Discussion on the validity of New GMs. From Krush's post.

[Goseki]

<<It wasn't my intention to be classy. If the community had a brain to go back ontopic after a Mods interference, I would have left it open, so please don't aim your QQ'ing at me. - Ru>>

I wanted to start a conversation about what you guys think about iSRO's lifespan. Honestly, after reading Krush's post, I don't think there is much of a chance of JM ever honestly getting rid of botters anymore. I'll prob stop playing soon anyways due to school, and now research work as well. I started my Christmas break kind of excited. No more TA-ing, just chillaxing, friend gave me his high lvl for christmas to pvp and play with, even bought some silk. Now I think I'm gonna be giving it back. Once you read through this, (edited for bot promotion), what do you guys think. If the new GM don't have any balls, what's the point in playing clinging to false hope that bots will be gone.

Also, I talked to Rivaer too, some turk came up, said fck you, fck your mom, suck mah dik, etc. etc. GM gave him a warning, than was like. BB, ban [NAME]. And the guy vanished. We were like WOAH GM is actually doing his job, he banned ppl!. Then GM left, I went stall network shopping, guess what, the nub logged back on and laughed. GM don't even have enough balls to ban someone, not even temp ban. All they can do is kick you and hope you don't have a prem. Good job.

If the mods just can't stand a discussion about how JM don't seem to have any actual plans or any willingness to enforce anti-bot rules [...]
<<Removed. Apparently you aren't able to understand it. It's not about the discussion, it's about thread derailing. Too often threads are completely derailed after someone admitted botting. One more comment about this, and I consider this thread derailed and I'll lock it. If you have a problem, send a PM. Preferably not to me. - Ru>>

So I talked to Rivaer for over an hour and a half this evening. (Notice I said 'to' and not with'... lul.) When I got back from work, he was near my main char in town, so I went over and started blabbing on about how the GM's are just a publicity stunt and whatnot. There was a rather large group of non-english speaking people there at this point, so no one could really get his attention. Heck, people wouldn't even stand in a line to get screenshots with him - it was just a big bunch of people. About at this point, I jokingly suggested to old guildmates that I was going to connect multiple chars and set up a stall message to get his attention.

So I did this, and by this point he moved from dw to sk, which was a rather large pain, since I had to move several chars' stalls to get his attention. People were still crowding around... someone even spawned a behemoth on top of him After a few mins, it was obvious he was getting rather frustrated because it was still just a big bunch of non-english speaking people not listening to his instructions. He then said he was going away, turned invisible, and everyone left. I got one of him actually in my stall. This was after probably 15 minutes of me talking not even knowing if he was still around. Basically I was asking questions about why things weren't being done to fix various problems within the game, and saying how -- well you get the idea, I was basically ranting. He commented that he liked my stalls, and went into my stall on my main char per my request .


He even said that he got my suggestions and would do something to fix the problems in the game. By this point, I was ecstatic since I wasn't sure if he would even respond to anything I was saying After a few more minutes of me saying whatever, I started talking about some of my SRO experiences, about how I've seen the game change over the years.



One of the last things he said to me is in that last SS. He basically eluded to him not being able to do anything about stopping me from doing what I was doing! Saying I should just not bot or just delete the chars... Some of my hope died at that point. I'm still puzzled as to what JM is doing with this new GM team. If they are legitimately trying to make the game better by fixing a few problems like botting/multiclienting, GOOD! ID LOVE TO SEE THAT! Honestly. The game would be more fun that way, even if I have to start from scratch with a new char. But his statement made it seem like they aren't going to do anything. Why would he leave the decision whether to bot or not up to me? It makes no sense.

After that, I blatantly said that he should ban all of my characters, but got no response.

*Edited quoted post for any bot reference. Hope I didn't miss any.

[Puma60]

<<If you wish to stick around here longer than me, I highly suggest you do not make another comment like that one. - Ru>>

[Squirt]

Since Ru-yi nicely banned and closed that topic with a very classy,

Next time, make a tl;dr version where you just state you are botting.

