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WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:22 am
by ThatBluePerson
I remember someone posting here in a thread about a bank that will soon collapse. They were right. :shock:

By Elinor Comlay and Jonathan Stempel 56 minutes ago

NEW YORK/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Washington Mutual Inc was closed by the U.S. government in by far the largest failure of a U.S. bank, and its banking assets were sold to JPMorgan Chase & Co for $1.9 billion.
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Thursday's seizure and sale is the latest historic step in U.S. government attempts to clean up a banking industry littered with toxic mortgage debt. Negotiations over a $700 billion bailout of the entire financial system stalled in Washington on Thursday.

Washington Mutual, the largest U.S. savings and loan, has been one of the lenders hardest hit by the nation's housing bust and credit crisis, and had already suffered from soaring mortgage losses.

Washington Mutual was shut by the federal Office of Thrift Supervision, and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp was named receiver. This followed $16.7 billion of deposit outflows at the Seattle-based thrift since Sept 15, the OTS said.

"With insufficient liquidity to meet its obligations, WaMu was in an unsafe and unsound condition to transact business," the OTS said.

Customers should expect business as usual on Friday, and all depositors are fully protected, the FDIC said.

FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair said the bailout happened on Thursday night because of media leaks, and to calm customers. Usually, the FDIC takes control of failed institutions on Friday nights, giving it the weekend to go through the books and enable them to reopen smoothly the following Monday.

Washington Mutual has about $307 billion of assets and $188 billion of deposits, regulators said. The largest previous U.S. banking failure was Continental Illinois National Bank & Trust, which had $40 billion of assets when it collapsed in 1984.

JPMorgan said the transaction means it will now have 5,410 branches in 23 U.S. states from coast to coast, as well as the largest U.S. credit card business.

It vaults JPMorgan past Bank of America Corp to become the nation's second-largest bank, with $2.04 trillion of assets, just behind Citigroup Inc. Bank of America will go to No. 1 once it completes its planned purchase of Merrill Lynch & Co.

The bailout also fulfills JPMorgan Chief Executive Jamie Dimon's long-held goal of becoming a retail bank force in the western United States. It comes four months after JPMorgan acquired the failing investment bank Bear Stearns Cos at a fire-sale price through a government-financed transaction.

On a conference call, Dimon said the "risk here obviously is the asset values."

He added: "That's what created this opportunity."

JPMorgan expects to incur $1.5 billion of pre-tax costs, but realize an equal amount of annual savings, mostly by the end of 2010. It expects the transaction to add to earnings immediately, and increase earnings 70 cents per share by 2011.

It also plans to sell $8 billion of stock, and take a $31 billion write-down for the loans it bought, representing estimated future credit losses.

The FDIC said the acquisition does not cover claims of Washington Mutual equity, senior debt and subordinated debt holders. It also said the transaction will not affect its roughly $45.2 billion deposit insurance fund.

"Jamie Dimon is clearly feeling that he has an opportunity to grab market share, and get it at fire-sale prices," said Matt McCormick, a portfolio manager at Bahl & Gaynor Investment Counsel in Cincinnati. "He's becoming an acquisition machine."

BAILOUT UNCERTAINTY

The transaction came as Washington wrangles over the fate of a $700 billion bailout of the financial services industry, which has been battered by mortgage defaults and tight credit conditions, and evaporating investor confidence.

"It removes an uncertainty from the market," said Shane Oliver, head of investment strategy at AMP Capital in Sydney. "The problem is that markets are in a jittery stage. Washington Mutual provides another reminder how tenuous things are."

Washington Mutual's collapse is the latest of a series of takeovers and outright failures that have transformed the American financial landscape and wiped out hundreds of billions of dollars of shareholder wealth.

These include the disappearance of Bear, government takeovers of mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the insurer American International Group Inc, the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc, and Bank of America's purchase of Merrill.

JPMorgan, based in New York, ended June with $1.78 trillion of assets, $722.9 billion of deposits and 3,157 branches. Washington Mutual then had 2,239 branches and 43,198 employees. It is unclear how many people will lose their jobs.

Shares of Washington Mutual plunged $1.24 to 45 cents in after-hours trading after news of a JPMorgan transaction surfaced. JPMorgan shares rose $1.04 to $44.50 after hours, but before the stock offering was announced.

