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What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:02 pm
by Barotix
It is a simple question. What do you believe the role of Government is in the lives of the people and are you willing to defend it (your belief)? For what purpose do you believe Government was established?
Naturally I'm inclined to post my viewpoints first, so I'll surmise it: I'm a Libertarian. An extreme one at that.
Today I will be playing Devil's Advocate ~ Let us begin.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:18 pm
by XemnasXD
The role of the gov't is to organize and uphold the beliefs and will of its subjects, to guarantee that freedom, which is every mans birthright is never taken away, and to shepherd them during times of trouble to safety. Since such a gov't doesn't exist it be hard to say what i'd be willing to do to protect it but in order to create one i'd gladly kill as many people as necessary.
thats acrude outline, if necessary i'll elaborate but i'll wait and see...
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:22 pm
by heroo
To make sure our lifes are as easy and safe as possible.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:41 pm
by Nitro
I wont even read your post, I'll give my answer straight away... Nothing.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:18 pm
by poehalcho
more censor on tv
c'mon i want some violence!
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:15 am
by Draquish
To keep control and order.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:22 am
by Verfo
so that the "Leader" or "President" doesnt have complete power over everything, also to protect rights of the citizens
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:24 am
by Reise
Basically Xem's post.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:31 am
by tedtwilliger
<--Clarification edit!-->
I'd expect given the perfection circumstances where the impossible was actually achievable.. for a government that could rid all injustice from my country and ensure each and every person meets their human rights without question. A police force to not only stop crime, but prevent it from ever occurring. Better policies to help the elderly and disabled instead of the terrible situation we currently have. A government that simply tell the situation how it is, doesn't cover it up and actually works to meet the demands of their employers, Australian citizens. Where each and every person will have equal rights and treatment no matter what age, race, gender or even wealth status.
Defending my idea? In the context of war no i would not. Being against violence thats not my boat to play in. As far as standing up for my belief, sure. Why else would i believe it? >_>
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:59 am
by nohunta
Basically the Opposite of communism,dicatarships,and monarchies.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:08 am
by XemnasXD
nohunta wrote:Basically the Opposite of communism,dicatarships,and monarchies.
a benevolent dictatorship would be a near perfect gov't. A single strong authority figure capable of enforcing the law and doing what is best for the people regardless of biases created my money or politics. No corrupt politicians the best possible lifestyle for everyone. Whats not to like about that.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:47 am
by Blindfire
Reise wrote:Basically Xem's post.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:21 am
by dom
To tax hard working people so I can get a cheque each month for staying at home.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:35 am
by XemnasXD
dom wrote:To tax hard working people so I can get a cheque each month for staying at home.
welfare?
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:48 am
by MrPharmacist
It is very late where i live!
I have enjoyed reading through your reply's to this thead!
But i have to say that some of you are talking out your arse!...sad to say!
i will give a more detailed response tomorrow.
I am very drunk tonight and probably won't make any sense.
bb for now.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:15 am
by Snoopy
I believe that a Government should establish and maintain freedom in their country. They shouldn't just think about power and money, but think about their citizens, and the needs of their citizens. To build and keep control of a sustainable environment and most of all, EQUALITY!
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:18 am
by tedtwilliger
Snoopy wrote:I believe that a Government should establish and maintain freedom in their country. They shouldn't just think about power and money, but think about their citizens, and the needs of their citizens. To build and keep control of a sustainable environment and most of all, EQUALITY!
Snoopy wrote:Well, I like to go to this park near my house and get absolutely smashed with a group of my friends. Then we start tripping and shit, we walk over to McDonalds and walk through the drivethru and order a bunch of shit and either run off or don't pay.
Because your helping to achieve that, right?
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:22 am
by XemnasXD
tedtwilliger wrote:Snoopy wrote:I believe that a Government should establish and maintain freedom in their country. They shouldn't just think about power and money, but think about their citizens, and the needs of their citizens. To build and keep control of a sustainable environment and most of all, EQUALITY!
Snoopy wrote:Well, I like to go to this park near my house and get absolutely smashed with a group of my friends. Then we start tripping and shit, we walk over to McDonalds and walk through the drivethru and order a bunch of shit and either run off or don't pay.
Because your helping to achieve that, right?
lols
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:24 am
by Snoopy
tedtwilliger wrote:Snoopy wrote:I believe that a Government should establish and maintain freedom in their country. They shouldn't just think about power and money, but think about their citizens, and the needs of their citizens. To build and keep control of a sustainable environment and most of all, EQUALITY!
Snoopy wrote:Well, I like to go to this park near my house and get absolutely smashed with a group of my friends. Then we start tripping and shit, we walk over to McDonalds and walk through the drivethru and order a bunch of shit and either run off or don't pay.
Because your helping to achieve that, right?
I'm:
A. Not the government.
B. I put my rubbish in the trash, thus making a sustainable environment.
C. Parks are made to be used, and that's what I'm doing. Why shouldn't I be able to use what people are taxed for?
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:54 am
by l05tfr33k7
Snoopy wrote:
I'm:
A. Not the government.
So people, who make the govt, can "think about power and money", but the government cant? Hypocrisy?
