Sword/Shield < Spear Nuker

ginny · Post by **ginny** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:22 am

Would there be any disadvantage to going exclusively sword/shield PvE for a Nuker?

Or is Spear really a necessity for a nuker because of the higher damage?

The point is that Nukers are all about damage, but I am unsure how much of this damage relates to the Spear at high levels?

I could use some expert advice here as I am being given conflicting information by higher level Nukers in game: some say it does not increase their damage in the least using a Spear PvE, others claim it makes a difference. Help!

I am talking PvE here, as I am told PvP Sword/Shield is a little better.

VanHalen · Post by **VanHalen** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:30 am

imo, S/S makes you safe pots, because with the shield, you have more def and Block, with Sword you do good damage, and you can 2 shot mobs.

With Spear is almost the same... you have less def and no block, but you do more dmg, but still 2 shots.

senapanaga · Post by **senapanaga** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:40 am

sword and shiled + nuking is too complex for me.

I like using one soul spear, and nuke. Instead of nuke, kd, stab, lion shout, and all that mess.

Takes up too much room on my hotkey bars xD.

Anyway.... lol. If you can find a good set-up on your F1-F4 bars then be a sword/shield nuker. I prefer spears.

MasterPuxxy · Post by **MasterPuxxy** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:53 am

naw!

I am full farmed lvl70 pure int! I think that qualified to answer this question!

Based my experience, Sword/Shield>>>>>>Spear.

You have kd+3 stab and blocks, save you a lot of life!

Spear is so easy to die, indeed spear has about do a little bit more dmg which is less than 700 dmg during PVP. 700HP for a pure str glav or blade = nothing! Especially, when you fight with blade without block and high defence, maxed (and unstopable) kd + 3 stab = death! you need at least 3 hit to kill a farmed blade, during that time, he already kd you for numrous times. and everytime he kd you, he will recover a lot HP, and you suffer a lot from his 3 stab. Trust Sword/Shield is nessessary. And especially after you maxed kd and 3 stab, you can fight with glav easily!
BTW, you need a lot of str stone, to push your HP to 7k at least then to max sword skill. before that. leave your spear skill 60lvl, so you have enough HP!

My char Blade 70, ice 68, lighting 70, fire 70, spear 20!
HP 7100, MP 13900! Maggic Balance 113%!

Also to compare top weapon:

SOS +7 spear with +61% maggic has cap maggic attack 1349.
SOS +7 sword with +61% maggic has cap maggic attack about 1270 (when mine is +5, the maggic attack is 1255.)

So about 700 dmg difference!

icechai · Post by **icechai** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 am

sword nukers are disadvantaged at higher lvls in PVE due to their weaker attack. In the caves its all about who kills the fastest and hits the hardest. If you have a super sword, then you can usually nuke + flower petal or lion shout to kill a monster (or sos+7 sword 1 hit kills). However, normal spear users can nuke + lion shout. Super spear users will 1 hit kill everything (if its sos+7 spear, forget about it, dont even go near that guy and just let him kill around his area

).

ginny · Post by **ginny** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:00 am

Thank you for the replies. I prefer Sword/Shield, but Spear seems to be popular PvE.

senapanaga wrote:sword and shiled + nuking is too complex for me.

I like using one soul spear, and nuke. Instead of nuke, kd, stab, lion shout, and all that mess.

Takes up too much room on my hotkey bars xD.

Anyway.... lol. If you can find a good set-up on your F1-F4 bars then be a sword/shield nuker. I prefer spears.

So you end up doing a lot more work on the keys? I never thought of that :O

Owie, my fingers hurt enough without making more work for them.

icechai wrote:sword nukers are disadvantaged at higher lvls in PVE due to their weaker attack.

Less damage sounds bad when you are a damage dealing class.