Well, several mods have resigned in a short period of time, and I'm inches away from packing my bags and following their example.

We're waiting...

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo
Stay

[Puma60]

JM just trying to make it look as though they are trying to do something. Imo JM will never ban bots, bots bring them money, and that's all they care about.

[Goseki]

JM just trying to make it look as though they are trying to do something. Imo JM will never ban bots, bots bring them money, and that's all they care about.

I thought that too when I first saw the event announced. I heard they were quiet and stood still. Than I met one and was like, woah he addressed me and talked in perfect english! Maybe we'll see GM's once more talking and doing stuff. I was elated when someone called the GM out and started the usual insults. When he vanished we were like woo! But reality set in within 10 mins. GM only kicks ppl, no bans. Now this. I noticed a few ppl saying GM i bot when I was near Rivaer, but I figured he wouldn't be able to read the chat anyways since it was all spam so fast.

This GM thing looks like another front of JM. We do something, temp better, than you guys buy silk, we let the game run itself... woopie...

[Lowis]

We spent 3-4 days without gold bots and it seemed to calm tensions up until the gold bots came back. And if they can't deal with people using vulgar language at them correctly, don't expect them to ban a bot.

[BuDo]

I'm kinda surprised as to why it took Krush's interaction with a GM to show all of you here that JM doesn't care about botting. Most of you been playing for over 3 years and have noticed the problem but still you were not convinced? You've seen friends and foes botting for years without consequences and you were still not convinced? Thats kinda retarded. Like I've said 100 times before....Joymax is the worst.

[PR0METHEUS]

Maybe Joymax should concentrate on banning gold buyers, not gold bots or player bots. If gold buying stops, gold bots will stop. Then it's just player bots. They will be easier to deal with in smaller numbers.

No more gold buying!

[TheKnight]

Maybe Joymax should concentrate on banning gold buyers, not gold bots or player bots. If gold buying stops, gold bots will stop. Then it's just player bots. They will be easier to deal with in smaller numbers.

No more gold buying!

Yeah, Goldbying S****!

[Lowis]

Nobody knows how much players are actually buying gold, people are already running their own gold bots to make money.

[NuclearSilo]

He lost. Only those who left the game win.
It's because ppl think the same thing (i bot because they bot, etc...) that made the game today. First it started with 1 bot, then increased over time because of that excuse.

[tylman094]

JM will never change. It's sad not everyone realizes this yet. The simplest solution to your iSRO problems is to move to another SRO Version. Plain and simple, yet everyone seems to overlook it. I made the move and couldnt be more happier.

[Sacchin]

JM just trying to make it look as though they are trying to do something. Imo JM will never ban bots, bots bring them money, and that's all they care about.

Yes we know and if anyone who plays sro doesn't is a retard. We all know this is all Joymax cares about, we didn't need proof and screen shots from a GM/some player (Who possibly doesn't have the immediate power to ban on the spot or just doesn't care). What you're saying is an old tune and a whole debate about it was totally pointless, just like Krush's entire post. Why am I seeing so many topics about this?

Argh, can't wait until this fucking game closes down forever.

[Goseki]

He lost. Only those who left the game win.
It's because ppl think the same thing (i bot because they bot, etc...) that made the game today. First it started with 1 bot, then increased over time because of that excuse.

That's hardly the whole reason though. Sure ppl use that reason to join it, but they do it simply because there is no reprimanded result. Like in that other MMO where it's ok for ppl to use the in-game bot. The company doesn't say it's bad, hell they made it. In SRO, sure JM says no-no, but look at Krush's pic. The GM basically says it's up to you to enforce it, we won't be doing anything except disconnecting ppl. Woo, about as good as ppl using bugs to dc bots before. Amazing change there.

That's the major issue there imo. No reprimand, just empty words. Hence people saw hmm I can play legit for years, or bot for a few months with no consequence.... Yea...

I really wonder if those GM are actually 15 seperate, new people, or a few same people using different accounts...

