Thinking about a subclass for my rogue

[jorgie]

Go with warlock, you wont regret it. Fun and effective..mass sleep, cut down their def, pick off 4 hunters in one go.

[XemnasXD]

If you have Bard sub the only thing you'll be able to do is run away....

Having fast speed buffs doesn't mean your only option is to run away. How about chasing enemies?

There have been countless times I've seen Euros die for the simple fact that their target was too far away from them and their speed did not allow them to reach the enemy in time. The most common speed buff Euros use is the crappy 50% moving scrolls or speed potion from the town NPC. When you're chasing full farmed Chinese level 80s with 73% speed and phantoming, you're gonna wish you had a bard in your party or a 100% speed potion.

Speed potions are very inconvenient because of their cost, and having to spend 'x' amount of gold every time you want to go jobbing is very unnecessary.

The Cleric subclass has become so common that it's almost guaranteed that a Euro with Cleric skills will be in your jobbing party. A bard, however, is not very common and having one in a job party just makes things better.

Anyway- to the point; The Bard sub-class isn't just for running away. It offers a great variety of advantages as do other skill tress, just in a different manner. You won't have Bless Spell, but you have Tambours. No Heaven Flash, but you have Patter Clamour. No Holy Spell, but then theres Cure Melody. It offers virtually the same advantages in a different way. What people can't visualize, however, is using these advantages successfully in combat so the idea of having a bard sub-class is immediately defenestrated.

can you confirm that that the effects of those skills even stay after weapon switch. Afaik they don't which makes them useless. Also i don't see a bard equivalent of Recovery Division.

The only countless advantage you seem to be able to get out of bard subclass is movement speed. And no...i don't think a Rogue Using Xbow has ever died because his enemy was too far away o0. The way you make it sound its like you'll die if you don't hunt down the person and kill them. Xbow has the longest range in the game even greater than nukes so there is no reason for lack of distance to ever be something that gets you killed if you play intelligently....


We're no0t basing our sub-classes on the thought that there might be a Cleric around somewhere were taking on a subclass so we don't have to worry about help from outside forces....

[5hadow]

I went with rogue/bard.

Reasons:

I enjoy hit and run.

I'm a theif. During trade/job wars, I take on the responsibility to take out the garment/protector/robes/light armour wearers as they often do the highest damage per hit/skill, or they have the power to res/buff.

In a party of theives about to knock out a party trade, I wait until the battle has already begun before I make my move so I use the element of surprise. Often, my main target is the resser/buffer or even the trader himself so that they cannot progress further towards the next town once the loot has been scattered across the floor.

During job war, 1v1- its prick+combo is often enough to kill most characters. I tend not to target shields as their blocks are troublesome. I generally do not enjoy job wars as the exp is quite small, relative to that of doing a trade loot, and that job war can easily be simulated the same way as pvp cape (except without the exp gaining/losing).

In my opinion, rogues- by essence, like an assassin, are to kill fast and to get away from the scene of the crime ASAP. Rogues that stay around will simply get caught and gang banged, so my idea is to "live and fight another day".

The over-riding question is; what is the best way to survive?

Well, first question: even with a fully farmed 80 chi with speed, how many people can run at 90% speed and catch you?

second question: if you stay around for 10 seconds or more, how many more opponents will be hitting you? start off with the initial person, thats ok, u can tank him with your cleric buffs..but can u tank 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 with their dulls, freezes, burns, stuns, shocks, kd, kb. Even with speed scrolls, you will stay longer than u shud and get ganged.

Personally, i'd run as soon as i make my move on my opponent.

Some may call it cowardice, however others would call it tactics/cunning/wit, all of which are aspects of a rogue in my opinion.

I dont think that running away is a sign of losing...retreating, is not losing a battle. Losing is when there is no escape, and death is the only option.

It is about giving yourself time to regroup or rething your tactics, or to simply waste time so that your enemies' buff wear out, and your next assault will have greater impact.

It is about gaining the element of surprise again which in any situation will give the rogue the upperhand in a battle.

Apologies for my long post, well..not really =p....but this is how i play my rogue and i find it very effective.

[HertogJan]

5hadow, I concur.

I was saying that a year ago but then about bow chars. Hit and run, now euros have the better version of the hit and run chars. And how much I dislike them for it while fighting them, I can understand it from youre point of view.

Its just awesome when some stealth guys forget that a bower that is a bit farmed has the 5 arrow combo, wich releases almost instantly and has knockback. If that doenst kill him, the knockback will have him standing still and if he/she doenst react quick imma get another arrow in. I love that =|

[5hadow]

I'm glad you agree.

I too find this style of killing annoying when fighting other rogues or wizards as they too have an element of surprise.

Just briefly since it's off topic; to kill another stealthed or invisible character, especially in job war at gates, the use of tabbing an opponent is invaluable as it takes away the surprise.

However if both are tabbed, stealthed and 80 farmed rogue or wizard, i would call it stalemate, and the first to die would be the first one to review themselves.

