Why can we talk about pk2editor, but not bot software?

[Fly]

lol. some ppl need to take a break from posting. it appears the big words in nightbloom's post has fried some peoples brains.

joymax makes silkroad.
joymax makes rules for silkroad.
joymax says no pk2 editing.
you dont pk2 edit.

how hard is that to understand? just because you want it to be so, does not make it so. stop trying to defend a point of view that is proven wrong by joymax itself. it makes you look really stuborn which proves you cant handle the truth.

[Cruor]

I posted this a while back, but I think it's time for a repost. I updated a few things.

First off, look at the relevant section of the Operation Policy. Note that PK2 editing is not hacking. Here is the definition of hacking according to the User Agreement:

Hacking shall mean acquisition other’s cyber information without permission and breaking it. In the game, character, items and others that is the result by user’s efforts are stolen mainly. And many cyber money, character, items and etc. are copied in a short time, in the result of that, whole order of the game will be broken. All the above behavior is included in hacking.

That basically defines hacking as theft of an account or abuse of the system (item duping). It also mentions order of the game being broken. Account theft and item duping are not possible through PK2 editing. Disruption of the order of the game is possible, however if all you are doing is simple edits such as 8th-9th degree you won't be disrupting the game. There are two edits where it is possible to disrupt the game. The [GM] tag edit which was patched and the censor bypass edit which can still be done, however I feel no pity for you if you get banned for cursing at a GM.

The relevant section of the Operation Policy is then the System Abuse Policy.

5. System Abuse Policy

5.1 If a user is found abusing a bug or system glitch, the user may have his account restricted or erased. Listed below are similar instances in which similar action may be taken.
– If a user is found to be inducing or encouraging particular behavior with the intent of placing undue stress on systems.
– If a user discovers a bug and, instead of reporting it directly to a GM or Customer Support, tells other users
– If a user knowingly benefits indirectly from exploitation of a bug.

5.2 Users found to be using or distributing illegal programs may be subject to restrictions of their account or have their account deleted. In particular cases, the user may be subject to investigation by the proper authorities.

The abuse of a bug or system glitch is partially defined as "copying of items and etc." in the Punishment Policy. This is too subjective in my opinion to include modification of the game client. PK2 modification cannot in any way place undue stress on any systems other than your own so that part is ruled out as well.

The Operation Policy says this of things not covered within it:

8.1 Normally all punishments will follow the table below however additions/revisions are possible and will be announced in notices.

morningdew did make a notice regarding PK2 editing, and here it is:

Please do not edit the files on the Silkroad folder for the 9th degree effect. The patch may find you have a check sum error then ban you for 3rd party software used on your computer. Besides, tampering with the software may bring unrecoverable disasters.

This leaves much to be questioned. Nothing is mentioned about modifying the PK2 files for things other than the "9th degree effect". Only the possibility of being banned due to a checksum error is mentioned after that however I have not experienced this myself and question it's validity. If you mess up your PK2 files or they are corrupted, the game will simply not start, thus you cannot provide your user information for banning. Regardless, morningdew did not make a revision to the Punishment Policy of the Operation Policy, and so there is still no punishment outlined for modification of PK2 files.

Later on, morningdew posted this on the forums:

PK2 Editing is Illegal.

Altering clients is punishable.

You could say this is definitive proof that PK2 editing is against the rules. However, the user agreement I agreed to says that I am only required to regard notices posted on the front page of the website:

8. User must read regularly and be familiar with the notices posted through the game website 'Silkroad Online' (http://www.silkroadonline.net).

Thus, the forum post can't be taken as the official policy regarding PK2 editing.

There is this last part of the Operation Policy which could be applied to PK2 modification.

1.3 All GM’s/CS are familiar with Silkroad Online operation policy and thus all services and actions of the Silkroad Online operations team are administered according to the operation policy. Also, any details not covered in this Operation Policy may be resolved in accordance with common rules and regulations.

This says that anything not covered in that policy may be resolved in accordance with common rules and regulations. What are common rules and regulations though? Where do you draw the line?

