Thinking about a subclass for my rogue

[Deacon]

w00t thought this topic died

[NuclearSilo]

Mmm, wizard?

U can use Fear + Root so u have 20s free to kill your enemy

[bigbamboo]

So now that we know Pred was morningdew and for a pretty long time,he might have some ideas about why Rogue/bard pwns right?

Besides Speed Pred.

Why does Rogue/bard >Rogue/Cleric?

Seriously,I think u know something about future caps that we don't because during this cap they pretty much get a beating from alot of other builds.

Oh one other thing u said something about owning everybody in the server..Since u were a GM u would have acces to Teh PwN Gear/Weapon right?

U mentioned the idea is to stealth and kill asap.Agreed that Stealth is a killer tool.Thats why before getting cleric sub the following is what I did.

I used a speedpotion->went stealth and speed during stealth drastically increased.In other words,bard doesn't have an exclusive speedincreasing effect in Stealth.

So really,for a former GM I think you must have a better reason then just speed to suggest Rogue/Bard.

Might i add During PVP/jobs/wars.

[XemnasXD]

pred could've invented the game....that still doesn't make bard sub anything speacial...the only effects that stay after switch are moving march and noise 1 makes you move fast but its only 100% at later lvls wheras the potion is 100% no matter what lvl you are, the other is noise which keeps monsters at bay and won't really help you at all during PvP

[MrFudge]

mostly @ xenmas.

im gonna have to agree with pred and whoever says that cleric sub wont really help you last longer.

cuz it really doesnt, maybe in 1v1 cape fights but couple seconds into that bless and youre as good as done as soon as couple chinese/euros see you in war.

that is unless you dont wana turn on DD or XC, well then u wont be dropping any STR chinese anytime before ur death...but then you're just really trying to basically do a warrior job.

the build sounded great til i had it, then i just found myself just wanting to stealth +prick +stealth+prick over and over.

and id anxiously wait for the next nub to come out before my bless was over under stealth lol.

i guess i just dont like rogues anymore, pretty big 'let down' build after you can basically kill anyone with a prick+any other skill.


yaaa sure get your rogue cleric for the cape fights when you're bored so other people dont say 'men NO BAFFS from others.' As for cleric and bard sub, it should be taken care of in war anyway, unless youve got a really bad guild/union.

[John_Doe]

thinking outside the box, thus meaning in big wars your not the only one with bless, buffs from cleric, thus loosing your only advantage in def. So to the point I wouldn't mind not wasteing 200k on speed pots that only last 30 minutes.

[IowU]

im gonna have to agree with pred and whoever says that cleric sub wont really help you last longer

u have no idea what u r talkin about!
there so many ways that u can use cleric subclass as a great support for ur rogue...

pred has/had rogue/bard thats why hes tryin to proove his point but the fact is that cleric sub gives huge advantage and gives possibility to do few strikes and not die... when u r bard in the moment u go out of the stealth u can be sure u r dead in 90% (10% is when u run away and get blocks on shield)...

example?: i fought many times when i was outnumbered sometimes it was even 15+2packs of mercs vs me and always was able to kill 2-4ppl before i died... when its 2-3vs1 is piece of cake for me... wit the swift switchin of weapon healing and binding i own badly... so stop saying stuff that cleric wont help u last more cuz its stupid...

and it also makes the rogue best pvp char u can make...

wit my rogue i can pwn on job and on cape wit or w/o stealth in duel every char i want... from sun+9 glavier in sun+7(protector) set ->assface33 in grassj eq to heavy pimped wizzards... now tell me can u do that wit rogue/bard?

also i can help wit cleric sub who ever i want on job/guildwar/fw...

that makes cleric much much better sub for rogue than bard...

[bigbamboo]

and it also makes the rogue best pvp char u can make...

