enjoy 7xx~1078 extra hp. Conclusion... You won't have the same amount hp as a glaiver or int spear. [Remember; new skills = new passives. Our hp passive will now go to lvl 9]

Alright, now that we have set that asside, I'll assume the common build for damn near anything will be 90 weapon, 90 light, 90 fire. People will probably be creative to try and fit ice into the equation but who cares. Either way, you'll gimp yourself in either speed, physical damage increase, or damage that the mastery level itself yields you. [Remember... each increase in mastery lvl = 1% damage increase on a skill used from that tree.] Yeah... gg Joymax, the cookie cutter build system is only starting to show up more and more... We might not have the same stat distribution but atleast we'll all be using the same bloody masteries.

Anyways... lets get a bit closer to breaking down the PVP.

What I've gathered up until this point is that the skill percentage didn't go up; only the actual damage did. ie... 123~345 (300%) => 345 ~ 678 (300%) kinda've a thing. Since our defense from gear will also increase significantly + we can add more str and hp to our gear, I'll say that this crappy increase in damage will do jackshit. Assumption => other than the affect the new books will yield, we can assume damage output relative to our hp to be fairly equivalent to that of the current cap. [If the skill percentage damage did increase, please correct me.]

So, seeing that the pvp will not radically change relative to the current cap, lets see what we can do looking at what 'extra' things we will get from the new books that might drastically revolutionize pvp and the current balances that are set up [ie... in 1 vs 1, pure str glaiver fairs best, assuming fairly similar gear.]

BLADER: Gains an extra stab. Oh yay, bladers can now stab you 4 times. Oh noes! The damage is still shitty, so don't expect them to start dropping other builds like flies. On the other hand, their passive now also gives them 10% increased block when maxed. Conclusion: Bladers still can't kill in pvp, and they'll be even more annoying to kill.

GLAIVER: Gains more hp from the passive [no idea on the numbers yet]. Gains another sss like skill and another GSM. The glaiver will now probably switch from SSS, SST, and GSM to new SSS, SSS, and new GSM. What do we get out of this? Glaivers will stun you more, and glaivers will have even more hp. So, much like the current cap, they'll still be a bitch to kill if they are decently geared [garm set +4, full blues].

INT: with S/S, the int will have to give up both heuksai and ice. This will drop their survivability quite significantly. On the other hand, they gain more block and another stab like the bladers. In the end, they'll probably perform as they do at this cap with the chance of dropping easier to a crit. With a spear, see glaiver minus the survivability. [Although an int hybrid spear + hp passive might actually rise to the top as it would set a fairly big difference between hps compared to a pure int S/S. But we'll have to see.]

Alright, now that we have summed up the 3/4 most common builds, lets move on to bow and how they'll fare in pvp against the other builds.

We have seen that the bow gains a knockback like skill and a stunning skill. It also seems that the timing on the strongbow stun skill has decreased, but it appears to do less damage than berserker and the new antidevil.

A str bows biggest issue in pvp at this cap and the last was that stun, knockback, and knockdown barely allowed it to get off any skills and that they were amazingly vulnerable to attacks while letting off their own. How does having a knockback skill and stun like skill change this all? None really... Against a blader, you will still not be able to kill him nor visa versa. Against a glaiver, you might end up stalemating the fight [much like this cap because of the XL-pots] simply because you both pot out your damage while the other is being stunned/knocked back, although the fact that the glaiver's skills are faster, it might be that you would still end up getting raped... Against a pure int S/S, the fight would probably turn a bit more in your favor as you wouldn't be kd'd as much and they have to give up physical defense and hp. A fight like that would probably turn out into a 50/50 fight depending on whose side luck favors. Against a hybrid/spear int, pray for quick and frequent crits, or suffer the same problem as you would with a glaiver.

CONCLUSION [READ THIS IF YOU HATE READING TOO MUCH]
Nothing will change in pvp.

That's my 2 cent ranting.

EDIT: Fixed some spelling errors
2ndEDIT: for your info

ice passive 132 phy def
Heuksal passive 2896 hp
Fire passive 9 % phy attack

SextoEspada · Post by **SextoEspada** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:24 pm

why would it be flooded with bows if they have the same speed and same hp as glaivers but less damage? even if you stun, the person can just pot/pill and as soon as they get in front of you, you're still screwed

HakubiNi · Post by **HakubiNi** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:30 pm

It doesn't have to be the best, as long as it makes the game better balanced it wll be great.

dE4 · Post by **dE4** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:47 pm

Simple short answer...the best build is best gear build...there is no best class in sro and never will be.

Pacheon users dont get heuksal hp bonus unless they add heuksal.