In the caves its all about who kills the fastest and hits the hardest. If you have a super sword, then you can usually nuke + flower petal or lion shout to kill a monster (or sos+7 sword 1 hit kills). However, normal spear users can nuke + lion shout. Super spear users will 1 hit kill everything (if its sos+7 spear, forget about it, dont even go near that guy and just let him kill around his area ).

Again, doing damage fast PvE is what nukers are for, so if Spear makes that much difference I should go without that...

Under protest =p

MasterPuxxy · Post by **MasterPuxxy** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:04 am

senapanaga wrote:sword and shiled + nuking is too complex for me.

I like using one soul spear, and nuke. Instead of nuke, kd, stab, lion shout, and all that mess.

Takes up too much room on my hotkey bars xD.

Anyway.... lol. If you can find a good set-up on your F1-F4 bars then be a sword/shield nuker. I prefer spears.

haha! so ture!

I use imbue + kd + 3 stab + nuke + kd (or lion-shock or 5 combo sword attack)! if you kd failed, phantom! (there is a lot of trick in it!)

ginny · Post by **ginny** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:07 am

MasterPuxxy wrote:I use imbue + kd + 3 stab + nuke + kd (or lion-shock or 5 combo sword attack)! if you kd failed, phantom! (there is a lot of trick in it!)

That sounds like lots more work: what would the Spear users keypresses look like in comparison?

MasterPuxxy · Post by **MasterPuxxy** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:14 am

icechai wrote:sword nukers are disadvantaged at higher lvls in PVE due to their weaker attack. In the caves its all about who kills the fastest and hits the hardest. If you have a super sword, then you can usually nuke + flower petal or lion shout to kill a monster (or sos+7 sword 1 hit kills). However, normal spear users can nuke + lion shout. Super spear users will 1 hit kill everything (if its sos+7 spear, forget about it, dont even go near that guy and just let him kill around his area ).

haha, so not ture!
When only I have +7 sword, I can kill everything in one hit except nachel and yachel!!
Now I have +5 SOS sword, I can kill nachel and yachel in one hit!

My friend with SOS+7 Sword cannot even hurt me, since I have sos garment set(+4)! when fight with str build, I use armor sos set! 351 int, 113% maggic balance!

hehe! Invincible!

VanHalen · Post by **VanHalen** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:30 am

O.o.. but with sword you can do: fire nuke+light nuke.. or Fire nuke+lion+lion... i dont see why use KD,Stab and all those skills in PvE... only if you want use others skills for avoid the routine.

and with Spear i see better 1 nuke+Ghost Spear, or 1 nuke+Soul Spear., or also 1 nuke+lion.

MasterPuxxy · Post by **MasterPuxxy** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:34 am

VanHalen wrote:O.o.. but with sword you can do: fire nuke+light nuke.. or Fire nuke+lion+lion... i dont see why use KD,Stab and all those skills in PvE... only if you want use others skills for avoid the routine.

and with Spear i see better 1 nuke+Ghost Spear, or 1 nuke+Soul Spear., or also 1 nuke+lion.

All the stuff i am talking about above is about PVP!

For PVE, I kill everything in one hit with the 2rd book fire wave.

VanHalen · Post by **VanHalen** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:40 am

but ginny was asking about PvE :p

imo, in pvp, is personal choice what chose, spear or sword for pvp. At highers lvls nukers change and use Spear for pvp, someone of them go to the hybrid style, maybe i will do that, dunno now, but well.. i have months to think about that.

ShizKnight · Post by **ShizKnight** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:16 am

MasterPuxxy wrote:
icechai wrote:sword nukers are disadvantaged at higher lvls in PVE due to their weaker attack. In the caves its all about who kills the fastest and hits the hardest. If you have a super sword, then you can usually nuke + flower petal or lion shout to kill a monster (or sos+7 sword 1 hit kills). However, normal spear users can nuke + lion shout. Super spear users will 1 hit kill everything (if its sos+7 spear, forget about it, dont even go near that guy and just let him kill around his area ).

haha, so not ture!
When only I have +7 sword, I can kill everything in one hit except nachel and yachel!!
Now I have +5 SOS sword, I can kill nachel and yachel in one hit!

