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Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:12 am
by The Joker
After discussing and learning about the Chaos Theory (thank you Grandpa), I now present to you the Theory of Relativity.

This is the Special Relativity Theory. I actually had to study this one for school, and no word is lied when I say to you that this theory is one of the most interesting I've ever read and/or studied.


For those that don't know anything or know a little about this subject:

Spoiler!


For those that know more about this subject:
Spoiler!



According to this theory you could travel 40 years in space, then come back to earth and see the world as it is 80,000 years after you left.

/Discuss


* And please try to keep this thread flame free. If you don't like me and/or don't like this thread, I friendly ask you to leave.*
Thanks, The Joker

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:17 am
by Nitro
I'm sorry to interfere like this , its 2 am and I'm tired ... I started reading and Italic text killed me... Sorry I'll read it tommorow ...
But it would be nice if you removed Italic ... I just turned it off when I started to read.

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:22 am
by The Joker
Already fixed. You now can click the original links if you would like to.

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:24 am
by Inuyasha584
hmm 80,000 years huh..

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:34 am
by crazyskwrls
where is that time machine video now... let me find it brb

found it, it disucss about time travel which from my understanding is kind realted to theory of relativity
Code: Select all

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:35 am
by Jstar1
interesting read. although you sure make us high school students feel dumb

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:44 am
by The Joker
The only way you truly can be dumb is to believe it and to accept it, rather than to go in search of knowledge and to:

- obtain it;
- understand it;
- use it.

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:48 am
by Burningwolf
Jstar1 wrote:interesting read. although you sure make us high school students feel dumb

:( :cry: :(

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:53 am
by dom
I just finished reading The Universe in a Nutshell by Stephen Hawking.

In highschool I was lazy, but I had a good mouth and way with words - it landed me a spot in the social sciences/humanities side of studies and I never took any science courses beyond what was required by the ministry. My program requires me to take a couple biology-like courses for my degree, and i've been poking around in other fields of science out of interest.

I must say that i'm in absolute love with physics, and I regret not working harder and becoming a theoretical physicist.

When I was younger, and willing to work hard, my favorite subject was math. I should of stuck to that.

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:28 am
by nitrofreez
One of the most interesting theories deriving from Special Relativity, in my opinion, is the Twin Paradox. It states that if one of the twins were to go into space and accelerate to a speed closer to c (the speed of light), upon return he would have aged less than the other.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the twin doing the traveling be the one to appear older, if not in age then at least in appearance? I mean if you were to merge this with biology, then you bring into account the telomeres, which are a region of DNA at the end of a chromosome. It is the deterioration of these telomeres that cause the process of aging. One thing that leads to their deterioration is the collisions against cosmic rays which continually pass through our bodies.

So, taking this into account, wouldn't a person traveling at such immense speeds have an increased amount of cosmic rays passing through their bodies, thus accelerating the deterioration of telomeres, which in turn would cause them to age that much faster?

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:59 am
by dom
nitrofreez wrote:One of the most interesting theories deriving from Special Relativity, in my opinion, is the Twin Paradox. It states that if one of the twins were to go into space and accelerate to a speed closer to c (the speed of light), upon return he would have aged less than the other.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the twin doing the traveling be the one to appear older, if not in age then at least in appearance? I mean if you were to merge this with biology, then you bring into account the telomeres, which are a region of DNA at the end of a chromosome. It is the deterioration of these telomeres that cause the process of aging. One thing that leads to their deterioration is the collisions against cosmic rays which continually pass through our bodies.

So, taking this into account, wouldn't a person traveling at such immense speeds have an increased amount of cosmic rays passing through their bodies, thus accelerating the deterioration of telomeres, which in turn would cause them to age that much faster?


The aging in the theory is there because of time's relativity, and sensitivity to speed. He comes back younger because at the speed he was travelling. The deterioration of DNA is not true aging, it's artificial in the sense that it has been altered by unnatural means. Coming back younger because of time's sensitivity is not artificial, because the actual amount of time passed is less.

So, the twin coming back from space would be younger. His DNA might be altered, and his physiology changed, but he still has been around for less time then his twin on earth.

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:52 am
by Advancechao
That's really some interesting information there.

I heard the Relativity theory explained in a really simple way before, but I can't remember where I heard it from. It stated that all objects move through the 4th dimensional space-time at the speed of light when motionless. When you stand completely still you are moving at that constant rate through time.

Whenever you move, as in walking, driving a car, or orbiting the Earth, you convert your speed through time into speed through physical space; in essence, it is a trade-off. Whenever you move, you take a bit of your motion through time and place it into motion through space, so time passes a little bit slower for you. It happens with GPS satellites, whose measurements are thrown completely out of whack by relativistic forces while speeding around the Earth and therefore need to be constantly adjusted to keep up with the changes.

If a human approaches light speed, everything not traveling at the same rate would speed up, so you come back after what seems like 40 years of travel to you, but 80,000 passed for everybody else like Joker said. But the human would still die eventually, obviously. He/she could live eighty years on the light-speed ship and die of old age while the outside world zips by unnoticed. So time doesn't mean much, huh?