119-YEAR HISTORY

The transaction ends exactly 119 years of independence for Washington Mutual, whose predecessor was incorporated on September 25, 1889, "to offer its stockholders a safe and profitable vehicle for investing and lending," according to the thrift's website. This helped Seattle residents rebuild after a fire torched the city's downtown.

It also follows more than a week of sale talks in which Washington Mutual attracted interest from several suitors.

These included Banco Santander SA, Citigroup Inc, HSBC Holdings Plc, Toronto-Dominion Bank and Wells Fargo & Co, as well as private equity firms Blackstone Group LP and Carlyle Group, people familiar with the situation said.

Less than three weeks ago, Washington Mutual ousted Chief Executive Kerry Killinger, who drove the thrift's growth as well as its expansion in subprime and other risky mortgages. It replaced him with Alan Fishman, the former chief executive of Brooklyn, New York's Independence Community Bank Corp.

WaMu's board was surprised at the seizure, and had been working on alternatives, people familiar with the matter said.

More than half of Washington Mutual's roughly $227 billion book of real estate loans was in home equity loans, and in adjustable-rate mortgages and subprime mortgages that are now considered risky.

The transaction wipes out a $1.35 billion investment by David Bonderman's private equity firm TPG Inc, the lead investor in a $7 billion capital raising by the thrift in April.

A TPG spokesman said the firm is "dissatisfied with the loss," but that the investment "represented a very small portion of our assets."

DIMON POUNCES

The deal is the latest ambitious move by Dimon.

Once a golden child at Citigroup before his mentor Sanford "Sandy" Weill engineered his ouster in 1998, Dimon has carved for himself something of a role as a Wall Street savior.

Dimon joined JPMorgan in 2004 after selling his Bank One Corp to the bank for $56.9 billion, and became chief executive at the end of 2005.

Some historians see parallels between him and the legendary financier John Pierpont Morgan, who ran J.P. Morgan & Co and was credited with intervening to end a banking panic in 1907.

JPMorgan has suffered less than many rivals from the credit crisis, but has been hurt. It said on Thursday it has already taken $3 billion to $3.5 billion of write-downs this quarter on mortgages and leveraged loans.

Washington Mutual has a major presence in California and Florida, two of the states hardest hit by the housing crisis. It also has a big presence in the New York City area. The thrift lost $6.3 billion in the nine months ended June 30.

"It is surprising that it has hung on for as long as it has," said Nancy Bush, an analyst at NAB Research LLC.

(Additional reporting by Paritosh Bansal, Christian Plumb and Dan Wilchins; Jessica Hall in Philadelphia; John Poirier in Washington, D.C. and Kevin Lim in Singapore; Editing by Gary Hill and Carol Bishopric)


Code: Select all

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080926/ts_nm/us_washingtonmutual_jpmorgan_news

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:46 am
by adorable
r we heading into another depression???

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:09 am
by ThiefzV2
very sad... out of all the banks i've used, Wells Fargo, Chase, BankofAmerica, Citi, etc..... WaMu was the best :(

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:57 pm
by ineedhelp
huh are u serious cat right now?? um all my money is in that bank LOLz
damn i gotta go take out my money soon not sure which bank to go to now

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:19 pm
by chickenfeather
Lol you don't have to take your money out... The only thing that happens for you is that you are now a Chase customer.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:18 pm
by cpinney
yeah and JP morgan just sold all the shares for 8 billion dollars :roll:

ression ftw !

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:28 pm
by mmhm3
cpinney wrote:yeah and JP morgan just sold all the shares for 8 billion dollars :roll:

ression ftw !



u mean recession right? cuz in real life u can't ressssssssssss

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:58 pm
by cpinney
mmhm3 wrote:
cpinney wrote:yeah and JP morgan just sold all the shares for 8 billion dollars :roll:

ression ftw !



u mean recession right? cuz in real life u can't ressssssssssss

i did i just cant spell and this shitty browser has no spell check :roll:

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:14 pm
by Grandpa
Ahhhh... guys? What you call "money" is paper.
Eventually toilet paper will have more value, it's softer and better suited.

Image
According to the U.S. treasury, "The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender Federal Reserve notes are 'backed' by goods and services..."

The redemption of Silver Certificates for Silver was halted back in 1964 -- same time silver was removed from coins.

~Granps

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:28 pm
by crazyskwrls
i say conspiracy!!!!

