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I've got a debate coming up and any examples, arguments etc you could share would be appreciated I'm on the affirmative side btw.

breadwinners?

Means they bring home the money/food etc. I'm totally against that tho, I think women should do that (so I can stay at home and watch the kids / do fuck all / etc etc).

I believe in a marriage of equals.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the time of man working for food/shelter/money/random things has passed.

Yay for emancipation of the woman. It leads to less working myself.

Both should work. I will understand if man will be the breadwinner of the family but the wife? Lazy ass. You don't deserve to get married.

mahumps wrote:Both should work. I will understand if man will be the breadwinner of the family but the wife? Lazy ass. You don't deserve to get married.

Are you discriminating me? So much for equality lol

LOL you're wife is the breadwinner?

mahumps wrote:LOL you're wife is the breadwinner?

I don't have a wife, but why wouldn't I want her to be one? I think op needs arguments for the subject, not a discussion..

iGod wrote:

mahumps wrote:LOL you're wife is the breadwinner?

I don't have a wife, but why wouldn't I want her to be one? I think op needs arguments for the subject, not a discussion..

I'm sure he does, but he wants arguments in favor of the discussion point, and everybody here seems to be against it.

men are basically a penis attached to a body, thats their only real use. Anything they can do women could probably do more efficiently, whatever they lack in physical strength could be made up for with intelligence and cooperation. That being said a mans traditional role in the home could easily be taken on by a woman especially with more equal work opportunities nowadays. The only reason why it hasn't taken over earlier is because men tried so hard to keep women out of the workplace.

Oh c'mon, thinking that men shoul still be bringing in the whole lot of money is ve, and i mean very, old fashioned.

X-Lax wrote:breadwinners?

You have no idea how much that made me laugh inside. The younger mind speaks..

I believe that whomever wears the pants in the relationship should bring home the most dough.



Notice my wording.

Note: I'm against it and believe the only time the male should be the sole proprietor is when he brings in enough money to provide for his family and still has enough left over for simple luxuries. Then and only then is it unnecessary for the female to work.

But, here's a nice piece of text I just typed:

"I believe that two working family members undermines the structure of the Family unit, reducing the amount of care and nourishment put into bringing up children. The femal, naturally; is the loving sex. It makes far more sense for the female to stay at home and rear the children, yes it sounds sexist, but think of the children. Look at the change in values and look at the correlations, the blaring lack of care, moral, and human decency. Where are the mothers? Working, where are the fathers? Working OR inexistent. If the male is sufficient, I believe the wife should be allowed to stay home. It has been noted that 'stay at home fathers' die earlier than those who work."

i think we should exploit child labor and make kids work....

it should be equal.

State that the definition of a breadwinner is the person in the relationship that makes a larger salary. Show some data on how males on average get payed higher salaries than women in the same position. Draw the conclusion that if it takes the same amount of effort for a man to get in the same position as a woman(which is totally not as fun as it sounds) and make more money, it is logical and pragmatic for the man to be the 'breadwinner', by definition(which you provided). Prepare for counter arguments that go into sentimental crap with your own arguments on practicality and you got yourself a five minute case.

What I'm more interested in is why you have a debate coming up during summer vacation.

SM-Count wrote:State that the definition of a breadwinner is the person in the relationship that makes a larger salary. Show some data on how males on average get payed higher salaries than women in the same position. Draw the conclusion that if it takes the same amount of effort for a man to get in the same position as a woman(which is totally not as fun as it sounds) and make more money, it is logical and pragmatic for the man to be the 'breadwinner', by definition(which you provided). Prepare for counter arguments that go into sentimental crap with your own arguments on practicality and you got yourself a five minute case.

What I'm more interested in is why you have a debate coming up during summer vacation.

School is starting for some people. Might be a summer assignment, so on the first day; BAM! Debate time. School starts on Monday for me. I prefer fighting emotion with emotion because in a High School setting, when you're trying to win over classmates, logic tends to fail.

Barotix wrote:

SM-Count wrote:State that the definition of a breadwinner is the person in the relationship that makes a larger salary. Show some data on how males on average get payed higher salaries than women in the same position. Draw the conclusion that if it takes the same amount of effort for a man to get in the same position as a woman(which is totally not as fun as it sounds) and make more money, it is logical and pragmatic for the man to be the 'breadwinner', by definition(which you provided). Prepare for counter arguments that go into sentimental crap with your own arguments on practicality and you got yourself a five minute case.

What I'm more interested in is why you have a debate coming up during summer vacation.

School is starting for some people. Might be a summer assignment, so on the first day; BAM! Debate time. School starts on Monday for me.

First full week of August is extremely early for school to start, I don't start until the last week of August.

I think women should stay at home at least until the child can stay home by himself/herself. The children need a caring person to help them grow. If there isn't any attention paid to your children, then you get bullies, brats, and nimrods. Its really hard for a child to grow as a good person unless there is someone by their side to watch them and give advice to them.

So yeah, women should stay at home until a kid can stay out of trouble when he/she is home alone.

Why are all of you assuming that the couple has a child?

Draquish wrote:Why are all of you assuming that the couple has a child?

Why are you making a generalization witout reading all the posts?

You got me.


*goes into lurk mode*

i didnt know it was still posible for only one of the people in the marriage to go to work and the other stays home. my mom works like 6 hrs a day and we get money from my grama's retirement, and we still need welfare and shit just to buy food idk how it is where u guys live

thanks for all the replys and so far I've got

1. sports: men get paid more even if the female works just as hard in training and reach the same level. prize money for tennis pays more or equal to males.

