Silkroad Online Forums

I sent Joymax an email about silk items being sold in stalls and this is the reply I received

EDIT: seems like they don't care ^^

Lol, you removed little black and red boxes now?

I think it would make lots of players come back...
Premium/Pickup pet bought with gold = priceless.

Nitro wrote:Lol, you removed little black and red boxes now?

I think it would make lots of players come back...
Premium/Pickup pet bought with gold = priceless.

If silk items were sold in stalls I would seriously consider coming back

Nitro wrote:Lol, you removed little black and red boxes now?

I think it would make lots of players come back...
Premium/Pickup pet bought with gold = priceless.

The CCFing people would do would be huge.

You cant chargeback anymore... you dont get your cash back.

Nitro wrote:You cant chargeback anymore... you dont get your cash back.

^^ this, if you chargeback you get banned but you don't get any money. Joymax loses nothing.

Its easy to make gold, i would buy a prem just to login and the game would be fine for me..

seems like they used the same template they use for everyone else

Be happy with it, some people in my guild are buying 1000+ silk just to get a couple mill -_-


EDIT: and an hour later they are complaining why there are no trades in our uni..

Mindy wrote:

Nitro wrote:Lol, you removed little black and red boxes now?

I think it would make lots of players come back...
Premium/Pickup pet bought with gold = priceless.

The CCFing people would do would be huge.

It would seem a good way to alleviate the chargeback issue is to not allow the sale of item mall items in your stall until you are above a certain level. Perhaps Joymax should only allow "Senior" members, as in lvl 80+ or something, to sell these items in their stalls. That way people can't create a lvl 1, sell their stuff, and charge back. I would think people would be less likely to chargeback on a lvl 80+ account for this purpose, botted or not.

The ones that do can be dealt with appropriately.

2 Points of view..
1. You dont have to spend all ur real money to get ur pick-up pet alive again. *woot*.
2. You get mommys-credit-card-whores who will even get suns faster, because they sell premiums for suns !

PR0METHEUS wrote:

Mindy wrote:

Nitro wrote:Lol, you removed little black and red boxes now?

I think it would make lots of players come back...
Premium/Pickup pet bought with gold = priceless.

The CCFing people would do would be huge.

It would seem a good way to alleviate the chargeback issue is to not allow the sale of item mall items in your stall until you are above a certain level. Perhaps Joymax should only allow "Senior" members, as in lvl 80+ or something, to sell these items in their stalls. That way people can't create a lvl 1, sell their stuff, and charge back. I would think people would be less likely to chargeback on a lvl 80+ account for this purpose, botted or not.

The ones that do can be dealt with appropriately.

goddammit you can't chargeback anymore so its completely irrelevant

edit: I think the ability to sell silk items in stalls would also cut down on gold selling since people would buy silk and sell premiums rather than gold.

Disconn3cted wrote:goddammit you can't chargeback anymore so its completely irrelevant

edit: I think the ability to sell silk items in stalls would also cut down on gold selling since people would buy silk and sell premiums rather than gold.

Ok calm down. I haven't played SRO in some time, and I have never even purchased silk, so I wouldn't have any idea if chargeback is even possible. Besides, part of the point of my post was "even if chargeback was possible. I suppose yes it is irrelevant since chargeback isn't possible then.

All the people who make the "you can't 'chargeback' anymore" statement, need to get in touch with reality.

loveisintheair wrote:All the people who make the "you can't 'chargeback' anymore" statement, need to get in touch with reality.

Explain? Any proof?

loveisintheair wrote:All the people who make the "you can't 'chargeback' anymore" statement, need to get in touch with reality.

You can't, I know someone that tried recently. They got an email that said something about how joymax gave them their silk and they never got an money back.

loveisintheair wrote:All the people who make the "you can't 'chargeback' anymore" statement, need to get in touch with reality.

Check his previous posts n u know this guy is an idiot.

U can't chargeback anymore.
Even with unauthorised transaction.
With unauthorised transaction, u need to call bank, stop your cc. File in a dispute with the bank, wait 45 days for bank to resolve it.
End of day, they most likely will find proof that you are the one purchasing the silks.
Unless u've got everything ready towards your favor prooving that you haven't play that SRO account at all.
So what happen when the bank realise that u've filing a false dispute?
Most likely get blacklisted and don't get ur money back.

