Question for all those "legits" out there *Poll added*

[NuclearSilo]

Like I said, it's based on context. You shouldn't just take a snippet of someone's conversation and assume it sums up everything about them. He says he supports his friends, no matter what they do. Like I've said, that could mean a lot of things. I still consider myself supporting my friends even though they bot. That generally involves me buffing them or loaning them gold or elixirs. If I was the one paying for their bots, than I wouldn't be their friend, I'd be their sugardaddy. If they were exposed on SRF and wanted me to bitch about it (like they'd hang out here in the first place >_>), I wouldn't be their friend if I agreed, i'd be their bitch

Oh, you are confusing me, how do you define a "friend"? Define "support" too.

[Goseki]

Friend = someone you get along with and can hang out.
Support = Helping them with simple basic stuff, actions that last for a short time.

Speaking in game only so we don't start back with the whole smoking crack stuff,

Support = helping in pvp, grinding together, loaning gold, items, elixirs. Helping plan builds and organizing guilds or making a ventrilo or gamespeak, participating in little wars on sro.

Over-the-line of support = paying their bot bills, going to forums just to flame ppl u don't know because they bot and got flamed o_O.

Friends are whomever I can hang out with and not get pissed at easily. Bot or no bots.

Supporting them goes about as far as related game-wise. Maybe even helping them setting up something we can all use like vent. Support for me does not involve paying their bills because they want something extra like a bot. People buy hacks for FPS and MMO, if they want to use that, they can pay for it themselves. If someone flames them on SRO, i'll help out. If someone flames them on a freaking forum or in real life and they expect me to come over and help, they must be high or a lot dumber than I ever knew. It's one thing to be yelled at by a bunch of turks and needing help to shut them up. It's another thing to go to an anti-bot forum, get caught, and expect your friends to flame for you. That's more like having little bitches you can control than having friends imo.

[PR0METHEUS]

The thing for me is just how rampant it is. Like your baseball example. I wouldn't want to play against a team of roided up ppl, but if the MLB decided that they would no longer screen players for steroids no matter how obvious it may be. You're only left with 2 options. Play in a minor league with new friends, play with roided up friends and watch you get ur ass wooped. Or quit baseball.

Or another option...

Train harder and develop your baseball skills more than the roided up players are, then beat them at their own game. Steroids won't give baseball players more skills, just make them stronger. Weak (relatively speaking muscular wise) players can still beat out the muscle-on-top-of-muscle players with pure skill.

Why does it have to be either play with them or go away?

[blackfalcon]

i agree with u baro on the fact that cheating in some games does ruin them. i was just trying to say that if it comes down to chosing between a friend and a game, im going to keep my friends

[Trace]

Support = helping in pvp, grinding together, loaning gold, items, elixirs.

Supporting them goes about as far as related game-wise.

Friends support each other right? You help them, they help you because that's what friends do right?

If you benefit (within the game) directly or indirectly from your friend's actions, then you support their actions.

[Barotix]

Support = helping in pvp, grinding together, loaning gold, items, elixirs.

Supporting them goes about as far as related game-wise.

Friends support each other right? You help them, they help you because that's what friends do right?

If you benefit (within the game) directly or indirectly from your friend's actions, then you support their actions.

Gold bots.

[Goseki]

Support = helping in pvp, grinding together, loaning gold, items, elixirs.

Supporting them goes about as far as related game-wise.

Friends support each other right? You help them, they help you because that's what friends do right?

If you benefit (within the game) directly or indirectly from your friend's actions, then you support their actions.

The only way I would benefit from them directly would be if I sat there and let them powerlvl me. If I simply grind with them, it would be the same as grinding with random ppl, only this is funner as you can have a conversation with your friends as you grind. Heck, some of them turn their bots off so we can mess around and see how many mobs we can lure at once.

I guess you could count them helping you out in pvp would be benefiting from botting, but I think that's quite a stretch.

[NuclearSilo]

oh, i hope you still have dignity to reject whenever your friend offer you billions of gold collect from their gold bots.