[Imagine]

i wish those GM do something about goldbots, cause traffic is getting worse each day QQ

[BaronSengir]

even though i dont play anymore
why would jm take out goldbots? it forces people to buy prem hence making them $$$, imagine a server just populated .... more than half the people wont even bother buying prem because then can log in anytime they want

[NuclearSilo]

He lost. Only those who left the game win.
It's because ppl think the same thing (i bot because they bot, etc...) that made the game today. First it started with 1 bot, then increased over time because of that excuse.

That's hardly the whole reason though. Sure ppl use that reason to join it, but they do it simply because there is no reprimanded result. Like in that other MMO where it's ok for ppl to use the in-game bot. The company doesn't say it's bad, hell they made it. In SRO, sure JM says no-no, but look at Krush's pic. The GM basically says it's up to you to enforce it, we won't be doing anything except disconnecting ppl. Woo, about as good as ppl using bugs to dc bots before. Amazing change there.

That's the major issue there imo. No reprimand, just empty words. Hence people saw hmm I can play legit for years, or bot for a few months with no consequence.... Yea...

I really wonder if those GM are actually 15 seperate, new people, or a few same people using different accounts...

Yes, but they use a bit of their brain, they'd realize that they are destroying their own game.

Look at what Mr. Krush ended up, he was too concentrate in convincing himself that it's all due to GM's irresponsibility but forgot that he is a part of the problem. And I think that GM wasn't wrong to call him a hypocrite.

Of course I know being powerful, being strong and rich are very tempting, but you need to avoid. Always think about the future and consequence.

GM let you decide the fate of the game. It's all up to you. Use the same way how botting is spread to spread your idea. If a friend tell you botting is good because of bla bla bla..., try to tell him botting is not good because of bla bla.... And then your friend will tell other friends, etc... Of course you need to use good arguments to convince him.

In SRF, I believe the majority of members are aware how bad botting made to this game. If you are aware of this, therefore your friends. We are all humans, right? I didn't say you need to convince him to stop botting, I only say that you should let him know about the sro situation due to botting. And also tell him to let his friends know about it too. That's the first step you should do, if somewhere in you has the faith for this game being better.

There has to be someone who start it first (to stop botting). You can't just do nothing like a sitting duck and hope "I will stop botting if my friends (or others) stop botting". No, that's not how this works. There has to be the first person, the leader, or whatever you called.

[BuDo]

even though i dont play anymore
why would jm take out goldbots? it forces people to buy prem hence making them $$$, imagine a server just populated .... more than half the people wont even bother buying prem because then can log in anytime they want

An excellent point. I'm sure the GMs and Joymax can see all these gold bots running around. Obviously goldbot population is vital to the sales of premium tickets.

[heroo]

Why is everyone crying?

As if this is news? We knew this ages ago.

JM doesn't give a sh!t people. It's a company, and the main objective of a company is to make profit. And if bots allow them to make more profit, there is no way they'll ever start banning bots seriously.

[Goseki]

He lost. Only those who left the game win.
It's because ppl think the same thing (i bot because they bot, etc...) that made the game today. First it started with 1 bot, then increased over time because of that excuse.

That's hardly the whole reason though. Sure ppl use that reason to join it, but they do it simply because there is no reprimanded result. Like in that other MMO where it's ok for ppl to use the in-game bot. The company doesn't say it's bad, hell they made it. In SRO, sure JM says no-no, but look at Krush's pic. The GM basically says it's up to you to enforce it, we won't be doing anything except disconnecting ppl. Woo, about as good as ppl using bugs to dc bots before. Amazing change there.

That's the major issue there imo. No reprimand, just empty words. Hence people saw hmm I can play legit for years, or bot for a few months with no consequence.... Yea...

I really wonder if those GM are actually 15 seperate, new people, or a few same people using different accounts...

Yes, but they use a bit of their brain, they'd realize that they are destroying their own game.

Look at what Mr. Krush ended up, he was too concentrate in convincing himself that it's all due to GM's irresponsibility but forgot that he is a part of the problem. And I think that GM wasn't wrong to call him a hypocrite.