I think Joymax has like an automated system or something.

It just picks up key words and chooses from a list of responses..

Nitro wrote:

loveisintheair wrote:All the people who make the "you can't 'chargeback' anymore" statement, need to get in touch with reality.

Explain? Any proof?

Since you asked nicely and without any attitude I'll reply to you.

Generally speaking, people are not using the correct terminology. "Chargeback" is not something you do; it’s something a creditor/payment gateway will do. The term “chargeback” (unless you use it as a verb) is actually an outcome and NOT a process. A chargeback is when an entity debits for the return of its funds paid in the past. Initiation of the process is called “filing a dispute”.

If you use PayPal, there are 5 parties involved.
- You (the “client”)
- Your Bank/Credit Card Company (AKA your “creditor”)
- The payment gateway (my bank uses the term IPSP – Internet Payment Service Provider), which in this case is PayPal
- The entity you are paying to (in this case Joymax)
- Merchant’s Bank/Financial Institution (Joymax’s Bank in this case)

When you purchase Silk on Joymax’s website, the following happens (a lot of administrative and technical steps are omitted to get straight to the point):

- You use the credit card that has been issued to you by your Bank/CCC to “debit” for funds from that financial institution. Better yet, you pay for something with THEIR money
- PayPal acts as a generic Payment Service Provider in order to perform the transaction (money transfer) between yours and merchant’s financial institutions.
- Once this process is complete (there are numerous intermediate processes called “pre-authorization” followed by “authorization”, etc but I omitted those; they are irrelevant here) the merchant (Joymax) receives a monetary credit from its financial institution.

Joymax cashes in its credit; this is their revenue.
You get a credit card bill (they money you owe your financial institution); this is your obligation of payment.

Now at this point, all the little SRO/SRF kids (knowing nothing about the transaction process itself) scream that a “chargeback” is going to PayPal resolution center and punching a few keys with a few fancy words, and then crossing your fingers and hoping to get PayPal to reverse the PAYPAL TRANSACTION.

In actual fact, chargeback (see the definition above) can occur on 2 levels here. Either PayPal can debit its funds back from the merchant’s bank, or, your financial institution can debit its funds back from the IPSP (PayPal). The important thing to understand is, for the millionth time: CHARGEBACK is NOT a process, it’s an OUTCOME. In order for a chargeback to occur, you must win your dispute.

And at this point, it is all up to you. If you can prove to PayPal – whatever it is that you want to prove (I will not comment on this) – you may or may not succeed. The reason for that is because PayPal is an intermediate service, and does not take anyone’s side.

The entity that will take your side is your financial institution. If you file a dispute with them, they will (in most cases) return the money, primarily, because of bias (you are their client; they want to make sure that you are happy with them). Whether you filed a dispute morally/lawfully, is no longer between you and Joymax, it’s between you, your financial institution and local authorities. This however, is irrelevant.

What’s relevant is what happens when you file a dispute with your financial institution and not PayPal:

- Your Bank/CCC debits for its funds back from PayPal
- PayPal (having lost money) now debits funds from the merchant’s bank
- The merchant bank presents its client (Joymax) with a “negative” bill, meaning that the client must now pay (return) the funds.

But as I said, the majority of people seem to think that a “chargeback” is whining and crying to PayPal hoping to get your money back, which doesn’t seem to be as easy anymore as most little boys and girls hoped for.

Karras wrote:

loveisintheair wrote:All the people who make the "you can't 'chargeback' anymore" statement, need to get in touch with reality.

Check his previous posts n u know this guy is an idiot.

U can't chargeback anymore.
Even with unauthorised transaction.
With unauthorised transaction, u need to call bank, stop your cc. File in a dispute with the bank, wait 45 days for bank to resolve it.
End of day, they most likely will find proof that you are the one purchasing the silks.
Unless u've got everything ready towards your favor prooving that you haven't play that SRO account at all.
So what happen when the bank realise that u've filing a false dispute?
Most likely get blacklisted and don't get ur money back.

Clearly you've never done it, because you are speaking hypothetically. In actual fact, a bank/CCC cannot (and doesn't need to) verify that. If you have a credit card, take a look at the agreement that your financial insitution gave you along with it. You will see just how wrong you are.

Karras wrote:

loveisintheair wrote:All the people who make the "you can't 'chargeback' anymore" statement, need to get in touch with reality.