Skitsefrenik · Post by **Skitsefrenik** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:48 pm

Watch everybody switch back to ice now. Freeze/Frost bite/Stun/Knock back. Yeah some people are immune to ice but not everybody.

dE4 · Post by **dE4** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:53 pm

Skitsefrenik wrote:Watch everybody switch back to ice now. Freeze/Frost bite/Stun/Knock back. Yeah some people are immune to ice but not everybody.

Ice is superb for ints/hybs thnx to the new ice skill.
It converts xx% dmg taken to loss in mp(bad for pure str

) and its a few mins long puff with short cooldown.

vanom · Post by **vanom** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:58 pm

now they are definately not the strongest. the new skills u've seen is just ksro beta and might be modified, w/e. archer are now already faster than any other build, just b/c of their range. just because they have stun and knockdown, they're not gonna be that overpowered. i more fear their 4th and 5th book anti devil bow. and without having seen the damage and % of their new skill, i would not make some consideration rite now -.-

NuclearSilo · Post by **NuclearSilo** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:00 pm

Why would u all care about pvp since sro will be dominated with war in castle siege?
Let's try to move on another debate how to fight in group of fight.

Btw, i'll try to convince JM to change the the fire shield bug, reduce effect by units, and remove buff when shield is not equiped

desolator144 · Post by **desolator144** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:08 pm

dude they always have been the best. I'm spear and people run away swearing when I put on the fire wall tower skill (or ice wall if they're str) and I get like 2 free nukes on them before they can even damage me

If I didn't have nukes, it'd be pretty useless but the range on that is limited. If I had a bow, I could stand in one place and hit them with tons of bow skills and they'd be helpless. Adding stun and knockback just makes it more ridiculous

Skitsefrenik · Post by **Skitsefrenik** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:20 pm

Did you guys see the new birdy skill? It turns into a giant phoenix and u can ride it and shoot arrows down from the sky!

HBblade · Post by **HBblade** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:40 pm

why the f... would bowers have glave's hp, unless ur going 4 masteries, which is near impossible if they ever go up to 90. bows will still have lowest hp, low defence, & distance can easily be closed w/ phantom walk (& a bower w/ a bad video card will never have any distance advantage)

so...w/ new skills and cap a bower will have kb & stun, so wat, not like it'll happen often, since their skills take a while to discharge anyway, a glaive will still stun/kb more than them & a blade will still kd more also

& to be able to get new skills ur masteries have to be high, so 4 masteries going down the drain, so means a bow probably wont be able to have ice or heuksal mastery without sacrificing fire or light. and yes it seems every str build needs fire, & every build out there needs light (unless you like buying drugs of w/e all the time).

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:00 pm

Skitsefrenik wrote:Did you guys see the new birdy skill? It turns into a giant phoenix and u can ride it and shoot arrows down from the sky!

really? O_o [i'm thinking this is sarcasm but that'd be cool

]

borat2 · Post by **borat2** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:34 pm

Nyahgis

nice info
this game is not a 1on1 game in the end teamwork will rule the game maybe that is why people fear the Vn and the TR so much.
no matter how strong your build/gear are teamwork will win anything.

guess the only problem is that we got to wait another 2 years before we ever get those skills.

PsYch008 · Post by **PsYch008** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:41 pm

Skitsefrenik wrote:Did you guys see the new birdy skill? It turns into a giant phoenix and u can ride it and shoot arrows down from the sky!

omg no wai@!!!!! phoenix!!! pwnagerofl.

your avatar looks like she gettin some sweet sweet lovin. :-P

borat2 · Post by **borat2** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:45 pm

PsYch008 wrote:
Skitsefrenik wrote:Did you guys see the new birdy skill? It turns into a giant phoenix and u can ride it and shoot arrows down from the sky!

omg no wai@!!!!! phoenix!!! pwnagerofl.

your avatar looks like she gettin some sweet sweet lovin.

he forgot that if you are out of arrows and got a wolf that you can launch your wolf to the enemy. (stolen from final fantasy)

desolator144 · Post by **desolator144** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:27 pm

why the f... would bowers have glave's hp, unless ur going 4 masteries, which is near impossible if they ever go up to 90.

ummm I have 5 areas. Just delvled my bow area to 0 cuz I decided it was stupid (used to have 6) I'm just gonna stop the healing skill at like 40 or something so I don't hit the cap.

GodsAngel · Post by **GodsAngel** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:53 pm

by the time stronghold wars comes out, Im thinking Euro will come out too and no one will care about bows or glaivers.

IguanaRampage · Post by **IguanaRampage** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:27 am

Lol next time you watch the new bow skills video, watch the hp of the glaive he's fighting :roll:

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Bow to be the best build now?

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