[Trace]

I guess you could count them helping you out in pvp would be benefiting from botting, but I think that's quite a stretch.

I would disagree but hear me out. There are things that happen on your server that you couldn't avoid. Items sold in stalls for example, no way to tell how they were obtained, but you need them to help advance your game. It's different when you know of your friend who bots, offers you help in pvp (or any pvp situation), then you are benefiting by getting an edge from the help of your friend who would otherwise be of lower level had he or she not botted. That is benefiting from botting. You signal to them that their actions are acceptable, as it benefits your circle of friends, further reinforcing their behavior. They no longer only decide for themselves to cheat, as the benefits of them cheating extend beyond themselves to their circle of friends which includes you. They would believe that you support their actions.

[Goseki]

I guess you could count them helping you out in pvp would be benefiting from botting, but I think that's quite a stretch.

I would disagree but hear me out. There are things that happen on your server that you couldn't avoid. Items sold in stalls for example, no way to tell how they were obtained, but you need them to help advance your game. It's different when you know of your friend who bots, offers you help in pvp (or any pvp situation), then you are benefiting by getting an edge from the help of your friend who would otherwise be of lower level had he or she not botted. That is benefiting from botting. You signal to them that their actions are acceptable, as it benefits your circle of friends, further reinforcing their behavior. They no longer decide for themselves to cheat, as the benefits of them cheating extend beyond themselves to their circle of friends which includes you. They would believe that you support their actions.

So according to you, it would be best that once I found out my friends started botting, I alienate them keeping only to legits so that once I get my ass handed to me, I have other legits to call upon who are of equal or loewr lvls to help me kill a full capped botter... The highest legit I know on ALPS is lvl 80-85 I think. I only know of 2 legits. One is lvl 85, one is lvl 74 (me). So basically to job or anything, I have to pray to god no one over lvl 90 shows up. If they do, I'm pretty much done. If a turk shows up, i'm done since they always come in pairs or 6-packs. The thing with older servers is that it's near impossible to get a full team of legits together.

I guess if I had started doing that, there might be a handful of us that can play together, but that could go either way. Either people see us as a legit group and hang out with us and stop using their bots, or the rest of the server can see us as self-righteous asses and gang up on us until we leave. I'm not one to start a fight, so I kinda purposefully avoided that route.

So if you consider calling on your friends to help, and if they bot, you will be benefiting from their powers since they got to a higher lvl via the bot, and if you benefit from a bot than you are a bot supporter, than I guess in your view I am a bot supporter. So interesting question than. Mods, what do you think? Should this be added to the list of ban-able offenses? If so, I guess I have no choice but to take a ban and go back to being a guest here.

[Trace]

So according to you, it would be best that once I found out my friends started botting, I alienate them keeping only to legits so that once I get my ass handed to me, I have other legits to call upon who are of equal or loewr lvls to help me kill a full capped botter... The highest legit I know on ALPS is lvl 80-85 I think. I only know of 2 legits. One is lvl 85, one is lvl 74 (me). So basically to job or anything, I have to pray to god no one over lvl 90 shows up. If they do, I'm pretty much done. If a turk shows up, i'm done since they always come in pairs or 6-packs. The thing with older servers is that it's near impossible to get a full team of legits together.

I guess if I had started doing that, there might be a handful of us that can play together, but that could go either way. Either people see us as a legit group and hang out with us and stop using their bots, or the rest of the server can see us as self-righteous asses and gang up on us until we leave. I'm not one to start a fight, so I kinda purposefully avoided that route.

So if you consider calling on your friends to help, and if they bot, you will be benefiting from their powers since they got to a higher lvl via the bot, and if you benefit from a bot than you are a bot supporter, than I guess in your view I am a bot supporter. So interesting question than. Mods, what do you think? Should this be added to the list of ban-able offenses? If so, I guess I have no choice but to take a ban and go back to being a guest here.