Of course I know being powerful, being strong and rich are very tempting, but you need to avoid. Always think about the future and consequence.

GM let you decide the fate of the game. It's all up to you. Use the same way how botting is spread to spread your idea. If a friend tell you botting is good because of bla bla bla..., try to tell him botting is not good because of bla bla.... And then your friend will tell other friends, etc... Of course you need to use good arguments to convince him.

In SRF, I believe the majority of members are aware how bad botting made to this game. If you are aware of this, therefore your friends. We are all humans, right? I didn't say you need to convince him to stop botting, I only say that you should let him know about the sro situation due to botting. And also tell him to let his friends know about it too. That's the first step you should do, if somewhere in you has the faith for this game being better.

There has to be someone who start it first (to stop botting). You can't just do nothing like a sitting duck and hope "I will stop botting if my friends (or others) stop botting". No, that's not how this works. There has to be the first person, the leader, or whatever you called.

I think people tried that... called it something... o yea, Venus.

The bolded part in your quote silo, No.. just no... No game works smoothly when left up to the players. Enjoy carrying off dead bodies of soccer had no rules or refs. Things get vicious, out-of-hand, and insanely one-sided after awhile. If you have a game, there must be people to enforce rules and ensure that it runs smoothly. If not, cheating or whatever will be rampant. We are all humans after all aren't we?

Krush agreed with the GM, said go ahead and ban all my characters if you ban the rest as well. I've been to a few GM "sightings", there's always 1 person willing to lose his account/accounts if JM will do an even ban and ban everyone. They will either openly talk about botting in front of the GM, or insult the GM like no tomorrow. JM just doesn't care nor enforce the rules.

The thing is that even if you get a small group together, prob euros, that want to make parties and grind together, that's great. But it gets aggravating if ppl call in high lvl bots to ks you, or they rape you since they're 50 lvls higher. That's why I only pvp at certain areas with small crowds. Grind with guilds. It's really unfair. I thought my light nuker could ks anyone. Dash, speed, lion shouts, bicheon cuts. But no. Before the mob spawns it's dead. It's retarded. I gave up farming a new character and have been using a friend's instead. No point. Until JM actively bans people, this shit will never change.

[BuDo]

I think people tried that... called it something... o yea, Venus.

The bolded part in your quote silo, No.. just no... No game works smoothly when left up to the players. Enjoy carrying off dead bodies of soccer had no rules or refs. Things get vicious, out-of-hand, and insanely one-sided after awhile. If you have a game, there must be people to enforce rules and ensure that it runs smoothly. If not, cheating or whatever will be rampant. We are all humans after all aren't we?

Krush agreed with the GM, said go ahead and ban all my characters if you ban the rest as well. I've been to a few GM "sightings", there's always 1 person willing to lose his account/accounts if JM will do an even ban and ban everyone. They will either openly talk about botting in front of the GM, or insult the GM like no tomorrow. JM just doesn't care nor enforce the rules.

The thing is that even if you get a small group together, prob euros, that want to make parties and grind together, that's great. But it gets aggravating if ppl call in high lvl bots to ks you, or they rape you since they're 50 lvls higher. That's why I only pvp at certain areas with small crowds. Grind with guilds. It's really unfair. I thought my light nuker could ks anyone. Dash, speed, lion shouts, bicheon cuts. But no. Before the mob spawns it's dead. It's retarded. I gave up farming a new character and have been using a friend's instead. No point. Until JM actively bans people, this shit will never change.

The bolded section of Goseki's quote is a very big problem that has now become even bigger. Lots of people in the game as well as on here who are legits are starting to see more reasons to not be legit. Not when there is such blatant proof that they will not suffer any negative consequences for breaking the rules. SRO is truly now dead.

[heroo]

The bolded section of Goseki's quote is a very big problem that has now become even bigger. Lots of people in the game as well as on here who are legits are starting to see more reasons to not be legit. Not when there is such blatant proof that they will not suffer any negative consequences for breaking the rules. SRO is truly now dead.

were they blind the past 2 years?