Most recently, another notice was posted regarding a modified client:

Abnormal client (ex: Hacking client with unnatural data) is not accessable after the inspection and will be punished strongly if one tries to access with such a client.

Please re-setup the normal client whoever uses the abnormal client and we recommend you not to use illegal program such as bot program right away.

Although this is aimed at bots, this could apply to PK2 editors too. Although still no punishment has been outlined for PK2 editing (I checked the Operation Policy today) we will have to wait and see how this affects PK2 editors.

Many people have edited their PK2 files secretly, though I have done it openly and posted proof of it. Through all of this, I have not had my account suspended or banned. In fact, I haven't even spoken to a GM or any other employee of Joymax. It is a personal decision whether or not you want to modify your PK2 files, and based on what I have read in the User Agreement and Operation Policy I have chosen to do so. Until the User Agreement and/or Operation Policy are updated or a notice is posted specifically regarding PK2 editing and outlining clear and concise punishment for it I will continue to make my edits.

In regards to the OP, you clearly do not understand the moral differences between PK2 editing and botting. One is a malicious intent to both cheat and ruin the game experience for the community. The other is a way to show the future of Silkroad to the community or kill boredom. May I remind you that PK2 editing has answered many important questions and needs of the community. It finally confirmed that there are no new glows past +9. It lets us have a look at the stats of GM armor. It answered the question of the final level cap. It confirms the existence and potential implementation of Item Mall items such as the stat point resets and 16 week tickets. It allows us to see both the physical appearance and stats of future transports or equipment. It shows us the potential weapon types for the Islam characters, far before anything has even been released. It let us play foreign versions of SRO, in English. In the future, it can even provide a method for those who don't speak English to translate SRO into their language. PK2 editing provides the community with information that Joymax will not provide, and as such should be considered a resource rather than a crime.

[nightbloom]

No one is saying it is malicious.

You left out this small jewel in the agreement:

1.3 All GM's/CS are familiar with Silkroad Online operation policy and thus all services and actions of the Silkroad Online operations team are administered according to the operation policy. Also, any details not covered in this Operation Policy may be resolved in accordance with common rules and regulations.

morningdew statement of "PK2 editing is illegal", by the above article, makes it a fact. It is not a change in the policy, but a further clarification.



And all arguing aside, if they ban you for 100 years for altering your client, you will be arguing this point till you are out of breath because they do not reverse bans unless they are for chargeback, based on the above article of the agreement. That has been their official stance since the first "War on bots" ban. I dont feel like looking up the official notice that was released at that time....

[sama98b]

Just stop the talk about it.
Whoever want to edit pk2 let it, the rest who think it's illegal just shtp. about it.

[Cruor]

morningdew statement of "PK2 editing is illegal", by the above article, makes it a fact. It is not a change in the policy, but a further clarification.

According the the User Agreement I understand that I am not required to go through the forums to keep up on clarifications of policy, just the front page of the website. Any regulations that Joymax plans to actively enforce which are not outlined in the Operation Policy must be posted through a notice on the front page of the website if they intend for them to be followed. The day that happens will be the day I stop.

And all arguing aside, if they ban you for 100 years for altering your client, you will be arguing this point till you are out of breath because they do not reverse bans unless they are for chargeback, based on the above article of the agreement. That has been their official stance since the first "War on bots" ban. I dont feel like looking up the official notice that was released at that time....

I have nothing to argue, because I don't see my account and characters as being anything of value. In all honesty, if I was banned for 100 years I would just move on to another game rather than waste my breath on this one.

As for whether it is okay or not to discuss PK2 editing on this forum, if Joymax declares it to be a breach of the User Agreement and Operation Policy through a notice on the front page of the website, it's most likely that the only thing that will be affected here is stuff in the Guides section. Stuff posted in GD is generally either obtained only by PK2 extraction, which is not anywhere close to being defined as illegal, or it is things like screenshots of future items and such which I think will still be allowed as long as no mention of PK2 editing is made. As for things like the Seal of Cruor or Babe Summon Scroll that are purely PK2 edits, those will likely die out as I suppose they could be taken in the same vein as screenshots showing evidence of botting.