C. Parks are made to be used, and that's what I'm doing. Why shouldn't I be able to use what people are taxed for?
Last time i remember, parks werent made to "start tripping" in. I believe minors go there. Way to make a good environment and community eh?
Right...
Ted pwned you.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:58 am
by Barotix
Not the government.
All governments, instituted among men, derive their power from the governed; therefore, without the consent of the governed there would be no government.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:09 am
by Snoopy
l05tfr33k7 wrote:Snoopy wrote:
I'm:
A. Not the government.
So people, who make the govt, can "think about power and money", but the government cant? Hypocrisy?
C. Parks are made to be used, and that's what I'm doing. Why shouldn't I be able to use what people are taxed for?
Last time i remember, parks werent made to "start tripping" in. I believe minors go there. Way to make a good environment and community eh?
Right...
Ted pwned you.
I probably didn't word the money thing right. What I meant to say is, a government shouldn't think about money as its number one priority, nor power, citizens and the people should come first, and therefore equality is achieved.
You're saying that basically I'm pretending to stand for a belief that I myself don't have?
"A park is a piece of open land for recreational use in an urban area" To my understanding, parks can be used by anyone, I'm one of those anyone and if I want to have fun with my mates, and illegally drink in public, that's my choice to make not yours. Sure I may be in the wrong area, though it's not like I'm wrecking the park because I wasn't littering, I wasn't trashing the park. I was simply getting drunk in it before moving on.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:15 am
by Grandpa
Gerontocracy, and no - I'm too old to fight.
Just kidding, but it would be better than the current thinly veiled plutocracy.
I wouldn't mind discussing this with you Barotix and imagine that my true beliefs are similar to yours. Minimalist governmental interference to the individual seems a good thing, the only problem that I'd anticipate with a true libertarian arrangement is that it requires too much nobility on the part of the individual and is almost naive regarding the nature of mankind.
Consider the control needed for example in keeping such a simple thing like this forum healthy under the minimal rules there are here.
~Granps
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:20 am
by Snoopy
Grandpa wrote:Gerontocracy, and no - I'm too old to fight.
Just kidding, but it would be better than the current thinly veiled plutocracy.
In Australia it seems to be run by a Gerontocracy. Plutocracy is what it's like in UAE and countrys like them yea? Rule by wealth?
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:21 am
by XemnasXD
learned 2 new words thanks to you gramp Gerontocracy and to understand that Oligarchy
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:59 am
by TOloseGT
yup, we're a plutocracy
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:09 am
by woutR
Easy life man.
Why do I have to work hard when other people have money?!
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:11 pm
by Stress
Our country has rid itself of communism twenty years ago. We're still not doing well. We're supposed to be a market economy, but our economy hasn't noticed any progress for the last two or three years. Even though the statistics state that the economy of Romania has grown by 7-8%, the population does not feel it. Most of us still live in the same way.
I can't talk about myself here, because I actually fare very well. In a country where the average salary is of 350$, my parents earn 2500$+ each. But many people don't have such an easy times. Imagine this type of salary, and think of the fact that our prices are lined up with those of the European Union, but our income isn't half as good as theirs.
Corruption is a major problem, the solution to that is not immediate and not easy. We need to rid ourselves of the generation of communists, who suddenly turned into die-hard democrats. The hypocrisy in our political system is of immense proportions. We need much better management of certain economic areas. That's what I expect from my Government. However, as long as the same rotten communists lead the Government, I wouldn't want them interfering with my life (or buisness) in any way. Should there be, competent people, though, things would probably change.
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:09 pm
by Grandpa
I'm not prepared for this conversation because I had zero political interest when I was young. Mostly because of my jaded views of people in control - to me anybody who wanted control of others wanted it for one reason only - their failure, their abject failure - at self-control.
But now shall we think about change?
Instead of describing (in general terms) what changes we would like to see or what government style we advocate, shall we (for the purpose of discussion) consider the consequence of one (1) change?
What would happen if somehow collecting information about the citizenry was absolutely prohibited. What if governments were no longer allowed to track or record our personal information (except for criminal actions of course)? Can you imagine? John Lennon's song "Imagine" what the world would be like if there were no religion might have to be rewritten. For instance, if the insidious, pernicious, hypocritical act of record keeping regarding individuals by the government was revoked... What if the only records that the government could collect, no, not "could" but by law must collect were records of their own actions? What if all actions, all phone calls, all meetings, all decisions and all parts of the governmental process itself were to be made public? Where other than for those who hold public office individual privacy rights were upheld AND enforced?
To discuss radical change, one must first be prepared to understand what change is. My jaded view is that real change is sadly impossible. This concept has had only about 3 minutes of thought before I posted it but for instance, without the ability to record wage information, taxes would be become gifts of appreciation, wouldn't they? It's not a serious proposal. I'm trying to stimulate thought about Barotix's idea: what types of authorities do we want over us?
~Granps
Re: What do you expect from your Government.
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:19 pm
by __dRe
i want them to FINALLY form a goverment >.<
politics of belgium sucks...:/