[Karras]

Srsly... Botters was never a problem to SRF.
Its the cry babies that make this place a mess.
SRF is a place for a community isn't it?


Botters are JM's problem.

[BuDo]

The bolded section of Goseki's quote is a very big problem that has now become even bigger. Lots of people in the game as well as on here who are legits are starting to see more reasons to not be legit. Not when there is such blatant proof that they will not suffer any negative consequences for breaking the rules. SRO is truly now dead.

were they blind the past 2 years?

Not blind...but afraid of what they thought were guaranteed consequences for botting. Now they know for sure they wont be punished.

[NuclearSilo]

If not, cheating or whatever will be rampant. We are all humans after all aren't we?

I'm sorry, are you saying that all humans are meant to be cheater? That I cheat in every game without punishment rule and make someone else's game-play miserable? I'm sorry but this kind of thought is for bad-educated, low moral and no selfless people.

4 years ago remember? when the first bot came out there's still Crayon and other GMs banning bot. And things was getting out of control because of what? "I bot because my friend bot too". Punishment has its limitation. In computer world, there is nothing unbeatable, there is no perfect defense, there is no perfect attack, you can always find a method against something. It's just a matter of time. Supposing today JM find a way to stop bot. What's the first thing a botter do? Decide to stop botting? No. He would go to a hack forum to see if there is a method to bypass JM's defense, an anti-anti-bot. Yeah, temptation and selfish. It's not about JM, it's all about you.

[Goseki]

If not, cheating or whatever will be rampant. We are all humans after all aren't we?

I'm sorry, are you saying that all humans are meant to be cheater? That I cheat in every game without punishment rule and make someone else's game-play miserable? I'm sorry but this kind of thought is for bad-educated, low moral and no selfless people.

4 years ago remember? when the first bot came out there's still Crayon and other GMs banning bot. And things was getting out of control because of what? "I bot because my friend bot too". Punishment has its limitation. In computer world, there is nothing unbeatable, there is no perfect defense, there is no perfect attack, you can always find a method against something. It's just a matter of time. Supposing today JM find a way to stop bot. What's the first thing a botter do? Decide to stop botting? No. He would go to a hack forum to see if there is a method to bypass JM's defense, an anti-anti-bot. Yeah, temptation and selfish. It's not about JM, it's all about you.

Yes, 99.9% of humans aren't exactly moral leaders. This kind of thought is for people old enough to see the world and realize it for what it is. We try, but rarely do we succeed. This is even more true of kids who don't have strong moral standards yet or are easily swayed.

Look at every major organized game/sport. People still cheat, steroids, fouls, etc. What reduces these is that rules are ENFORCED CONSTANTLY. You break a rule, you get punished. Doesn't mean people will stop, it just means it keeps it to a reduced level. People still use drugs, people still do illegal moves, but the difference is that they are punished, even forever barred from playing ever again once they get caught. Thus the majority of players in all games/sports know that unless the profits outweigh the risk, they won't cheat.

In SRO's case, the rules are listed, but never/rarely enforced. Hence, with a majority of kids playing that barely speak good english, they see no punishment. They want to win, so they do what they can.

[Karras]

Y are ppl still arguing abt sticking to JM's TOS when JM themselves aren't sticking to it?
Its a game, its not your life...
Get over the bot issue already...

If you want to handcraft something, thats your choice...
Some ppl prefer to automate their production, thats their choice...

[Smi!ezZ]

SRO = FAIL game.

it used to be pretty nice, but now its just a hole you through time and/or money into with no benefit.

[BuDo]

If not, cheating or whatever will be rampant. We are all humans after all aren't we?

I'm sorry, are you saying that all humans are meant to be cheater? That I cheat in every game without punishment rule and make someone else's game-play miserable? I'm sorry but this kind of thought is for bad-educated, low moral and no selfless people.

