why Fire and not Lightning ?

[doomas]

So many things I disagree with, don't even know where to begin...
First of all regarding imbue. Choosing fire over light just for the imbue is plain stupid. It is NOT that strong. Actually the difference is very little (try using lower lvl imbue book and see for yourself). Also light has parry reduce so you can hit max dmg more often, so I'd say light is even better (for ints, not for str - their dmg is lower so the difference would more noticable)
2nd - 9% buff and passive: lmao, do you really think ~18% PHYSICAL dmg increase would be better than extra 8% of MAGICAL dmg for a pure INT char? Pure bullshit...
3rd - the nukes. Yes 330% (at higher lvls) is a noticeable difference, but it's not the most important thing + light nukes are strong too
4th - lol, who was stupid enough to think that those % are cast times?
5th - parry. This stat isn't measured in thousands, don't expect the difference to be 100, 200 or 300 and parry ratio is important, you can't argue with that
6th - fire shield. Fire shield at 30lvl is enough, it's a low lvl skill, but it does its job
7th - NO GRASSWALK?! I drain half my mp pots "sliding" towards something ^^
8th - You mentioned that some light nuker did less dmg than you... How can you compare that? Yeah, that 330% fire nuke might be that strong, but you can't compare like that. What if that person had better/worse weapon? More/less int pts? Was lower/higher lvl? Etc.
9th - Upcoming caps... What the hell are you gonna do at 100lvl? 100fire100wep100ice? Or 20light80ice? Or 50/50? And it'll get worse...
THE only useful (other buffs are useful too, but not that much) thing is MAG DEF BUFF! +171 (i think) at 90lvl. Now that's worthy of having fire

Tell me if I missed anything, I love to argue ^^

[firefox6]

in the end the best pure int will be wep(s/s or spear) 150 & light 150.

as the cap goes up you will see i am right. for the 90 cap IMO the best is 90 wep / 90 cold / 90 light / 30 fire
as the caps go up you will drop fire at 100. at 110 you will start to drop cold.

we all know the mastery cap(300) will never go up.

and get owned by 1 strongbow +25% crit

what does that have to do with fire or lighting... any pure int will die if they get crit unless they have like snow shield and iron wall(s/s skill) up..

[tedtwilliger]

in the end the best pure int will be wep(s/s or spear) 150 & light 150.

as the cap goes up you will see i am right. for the 90 cap IMO the best is 90 wep / 90 cold / 90 light / 30 fire
as the caps go up you will drop fire at 100. at 110 you will start to drop cold.

we all know the mastery cap(300) will never go up.

and get owned by 1 strongbow +25% crit

140 light, 100 weapon, 60 cold.

PK2 points towards a 140 cap end to the game, that build seems to suffice. 40% snow shield will be enough to stay alive from most attacks while still having enough mp to attack. Also at lvl 60 the ice buff starts to actually do something as well. As a pure intl you dont need a maxed weapon tree, you deal such low damage with them that the difference between skills wont be noticed. This will only become more apparent at later caps. Light for 30%(?) magical increase buff + nukes and max speed.

Im sure it will survive a strongbow crit

[NuclearSilo]

140 light, 100 weapon, 60 cold.

PK2 points towards a 140 cap end to the game, that build seems to suffice. 40% snow shield will be enough to stay alive from most attacks while still having enough mp to attack. Also at lvl 60 the ice buff starts to actually do something as well. As a pure intl you dont need a maxed weapon tree, you deal such low damage with them that the difference between skills wont be noticed. This will only become more apparent at later caps. Light for 30%(?) magical increase buff + nukes and max speed.

Im sure it will survive a strongbow crit

lol u are wrong. Not maxing the weapon tree is a bad way of thinking.

1st: If u are s/s, it's the worst. The probability of KD depends on the skill level and the enemy's level. Keeping bicheon at lvl 100 is like using KD skill with 40% reduce probability. 4% less block. Shield skill +phy def buff in 15s is not enough to survive to the dmg of a lvl 140 crit

2nd: If u are spearman, u have less +HP passive, skill not efficient enough. Note that higher lvl heuskal skills has 40% stun, 40% KB, new skill = new effect. From lvl 120, heuksal has skill called "Counter", i guess u dont want to miss it?