2. tradition: males have been doing the majority of the work since the beginning. it would be naive to think you can change that without consequences. cavemen hunting etc

3. rich list: male dominated

4. egos : rarely will you find a man willing to stay at home and look after the kids. demeaning, no satisfaction etc

this is just a really short run down and I'm open to all opinions and yes being sexist is unavoidable.

just2100 wrote:thanks for all the replys and so far I've got

1. sports: men get paid more even if the female works just as hard in training and reach the same level. prize money for tennis pays more or equal to males.

2. tradition: males have been doing the majority of the work since the beginning. it would be naive to think you can change that without consequences. cavemen hunting etc

3. rich list: male dominated

4. egos : rarely will you find a man willing to stay at home and look after the kids. demeaning, no satisfaction etc

this is just a really short run down and I'm open to all opinions and yes being sexist is unavoidable.

for number 1, male get paid more because they play better and when they play its more interesting. Female might work as hard as the male ahtletes, but they will never get to our level. thats why no1 cares about women soccer and basketball, some nubs care about female basketball but i watched it and it is so godam boring. Also u dont ever see female playing profesional soccer in america anymore, thats cuz no1 watched it so they dont show it anymore.

ps im not sexist

Of the two obvious options, I'd choose Option C and suggest that you avoid the stereotypical arguments (especially where they are sexist) and stress that we have been conditioned to think in terms of "Domestic" (work performed in the home) vs. "Labor" (work performed outside the home for wage). This stereotypical and artificial labeling and categorization of male and female roles is a major contributor to divorce - the ultimate failure of the union. It also makes an intelligent discussion of who the breadwinner 'should' be impossible.

Though married women have steadily increased their labor force activity, most continue to do the bulk of the housework or domestic chores as well. Without a wife who specializes in homemaking, married couples must balance the responsibilities for such tasks in new ways; husbands have assumed greater responsibility for routine housework. My premise is that 'women's work' itself endangers marriages, regardless of which spouse does it. Greater involvement in traditionally female housework by either partner can easily be associated with higher chances of divorce or separation. In other words, our concepts of 'fairness' are skewed by our lack of appreciation for Fathers.

Consider the primary duty of the parents in a family: raising healthy children. In an environment where love and mutual respect is the norm providing real life healthy examples as role models to our children becomes natural. This simply cannot be accomplished by constant arguments and friction stemming from 'traditional' thinking regarding 'woman's work'. The 'Division of Labor' and 'Gender Role' studies that are abundantly found when searching this topic all disregard one thing.

FATHERS:

Respect your Children's Mother
Spend Time with your Children
Earn the Right to be Heard
Discipline with Love
Be a Role Model
Be a Teacher
Eat Together as a Family
Read to your Children
Show Affection
Realize that a Father's Job is Never Done

Instead of attempting to determine who should be the leader in our worship of money, parents with healthy intentions toward their children must relearn appreciation of the vital role of Fatherhood and go from there. It seems that we are always fighting for 'our rights'. Love flows outward, not inward. Perhaps we should (as partners) begin to fight for someone else's rights: the children, the elderly, the poor. I believe that positive goals and accomplishments within a marriage will help to form real and lasting relationships and focusing on outward moving love is needed here more than money.

See under Spoiler for Avoiding the Bandwagon Fallacy:


~Granps

just2100 wrote:2. tradition: males have been doing the majority of the work since the beginning. it would be naive to think you can change that without consequences. cavemen hunting etc

There's one small problem about the cavemen hunting thing.

During the cavemen age, the woman provided most of the food and not men. Bringing down large animals was a dangerous task that often failed. Gathering roots and berries, a woman's job, was needed because you couldn't count on a successful hunt every time. Thus the woman made sure that a tribe had food, while men only got some extra's if they were lucky enough.

Women have breasts and functioning nipples. They take care of children, it's a natural role. The division of labor and domestic duties is not natural, it's done in a way that makes it easiest for the family. When a mother is at home taking care of children, it's easier for her to take care of domestic duties as well.

These days, a woman can work and pay another person to be an artificial mother, to take her natural role. I'm against this in the first years of life of a baby, and although I would support my wife's choice to want to have a career, I would suggest she stays home with the kids for the first couple years (until the child starts school) then persue whatever's most important to her.

takolin wrote:

just2100 wrote:2. tradition: males have been doing the majority of the work since the beginning. it would be naive to think you can change that without consequences. cavemen hunting etc

There's one small problem about the cavemen hunting thing.

During the cavemen age, the woman provided most of the food and not men. Bringing down large animals was a dangerous task that often failed. Gathering roots and berries, a woman's job, was needed because you couldn't count on a successful hunt every time. Thus the woman made sure that a tribe had food, while men only got some extra's if they were lucky enough.

Interesting point there, my friend.

The role of providing food can be seen even today - Women are involved in every area of food production even in this day and age - there are studies that link our conditioned and learned roles to such things. I've read studies that basically state the roles should be determined not by 'who does what better' but instead 'who performs the alternative functions the worst'. In other words we shouldn't consider who is the best breadwinner but instead who sucks the least at raising kids. Men need to perform traditional 'male' duties because we'd all die if they were charged with raising kids.

@dom Mmmmm... breasts. Wait, what was I saying

~Gramps