Cookiecutters...

[foudre]

i reckon warrior/wizard is a better build than wizard/warrior

Yeah, I agree totally. Being a warrior, you'd get way more out of wizard than what a wizard could get out of a warrior. You get mana drought, mana drain, fear, invisible, and other skills that I couldn't think off the top of my head.

Speaking of which I thought I saw a quick video of a ksro Warrior Wizard fighting cerberus or something. Might keep an eye on that .

But yeah I don't like being the same. At start of euro I went wizard subclass as a sorta support for Warlock. It worked great for pvp with teleport giving me lots of room and the earth fence etc. But I died easily. That's when I went hybrid int on my build. But the sp really grew on me and I wanted to be a better soloer so I eventually went cleric. Lot's of warlock wiz now though with ong powerfarm.

edit* Nope not ksro, jsro
watched it, he didn't get into that many fights that battle was hella one sided, like a small handfull of defenders and nothing the castle was up graded
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v4239604FdsA ... 28&rank=13
Can't see much from that but it's something to keep an eye on perhaps when he/she uploads some videos utilizing both trees.

Thats my build Its going to be so pwnage.[/quote]
That hardly showed anythign from the wizzard side, but teleport on a wizzard i've seen can be very helpfull[/quote]Yeah you can see he has another video uploaded for fortress http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6236117YQh5rq7t Guess I missed that aswell. It shows the bar for all the wizard skills he has. Video is boring though, he's mostly running around or just using the hammer most of the time :\[/quote]

[BloodOwnzzz]

Who needs Teleport when you have Sprint Assault? Who needs Fear when you have Skins? Who needs anything from Wizard for a Warrior when they could just use Warrior/Rogue and be able to get a bunch more out of their secondary? Sometimes it is just a little to rediculous...

[Barotix]

Who needs Teleport when you have Sprint Assault? Who needs Fear when you have Skins? Who needs anything from Wizard for a Warrior when they could just use Warrior/Rogue and be able to get a bunch more out of their secondary? Sometimes it is just a little to rediculous...

Sprint assault = chasing down a fleeing enemy.
Teleport + Drug of wind = leaving a battle field before someone reverse returns.
Invisible = getting out of there and having some people confused.
Fire Trap = testing star levels to see who to chase, and who to leave alone.
Fear = Being able to kill the cleric without worrying about someone els interfering.
Bind+Fear = getting out in one piece without worrying about any people giving chase.
Mana Drought = Making snow shield a giant sign that says "Kill Me First".
Earth fence = last resort when skins are on cool down.
Second Assured KB = extra survivability.
Skins = A part of the warrior tree that aids me.
Wizard detect = Seeing Rogues and Wizards.

Rogue doesn't offer me what I want. I want a specific build geared towards stealing that ISN'T a rogue. If i got rogue subclass i would just use rogue to steal, and my warrior class would only be used in parties. I want a warrior that can steal like a rogue without the drawbacks. what I want cost LESS SP than any other subclass except bard sub. What I want is also more practical for Me. It adds more options, and better overall stealing potential to the warrior. Rogue/Wizard would be better, and extremely similar to rogue/warlock (except cheaper), but I want a Warrior/Wizard, I have My reasons. I know how I like to play, and this build fits My player profile.

I hope I cleared matters up as to why I have chosen this build for Myself.

I remember similar things said about:
Warrior/Warlock ~ good build
Wizard/Warlock ~ good build
Rogue/Bard ~ good build
Warrior/Bard ~ good build
Rogue/Wizard ~ good build
Rogue/Warlock ~ good build
Wizard/Warrior ~ good build
Any Hybrid Chinese build ~ good builds
Any Chinese build with force ~ good builds

LoL, yeah notice a pattern yet?

as a matter of fact any build that strayed from the norm was mocked, that is Until a video/explanation was shown. I guess seeing really is believing for most .

I want a Unique build that does what I need to get done

[Da_Realest]

Who needs Teleport when you have Sprint Assault? Who needs Fear when you have Skins? Who needs anything from Wizard for a Warrior when they could just use Warrior/Rogue and be able to get a bunch more out of their secondary? Sometimes it is just a little to rediculous...