You're not the only legit player on silkroad. It's precisely why a lot of players quit to play another game, or start on a server where there are enough players who don't cheat. You choose to remain in the game and on your server, and that's fine. But saying that you're not supporting bots but clearly benefiting from them gives all the more reason for you not to see botting as wrong.

So I ask you do you think botting has its merits? In your case, saying no at this point would only make you a hypocrite. So, would you rather be a hypocrite or would you rather just stay as a spectator on this forum?

[Goseki]

If you insist, I never said botting had no merit. Every cheating method gives you an unfair edge over everyone else. If anyone denied that fact, they'd be a moron. Botting let's you lvl faster, play with less effort, etc. It's pretty much the best tool for making it far in this game with the least effort. Like I said, it's up to the mods here to determine how far it goes before someone turns into a bot supporter.

It's pretty obvious even to the dullest of us here that botting gives an unfair edge, which is why ppl hate it. It both benefits the cheater while taking from the overall experience of the legits. It doesn't deserve praise in the sense that it is taking away from the community, but I do give it merit for being one hella good program to have caused so much trouble and money to JM. I don't think people should use it since it makes gameplay unfair for everyone, but most ppl do, and those ppl are the ones I call for help when I get raped in pvp. So if the mods consider admitting this fact the same as bot support, than i'll gladly leave.

[Trace]

I don't think people should use it since it makes gameplay unfair for everyone, but most ppl do, and those ppl are the ones I call for help when I get raped in pvp. So if the mods consider admitting this fact the same as bot support, than i'll gladly leave.

You would leave it to someone else to interpret your reasoning? You would have us believe you when you say you don't believe it as being bot support for benefiting through someone else (your friend) who bots up to a higher level, so you don't have to grind just as hard to keep up (what other legits have to do) to stay competitive in pvp. Your lackluster attitude doesn't match your drive for pvp competitiveness. You hide behind your friends that cheat so you don't have to, and claim your legit status.

[Goseki]

Actually I have yet to find a person that's my lvl that stands a chance against me without zerking. Even with sun. There were only 2 ppl that could kill me when I actually pvped against them. One was lempi on his old blader and the other was a ff full sun garm glaiver. So no, I don't really rely on my botting friends for help in my pvp. However, when some crazy botter comes along and starts raping everyone and me, than yes, I will call for help. I'm not so shallow that I won't call on friends for help simply because they bot. There's actually 3 legits of whom I know of. Lempi, me, and my lvl 85 friend.

You would have us believe you when you say you don't believe it as being bot support for benefiting through someone else (your friend) who bots up to a higher level, so you don't have to grind just as hard to keep up (what other legits have to do) to stay competitive in pvp.

What other legits? No one on Alps as far as I know is a legit and has grinded to cap to keep up with the bot pvp. And it don't just call on my bot friends only. I call on whoever is online at the time. I've had my lvl 85 friend come help me. In case you missed it earlier, I've been lvl 74 for about a year, so shows just how often I play. I just recently came back to check out 10d after a 6 month break.

Whatever though, you seem certain that asking for your friends for help in pvp will be the same as bot support if the friends use a bot. Like I said, I don't see it as such, you do. Whether I'll get banned from here is up to the admins. I'm not leaving someone else to interpret my reasoning. I already stated what I think. Of course it will be up to whoever runs this website to determine whether it goes against the rules. That's like if you came to my forum, and I just happen to hate the word Trace, I could make it so whoever had a screenname like that be auto-banned.

BTW, if there ARE any higher lvl folks from ALPS, pls tell me, cuz i have yet to see anyone.

[Barotix]

Be a bot supporter Change your avatar to the pointy-finger bot symbol. Put "0x33" (or something equivalent) somewhere in your sig. Talk openly about, admit to, or suggest botting in a thread. Ask about how to buy, offer to sell, or post links to bot clients, etc

I don't see a "pvp with people that bot", "request help from botters for pvp purposes", or "have botters aid you while jobbing." No reason to ban Goseki.