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:55 pm
by John_Doe
Thats why I'm a ninja.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:08 pm
by Barotix
Meh. As long as the Paulson and Bernanke Bailout doesn't pass it's all good. After all, what's an 18 month - 2 year recession? Better than the grueling >Decade depression that will occur if Paulson gets exactly what he wants. I mean honestly, is it really that bad to be living at your living standard for a few months instead of living above your living standard? IMO, The administration is acting like a college student that just got his credit card taken away by his parents. "But MOM, DAD! Now I can't spend money I don't have!" So people can't get loans? Who said people need that car/house now. Let the recession come.

Lehman fell: Nothing happened.
WaMu went under: No Chaos.
Other banks fail: Meh.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:09 pm
by Grandpa
'Woe to him who increases that which is not his, and who enriches himself by extortion!
ex·tor·tion
–noun
  1. an act or instance of extorting.
  2. Law. the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority.
  3. oppressive or illegal exaction, as of excessive price or interest: the extortions of usurers.
Woe to him who gets an evil gain for his house, that he may set his nest on high
    There is a generation that is pure in their own eyes, Yet are not washed from their filthiness.
    There is a generation, oh how lofty are their eyes! Their eyelids are lifted up.
    There is a generation whose teeth are like swords, And their jaws like knives, To devour the poor from the earth, and the needy from among men.

One man's reaction: "Meh"

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:34 pm
by Ramrod
Barotix wrote:Meh. As long as the Paulson and Bernanke Bailout doesn't pass it's all good. After all, what's an 18 month - 2 year recession? Better than the grueling >Decade depression that will occur if Paulson gets exactly what he wants. I mean honestly, is it really that bad to be living at your living standard for a few months instead of living above your living standard? IMO, The administration is acting like a college student that just got his credit card taken away by his parents. "But MOM, DAD! Now I can't spend money I don't have!" So people can't get loans? Who said people need that car/house now. Let the recession come.

Lehman fell: Nothing happened.
WaMu went under: No Chaos.
Other banks fail: Meh.


You sir are hilarious, and I don't mean funny.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:36 pm
by Verfo
adorable wrote:r we heading into another depression???

iam afraid so, this is worst we have been since the great depression.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:10 am
by Barotix
Ramrod wrote:
Barotix wrote:Meh. As long as the Paulson and Bernanke Bailout doesn't pass it's all good. After all, what's an 18 month - 2 year recession? Better than the grueling >Decade depression that will occur if Paulson gets exactly what he wants. I mean honestly, is it really that bad to be living at your living standard for a few months instead of living above your living standard? IMO, The administration is acting like a college student that just got his credit card taken away by his parents. "But MOM, DAD! Now I can't spend money I don't have!" So people can't get loans? Who said people need that car/house now. Let the recession come.

Lehman fell: Nothing happened.
WaMu went under: No Chaos.
Other banks fail: Meh.


You sir are hilarious, and I don't mean funny.


If there is one thing we have learned from history... it is that we don't learn from history.


@Grandpa, yeah. Austrian economics falls on death ears in this forum, so meh. There are forums/people that are ready and willing to listen to the voice of reason; not the "warnings" of fear-mongering hypocrites that have been wrong about each and every so-called "prediction" that they have made. Oh, and + effin 1.

@Verfo, it will be a recession unless Paulson and Bernanke succeed. Ask yourself why the great depression lasted for more than a decade and what it's key causes were. Don't address this issue by referring to your history textbook. Search for books.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:15 am
by Verfo
IMO, if we keep being in war with iraq, the nation will be broke soon. =/

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:28 am
by Grandpa
We need to become a nation of savers again, not debtors, and that applies to the government, companies, and individuals.

~Granps

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:23 am
by Midori
Verfo wrote:IMO, if we keep being in war with iraq, the nation will be broke soon. =/


We already are.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:35 am
by ThatBluePerson
And it all happens because the so called "democratic" America is runned by a bunch of capitalist intellectuals.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:55 pm
by The Helper
Wachovia is next. I use WAMU and they were open for business Friday. They were bought ought by Chase so normal people will not even notice. Anyone with anything not FDIC insured (over 100k) though is out.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:02 pm
by Doppleganger
Not..Good lol

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:48 pm
by Barotix
ThatBluePerson wrote:And it all happens because the so called "republic of" America is run by a bunch of socialist ignorants.