4 years ago remember? when the first bot came out there's still Crayon and other GMs banning bot. And things was getting out of control because of what? "I bot because my friend bot too". Punishment has its limitation. In computer world, there is nothing unbeatable, there is no perfect defense, there is no perfect attack, you can always find a method against something. It's just a matter of time. Supposing today JM find a way to stop bot. What's the first thing a botter do? Decide to stop botting? No. He would go to a hack forum to see if there is a method to bypass JM's defense, an anti-anti-bot. Yeah, temptation and selfish. It's not about JM, it's all about you.

Yes, 99.9% of humans aren't exactly moral leaders. This kind of thought is for people old enough to see the world and realize it for what it is. We try, but rarely do we succeed. This is even more true of kids who don't have strong moral standards yet or are easily swayed.

Look at every major organized game/sport. People still cheat, steroids, fouls, etc. What reduces these is that rules are ENFORCED CONSTANTLY. You break a rule, you get punished. Doesn't mean people will stop, it just means it keeps it to a reduced level. People still use drugs, people still do illegal moves, but the difference is that they are punished, even forever barred from playing ever again once they get caught. Thus the majority of players in all games/sports know that unless the profits outweigh the risk, they won't cheat.

In SRO's case, the rules are listed, but never/rarely enforced. Hence, with a majority of kids playing that barely speak good english, they see no punishment. They want to win, so they do what they can.

Our ability to rationalize anything is what makes any human do some questionable things. Given the opportunity..and right time...and the frame of mind you were in at the moment even you nuclear silo can succumb to doing wrong. I'm sure you did things in your past that you never thought you'd do. I have to agree with Goseki on this one.

Without control and direction things go crazy. Why? because everyone will have their own interpretation of how things should be done and because of that individuality those things conflict with the interest and well being of other players. The game should not be left up to the community to manage it for these reasons. JM should do the right thing. But they refuse to.

[NuclearSilo]

Yes, 99.9% of humans aren't exactly moral leaders. This kind of thought is for people old enough to see the world and realize it for what it is. We try, but rarely do we succeed. This is even more true of kids who don't have strong moral standards yet or are easily swayed.

Look at every major organized game/sport. People still cheat, steroids, fouls, etc. What reduces these is that rules are ENFORCED CONSTANTLY. You break a rule, you get punished. Doesn't mean people will stop, it just means it keeps it to a reduced level. People still use drugs, people still do illegal moves, but the difference is that they are punished, even forever barred from playing ever again once they get caught. Thus the majority of players in all games/sports know that unless the profits outweigh the risk, they won't cheat.

In SRO's case, the rules are listed, but never/rarely enforced. Hence, with a majority of kids playing that barely speak good english, they see no punishment. They want to win, so they do what they can.

Of course we need JM's action to fix it. But you also need everyone's action too. You can't just sit in a place and wait for magic to happen.

In real life sport, one person use drug/cheat, thousands or even billions of people complain. In sro, 0.01% of the total players complain? And you can't actually compare it with sports. In sport, when you win, you could gain thousands of dollars, glory, pride. In sro, I nothing else you could gain beside "haha, i pwn you noob". If you easily turned into bot just because lots of ppl say that to you then I'm sorry you should play different game. Botting is not a solution, it's a problem.

As I stated before, if JM make an anti-bot system, the first thing a botter do is lurking around hack forum to search for a crack for this system. It's just a matter of time a crack will be released. The fight will never end. If you want to fix the game, both side needs to see their responsibility. You can't just sit in a place and wait.

It's about awareness of the situation of the game. If kids and turks can learn about bot, then he can learn other things too. They just need someone to guide them. Since kids are also easy to believe, convincing them that botting is bad for the game is possible too. Assuming you are a botter, if you invite a friend to play silkroad, you should first not to guide him to bot site. That's the least thing you can do.

I don't know what country you are living in but it seems that you saw in everyone around full of bad and evil, willingly hurt everyone else whenever they can. This is not just about cheating, but also about harming everyone else too. You gain advantage, widgets, add-on if there is no rule to stop it, i'm ok with it, but something like destroying someone's game-play, environment is worst. "You don't touch me, I won't touch you", that simple rule, what's hard to understand?