[Goseki]

Be a bot supporter Change your avatar to the pointy-finger bot symbol. Put "0x33" (or something equivalent) somewhere in your sig. Talk openly about, admit to, or suggest botting in a thread. Ask about how to buy, offer to sell, or post links to bot clients, etc

I don't see a "pvp with people that bot", "request help from botters for pvp purposes", or "have botters aid you while jobbing." No reason to ban Goseki.

O Snap

[.curve]

Sorry sirs, had to go to work.

My meaning of support is exactly what the dictionary says. I provide them aide. If they need help in a guild war, I'm there. They're low on money, I'm there. Getting ganked in pvp, I'm there.

Silo you have this tunnel vision way of looking at things, and then you expect everyone to have that same tunnel vision view. You then call anyone who disagrees with you ignorant. When in fact, having that tunnel vision makes you the ignorant one.

This is a perfect example of that tunnel vision I was talking about:

a botter = someone who use bot
your friend who bot = your friend is a botter
support friend = support botter

You make it seem like by not caring what they do, I'm supporting them. No. Two completely different stances on the subject. You make it seem like only their actions in game define the person they are. No, it's just a game.

I like my friends for WHO THEY ARE AS PEOPLE. Outside of Silkroad. Outside of any game. There's this thing called real life. I live in it, that is how I judge people.

oh, i hope you still have dignity to reject whenever your friend offer you billions of gold collect from their gold bots.

Funny that you ask that. I was always the one low on gold due to my lack of a gold bot army like my friends. Multiple times they offered to lend me 500mil+, I refused. Why? Not because it was gold from a gold obtained through an illegit way, but because of pride. I was determined to have more gold and a better set than them, legitly. I made the first +7 85 2H out of them.

It doesn't matter what game it is. I won't play that game with you unless you stop cheating. It takes two to tango, .curve. Friendship is not a one way street. Compromise is an important part of friendship.

And there it is, sir. Compromise falls on our personalities and who we are as people. Me? I'm a very passive person. I make small sacrifices so other people can be happy. That is just how I am.

That is why our views here differ so much. Our personalities are different.

I still love you though.

[Trace]

Whatever though, you seem certain that asking for your friends for help in pvp will be the same as bot support if the friends use a bot.

Not just pvp, but I've stated it earlier

You're not the only legit player on silkroad. It's precisely why a lot of players quit to play another game, or start on a server where there are enough players who don't cheat. You choose to remain in the game and on your server, and that's fine. But saying that you're not supporting bots but clearly benefiting from them gives all the more reason for you not to see botting as wrong.

You just didn't read it, and now you are just arguing in circles again. Pvp was just an example. It would be very difficult to play an mmorpg without being a part of a community within the server, and you choosing to stay there with your friends cheating, it becomes inevitable that you would need help. Having to turn to them knowing that they cheat, and saying that you don't approve of their cheating, isn't really something that I would enjoy if I were you.

My only reason for being legit is cuz I just so happen to enjoy grinding with friends... Memories > pwning everyone on my server.

Well in any case, I hope the memories of you enjoying grinding with your friends were great ones.

[Goseki]

Like I said, we're obviously differing on some views. I don't really feel bad for asking my friends for help. I don't approve of them cheating, but they're still my friends, and I know they'll still help me if they see me getting gang-banged by 3 lvl 90+, even if I don't ask for it.

Yes, I do have fond memories. I have a folder full of screenshots throughout 4 years, but I only have records of a few. I lost most of my earlier screenshot when I installed the EURO update since I had no idea that screenshots would be auto-deleted. Here's one of my fav's just to lighten the mood here

[BuDo]

Support = helping in pvp, grinding together, loaning gold, items, elixirs.

Supporting them goes about as far as related game-wise.

Friends support each other right? You help them, they help you because that's what friends do right?

If you benefit (within the game) directly or indirectly from your friend's actions, then you support their actions.