My friend with SOS+7 Sword cannot even hurt me, since I have sos garment set(+4)! when fight with str build, I use armor sos set! 351 int, 113% maggic balance!

hehe! Invincible!

You know what I'm hearing? Blah blah blah, SoS, blah blah blah, I pwn. Which doesn't have to do with PvE.

icechai · Post by **icechai** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:06 am

lol seriously, kill everything in 1 hit except nachal and yachal.. well good for you, however sp/xp is most efficient at the moment from nachal and yachal.

Also about the hotkeys... i think every weapon except bow has a pretty damn full hotkey. For spear my f1 set is maxed out w/ imbue, fire nuke, light nuke, sss, chain, mars, prince, pet heal potion, vigor potion, and fire wall, f3 has my shield/spear to switch for kd situations.

For sword, ideally i would probably have imbue, fire nuke, light nuke, kd book 3, kd book 2, stab book 3, stab book 2, heaven's chain, vigor, and firewall. so that's 1 more skill i have to put in there than spear. although my f3 would be more free because i wouldn't have to switch to shield ever.

phulshof · Post by **phulshof** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:24 am

My experience so far has been: if it moves, then S&S is better in PvE. Yes, perhaps I need 2 nukes/penon warrior, and maybe a spear user could get away with 1 nuke+lion shout, but I don't use 2 nukes. I use 1 nuke, then move to the next, etc. My shield keeps me alive while I sometimes got 5-6 penon warriors around me, and let the splash do the damage I need on top of my first nuke.

Slashdot · Post by **Slashdot** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:40 am

From my experience, sword/shield nuker kicks ass. I'm a fully farmed glaiver myself, and I have to admit that I can't beat a fully farmed S/S nuker. The KD + stab + nuke combo is amazingly effective. I think the only I can beat them is with an SoS with high crit. Even though I manage to do high crits, they recover their HP when they knock me down and stab me. Also, high BR shields deflect so much of my stuns and crits. I wish I had made my char full int. instead of full str. sometimes because of this build.

MasterPuxxy · Post by **MasterPuxxy** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:41 pm

Slashdot wrote:From my experience, sword/shield nuker kicks ass. I'm a fully farmed glaiver myself, and I have to admit that I can't beat a fully farmed S/S nuker. The KD + stab + nuke combo is amazingly effective. I think the only I can beat them is with an SoS with high crit. Even though I manage to do high crits, they recover their HP when they knock me down and stab me. Also, high BR shields deflect so much of my stuns and crits. I wish I had made my char full int. instead of full str. sometimes because of this build.

Thats right,man!
Especailly, when you get SOS shield with BR 21 + sos sword +7 = undefeatable.

But, PVP depends on luck a lot! a extra block, success kd, crit or stun change a lot of things! Controlling is also important!

p.s. without kd and stab, int build is hard to fight with prue str glav in general, disregard the fact that the gear,lvl,farming difference!

Juey · Post by **Juey** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:08 pm

Listen to masterpuxxy he knows what he talks about (he is from my svr so i've seen him in action). And its the PVP that requires strategic thinking in addional to gear, skill etc, PVE is a nobrainer, waste of forum space to discuss that.

jabbers · Post by **jabbers** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:55 pm

Also to compare top weapon:

SOS +7 spear with +61% maggic has cap maggic attack 1349.
SOS +7 sword with +61% maggic has cap maggic attack about 1270 (when mine is +5, the maggic attack is 1255.)

So about 700 dmg difference!

thats more like sos+3/4 spear ^^ the +7 sos spear i seen was like 1450-1500 and not even as high as 61%

Ice771x · Post by **Ice771x** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:58 pm

im actually in the process now of switching from spear to sword. ill update you guys when im done lol

Da_Realest · Post by **Da_Realest** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:17 pm

Spear for PvE. Most of the time the mob will die before it even touches you.