I read the Ender's Game trilogy and thought about how they kept people alive on lightspeed ships. Really interesting stuff.

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:50 am
by TOloseGT
i read a sci fi book by stephen baxter called Ring a couple of weeks ago. the theory of relativity was practiced in that book. the spaceship travelled close to the speed of light for 1000 yrs, and 10 million years passed for the rest of the universe.

o.o

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:33 am
by Priam
Very interesting read, thanks. I'll be off finding more info.

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:23 pm
by whiteraven
next step:

expain me why:

if the world would turn clockwise (or counter clockwise,, opposite of what its doing now xD)
howcome time would go the opposite direction to?? (that is what my teacher said to me)

and

well if in outerspace time runs slower,, will digging into the earth make time go faster? (that would be the opposite....)

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:10 pm
by boast
Jstar1 wrote:interesting read. although you sure make us high school students feel dumb


lol. then make sure you dont go to physicsforums.com

highschool kids taking calc 3 and quantum mechanics. :cry:

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:17 pm
by crazyskwrls
:roll: that forum needs an offtopic section where i can post to rake up my postcounts so i can look intelligent :twisted:

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:05 pm
by heroo
whiteraven wrote:
well if in outerspace time runs slower,, will digging into the earth make time go faster? (that would be the opposite....)



no you won't. It's not the higher you go, the slower time goes. It depends on your speed. The fact time goes slower in space is because we can reach higher speeds in space, that's because space is vacuum.

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:05 pm
by NuclearSilo
Wait, wait, here, i dont Farking care about 40 years in space = 80k years in earth. 1 year is 1 year unless u dont compare the time with the same reference: the Sun. Your body may lives slower or your clock is broken and doesnt work properly.

(I heard that)There are also ppl who sleep for 50-60 after got an accident. When they wake up, they are not older, it's just like 1 night of sleeping for them. Call that also a time machine, and it's the opposite of high speed.

Chinese myth also tell that there was a monkey king which transform into a rock and sleep for trousands years.

Btw, there is a vietnamese prophet who could predict things both in future and in past. It means that we exist in different dimention of time and space. A ghost that i have spoken to through the Ouija board can predict the future too.

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:34 pm
by Grandpa
Without Relativity, probable fictions such as Big Bang cosmology and "black holes" can't exist - if there is no space-time, only time and space, then there is no possibility of expanding space and time from a singularity at the "beginning of time".

Strange world we live in, isn't it?

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:43 pm
by dom
NuclearSilo wrote:Wait, wait, here, i dont Farking care about 40 years in space = 80k years in earth. 1 year is 1 year unless u dont compare the time with the same reference: the Sun. Your body may lives slower or your clock is broken and doesnt work properly.



No. And that's why a lot of people have problems grasping the concepts of relativity.

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:02 pm
by whiteraven
Grandpa wrote:Without Relativity, probable fictions such as Big Bang cosmology and "black holes" can't exist - if there is no space-time, only time and space, then there is no possibility of expanding space and time from a singularity at the "beginning of time".

Strange world we live in, isn't it?



damnit,,

2 options

first: einstein is right but who made the world? god? well damn,, im going to prey every day from now on :O

second: einstein isnt right and time and space stuff is bullshit,,



well i can make time running faster :P just do something you like and time flows xD and time can run slower,, when ur at work :(

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:14 pm
by Grandpa
The idea of absolute right or wrong is the thing.
We'd like to live in a world where we can understand things in absolute terms and right is right and wrong is wrong. Fact is, we don't.

Consider early Flat Earth. At the time, it was 'right' to think so. It was so obvious - just look around. Then somebody noticed the length of the shadow cast from a stick varied depending on where it was measured - even if it was the same time of the day. So it was reasoned the the earth was a perfect sphere. Telescopes weren't that good but it seemed obvious - just look at the moon and the sun - spheres, right?

Then men started looking at Saturn and Jupiter and noticed they were fatter at their center and elliptical in shape. Turns out that the earth is not a perfect sphere. There were thousands of years where it was 'right' to think that the heavens were formed of various spheres but then came studies about distance and comets. A new 'right' was being determined.

When I call something a 'probable fiction' it isn't to say that the thought is untrue, only to say that our concepts of absolute right or wrong are. It's a matter of degree. Perhaps it could be said that relative to our knowledge at this time it is more right than prior theories.

~Granps

Re: Theory of Relativity

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:49 pm
by heroo
whiteraven wrote:
Grandpa wrote:Without Relativity, probable fictions such as Big Bang cosmology and "black holes" can't exist - if there is no space-time, only time and space, then there is no possibility of expanding space and time from a singularity at the "beginning of time".

Strange world we live in, isn't it?



damnit,,

2 options

first: einstein is right but who made the world? god? well damn,, im going to prey every day from now on :O

second: einstein isnt right and time and space stuff is bullshit,,



well i can make time running faster :P just do something you like and time flows xD and time can run slower,, when ur at work :(


It was tested many tmes. The results were always positive i believe.