I was thinking the same... Seems more like another poor attempt at making a Euro character into a Chinese char as far as being Wizard/Warrior.

People always say its about fun, not the best build. Dying isn't fun. When you take to the time to farm about 300k sp on your "fun" Pure Int Bow only to be destroyed by a generic unfarmed pure str glaive, thats not fun. If you want to do only one thing well, then sure make an "original" build. But it when it comes to versatility, "cookie-cutter builds" will always be above you.

[foudre]

Who needs Teleport when you have Sprint Assault? Who needs Fear when you have Skins? Who needs anything from Wizard for a Warrior when they could just use Warrior/Rogue and be able to get a bunch more out of their secondary? Sometimes it is just a little to rediculous...

I was thinking the same... Seems more like another poor attempt at making a Euro character into a Chinese char as far as being Wizard/Warrior.

People always say its about fun, not the best build. Dying isn't fun. When you take to the time to farm about 300k sp on your "fun" Pure Int Bow only to be destroyed by a generic unfarmed pure str glaive, thats not fun. If you want to do only one thing well, then sure make an "original" build. But it when it comes to versatility, "cookie-cutter builds" will always be above you.

after thinking about it, teleport can be used to back up too, if you need to buy some room to repot, knock back followed by teleport, equals alot of room and sprint assualt back in, or teleport sprint assualt for a hella of alot of chase down power, teleport can be used for more then offense

[Barotix]

Who needs Teleport when you have Sprint Assault? Who needs Fear when you have Skins? Who needs anything from Wizard for a Warrior when they could just use Warrior/Rogue and be able to get a bunch more out of their secondary? Sometimes it is just a little to rediculous...

I was thinking the same... Seems more like another poor attempt at making a Euro character into a Chinese char as far as being Wizard/Warrior.

People always say its about fun, not the best build. Dying isn't fun. When you take to the time to farm about 300k sp on your "fun" Pure Int Bow only to be destroyed by a generic unfarmed pure str glaive, thats not fun. If you want to do only one thing well, then sure make an "original" build. But it when it comes to versatility, "cookie-cutter builds" will always be above you.

Wizard doesn't get much from warrior, but for some people the low sp cost is worth the small gains.

Now Warrior gets quite a bit from Wizard. The gains gained from wizard tree for a warrior are kinda similar to what you get from going warlock. The difference being you don't get certain things warlock gives (debuffs, stun) while you do also get certain things warlock doesn't give. I'm gonna need a to make a video after I cap >.> (but if i do that there will be a bunch of pwrlvled warrior/wizards, just like there are a bunch of pwrlvled warrior/warlocks or cleric T.T)

LOL, Pure int bow works well. It just relies to heavily on snowshield T.T

EDIT: I don't make "unique" builds for the hell of it, There is reason behind my madness.

"seeing is believing"

[borat2]

well its nice to see something different, if you are prepared to farm for it why not.
here another "strange" build http://youtube.com/watch?v=KtxJ8jUsCV4


but i believe any of those "strange" mixes are kinda selfish more focused on the 1on1 pvp instead of the group activities.

[You_Dead_Yet]

Warrior/Warlock is much much differnt than Warrior/Wizard

The Warlock tree adds some offensive skills that warrior kinda lacks, warrior being one of the char with the best defense.

As for Warrior/Wizard, i just dont see how the skills from Wizard will help. No debuff, no absolute dmg skills. You only get 1 good status (fear) and 2 others which are only helpful against a few builds (mana drain/bind), invisibility which doesnt really help the warrior killing since he cant even do 1 hit kills, and teleport which is similar to the sprint assault skill from warrior.

The warrior doesnt get stronger, nor get a better defense. Only a few skill that can be 'fun' to use in PVP but soon get boring.