Spear for PvP unless 1v1, then you would use sword and shield.

BlindSpear · Post by **BlindSpear** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:41 pm

MasterPuxxy wrote:SOS +7 spear with +61% maggic has cap maggic attack 1349.
SOS +7 sword with +61% maggic has cap maggic attack about 1270 (when mine is +5, the maggic attack is 1255.)

So about 700 dmg difference!

No... Billion's sos +7 spear has 61% mag and its mag attack is 1471. (see it here in a old post http://www.silkroadforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=18151)

And Spear have higher reinforce. The diference in damage is much bigger them only 700, lol.

But still, i think that for pure ints S+S is always better cauz after
farmed u do a lot of dmg with the 3 stabs and shield is a must
for someone with low hp. :wink:

ginny · Post by **ginny** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:13 pm

Thank you for the replies, you all.

If I go sword/shield, what skills should I take in that tree (and to what level, if not max)?

Guessing:

Max Smashing Series
Max Shield Protection (Passive)

[SD]Master_Wong · Post by **[SD]Master_Wong** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:16 pm

if your a nuker no wep skills needed just 100% mag attacks also means you can switch between weps depending some nukers like wep skills others dont just if your spear get stun skill sword knock down if you are gona get skills

Priam · Post by **Priam** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:43 am

Smasging series is like the first skill thing in the list right? if it is: DONT max it. or even use it for that part.

U need KD and Stab. Maybe the passive. And if you want the chain thing, the one with heaven chain as the last book,.

ginny · Post by **ginny** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:06 am

Thank you for the replies.

Do Spear users Max Soul and Ghost?

Most seem to keep Spear at level 60 mastery: what do the skills look like at 60 mastery? Actually, I think Mars requires 63 Mastery...

icechai · Post by **icechai** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:20 am

ginny wrote:Thank you for the replies.

Do Spear users Max Soul and Ghost?

Most seem to keep Spear at level 60 mastery: what do the skills look like at 60 mastery? Actually, I think Mars requires 63 Mastery...

if you plan to pvp at all, max your spear and sss and mars. Makes a huge difference especially when you need that instant 6k mars damage to finish off your opponent.

Listen to Masterpux all you want, sword/shield are proven to be great for pvp due to survivability. Although in wars you'll be relegated to just nuking and running around. Ask people from Troy server, spear is recognized as great for pvp as well, but you must run around more and use firewall at the right times. One nice thing about spear is the instant damage from mars. You see 2 guildmates hit someone for 5k ish each? well don't let that enemy pot back up!! mars him and he's gone

and to explain about the sword/shield in wars: sure you can knockdown, but going to stab them chances are others will see this and gang up on you. Also other blader allies usually won't be able to get there fast enough to do more than 1 stab on your knocked down opponent, or vice versa. Unless you have a really unified team of sword/bladers, kd is rendered useless for sword in wars due to their lack of HP, it's like a beacon of "hey i'm a sword int come kill me now"

ginny · Post by **ginny** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:29 am

Thank you. How far do you take the Spear mastery? When you say Max, do you mean keep it equal to Fire/Lightning always?

jabbers · Post by **jabbers** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:53 am

ginny wrote:Thank you. How far do you take the Spear mastery? When you say Max, do you mean keep it equal to Fire/Lightning always?

u should since the mastery lvl gives x% damage increase

icechai · Post by **icechai** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:46 am

jabbers wrote:
ginny wrote:Thank you. How far do you take the Spear mastery? When you say Max, do you mean keep it equal to Fire/Lightning always?

u should since the mastery lvl gives x% damage increase

exactly, if you use any spear skills at all, you will want it the same as fire. It's up to you if you want to lvl lightning past the max of all the skills, i don't see a point though since you won't be using light as much in pvp heheh [cuz fire has more range and if in crowd, mars might be more useful than light]