This is the reason why I choose cleric,yes bard is useful.But Cleric sub + speedpot is far more useful considering u have the speed + bless + Recovery division+ Immunity+ Heaven Glare which IOwU Succesfully showed is very effective in Battle.Not immortal,but certainly the best for Rogue in any Pvp enviroment,jobs,wars etc.

Really,i don't get it why people don't get it >.<

I suspect its aspect of running faster and spending less SP that makes them Naive.

@-IowU- P.s. Ur stage6 vid is what makes me fall in love with rogue/clerics all over again it's so inspirational and u got some serious talent in pvp <3

[bigbamboo]

To the starter of this topic,

U want to be good PVE and farm little,run fast-> Choose bard sub.
U want to be Godly @ PVp,Jobs AND party grinding etc and farm a little more to Kick ass->Choose Cleric sub.

Ps.~Watjes kiezen bard:P

[Lixiae]

link to the rogue/cleric vid?

[bigbamboo]

DevilIowU pvp Vid,

http://stage6.divx.com/user/Spun86/vide ... ompilation

Tell me what u think of it after seeying it=)

(its not mine,all credit goes to IowU on this forum)
At least I think thats the owner.

[IowU]

well by the time i was recording that movie i was still learning how to play... i improved my set wit perry ratio (i had 230 back then xD ) uped all skills from daggers (now i have full dps w/o interruptions in skillz) found more cool techniques how to fight against others...
+7 xbow/+7 daggers set +4/+5 (back then i had +5 weapons and set +3 w/o perry ratio in it)
and finally devil wings :>

now i only pvp wit ppl who got sun+5/+7/+9 and some sun set parts or full sets :>

and im thinkin about recoding new movie cuz the old movie is like 40% of that what i can do now :]

[Lixiae]

pretty good vid, but was about what I expected.

[5hadow]

Hello,

I enjoyed the video and I think that the use of heavens flare was particularly effective.

A quick background note about me, im a 7x rogue/bard at the moment and I very much like the build with hit and run tactics, I consider myself heavily PVP based even with bard sub.

Back to the topic on rogue/cleric, looking at the video and analysing it, the cleric class is clearly a survival/tank sub that is only effective for daggers rather than anything else.

As a result, I think the cleric buffs are quite unnecessary- especially against pure str characters or those with snow shield on as proven in the video, and here are my reasons:

Using the IowU's video as a basis for my arguement, here were the tactics and the skill order used almost every time:

-Start off with bless+Desperate+dagger skills to see if the opponent will get killed quick i.e. within 2-3 skills. If failed and often this is the case, plan B is enacted that consists of:

- Heavens flare to root the pure str/snowed character, get some distance, xbow xtreme, kb/kd/wait for lucky crit and the opponent doesn't even get a chance to land a decent blow.

In my opinion, if this were the case, plan B is fail-safe, however where is the need for cleric skills?

If stealthed and with xbow xtreme already activated, you completely skip the heavens glare bit, and start off with xbow skills, making the cleric skills redundant.

For those who like using dagger as I do, if you can't kill your opponent (especially chinese with hardly any pot delay) after 3-5 skills, your not going to kill him with daggers. Therefore with daggers, hit and run is a very good option as you can bust 2-3 skills whilst taking 1-2 hits at most if your opponent is fast.

If you know that your opponent can tank and that your daggers cant kill him, you would use xbow to start off with in the first place, and possibly end up not being hit at all.

Putting the situation into job war, the moment you expose yourself from stealth, you need to kill fast and get out of there before the rest of the enemy's party gang you. Ideally, you would want to run as fast as possible, which is why I chose bard as my sub. Since daggers often hit the hardest with prick+combo, it takes out the enemy fast but you are at close quarters with the rest of his party, hence running away to restealth is essential.

Xbow is good for chasing enemies who are fleeing, and I rarely use it as an opener since it often does not guarantee the fastest kill.