I agree with this....Also... Benefiting directly or indirectly form the actions of devious individuals (gold botters and player bots) and not caring is ALSO a form of support. It shows you support those people's devious actions. Even when we complain about botting but still play and buy stuff in this game...Stuff we know for sure were found by gold bots and player bots alike, its a demonstration of our support. I myself..like Goseki and the rest of us (whether we have friends that bot or not) are bot supporters... But its not our fault...in a game that has over 95% botting due to poor management, it can't be help...Joymax makes bot supporters of us all.

[4days]

Player bots are fine. I just don't like gold bots.

[BuDo]

Player bots are fine. I just don't like gold bots.

Your very first post is gonna cost you a ban from this forum...thats kinda funny

[Fury]

Player bots are fine. I just don't like gold bots.

Your very first post is gonna cost you a ban from this forum...thats kinda funny

No it wont, it will just get him flamed lol. I think he meant that, he can put up with player bots but not goldbots.

[selenne]

Player bots are fine. I just don't like gold bots.

i dun give a shit about bot players. if they want and the owner of the game allows em, who am i to be a legit nazi?
also, i dun hav nothing against goldbots, except for fillin the server and spamming. if ppl buy gold, the goldbots are still there and, again, the owner does nothing about it, wwhy would i get mad about it?
i mean, if u still play this game, u know what you are dealing with. keeping that in mind i just dont care, dont whine and dont complain anymore.

[ping_lo]

i dun give a shit about bot players. if they want and the owner of the game allows em, who am i to be a legit nazi?

A customer. Having worked service industry here in the US being a customer gives you permission to be a right asshole especially if you are right like in the case of us legit nazzis. But then Why the hell is someone like you posting on a legit nazi forum where you have to watch what you say if you like "their" kind so much?

also, i dun hav nothing against goldbots, except for fillin the server and spamming. if ppl buy gold, the goldbots are still there and, again, the owner does nothing about it, wwhy would i get mad about it?

Are you really that dense you need it explained? I mean I don't want to accuse you of running a fleet of em or anything but even the player bot loving hypocrites here hate gold bots.

i mean, if u still play this game, u know what you are dealing with. keeping that in mind i just dont care, dont whine and dont complain anymore.

Wonderful thing is what you say means nothing. Though you are free to say it I suppose

[NuclearSilo]

oh oh, player bot hates gold bot, is this a triangular conflict? o.o

[Goseki]

oh oh, player bot hates gold bot, is this a triangular conflict? o.o

Funny. So would gold bots = trader, player bots = thief, and legits = hunters?

I get a feeling legits might be slightly outnumbered...

I don't get why it's triangular conflict. It's more of a 2 vs 1 conflict. Hunters and traders are like buds, while thief is the opposing force for both. The only triangular thing about it is the 3 classes, the conflict itself is usually a shitload of thieves vs a few hunters and traders.

[NuclearSilo]

nope, it's actually trader=goldbot (with shitload of gold), hunter=player bot(because it is ally with trader, buy gold=>without hunter, trader can barely exist, etc...), thief=legit (whoever wants to destroy other forces)

[Trace]

i dun give a shit about bot players. if they want and the owner of the game allows em, who am i to be a legit nazi?
also, i dun hav nothing against goldbots, except for fillin the server and spamming. if ppl buy gold, the goldbots are still there and, again, the owner does nothing about it, wwhy would i get mad about it?
i mean, if u still play this game, u know what you are dealing with. keeping that in mind i just dont care, dont whine and dont complain anymore.

If you don't bot, and if you don't buy gold, and also not care about the problems in the game, then you wouldn't bother posting here expressing strongly against the opinions of players who do. If you genuinely "dont care, dont whine and dont complain anymore", you won't even bother reading this thread.

[TheDrop]

nope, it's actually trader=goldbot (with shitload of gold), hunter=player bot(because it is ally with trader, buy gold=>without hunter, trader can barely exist, etc...), thief=legit (whoever wants to destroy other forces)

Maybe thats how JM wanted the triangular conflict to be