[HertogJan]

Another OFT comment;

Was pvping against 2 level 70 wizards and I kept killing them. They where really getting pissed, until 1 of them askes how I can see them all the time when they went into stealth. Silly people had there pets out, so it was easy to spot there pets following them and then walk nearby and use a pill. They learned called in there pets and killed me ^^.

[5hadow]

when i first started, i thought that going stealth would make my pets go stealth too...i was so wrong.

[XemnasXD]

what kind of BS is that...wizards can see rogues and wizards but rogues can only see rogues...

[5hadow]

what kind of BS is that...wizards can see rogues and wizards but rogues can only see rogues...

really? since when can wizards see rogues and with what skills?

Rogues can see other rogues and wizard traps.

[XemnasXD]

what kind of BS is that...wizards can see rogues and wizards but rogues can only see rogues...

really? since when can wizards see rogues and with what skills?

Rogues can see other rogues and wizard traps.

i've had it cast on me b4...so have other people...ask a friend to do it and you'll the icon show up in the corner with the other debuffs.

[5hadow]

what kind of BS is that...wizards can see rogues and wizards but rogues can only see rogues...

really? since when can wizards see rogues and with what skills?

Rogues can see other rogues and wizard traps.

i've had it cast on me b4...so have other people...ask a friend to do it and you'll the icon show up in the corner with the other debuffs.

hmm as far as i know, only a warrior can cast destealth on us that lasts for a period of time, or if some1 uses a destealth potion they can see you..other than that, I dont see how a wiz has a skill to see a rogue in stealth.

The wiz skill is "detect" which only sees invisible.

Warriors have "descry" that sees stealth for a period of time, and everyone else around u can see u too.

I think the icon you are referring to is descry.

[XemnasXD]

what kind of BS is that...wizards can see rogues and wizards but rogues can only see rogues...

really? since when can wizards see rogues and with what skills?

Rogues can see other rogues and wizard traps.

i've had it cast on me b4...so have other people...ask a friend to do it and you'll the icon show up in the corner with the other debuffs.

hmm as far as i know, only a warrior can cast destealth on us that lasts for a period of time, or if some1 uses a destealth potion they can see you..other than that, I dont see how a wiz has a skill to see a rogue in stealth.

The wiz skill is "detect" which only sees invisible.

Warriors have "descry" that sees stealth for a period of time, and everyone else around u can see u too.

I think the icon you are referring to is descry.

i like it when people think im crazy. I've been hit by the wizards destealth b4...i should've taken an SS but i was fighting a wizard and he kept casting detect when he thought i was in range but by the time he got out of the gate i moved into it and he couldn't do anything...

i know the difference between descry and detect...like i said have a friend test it out...

[strangelove]

what kind of BS is that...wizards can see rogues and wizards but rogues can only see rogues...

really? since when can wizards see rogues and with what skills?

Rogues can see other rogues and wizard traps.

Wizards are able to use Stealth potions when they are invisible, but rogues cannot use them when in stealth.

@XemnasXD

5hadow pretty much summed it for me. XD

About the buffs, no, they don't stay on you after a weapon switch. Using Tambours is not like using Bless Spell. Think of tambours as a big shield that absorbs damage. If a nuker with a sun weapon were to nuke me, I'll be almost guaranteed to be dead. When they are charging their nuke, you can activate Mana Tambour and absorb some of the damage, then switch back to a rogue weapon and attack. It's a different class and it requires different techniques than just buffing up and switching to rogue.

When I was talkign about speed, I wasn't only referrign to rogues but all the Euro builds in general. You're right- xbow does have the largest range in the game so for us enemies that are far away isn't an issue. But can you say the same about warriors? warlocks? Even Clerics. If they are not able to reach a ranged enemy soon enough, chances or surviving are very slim.

[5hadow]

what kind of BS is that...wizards can see rogues and wizards but rogues can only see rogues...

really? since when can wizards see rogues and with what skills?

Rogues can see other rogues and wizard traps.

i've had it cast on me b4...so have other people...ask a friend to do it and you'll the icon show up in the corner with the other debuffs.

hmm as far as i know, only a warrior can cast destealth on us that lasts for a period of time, or if some1 uses a destealth potion they can see you..other than that, I dont see how a wiz has a skill to see a rogue in stealth.

The wiz skill is "detect" which only sees invisible.

Warriors have "descry" that sees stealth for a period of time, and everyone else around u can see u too.

I think the icon you are referring to is descry.

i like it when people think im crazy. I've been hit by the wizards destealth b4...i should've taken an SS but i was fighting a wizard and he kept casting detect when he thought i was in range but by the time he got out of the gate i moved into it and he couldn't do anything...

i know the difference between descry and detect...like i said have a friend test it out...

oh ok..well im not doubting your facts that a wiz was able to see u in stealth. im quite familar with wizards as well, and ive never come across a skill that can destealth a rogue apart from a potion used that works similar to a rogues destealth. The only difference is, the potion can be bought in town.