Conclusion: I don't see the need for cleric skills as there is nothing about tanking in the equation. I do see the need that after unstealthing and attacking, there is the need to runaway to restealth, and also in a party with friends, you can buff them 90% speed to help run faster, either to retreat, or to chase down remaining enemies which will benefit your group greatly.

Hope I've been helpful =)

[XemnasXD]

with a cleric sub you don't have to run away after you expose yourself...if you need time to do something use heaven flash...i think thats the main draw and best thing about it. i consider having to run away after i reveal myself a weakness and Cleric sub-class fixes that.

it comes down to your PvP style the Rogue is at its core a hit and run character.

Thats why we have sub-classes to cover up weaknesses

Bard - If you like running away from the fight
Cleric- If you like staying in the fight

Both do there purpose very well and it all comes down to how you like to play

[Deacon]

I never have been a runner. If I counter 5 people I will fight and die prolly. I never like to run, I rather face them kill 1 or 2 and die then run away and be a coward..

My thoughts are 99% going to Cleric.. So gonna pick Cleric prolly

[MrFudge]

what i wanna see is crossbow rogue/cleric against a sun pure str bow.

so ahem, IowU, get on that quick

[5hadow]

I never have been a runner. If I counter 5 people I will fight and die prolly. I never like to run, I rather face them kill 1 or 2 and die then run away and be a coward..

My thoughts are 99% going to Cleric.. So gonna pick Cleric prolly

Ah yes, cleric would definitely benefit as a sub if your fighting style is that you suggested above.

I personally don't like getting touched by people i dont like =p

gluck with your sub!

[Deacon]

I never have been a runner. If I counter 5 people I will fight and die prolly. I never like to run, I rather face them kill 1 or 2 and die then run away and be a coward..

My thoughts are 99% going to Cleric.. So gonna pick Cleric prolly

Ah yes, cleric would definitely benefit as a sub if your fighting style is that you suggested above.

I personally don't like getting touched by people i dont like =p

gluck with your sub!

Yeah thats my fighting style. Fight or die. And thanks

[mcmurdoc]

rogue/bard

faster XD ^^

[IowU]

Start off with bless+Desperate+dagger skills to see if the opponent will get killed quick i.e. within 2-3 skills. If failed and often this is the case, plan B is enacted that consists of:

not rly i have 270pdef when im on DD and bless spell so i die same as i wouldnt have bless spell...

actually im using daggers in first place to put dull on ppl (in situation when they use green pills then i have 5secs to bind them and hit 1st most important distance shot)
well root technique (rogue/bard) sux cuz smart ppl put their shield on cast mana shield and teleport to asap then u r dead... (most of the time)

bless spell and dull allows me to tankt 5-6hits and thats a lot :>

anyway im gona record new movie after i buy new hdd :>

if some1 got requests for pvps (ill find smartest and suned players to show u power of a rogue/cleric)

and than i will show u how to pwn 1h+warlock like vapore with unfarmed 80lvl npc eq +4 weapon char:>

@EDIT

Putting the situation into job war, the moment you expose yourself from stealth, you need to kill fast and get out of there before the rest of the enemy's party gang you. Ideally, you would want to run as fast as possible, which is why I chose bard as my sub. Since daggers often hit the hardest with prick+combo, it takes out the enemy fast but you are at close quarters with the rest of his party, hence running away to restealth is essential.

thats completly not true what u wrote...

at the gate fight:
most of the time im outnumbered so i prick->butterfly than i put rod+shield->pdef->mdef (1.5k pdef 1.9k mdef)->holy recovery->healing cycle now every1 is trying to kill me but its almost impossible and im tryin to run around (in this moment my pt mates comin out of the gate and i buff them wit strs ints and they kill every1)
i always kill the most suned player in 1st place so my pt could easly kill the rest... after every1 is dead i switch to xbow and i go stealth and when they attack im waiting till every1 is fighting than i backstab them wit xbow :>

full str cleric is 5x much better than blader in sun set+7 wit +7 sun shield :>

[MrFudge]

find the best sun bow on oasis

[bigbamboo]

Yes yesh Sun bow vs xbow i like the idea Mr.Fudge =) I'd love to see that as well.Especially considering IowU pulled some new tricks out of the hat I didnt even think about Use yer +7 xbow at the very least though,i mean SUN+7 or SUN +9 Bow against a +4 Xbow is not really a fair fight.