3rd: 40% Mana-shield? Even at this cap with maxed ice, pure int could die from warriors and str archers crit. Buff phy def at mastery 60 is not enough compare to the dmg at lvl 140. +100 phy def vs 50k dmg


SRO is meant to be 140/140 build at late cap and there is no way to be a perfectionist.

[-.-]

um... where are you guys getting that fire imbue is stronger than light imbue?

Taken from previous pages
flame wave bomb lvl 90: 1060~1766
crane's thunderbolt lvl 90: 989~1837

Ok... so unless you actually max both light and fire to 90... light is obviously better imbue :S

yeah yeah, dont just qoute numbers... with 90 light, you have 8% more light than 30 light? (I'm not sure but since you guys said it I'll stick to it lol)

take 18% with 90 light, and 10% with 30 light
90 fire imbue = 1.1 * 1060-1766 = 1166-1943
90 light imbue = 1.18 * 989-1837 = 1167-2168

so with the increase in mag damage, the 90 light imbue is actually more than 90 fire imbue (if light is left at 30)

I didnt do this with nuke (ones i did had wrong stats) and I dont have real 90 stats on the light/fire nukes lol, but it should be about same but since nuke has higher base %, the damage will be about same since the light bonus will even out the base % on fire

[AngelMare]

So many things I disagree with, don't even know where to begin...
First of all regarding imbue. Choosing fire over light just for the imbue is plain stupid. It is NOT that strong. Actually the difference is very little (try using lower lvl imbue book and see for yourself). Also light has parry reduce so you can hit max dmg more often, so I'd say light is even better (for ints, not for str - their dmg is lower so the difference would more noticable)
2nd - 9% buff and passive: lmao, do you really think ~18% PHYSICAL dmg increase would be better than extra 8% of MAGICAL dmg for a pure INT char? Pure bullshit...
3rd - the nukes. Yes 330% (at higher lvls) is a noticeable difference, but it's not the most important thing + light nukes are strong too
4th - lol, who was stupid enough to think that those % are cast times?
5th - parry. This stat isn't measured in thousands, don't expect the difference to be 100, 200 or 300 and parry ratio is important, you can't argue with that
6th - fire shield. Fire shield at 30lvl is enough, it's a low lvl skill, but it does its job
7th - NO GRASSWALK?! I drain half my mp pots "sliding" towards something ^^
8th - You mentioned that some light nuker did less dmg than you... How can you compare that? Yeah, that 330% fire nuke might be that strong, but you can't compare like that. What if that person had better/worse weapon? More/less int pts? Was lower/higher lvl? Etc.
9th - Upcoming caps... What the hell are you gonna do at 100lvl? 100fire100wep100ice? Or 20light80ice? Or 50/50? And it'll get worse...
THE only useful (other buffs are useful too, but not that much) thing is MAG DEF BUFF! +171 (i think) at 90lvl. Now that's worthy of having fire

Tell me if I missed anything, I love to argue ^^

1. yes sir , since u chose to look at first books u cant see big diffrence , but the diffrence increase by increasing of the level , and it become quit big at high levels , and u r immune against the reduce , and other builds with fire 30% will have light immune , even euros with cleric sub and do a holy word , he wont get em , cant depend on that .
2. why would u take a weapon mastery to start with ? it helps , ALOT , i cant say its better than 8% of fire , but it does well + the other pros of having fire .
3. the nuke multipliers are very important , and the fire nukes do as much dmg as light does when u have force piercing force does , fire range is small , so its dmg tends to be constantly high ( 25k for example ) , while lightning got high range , so its once like 21 k , the next 16 k .
4. not me .
5. wat about the fire defence against other ints ? , and the fact that lightning parry buffs gives only small amount of parry , that u an get it if u blue and fix ur set parry % , ofc with it u will have greater , but like i said again and again , lose something to get a better thing .
6. yeah , with 30 fire u would have about 80% immune , quit enough .
7. am doing pretty fine with the low level grass walk , train in eye peak , u dont have to walk much between mobs .
8. yeah , he with spear +7 and me with +5 sword =] i do have 10% magic buff and amazing fire multipliers + embue , can do more damage .
9. dunno bout coming cap , ill think later.

flame wave bomb lvl 90: 1060~1766
crane's thunderbolt lvl 90: 989~1837

am sorry , but flame wave bomb is weakest of the 3 fire nukes used by high lvled people >.> if hell fire does 23 k , it does like 15k , u cant count it ^.~ compare using hell fire or flame wave wide.