If possible, could u tell me the name of the skill that the wiz used so that..well, i learn something new!

[klemmyez]

what kind of BS is that...wizards can see rogues and wizards but rogues can only see rogues...

really? since when can wizards see rogues and with what skills?

Rogues can see other rogues and wizard traps.

hum yes, and you forget that, rogue can see rogue, but don't show them to other.

And wizzard, detect invisible, but he show the man invisible for all people around him xD.

[Pred]

No need to argue anymore. I've already stated that Rogue/Bard is the only way to go. He can do whatever he wants. It's his character. He can mess it up.

Warlock sub class for Rogue is even worse. You leave yourself vunerable to cast curses or whatever you wanna do. Then you switch to Dagger/Xbow and have to cast DD or XX.

NEVER hesitate to kill someone. If you do, your dead. I am the most hated character on all of the servers I play (Level 80 Rogue) because I can kill everyone in the game. My friend is a level 80 wizard (also hated).

The best thing about European characters is you can be very strong with crappy gear. Chinese character relies too much on gear and pots.

Chinese pot heads FTL~!!!

[Crumpets]

No need to argue anymore. I've already stated that Rogue/Bard is the only way to go. He can do whatever he wants. It's his character. He can mess it up.

Warlock sub class for Rogue is even worse. You leave yourself vunerable to cast curses or whatever you wanna do. Then you switch to Dagger/Xbow and have to cast DD or XX.

NEVER hesitate to kill someone. If you do, your dead. I am the most hated character on all of the servers I play (Level 80 Rogue) because I can kill everyone in the game. My friend is a level 80 wizard (also hated).

The best thing about European characters is you can be very strong with crappy gear. Chinese character relies too much on gear and pots.

Chinese pot heads FTL~!!!

EGO + OVER 9 THOUSAND

[poehalcho]

go for it. you will be able to master 5 weapons at the same time ^^

[Pred]

EGO + OVER 9 THOUSAND

No Ego, just Facts

[XemnasXD]

EGO + OVER 9 THOUSAND

No Ego, just Facts

What facts...the only thing you've got right is that with a bard sub-class you can run away very quickly...good luck with that

[Pred]

Again, it's not about running away. It's about chasing someone down in stealth. But you haven't figured that part out yet.

Do yourself a favor, go make one. If you don't have one. Then there's no reason to talk.

[___ONLY___]

if want a rogue but i dont want to spend time on SRO, the login problems are killing me

anyway, if i were you id go with bard for the speed and noise you can kill and run. You'll be the elite-thief with decent gear. That cleric defense skill is sweet but not necessary if you can kill your enemy in 2/3 hits
And dont fear getting gangbanged, just kill the first one and run away then come back and do the same

[Fat_Smurf]

Again, it's not about running away. It's about chasing someone down in stealth. But you haven't figured that part out yet.

Do yourself a favor, go make one. If you don't have one. Then there's no reason to talk.

lul typhoon > bard

and the rogue/warrior sound like a nice build I already though about it and it look like the most interesting

[Pred]

you have the gold to pop a drug ever 30mins?

I highly doubt that.

[Fat_Smurf]

you have the gold to pop a drug ever 30mins?

I highly doubt that.

lol its not expensive, and if your cheap buy movespeed scroll, and only use typhoon when pvping

[XemnasXD]

if want a rogue but i dont want to spend time on SRO, the login problems are killing me

anyway, if i were you id go with bard for the speed and noise you can kill and run. You'll be the elite-thief with decent gear. That cleric defense skill is sweet but not necessary if you can kill your enemy in 2/3 hits
And dont fear getting gangbanged, just kill the first one and run away then come back and do the same

if it was that easy then why aren't All trades getting robbed by Rogue/Bard thieves....i love it when people take human thought completely out of the equation....

[xKingpinx]

http://www.youtube.com/yarkanvseuropeans <<<< Vortexx rogue/warrior..... if that link isnt correct go to youtube and type in yarkan vs 3 euros and it will bring it up

[JadenX2]

Fck the norm. make your subclass wizard so you can use super weak nukes.nothing beats a rogue shooting fireballs

[bigbamboo]

Lovely.Gone for week and such a nice discussion on Rogue subclasses.

Haven carefully read all arguments I consider PVP-wize XEmnasX to be right on spot,his arguments demolish all i've seen.Now don't get me wrong.Solo Pve Rogue/Bard seems lovely saving a lot of gold,but for PVP,jobs,wars Cleric sub is far more useful thus superior considering a speedpotion is Easily obtainable for the occasional job or war or pvp.That's all there is to it really.

No need to get the pantys in a bunch.The answer is as clear as a bell.

[Juey]

Just something to consider if you go for bard like I did. At the next cap, you will have a skill that I think can be called Group Noise. I saw the skill on that konpaku page. Didn't say what mastery level though.
Group Noise I guess would even make party grinding at aggressive areas more relaxing.