Check his previous posts n u know this guy is an idiot.

U can't chargeback anymore.
Even with unauthorised transaction.
With unauthorised transaction, u need to call bank, stop your cc. File in a dispute with the bank, wait 45 days for bank to resolve it.
End of day, they most likely will find proof that you are the one purchasing the silks.
Unless u've got everything ready towards your favor prooving that you haven't play that SRO account at all.
So what happen when the bank realise that u've filing a false dispute?
Most likely get blacklisted and don't get ur money back.

Well that's the way it should be. In the end, silk itself is a service. If it were a product, you could purchase it, claim it was faulty, or not the right size, or something and return it. It's not like Joymax can give you defective silk, or give you silk that doesn't live up to its advertisement. So if you buy silk, and get silk, you don't get your money back, especially if you use the silk.

loveisintheair wrote:... pile of shit ....

Y do u tell ppl how many pts are involved?
Y do u tell ppl what happens when they buy silk of JM site?

Nitro said

Explain, Any Proof?

All u did was explain. And what u explained was general knowledge.
Stop telling ppl that they can get their money back from JM thru chargeback.

U cant get your money back thru "Charge Back" anymore.
If you are desperate of getting your money back, try filing a dispute with your CC company while at the same time file an "Unauthorised Transaction" with PP.

Like I said b4, it takes 45 working days for your bank to investigate. And u might get blacklisted if they found out that you are filing a false claim.

Blacklist means you'll not b able to apply for a CC for a certain period of time.

loveisintheair wrote:...The entity that will take your side is your financial institution....

This particular statement that you mentioned is VERY VERY VERY wrong. All CC companies charge a 2.X% fee on transactions. JM is paying that 2.X%.

we were able to trade silk items through stalls when silks first came, CCFers abused, joymax removed

iztupido wrote:we were able to trade silk items through stalls when silks first came, CCFers abused, joymax removed

I just don't think you should be able to get your money back once the silk that was purchased was actually used.

I guess it's not worth the hassle for Joymax to handle those situations and so they just remove the feature.

Karras wrote:All u did was explain. And what u explained was general knowledge.
Stop telling ppl that they can get their money back from JM thru chargeback.

U cant get your money back thru "Charge Back" anymore.
If you are desperate of getting your money back, try filing a dispute with your CC company while at the same time file an "Unauthorised Transaction" with PP.

Like I said b4, it takes 45 working days for your bank to investigate. And u might get blacklisted if they found out that you are filing a false claim.

Blacklist means you'll not b able to apply for a CC for a certain period of time.

And what do you know about the chargeback/dispute process? What is your professional qualification to make your false claims?

Joymax is the merchant, they charge for a service. Getting your money back -FROM YOUR BANK- is a simple process.

Especially for a service.

ESPECIALLY if they're out of the country (they're batting 1000.)

Here - want to find out if you can chargeback? Reach into your pocket. Pull out your credit card. Flip it around. There's a 1-800 number listed there: "In case your card is lost or stolen...."

Call that number. Ask the friendly operator who answers: "I am about to purchase a service online, and I'm not sure if they'll deliver the service they promise. If they do not deliver this service, can I dispute the charge?"

Want to know what the operator will say? I'll tell you what the operator will say:

"Yes, you can."

The fraud/bad product rules for credit card transactions (including Visa/MC branded debit cards) have not changed. If I get a computer in the mail, and it's not what was advertised, I can call up my CC and say: "They advertised THIS and I got THIS? WTF?" - I get a dispute filed - and it's up to the bank what to do. Joymax can't say shit.

Plus - fighting a debit by Joymax is easy (taking notes?)

Just tell your bank to head on over to Silkroad.net - and TRY to login with their client.

LMAO. You'll get your cash back. Joymax won't like it - and most certainly you'll lose your account, but I say the whatever dollar amount you spent - is worth more than any lame-ass SRO account. How do I know this crap? I deal with it everyday. It's part of my job.

If you want the full-out details, there's only 1 post in this thread that tells the truth:

loveisintheair's post.

If you want to know what Joymax has to worry about:
http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/ ... chants.pdf

Look at page 72. The inability to login - denies you of your service. It's open-close - black and white - clear as day.