It was kinda obvious from the start that Warrior/Warlock was a good choice, but you'll have to work hard to convince people Warrior/Wiz is good too

[Da_Realest]

after thinking about it, teleport can be used to back up too, if you need to buy some room to repot, knock back followed by teleport, equals alot of room and sprint assualt back in, or teleport sprint assualt for a hella of alot of chase down power, teleport can be used for more then offense

I think the purpose of Teleport if for defensive purposes. I also don't think I should be scared if a Wizard Sprint Assaults me in a war.... Unless there is some sort of tanker in front, a Wizard shouldn't be rushing anyone. The purpose of a Wizard is keeping opponents away from you while doing damage and punishing them if they come in close to you. i.e lava trap

Wizard doesn't get much from warrior, but for some people the low sp cost is worth the small gains.

Now Warrior gets quite a bit from Wizard. The gains gained from wizard tree for a warrior are kinda similar to what you get from going warlock. The difference being you don't get certain things warlock gives (debuffs, stun) while you do also get certain things warlock doesn't give. I'm gonna need a to make a video after I cap >.> (but if i do that there will be a bunch of pwrlvled warrior/wizards, just like there are a bunch of pwrlvled warrior/warlocks or cleric T.T)

LOL, Pure int bow works well. It just relies to heavily on snowshield T.T

EDIT: I don't make "unique" builds for the hell of it, There is reason behind my madness.

"seeing is believing"

The small sp cost is great but I could argue that a Wizard/Cleric could do just as well if not better. Not only that, but it would be much more helpful in group situations. If a Wizard/Warrior put Pain Quota on you, who would suffer the most? lol Being unique for the sake of being unique is a waste of time in my opinion.

Whats the reason behind creating a Warrior/Wizard? The status effects?

In group PvP a Pure Int Bow is going to get ran through. Again, it might not be too bad, but I can argue that there are other int builds that could do the things a Pure Int Bow could and are more versatile.

I seen most of the unique builds and my opinion still remains unchanged for the most of them. The only exception so far has been a Rogue/Warlock. This game isn't complex. For the most part, you don't have create a build to know what its capable of.

but i believe any of those "strange" mixes are kinda selfish more focused on the 1on1 pvp instead of the group activities.

Yup.

[Barotix]

well its nice to see something different, if you are prepared to farm for it why not.
here another "strange" build http://youtube.com/watch?v=KtxJ8jUsCV4

First off in a group I won't be using my sub class, my warrior tanks and annoys in group PvP. If I got cleric sub, it would be for healing division, bless spell, and res I wouldn't waste time on other stuff. If I went bard I would get Moving March and Noise. If I went warlock i would get a lot of stuff. The things I get for wiz do bring certain things to party PvP.

"Warrior without a sub by itself owns. I just wanted to inject some fun into my char builds =)"

A quote by Sylhana except with a twist. Thats all, there is more reasoning behind it. I have been thinking about it for awhile and I'm gonna do it

Pure str Warrior/Wizard. Wizard won't "fck up my build" warrior alone pwns, I'm just adding certain things .

LoL, our reasoning behind how the Pure Str Warrior/Wizard is applied in SRO is quite different. I'll leave this thread with this much:

"In the end its all about having fun - and pwning the process"
"Warrior without a sub by itself owns. I just wanted to inject some fun into my char builds =)"

@DaRealist, Syl's build does the same thing phunky's does -_- and most SRO players don't know how to PvP so what you said won't happen often XD (sry >.> its true)

[Da_Realest]

@DaRealist, Syl's build does the same thing phunky's does -_-

It doesn't? If you're under Fear status, why would you just stand there and wait for the opponent to switch to dagger and cast Scorn? Cast Snow Shield, equip a shield, ghostwalk, do something. I'm not sure if Scorn prevents you from using any skill but if it doesn't, that gives you time to cast Ice Wall because you know the opponent has to come to you. If they don't its just a stalemate. Also, I'm not 100% sure about this but I think Fire/Ice Wall can also stop Fear and Scorn. Does Holy Spell prevent Fear? In the future when we get the new alchemy stones, wouldn't we be able to become immune to Fear? Futhermore, there is the option of expensive pills. A simple pill and one of the reasons why you got that sub is rendered useless. Fear isn't like Warlock debuffs. With Warlock debuffs you can recast them in about 2 secs because of the short cooldown. However, Fear has a much longer cooldown. The long cooldown can also mess up the Fear+Scorn combo if Fear happens to fail.