*Fixed, it wasn't capitalism and they're not intellectuals.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:01 pm
by Grandpa
ThatBluePerson wrote:And it all happens because the so called "democratic" America is runned by a bunch of capitalist intellectuals.
Barotix wrote:
ThatBluePerson wrote:And it all happens because the so called "republic of" America is run by a bunch of socialist ignorants.


*Fixed, it wasn't capitalism and they're not intellectuals.

Now enters Grandpa with a confused look on his face.Image
Questions circle within his "so called" mind.
  1. What is the difference between a "so called democracy" and a republic?
  2. If there is a difference, what does friend Barotix mean by a "so called republic"?
  3. Does friend Barotix actually think that the banks and banking systems in America are socialist?

Have the terms changed? When I was a kid the US government was termed a Democratic Republic (where the people vote for representatives). When I was a kid the term 'socialist' described a system where the community (or government) owned or controlled production of goods and services. If that were the case, JPMorgan and Chase would owe me (us) big time, right?

I may understand your objection though, it seems you are trying to properly affix blame. In order to make sense of your "fix" I have to believe what you are trying to say that it isn't the democracy (the people) who are to blame. It's like saying "How DARE YOU try to blame the victims???" You also try to address the social evil of "socialism" vs. "capitalism". But would you not agree that banks in America can hardly be called "socialist"?

You already know that I'm not a socialist, nor am I in favor of the blind "will of the people" because that is tantamount to being run by television and the media; sheep are too easily manipulated -- but just look to where the money is. Who has the biggest heap? The US government has how much debt now? How long have "we" been operating in the red? If there are trillions of "dollars" owed by our government, termed "The National Debt", who is it owed to? In other words, how can you blame socialism for the failures of perverse capitalists?

I'm open to ideas about Liberty and Freedom and enjoy discussion -- most old men are, we used to hang around the barber shops to wile the hours away for this very purpose, I grew up watching my dad actually do that and can almost quote most of his rhetoric verbatim, but to this day I still get confused by the changing definitions of terms.

~Granps

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:23 pm
by Barotix
Original post:
America is runned by a bunch of capitalist intellectuals.

When I read his post I thought (and still do) that he was referring to our representatives, not the bankers. America has grown increasingly socialist since 1929. By controlling the market and manipulating interest rates they (our representatives) caused this "crisis."
My fix:
America is run by a bunch of socialist ignorants.

So I fixed it to move blame from capitalisms to government interference.

Original post:
And it all happens because the so called "democratic" America

Once again I'm shifting blame, but this time from the people to the bureaucrats.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:36 pm
by Grandpa
Thanks, that's where I thought you were going and your explanation makes better sense now.

One of the problems with these types of discussion is that a broad understanding of politics, economy, sociology, theology (oftentimes), theories of knowledge, and language itself is oftentimes required. It's even more difficult in an open forum where people of all levels of education can enter and say anything that runs across their mind. For instance, I'm still trying to understand the basics about "Austrian Economics". It'll take me awhile, for sure.

~Granps

PS Google "EO 11110" sometime, you may find it interesting.

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:31 pm
by MrBow
It's all your own fault US. Lol. And now Europe is dealing with the trouble. That's just great!

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:47 pm
by ThiefzV2
It's the Republicans' fault.

and guess what? if we are going down, so will all of you europeans and elsewhere. history wil lrepeat itself like the Great D

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:10 am
by Stephanus
Grandpa wrote:Thanks, that's where I thought you were going and your explanation makes better sense now.

One of the problems with these types of discussion is that a broad understanding of politics, economy, sociology, theology (oftentimes), theories of knowledge, and language itself is oftentimes required. It's even more difficult in an open forum where people of all levels of education can enter and say anything that runs across their mind. For instance, I'm still trying to understand the basics about "Austrian Economics". It'll take me awhile, for sure.

~Granps

PS Google "EO 11110" sometime, you may find it interesting.


Agreed.
This is why imho discussions of religions and things like this are a bit.... hopeless to me. We have opinions but thats all. Unknowing and clueless we are in these cases. Period:)

Re: WaMu

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:53 am
by Nyx
(One Of)The problem with the entire situation is that the American Government who is bailing these banks and whatnot out is that they're just printing more money, which just depreciates the dollar.

(P.S stop comparing this to the great depression, That was caused by a monumental amount of different factors which is not occurring now. It's a recession as stated by other people in this thread.)