[tedtwilliger]

stuff disproving me

I always thought the % of KD stayed the same? I have quite often seen low level characters KD higher level people who are cape fighting ( its happened to me a few times as well -.- ). With that taken into account and the fact that hek gets higher KB and stun probabilities ( again, didnt know about it ) you do raise a good point. Whether or not a 40% reduce in damage from ice shield makes up for it is up to individual perspective and circumstance. But i retract my previous statement, i obviously don't have all the skill specifications for future caps.

[foudre]

this makes me afraid a hyrbrid spear with force is going to suck at higher caps, unless force gets some sort of imbue

[iShadow]

i do not think anyone would be with force after 100 cap. according to 'coffee guy' from JM official forum every build will depend on fire mastery for either support or power. so if someone is str build then fire max, weapon max = 280 mastery and rest 20 on may be light or ice. for pure int its either light/fire = 280, or light/ice = 280 coz the strategy at last cap for pure int will be max damage in the shortest time possible or they will be dead. weapon skill for int doesnt matter coz at 140 you will have too low phy balance to do any significant phy damage, it will only be imbue damage. only a proper hybrid int should take max weapon mastery with may be light and 20 ice for snow shield, or fire instead light.

[-.-]

flame wave bomb lvl 90: 1060~1766
crane's thunderbolt lvl 90: 989~1837

am sorry , but flame wave bomb is weakest of the 3 fire nukes used by high lvled people >.> if hell fire does 23 k , it does like 15k , u cant count it ^.~ compare using hell fire or flame wave wide.

no idea i dont have chinese char but I thought those were imbues :S since they were talking about it lol

anyways the point I was making is that the 8% additional bonus with 90 light than 30 light would make the light imbue stronger than 30 light with 90 fire imbue

just ugh... do calculations for self to see since I apparently don't have real imbue or nuke data lol

[doomas]

Ah, jesus, that extra 100 dmg from imbue (900-1000 fire and 800-900light - just an example) is nothing. Try using lower lvl imbue (2nd book, if you have 3rd or sth like that). HUGE difference, eh?
That 330% nuke is stronger, can't argue with that, but it's not that useful and you won't be using it in pvp that often, light nuke (which is almost as strong) will do perfectly fine. 30lvl fire shield is more than enough, since you have accessories (+80%). And the most important thing - 18% mag buff. If you are pure int, it's much better than that 18% phy from fire
18% mag + 6% phy > 8mag 18phy

[piXie_niXie]

um... where are you guys getting that fire imbue is stronger than light imbue?

Taken from previous pages
flame wave bomb lvl 90: 1060~1766
crane's thunderbolt lvl 90: 989~1837

Ok... so unless you actually max both light and fire to 90... light is obviously better imbue :S

yeah yeah, dont just qoute numbers... with 90 light, you have 8% more light than 30 light? (I'm not sure but since you guys said it I'll stick to it lol)

take 18% with 90 light, and 10% with 30 light
90 fire imbue = 1.1 * 1060-1766 = 1166-1943
90 light imbue = 1.18 * 989-1837 = 1167-2168

so with the increase in mag damage, the 90 light imbue is actually more than 90 fire imbue (if light is left at 30)

I didnt do this with nuke (ones i did had wrong stats) and I dont have real 90 stats on the light/fire nukes lol, but it should be about same but since nuke has higher base %, the damage will be about same since the light bonus will even out the base % on fire

but u cant argue that with fire at 90 and light lower fire stil has stronger nuke


why dont poepel comprimise and do fire/bicheon 90 and light/cold 60, its one hell of a build and not too many people r doing it