The only positive I see from the Wizard sub for a Rogue is teleport and the ability to wear garments if you want to.

[Barotix]

@DaRealist, Syl's build does the same thing phunky's does -_-

It doesn't? If you're under Fear status, why would you just stand there and wait for the opponent to switch to dagger and cast Scorn? Cast Snow Shield, equip a shield, ghostwalk, do something. I'm not sure if Scorn prevents you from using any skill but if it doesn't, that gives you time to cast Ice Wall because you know the opponent has to come to you. If they don't its just a stalemate. Also, I'm not 100% sure about this but I think Fire/Ice Wall can also stop Fear and Scorn. Does Holy Spell prevent Fear? In the future when we get the new alchemy stones, wouldn't we be able to become immune to Fear? Futhermore, there is the option of expensive pills. A simple pill and one of the reasons why you got that sub is rendered useless. Fear isn't like Warlock debuffs. With Warlock debuffs you can recast them in about 2 secs because of the short cooldown. However, Fear has a much longer cooldown. The long cooldown can also mess up the Fear+Scorn combo if Fear happens to fail.

The only positive I see from the Wizard sub for a Rogue is teleport and the ability to wear garments if you want to.

Holy spell does prevent fear, Fire Wall/Ice Wall will stop stun and sleep and most warlock debuffs (some one verify) I need to test it though. Fire wall/Ice Wall won't stop scorn. Pill has an absurdly long cool down, and only removes one status at a time. Teleport and the ability to wear garms >.> You ain't looking at what I'm looking at >.> Our reasoning behind the builds is different. Finally most players don't play like yourself, blood, fudge, me.

Fire wall ~> counter, use a weak wiz skill, Fire Wall = gone -_-
Ice Wall ~> counter, use a phy skill, ice wall = gone -_-

Holy Spell ~> Warlock useless, only advantage ~> Instant stun.

EDIT: lol, I am such a troll XD
EDIT: Few people use those skills (sadly), few people actually move after having fear casted, and thats not the only thing I'm relying on. (because you're inferring I'm only taking it for fear)
EDIT: I'm assuming to much XD, need to test

[Da_Realest]

Holy spell does prevent fear, Fire Wall/Ice Wall will stop stun and sleep and most warlock debuffs (some one verify) I need to test it though.

It stops all debuffs. Bloody Trap and Sleep included.

Fire wall/Ice Wall won't stop scorn.

But if it can stop Fear, thats good enough.

Pill has an absurdly long cool down, and only removes one status at a time.

It only needs to remove Fear. Pill has a long cooldown but so does Fear.

Teleport and the ability to wear garms >.> You ain't looking at what I'm looking at >.> Our reasoning behind the builds is different.

Seems so.

Finally most players don't play like yourself, blood, fudge, me.

I know. I rather play it safe though because you can't assume the players will remain ignorant forever so its best to plan ahead.

Fire wall ~> counter, use a weak wiz skill, Fire Wall = gone -_-
Ice Wall ~> counter, use a phy skill, ice wall = gone -_-

Yea, but you should know that every second matters... The opponent can still do range attacks. Even worse if they get a crit or 2 and get you to pot. Did I mention you're not immune to ice? lol

Holy Spell ~> Warlock useless, only advantage ~> Instant stun.

Your 2 stun skills work(separate cooldowns), 2 hp absorb skills work(also separate cooldowns), bleed works, dull works, panic works, and disease works. Useless right?

EDIT: lol, I am such a troll XD

All in good fun.

EDIT: Few people use those skills (sadly), few people actually move after having fear casted, and thats not the only thing I'm relying on. (because you're inferring I'm only taking it for fear)
EDIT: I'm assuming to much XD, need to test

I see...