[MrFudge]

Yes yesh Sun bow vs xbow i like the idea Mr.Fudge =) I'd love to see that as well.Especially considering IowU pulled some new tricks out of the hat I didnt even think about Use yer +7 xbow at the very least though,i mean SUN+7 or SUN +9 Bow against a +4 Xbow is not really a fair fight.

lol i was pvping some xbows today, and i realized xbow knockback doesnt cancel out chinese bows strongbow or devil arrow
i guess knockdown or distance shot crit's the big way to go.

[5hadow]

@IowU

Ah ok, well from what I understood of the video, your xbow skills itself would have been suffice in taking out your opponent, and the only situations when your cleric skills were useful was when you were up, close and personal with daggers, where if it were me, id have hit and run =)

Well, what I meant from job war was not gate fight but proper jobbing. I assume you are still a theif (YAY) so if possible, could you make a video of you in a pt whilst looting stuff? Little request- could it be from start to finish instead of when you have bless buff on since I know theres a considerable amount of cool down time for that. thanks!!!

[aleksandar92]

I went with rogue/bard.

Reasons:

I enjoy hit and run.

I'm a theif. During trade/job wars, I take on the responsibility to take out the garment/protector/robes/light armour wearers as they often do the highest damage per hit/skill, or they have the power to res/buff.

In a party of theives about to knock out a party trade, I wait until the battle has already begun before I make my move so I use the element of surprise. Often, my main target is the resser/buffer or even the trader himself so that they cannot progress further towards the next town once the loot has been scattered across the floor.

During job war, 1v1- its prick+combo is often enough to kill most characters. I tend not to target shields as their blocks are troublesome. I generally do not enjoy job wars as the exp is quite small, relative to that of doing a trade loot, and that job war can easily be simulated the same way as pvp cape (except without the exp gaining/losing).

In my opinion, rogues- by essence, like an assassin, are to kill fast and to get away from the scene of the crime ASAP. Rogues that stay around will simply get caught and gang banged, so my idea is to "live and fight another day".

The over-riding question is; what is the best way to survive?

Well, first question: even with a fully farmed 80 chi with speed, how many people can run at 90% speed and catch you?

second question: if you stay around for 10 seconds or more, how many more opponents will be hitting you? start off with the initial person, thats ok, u can tank him with your cleric buffs..but can u tank 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 with their dulls, freezes, burns, stuns, shocks, kd, kb. Even with speed scrolls, you will stay longer than u shud and get ganged.

Personally, i'd run as soon as i make my move on my opponent.

Some may call it cowardice, however others would call it tactics/cunning/wit, all of which are aspects of a rogue in my opinion.

I dont think that running away is a sign of losing...retreating, is not losing a battle. Losing is when there is no escape, and death is the only option.

It is about giving yourself time to regroup or rething your tactics, or to simply waste time so that your enemies' buff wear out, and your next assault will have greater impact.

It is about gaining the element of surprise again which in any situation will give the rogue the upperhand in a battle.

Apologies for my long post, well..not really =p....but this is how i play my rogue and i find it very effective.

hilarious post dude
i use the same tactics
awesome ninja thing btw

[Deacon]

Okay I picked CLERIC. Thats it, thanks for the chat guys =]

[Malicious]

Cleric fits you the most.

But for all those who are wondering. Or those who dont' get plvled/farmed. Choose Xbow/bard, once you hit 80, switch with curst hearts or silk into xbow/daggers/cleric. You'll own.