All you need to provide for evidence to the bank:

Google search - can't login to silkroad servers - 8.6 million hits

Silkroad servers always full = 67K hits

Silkroad servers never open = 30k hits

[ BTW: It takes a merchant/cc fraud-loss-prevention guy to know how to beat a merchant at the chargeback process. HIIIII! ]

Join the thousands of users just like you - who are defrauded by SRO into buying a service they can never use. ( And here's the good thing: If SRO gets something like 5% of their transactions as chargebacks - they'll get sanctioned by Visa/MC. - a nice pretty sanction of thousands, up to tens of thousands or more - plus potential revocation of their merchant status. A fitting punishment. )

Everyone else is a putz pulling answers out of their ass.

+1 to above

Scenario: A new player makes an account, sees great videos about the game, reads the game mechanics, and is interested on starting his 1st acc. with this "amazing" Item Mall items, after reading there effect/benefits, charges 1k silk before even making his 1st character, (starting the game). The customer installs the game and is ready to start his 1st acc. and buy from Item Mall, sadly he/she finds out that he can't even Login to the fcking game, he reads that he is on a "waiting list" to login, checks in 10 mins, still not login, 1hr, not loging, 3hrs not loging, frustrated, unistalls the "fcking" game cuz he can't login, so he wants his $100 dollars back, are you all telling me that I can't dispute my stole $100 dollars....lol

I know the above scenario is unlikely, but any silk buyer can complain about a "service"
this could be a player with previous silk history, maybe he charge $50 to buy the 28 day gold ticket (not premium), he becomes dissatisfy cuz is nearly impossible to use the "service" under the current conditions (severs full 24/7) so he wants his $ back. maybe paypal will verify if it is possible to use the "service" he pay for lol.

kyanwan wrote:....

Theres nothing false abt your post. But it just doesn't work anymore when ur silks has been spent.
Listen, SILK HAS BEEN SPENT/USED.
Bank will look at evidence u provide over evidence JM provides.
Look, we are looking at ppl who want to chargeback after they spent the silks. Not b4.

Look at the other chargeback posts with evidence, the reply clearly said that your claim failed because the silk was spent.

If you think you can chargeback n get your money back AFTER spending your silk. Go ahead, try it.

I know because I tried it. What Kyanwan said was correct BUT u can only get your cash provided the silks were not touched.

kyanwan wrote:If SRO gets something like 5% of their transactions as chargebacks - they'll get sanctioned by Visa/MC. - a nice pretty sanction of thousands, up to tens of thousands or more - plus potential revocation of their merchant status. A fitting punishment. )

The rules for sanctioning a merchant are even harsher where I live. What you said though, is true in general, especially nationwide - USA.

As for actually doing it, so that Joymax would be punished by VISA/MC on SRO players' behalf... well you said it yourself:

kyanwan wrote:Everyone else is a putz pulling answers out of their ass.

Anyway, I'm glad that there is at least one person here who is fimiliar with the process. Kudos Dude.

TillTheEnd wrote:+1 to above

Scenario: A new player makes an account, sees great videos about the game, reads the game mechanics, and is interested on starting his 1st acc. with this "amazing" Item Mall items, after reading there effect/benefits, charges 1k silk before even making his 1st character, (starting the game). The customer installs the game and is ready to start his 1st acc. and buy from Item Mall, sadly he/she finds out that he can't even Login to the fcking game, he reads that he is on a "waiting list" to login, checks in 10 mins, still not login, 1hr, not loging, 3hrs not loging, frustrated, unistalls the "fcking" game cuz he can't login, so he wants his $100 dollars back, are you all telling me that I can't dispute my stole $100 dollars....lol

I know the above scenario is unlikely, but any silk buyer can complain about a "service"
this could be a player with previous silk history, maybe he charge $50 to buy the 28 day gold ticket (not premium), he becomes dissatisfy cuz is nearly impossible to use the "service" under the current conditions (severs full 24/7) so he wants his $ back. maybe paypal will verify if it is possible to use the "service" he pay for lol.

I was refering to something else. The fact that the dispute process between you and your financial insitution is completely different. And the outcome is biased (because you are the client). Considerations in that process are completely different then those of the PayPal dispute.

The scenario you gave, however, is spot on! It's a legitimate case.

you guys are all talking about the peple who actually buy with their CC and try to chargeback
what about the CCFers?
what about people buying 3k silks with ccf without caring to get the money back and just getting the in game item mall stuff for free for their main characters?