[Barotix]

It stops all debuffs. Bloody Trap and Sleep included.

aight.

It only needs to remove Fear. Pill has a long cooldown but so does Fear.

Fear is a last resort, I don't plan on making my build dependent on fear: lol, my build is more strategy oriented.

I know. I rather play it safe though because you can't assume the players will remain ignorant forever so its best to plan ahead.

agreed

Yea, but you should know that every second matters... The opponent can still do range attacks. Even worse if they get a crit or 2 and get you to pot. Did I mention you're not immune to ice? lol

The Rogue/Warlock isn't ice immune either.

Your 2 stun skills work(separate cooldowns), 2 hp absorb skills work(also separate cooldowns), bleed works, dull works, panic works, and disease works. Useless right?

I got dull (Shield Trash). I got bleed (DA). Disease ain't that important since you still have that accursed Holy Spell. *Shakes fist at Holy Spell*. Hp absorbs give disease, but one or in some cases two ranged crit(s) while the opponent is in an Icewall/Firewall and you're close to pushing up daisies, especially if the opponent knows how to play their build. (I Rarely see vids were both pvpers are good. Its usually the vid maker that is pwnage )

[Da_Realest]

Fear is a last resort, I don't plan on making my build dependent on fear: lol, my build is more strategy oriented.

Oh ok. I never seen a Rogue/Wizard in action before and since you said "Syl's build," I based the integration of Fear into a strategy off of Slyhana's video.

The Rogue/Warlock isn't ice immune either.

Yea, but the build has 2 means of recovering hp besides pots and the fight is basically over once you're infected by the dreaded Bloody Trap + Sleep combo. You can also quickly retaliate with a stun after you pill out of an ice status.

I got dull (Shield Trash). I got bleed (DA). Disease ain't that important since you still have that accursed Holy Spell. *Shakes fist at Holy Spell*. Hp absorbs give disease, but one or in some cases two ranged crit(s) while the opponent is in an Icewall/Firewall and you're close to pushing up daisies, especially if the opponent knows how to play their build. (I Rarely see vids were both pvpers are good. Its usually the vid maker that is pwnage )

The purpose of Disease is just to increase the chances of bleed and dull taking effect. Disease is threat 9, Holy Spell is threat 8.

The only way range attacks will be close to killing you is from bow ranged attacks. Other than that, glaive throws, and soul cuts aren't killing a Rogue/Warlock. If you have Crossbow lvled up, it won't even be a problem. What you say may be true for an int based build, though. But, you could always just cast DoTs on them and run away until they eventually take down the wall. If not, they should be infected with dull and bleed allowing you to nuke them to death without much resistance.

Too bad the average player in PvP isn't good.

[BloodOwnzzz]

Arrr... To many split replies. All I can say is that it might be useful for a Dagger only Rogue, Teleport + Prick + MW, but for anything else there is no real good strategy it could be used for, unless you are using Wizard for nuking. The only other possibility is to use Fear but why not just get a more direct defense that doesn't fail. This pales in comparison to other builds of the sort such as, Warrior/Warlock, Rogue/Cleric, Warrior/Cleric, etc. There are times when builds out of the ordinary, Wizard/Warlock, Cleric/Bard, Warrior/Warlock, Etc., actually work.

But why make a unique character for the sake of being unique if it is worse. There are strategies that make it work, but then there are other builds that outshine them and really you are making the character just for the sake of being unique. Being unique is good and all but it isn't worth having a worse character.

[the_wicked]

Agree, and disagree
I made a blader back before euro cuz there were less of them. I have always hated glaivers cuz of their mass #'s.
Now i have a 1H 2H cleric...and i have to say even tho it is a build some would do its worth the time to do it. If you know how to dual wep PvP it always looks cool

[Skayunor]

And that's where we differ, ofcourse everyone likes winning, but I rather enjoy the game with a new build (if I suck at PvP I'll resort to mobs 10 levels lower to "PvP" those ) on) as long as I have fun, it's all good.

Too bad the average player in PvP isn't good.

Completely true, the only truly good character in PvP I've ever seen is Vapore, and some people from video's I couldn't read the name of ^^.
Ofcourse I have my own view on PvPing qualities, but still I'm embarrassed to see some people have a level 80 character and not using more then 2 skills.

In my opinion, a builds "Strength" is defined by:
Ability to take damage (Surviving the other players damage)
-High HP
-Defense
-High physical/magical defense
-The ability to block
-Absorption physical/magical rate
-Defensive buffs
-Recovering from damage (healing oneself)
Ability to deal damage (Killing the other player)
-High physical/magical damage
-Absolute damage
-Damage buffs
-Critical chance
-Ranged attacks
Ability to disable (Everything what disables the other player to attack you)
-Stun
-Sleep
-Knockdown
-Knockback
-Bind
-Fear
Ability to debuff (Lowering the other players defense and/or damage)
-Lowering physical/magical defense
-Lowering physical/magical attack
-Lowering range of ranged attacks

Things that eventually determine win or lose:
-A builds "Strength" (see above)
-In how far a character is "Fully Farmed" (meaning having all skills available for your class(es) and level)
-Equipment (+3 set or Pimped/Blue Seal of Sun +7 set)
-Weapon (white +0 Spear or a Seal of Sun +9 Spear)
-Reflexes (speed at which you react to different circumstances)
-Knowledge of the game and other builds (to use this to your adventage)
-Potion and Pill size and Vigors (Vigors can be used independly of potions)
-Item Mall items (by example Premium, Attack Scroll, Defense Scroll)
-Having a Pet attacking along

That covers basicly every aspect (might have forgotten some little things though) of PvPing and your chances.
But perhaps we should organize some form of PvPing Contest.
Only problem is server difference and the time it takes to remake a character if we already decided we do that.
(Like Joymax in a lot of ways)

[Barotix]

Arrr... To many split replies. All I can say is that it might be useful for a Dagger only Rogue, Teleport + Prick + MW, but for anything else there is no real good strategy it could be used for, unless you are using Wizard for nuking. The only other possibility is to use Fear but why not just get a more direct defense that doesn't fail. This pales in comparison to other builds of the sort such as, Warrior/Warlock, Rogue/Cleric, Warrior/Cleric, etc. There are times when builds out of the ordinary, Wizard/Warlock, Cleric/Bard, Warrior/Warlock, Etc., actually work.

But why make a unique character for the sake of being unique if it is worse. There are strategies that make it work, but then there are other builds that outshine them and really you are making the character just for the sake of being unique. Being unique is good and all but it isn't worth having a worse character.

lol, being Unique is just a side effect of my madness.

[hootsh]

Thats exactly what i've been looking forward to do for months now, ever since i left my bard in avalon..a non-cookiecutter build but one that is still effective...sorry if i sound a bit gay when i say that..but your build kinda suk..well not really suk but a bit weak if compared with wiz/cleric but thats just my opinion (i'm sure you died a lot but didnt include that in the video)...there is a difference between an original-fun build and a stupid build...your build wasnt stupid at all or anything its good...but what i'm saying is that (and specially for Euro)..no one wanna take any chances risking trying to mix unusual masteries cause if you get to a high level and suddenly discover that you suk it wont feel good lol (besides dont forget about the SP factor and the amount of time wasted on farming)...btw i did actually try that build long ago lol..around the time when Saturn opened..and got to lvl 30...but i basically got it for the HA not the skills.

People want a fun character that can kill stuff...i do admit that glaive is too boring and too kinda old now though...me thinking of making a glaive is like thinking about jumping off a building or something lol.

[Sylhana]

Just got to 80 today, maxed all the skills. Ever seen a Niya general doing an aerial teleport? lol, fun times .

[Berto]

Just got to 80 today, maxed all the skills. Ever seen a Niya general doing an aerial teleport? lol, fun times .

I'd love to see the rogue in pvp/job war action. Grats on 80 too btw.